XSF Discussion - 2017-03-14

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  80. nyco efrit: a Slashdot "debate" is taking place around this, and the failure of XMPP
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  94. Zash Slashdot still exists?
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  107. Ge0rG And it's full of dumb trolls. Nothing changed in the last 15 years
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  113. ralphm I Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you.
  114. ralphm In Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you.
  115. uc Ge0rG: or paid trolls? I will not be surprised if it's some company's PR marketing
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  117. Zash Fake news regarding our demise?
  118. uc Aand someone linked to this https://m.imgur.com/nfivrKQ?r
  119. jonasw as I said, someone needs to create a client which comes bundled with an XMPP server and hand-picked and automatically set up transports.
  120. Zash Do it, then talk about it.
  121. jonasw Zash: it’s on my todo actually. at least IRC, because I have usecases for that myself. Prosody would be the bundled server ;-)
  122. rion I believe libtransport is designed almost for this.
  123. jonasw is that spectrum?
  124. rion yep
  125. Zash uc: that was the original purpose of jabber, back in the day, to unite all different chat systems using bridges
  126. jonasw my experience with spectrum is unfortunately rather bad
  127. Ge0rG uc: I really can't imagine a company being dumb enough to pay for /. propaganda.
  128. Ge0rG uc: OTOH, marketing is usually led by a huge amount of heroine, so who knows.
  129. Ge0rG doesn't spectrum also bundle libpurple?
  130. Ge0rG I still have nightmares about exposing an internet service that's linked against libpurple.
  131. jonasw it depends on it, yes.
  132. uc Ge0rG: but are trying reinvent the wheel lol
  133. jonasw I think the multiline makes your client QUIT :with a nice message issue was also due to libpurple. Or maybe that was libcommuni and libpurple just had the /quit on the first line to quit your client with a nice message
  134. jonasw issue.
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  136. Zash Does it still depend on gtk & co?
  137. jonasw but no point in bashing projects which at least try to do something better. especially if I haven’t taken the time to look into that multi-line thing
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  163. Guus So, psa is stepping down. Now what?
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  165. Kev Board choose a new ED. That's about it :)
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  168. Ge0rG what's the job of the ED?
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  180. Guus (what he asked)
  181. dwd "Get stuff done". More or less.
  182. dwd Bylaws, section 6.6 has the details, but the ED's job is to ensure that the Board's resolutions are carried out, and signs any contracts.
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  243. Ge0rG so, what's the consensus of yesterday's "how much do we trust a remote MUC" debate?
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  254. Ge0rG just had a really weird moment. Sitting in a regional train, I see an ad on the built-in display... "no ads... good battery use... the app for whistleblowers". Turned out to be a review of OWS' Signal by some smartphone news portal.
  255. Ge0rG At least I hope so. The alternative would be moxie haunting me.
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  305. SamWhited According to some rapid grepping; Peter is an author of 59% of all XEPs. Perhapse we should consider minting the position fo "Executive Director Emeritus"
  306. Guus +1
  307. jonasw yeah, I also feel that PSA might deserve some permanent honouary mention somewhere
  308. Kev Generally, things like that have happened when someone leaves the XSF, I believe.
  309. SamWhited In that case, let's make sure we never mint the position of "Executive Director Emeritus" :)
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  312. Kev We do have Emeritus members.
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  316. Guus Those should perhaps get some more exposure?
  317. dwd Kev, Yes, but they're not "normal" members - you can't be both.
  318. Kev dwd: See what I said earlier about 'when someone leaves the XSF' :)
  319. Guus https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation.html does not list them, nor does https://xmpp.org/community/membership.html
  320. dwd Kev, Ah, yes. Missed that, sorry.
  321. Guus Who are our Emeritus members?
  322. Kev They should be listed on the website.
  323. Kev So I wonder if this was something lost in the Great Website Improvement.
  324. Guus it is why I asked - couldn't quickly identify them on the website
  325. Guus There is this awesome announcement for summit 19 though: https://xmpp.org/community/events.html
  326. Guus https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/275
  327. Guus https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/276
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  331. Alex emeritus members are listed at the end here: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/members
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  333. Alex in the past they were proposed on the memberlist and we voted on them.
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  335. Guus Ah, thanks Alex
  336. Guus should we, perhaps, dedicate a bit more of virtual space to them? Define why they're considered emeritus members, for instance?
  337. Kev Probably, yes.
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  340. SamWhited moparisthebest: Possible future update for XEP-0368; I was adding a section to register the SRV services and realized that there's no actual example of what a full direct-TLS SRV record should look like. That would probably make things a lot easier on people creating one.
  341. moparisthebest yea it could, I didn't know how much of the SRV spec I should put in there
  342. moparisthebest I don't mind more examples or anything though
  343. SamWhited I don't think you need any of the SRV spec, just an example of what the thing you're describing actually looks like so I can copy/paste it into bind9 or wherever and call it a day and not read the spec :)
  344. SamWhited I started to add an SRV registration, but I was looking at the wrong thing (protocol registry, not service registry) and I don't think there's such a thing as registering a service, so maybe there's nothing to do here. I can't find anything that creates such a registry anyways.
  345. SamWhited Or rather, I think it's just part of the port number registry, but since we don't actually have port numbers for this it probably doesn't matter.
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  347. jonasw hm, it may matter
  348. jonasw we should probably get a port for this then
  349. jonasw or raise the issue with the people responsible for SRV, because having fixed ports allocated does not make sense in this context
  350. SamWhited I don't think there's an issue to raise; we don't have a port, so nothing to do here.
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  352. jonasw what I mean is: there are several use-cases for SRV records. you don’t want conflicts in the Service field. but you also don’t want to have a port allocation for each of these use cases, because it doesn’t make sense with SRV-native applications (as the port is