XSF Discussion - 2017-03-14

  1. Holger has left

  2. Guus has left

  3. Guus has left

  4. Mancho has left

  5. jere has joined

  6. vurpo has left

  7. vurpo has joined

  8. vurpo has left

  9. vurpo has joined

  10. vurpo has left

  11. vurpo has joined

  12. jere has left

  13. jere has joined

  14. kaboom has left

  15. kaboom has left

  16. Tobias has left

  17. kaboom has left

  18. kaboom has left

  19. kaboom has left

  20. kaboom has left

  21. kaboom has left

  22. kaboom has left

  23. narcode has joined

  24. kaboom has left

  25. kaboom has left

  26. kaboom has left

  27. kaboom has left

  28. kaboom has left

  29. kaboom has left

  30. Guus has left

  31. Tobias has left

  32. Alex has joined

  33. Guus has left

  34. nyco has joined

  35. nicolas.verite has joined

  36. nicolas.verite has left

  37. Tobias has left

  38. Ge0rG has left

  39. jere has left

  40. arc has left

  41. arc has joined

  42. Alex has left

  43. jere has joined

  44. jere has left

  45. Zash has left

  46. Kev has left

  47. Mancho has joined

  48. ralphm has left

  49. kalkin has left

  50. SamWhited has left

  51. Valerian has joined

  52. Ge0rG has left

  53. rion has joined

  54. xnyhps has left

  55. xnyhps has left

  56. xnyhps has left

  57. nyco has joined

  58. xnyhps has left

  59. nicolas.verite has joined

  60. ralphm has left

  61. Guus has left

  62. Guus has left

  63. Valerian has left

  64. nicolas.verite has left

  65. nicolas.verite has joined

  66. intosi has joined

  67. Guus has left

  68. nicolas.verite has left

  69. nicolas.verite has joined

  70. nicolas.verite has left

  71. kalkin has left

  72. winfried has joined

  73. winfried has joined

  74. rion has left

  75. Guus has left

  76. nicolas.verite has joined

  77. nicolas.verite has left

  78. nicolas.verite has joined

  79. intosi has left

  80. nyco

    efrit: a Slashdot "debate" is taking place around this, and the failure of XMPP

  81. nyco has left

  82. nicolas.verite has left

  83. intosi has joined

  84. suzyo has joined

  85. nicolas.verite has joined

  86. nicolas.verite has left

  87. nyco has joined

  88. intosi has left

  89. winfried has left

  90. winfried has joined

  91. Flow has joined

  92. ralphm has left

  93. nyco has joined

  94. Zash

    Slashdot still exists?

  95. lloydwatkin has left

  96. nicolas.verite has joined

  97. blipp has left

  98. blipp has joined

  99. kalkin has left

  100. nyco has joined

  101. sezuan has left

  102. Flow has left

  103. rion has joined

  104. efrit has joined

  105. Guus has left

  106. Guus has left

  107. Ge0rG

    And it's full of dumb trolls. Nothing changed in the last 15 years

  108. Guus has left

  109. nyco has joined

  110. intosi has joined

  111. Tobias has joined

  112. Tobias has joined

  113. ralphm

    I Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you.

  114. ralphm

    In Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you.

  115. uc

    Ge0rG: or paid trolls? I will not be surprised if it's some company's PR marketing

  116. Tobias has joined

  117. Zash

    Fake news regarding our demise?

  118. uc

    Aand someone linked to this https://m.imgur.com/nfivrKQ?r

  119. jonasw

    as I said, someone needs to create a client which comes bundled with an XMPP server and hand-picked and automatically set up transports.

  120. Zash

    Do it, then talk about it.

  121. jonasw

    Zash: it’s on my todo actually. at least IRC, because I have usecases for that myself. Prosody would be the bundled server ;-)

  122. rion

    I believe libtransport is designed almost for this.

  123. jonasw

    is that spectrum?

  124. rion


  125. Zash

    uc: that was the original purpose of jabber, back in the day, to unite all different chat systems using bridges

  126. jonasw

    my experience with spectrum is unfortunately rather bad

  127. Ge0rG

    uc: I really can't imagine a company being dumb enough to pay for /. propaganda.

  128. Ge0rG

    uc: OTOH, marketing is usually led by a huge amount of heroine, so who knows.

  129. Ge0rG

    doesn't spectrum also bundle libpurple?

  130. Ge0rG

    I still have nightmares about exposing an internet service that's linked against libpurple.

  131. jonasw

    it depends on it, yes.

  132. uc

    Ge0rG: but are trying reinvent the wheel lol

  133. jonasw

    I think the multiline makes your client QUIT :with a nice message issue was also due to libpurple. Or maybe that was libcommuni and libpurple just had the /quit on the first line to quit your client with a nice message

  134. jonasw


  135. pep. has joined

  136. Zash

    Does it still depend on gtk & co?

  137. jonasw

    but no point in bashing projects which at least try to do something better. especially if I haven’t taken the time to look into that multi-line thing

  138. efrit has joined

  139. Flow has joined

  140. jubalh has joined

  141. Laura has joined

  142. Tobias has left

  143. Valerian has joined

  144. Tobias has left

  145. uc has left

  146. uc has joined

  147. Tobias has left

  148. Martin has joined

  149. arc has left

  150. arc has joined

  151. Steve Kille has left

  152. Steve Kille has left

  153. Steve Kille has joined

  154. goffi has joined

  155. daniel has left

  156. daniel has joined

  157. daniel has left

  158. daniel has joined

  159. Laura has left

  160. Mancho has left

  161. vurpo has left

  162. vurpo has joined

  163. Guus

    So, psa is stepping down. Now what?

  164. Mancho has left

  165. Kev

    Board choose a new ED. That's about it :)

  166. nicolas.verite has left

  167. mhterres has joined

  168. Ge0rG

    what's the job of the ED?

  169. devnull has left

  170. devnull has joined

  171. devnull has left

  172. devnull has joined

  173. suzyo has left

  174. suzyo has joined

  175. Mancho has joined

  176. vurpo has left

  177. vurpo has joined

  178. nicolas.verite has joined

  179. nicolas.verite has left

  180. Guus

    (what he asked)

  181. dwd

    "Get stuff done". More or less.

  182. dwd

    Bylaws, section 6.6 has the details, but the ED's job is to ensure that the Board's resolutions are carried out, and signs any contracts.

  183. Guus has left

  184. uc has left

  185. uc has joined

  186. waqas has joined

  187. daniel has left

  188. daniel has joined

  189. suzyo has left

  190. suzyo has joined

  191. daniel has left

  192. daniel has joined

  193. kaboom has joined

  194. nicolas.verite has joined

  195. nicolas.verite has left

  196. suzyo has joined

  197. waqas has left

  198. kalkin has left

  199. jonasw has left

  200. jere has joined

  201. jere has left

  202. jere has joined

  203. vurpo has left

  204. vurpo has joined

  205. jere has left

  206. jere has joined

  207. kaboom has joined

  208. kaboom has joined

  209. vurpo has left

  210. vurpo has joined

  211. vurpo has left

  212. vurpo has joined

  213. vurpo has left

  214. vurpo has joined

  215. kaboom has left

  216. vurpo has left

  217. vurpo has joined

  218. vurpo has left

  219. vurpo has joined

  220. vurpo has left

  221. vurpo has joined

  222. vurpo has left

  223. vurpo has joined

  224. vurpo has left

  225. vurpo has joined

  226. vurpo has left

  227. nicolas.verite has joined

  228. vurpo has joined

  229. vurpo has left

  230. kaboom has left

  231. vurpo has joined

  232. vurpo has left

  233. vurpo has joined

  234. nyco has joined

  235. mhterres has left

  236. vurpo has left

  237. sonny has joined

  238. vurpo has joined

  239. Alex has joined

  240. vurpo has left

  241. nicolas.verite has left

  242. vurpo has joined

  243. Ge0rG

    so, what's the consensus of yesterday's "how much do we trust a remote MUC" debate?

  244. vurpo has left

  245. sonny has joined

  246. nyco has joined

  247. Valerian has left

  248. vurpo has joined

  249. vurpo has left

  250. vurpo has joined

  251. vurpo has left

  252. arc has left

  253. nyco has joined

  254. Ge0rG just had a really weird moment. Sitting in a regional train, I see an ad on the built-in display... "no ads... good battery use... the app for whistleblowers". Turned out to be a review of OWS' Signal by some smartphone news portal.

  255. Ge0rG

    At least I hope so. The alternative would be moxie haunting me.

  256. Tobias has left

  257. nicolas.verite has joined

  258. nicolas.verite has left

  259. vurpo has joined

  260. vurpo has left

  261. vurpo has joined

  262. nyco has joined

  263. kaboom has left

  264. kaboom has left

  265. goffi has left

  266. Kev has left

  267. kaboom has left

  268. kaboom has left

  269. Mancho has left

  270. Yagiza has joined

  271. vurpo has left

  272. vurpo has joined

  273. jere has joined

  274. kaboom has left

  275. kaboom has left

  276. Valerian has joined

  277. kaboom has left

  278. kaboom has left

  279. kalkin has left

  280. nicolas.verite has joined

  281. nyco has joined

  282. kaboom has left

  283. Ge0rG has joined

  284. nyco has joined

  285. edhelas has joined

  286. kaboom has left

  287. Mancho has left

  288. nyco has joined

  289. nicolas.verite has left

  290. nyco has joined

  291. Valerian has left

  292. waqas has joined

  293. nicolas.verite has joined

  294. vurpo has left

  295. vurpo has joined

  296. vurpo has left

  297. jere has left

  298. jere has joined

  299. moparisthebest has left

  300. vurpo has joined

  301. ralphm has left

  302. vurpo has left

  303. vurpo has joined

  304. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  305. SamWhited

    According to some rapid grepping; Peter is an author of 59% of all XEPs. Perhapse we should consider minting the position fo "Executive Director Emeritus"

  306. Guus


  307. jonasw

    yeah, I also feel that PSA might deserve some permanent honouary mention somewhere

  308. Kev

    Generally, things like that have happened when someone leaves the XSF, I believe.

  309. SamWhited

    In that case, let's make sure we never mint the position of "Executive Director Emeritus" :)

  310. vurpo has left

  311. vurpo has joined

  312. Kev

    We do have Emeritus members.

  313. Mancho has left

  314. bjc has left

  315. bjc has joined

  316. Guus

    Those should perhaps get some more exposure?

  317. dwd

    Kev, Yes, but they're not "normal" members - you can't be both.

  318. Kev

    dwd: See what I said earlier about 'when someone leaves the XSF' :)

  319. Guus

    https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation.html does not list them, nor does https://xmpp.org/community/membership.html

  320. dwd

    Kev, Ah, yes. Missed that, sorry.

  321. Guus

    Who are our Emeritus members?

  322. Kev

    They should be listed on the website.

  323. Kev

    So I wonder if this was something lost in the Great Website Improvement.

  324. Guus

    it is why I asked - couldn't quickly identify them on the website

  325. Guus

    There is this awesome announcement for summit 19 though: https://xmpp.org/community/events.html

  326. Guus


  327. Guus


  328. Tobias has joined

  329. nyco has joined

  330. Tobias has joined

  331. Alex

    emeritus members are listed at the end here: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/members

  332. nicolas.verite has left

  333. Alex

    in the past they were proposed on the memberlist and we voted on them.

  334. Kev has left

  335. Guus

    Ah, thanks Alex

  336. Guus

    should we, perhaps, dedicate a bit more of virtual space to them? Define why they're considered emeritus members, for instance?

  337. Kev

    Probably, yes.

  338. nicolas.verite has joined

  339. Holger has left

  340. SamWhited

    moparisthebest: Possible future update for XEP-0368; I was adding a section to register the SRV services and realized that there's no actual example of what a full direct-TLS SRV record should look like. That would probably make things a lot easier on people creating one.

  341. moparisthebest

    yea it could, I didn't know how much of the SRV spec I should put in there

  342. moparisthebest

    I don't mind more examples or anything though

  343. SamWhited

    I don't think you need any of the SRV spec, just an example of what the thing you're describing actually looks like so I can copy/paste it into bind9 or wherever and call it a day and not read the spec :)

  344. SamWhited

    I started to add an SRV registration, but I was looking at the wrong thing (protocol registry, not service registry) and I don't think there's such a thing as registering a service, so maybe there's nothing to do here. I can't find anything that creates such a registry anyways.

  345. SamWhited

    Or rather, I think it's just part of the port number registry, but since we don't actually have port numbers for this it probably doesn't matter.

  346. jere has joined

  347. jonasw

    hm, it may matter

  348. jonasw

    we should probably get a port for this then

  349. jonasw

    or raise the issue with the people responsible for SRV, because having fixed ports allocated does not make sense in this context

  350. SamWhited

    I don't think there's an issue to raise; we don't have a port, so nothing to do here.

  351. kaboom has left

  352. jonasw

    what I mean is: there are several use-cases for SRV records. you don’t want conflicts in the Service field. but you also don’t want to have a port allocation for each of these use cases, because it doesn’t make sense with SRV-native applications (as the port is in the record itself). I don’t think that is covered by the SRV-RFC (by looking at it quickly)

  353. jonasw

    it’s not like we *have* to do anything here, but I wonder what the SRV peoples stance on this is

  354. SamWhited

    We have the protocol registered, so there won't be conflicts in the service field because we'd have to write a new XEP to create a duplicate service under the xmpp-client or xmpp-server protocol.

  355. dwd

    Glancing through RFC 2782, it seems to suggest that if there *is* a name in Assigned Numbers, that's the name to use, but otherwise there's nothing. So maybe nothing is needed.

  356. dwd

    Although https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gudmundsson-dns-srv-iana-registry-04 - but that seems to have stalled. Seems to be an individual effort - we should probably ask our friendly Area Director what to do.

  357. Valerian has joined

  358. Yagiza has left

  359. SamWhited

    we need a dedicated registrar who knows this stuff; I can barely keep just the editor things in my head

  360. kalkin has left

  361. dwd

    SamWhited, Agreed. The "XMPP Registrar" is meant to do this, and is currently sort-of the Editor - finding a body to do this would seem sensible.

  362. jere has joined

  363. Kev

    Sam's suffering a little bit from us deciding Editor was too big a job for one person and needed a team...and then Sam ended up being (more or less) the only active person on that team.

  364. nicolas.verite has left

  365. suzyo has joined

  366. kaboom has joined

  367. daniel has left

  368. dwd

    Kev, Indeed.

  369. SamWhited

    I think it's mostly a matter of tooling and process; the jobs small enough for one person (or could be done by a number of people pretty easily without them getting in eachothers way), there's just a lot of shit to do that could be automated (which I will eventually get fed up enough to do)

  370. SamWhited is not sure why publishing an XEP requires anything more than "merge to master and wait for Travis to email you saying it's published or you broke it"

  371. Kev

    SamWhited: Hysterical Raisins, partly.

  372. nyco has joined

  373. Kev

    In the olden days, stuff got pushed to master as a WIP.

  374. SamWhited

    (I have never heard that term; this is great, Kev ++)

  375. jonasw

    SamWhited: which parts could use automation?

  376. Kev

    SamWhited: I got it from a colleague of mine, although I'm happy to take credit.

  377. jonasw


  378. SamWhited

    jonasw: All of it. Any time I have to touch a script (sourcing a python virtualenv, generating the XEP, sending an email, sending an IPR thing, etc.) is a place where I could screw up, and none of it requires human intervention.

  379. jonasw

    SamWhited: I am not familiar with the editor process, but I’m familiar with automating stuff

  380. SamWhited

    Oh reeaallly… be careful what you say out loud :)

  381. jonasw


  382. jonasw

    I know why I said that :)

  383. dwd

    SamWhited, I can take on XMPP Registrar if nobody else will, I think. Although I'd appreciate borrowing jonasw's automation skillz if he's offering freely.

  384. jonasw

    although I’m not sure what you’d need a python virtualenv for in the editing process.

  385. SamWhited

    jonasw: it uses some texml library that can only be found on an ancient sourceforge repo and doesn't exist in any packaged form that I can find

  386. SamWhited

    But the build process isn't something I want to touch personally; just automating it.

  387. jonasw

    holy the heck wat.

  388. SamWhited

    http://getfo.org/texml/ is how we generate PDFs

  389. jonasw

    yeah, figured from grep + wikipedia

  390. SamWhited

    jonasw: But yah, if you're actually interested in helping automate some stuff, a good one that I think could be done first and easily since it's sort of separate from the rest of the process is signing IPR releases. Just setting up a CLA bot or something so that the first time people make a PR on GitHub it makes them sign the release would be super helpful.

  391. SamWhited

    I forget to send it all the time, and I'm sure that's a bad thing for some reason.

  392. jonasw

    what is CLA?

  393. Kev

    Contributor License Agreement

  394. jonasw

    SamWhited: fun though, I think you owe me an IPR release then.

  395. SamWhited

    Yah, we don't have one of those, but the bots could be used for making people sign our intellectual property release just the same way

  396. SamWhited

    jonasw: Do I? Probably…

  397. jubalh has left

  398. nicolas.verite has joined

  399. nicolas.verite has left

  400. jonasw

    are you specifically talking about that thing here? https://clabot.github.io/

  401. SamWhited

    not specifically; there are a ton of them. No idea which ones are good or nto.

  402. SamWhited


  403. edhelas has left

  404. moparisthebest

    SamWhited, so re https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/447 my only nit is it doesn't say it needs registered in the ALPN section anymore, there are a lot of TLS extensions on that page

  405. SamWhited

    moparisthebest: Oops; yah, not sure how to do that and make it an entity which can be linked elsewhere. Maybe it doesn't matter; the main thing I was trying to do is just not make the link the word "here" (these are printed too)

  406. moparisthebest

    yea I don't like linked here's either

  407. moparisthebest

    maybe just mention these ALPN Protocol IDs need registered then?

  408. SamWhited

    makes sense, I'll try to improve the wording. Or we can just ditch this PR, I only made it because I thought I needed to add an SRV section, but then I didn't so I just removed it and submitted the tweaks I'd done for readability

  409. moparisthebest

    I like the rest of the tweaks

  410. kalkin has left

  411. ralphm has left

  412. vurpo has left

  413. vurpo has joined

  414. Yagiza has joined

  415. vurpo has left

  416. vurpo has joined

  417. kalkin has left

  418. daniel has left

  419. uc has left

  420. uc has joined

  421. nyco has joined

  422. Guus has left

  423. kalkin has left

  424. nyco has joined

  425. nicolas.verite has joined

  426. ralphm has left

  427. ralphm has left

  428. nyco has joined

  429. Guus has left

  430. nicolas.verite has left

  431. Zash has left

  432. pep. has joined

  433. nicolas.verite has joined

  434. Alex has left

  435. vurpo has left

  436. vurpo has joined

  437. nicolas.verite has left

  438. nyco has joined

  439. vurpo has left

  440. vurpo has joined

  441. nyco has joined

  442. kalkin has left

  443. nicolas.verite has joined

  444. jere has left

  445. nicolas.verite has left

  446. intosi has left

  447. vurpo has left

  448. vurpo has joined

  449. Mancho has left

  450. goffi has left

  451. waqas has left

  452. intosi has joined

  453. Ge0rG has left

  454. jere has joined

  455. Yagiza has left

  456. Guus has left

  457. Steve Kille has left

  458. Steve Kille has left

  459. suzyo has left

  460. Steve Kille has joined

  461. intosi has left

  462. daniel has left

  463. ralphm has left

  464. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  465. bjc has left

  466. bjc has joined

  467. Guus has left

  468. Martin has left

  469. rion has left

  470. Steve Kille has left

  471. Flow has joined

  472. sonny has joined

  473. daniel has left

  474. sonny has joined

  475. ralphm has joined

  476. Valerian has left

  477. nicolas.verite has joined

  478. Valerian has joined

  479. Guus has left

  480. Guus has joined

  481. intosi has joined

  482. Ge0rG has joined

  483. nyco has joined

  484. nicolas.verite has left

  485. Valerian has left

  486. nyco has joined

  487. sezuan has left

  488. intosi has left

  489. Ge0rG has left

  490. ralphm has left

  491. Valerian has joined

  492. Tobias has left

  493. xnyhps has left

  494. Ge0rG has joined

  495. daniel has left

  496. daniel has joined

  497. nicolas.verite has joined

  498. nicolas.verite has left

  499. ralphm has left

  500. Mancho has left

  501. nyco has joined

  502. nicolas.verite has joined

  503. jubalh has joined

  504. kalkin has left

  505. nyco has joined

  506. vurpo has left

  507. vurpo has joined

  508. Ge0rG has joined

  509. jonasw has left

  510. rion has joined

  511. Alex has joined

  512. nyco has joined

  513. nyco has joined

  514. nicolas.verite has left

  515. nyco has joined

  516. jubalh has left

  517. moparisthebest has left

  518. moparisthebest has joined

  519. nicolas.verite has joined

  520. intosi has joined

  521. nicolas.verite has left

  522. moparisthebest has left

  523. nyco has joined

  524. lskdjf has joined

  525. kalkin has left

  526. rion has left

  527. lskdjf has left

  528. goffi has joined

  529. blipp has left

  530. blipp has joined

  531. moparisthebest has joined

  532. nyco has joined

  533. ralphm has left

  534. sonny has joined

  535. sonny has joined

  536. suzyo has joined

  537. moparisthebest has left

  538. nyco has joined

  539. nicolas.verite has joined

  540. nicolas.verite has left

  541. jere has joined

  542. SamWhited has left

  543. Mancho has left

  544. ralphm has left

  545. nyco has left

  546. jere has joined

  547. nicolas.verite has joined

  548. nyco has left

  549. nicolas.verite has left

  550. daniel has left

  551. daniel has joined

  552. SamWhited has left

  553. kalkin has left

  554. Guus has left

  555. nyco has joined

  556. moparisthebest has joined

  557. arc has joined

  558. Guus has left

  559. Guus has joined

  560. nyco has joined

  561. sonny has left

  562. sonny has joined

  563. Valerian has left

  564. boothj5 has joined

  565. nyco has joined

  566. intosi has left

  567. vurpo has left

  568. vurpo has joined

  569. sezuan has left

  570. nicolas.verite has joined

  571. ralphm has left

  572. suzyo has left

  573. kalkin has left

  574. vurpo has left

  575. vurpo has joined

  576. Tobias has joined

  577. efrit has joined

  578. vurpo has left

  579. vurpo has joined

  580. nyco has joined

  581. Mancho has left

  582. Mancho has left

  583. goffi has left

  584. vurpo has left

  585. vurpo has joined

  586. efrit has left

  587. efrit has joined

  588. sonny has left

  589. sezuan has left

  590. SamWhited has left

  591. vurpo has left

  592. vurpo has joined

  593. sezuan has left

  594. sonny has joined

  595. vurpo has left

  596. vurpo has joined

  597. vurpo has left

  598. vurpo has joined

  599. kaboom has left

  600. kaboom has left

  601. blipp has left

  602. blipp has joined

  603. vurpo has left

  604. vurpo has joined

  605. kaboom has left

  606. bra has left

  607. bra has joined

  608. kaboom has left

  609. efrit has joined

  610. kaboom has left

  611. kaboom has left

  612. kaboom has left

  613. boothj5 has left

  614. kaboom has left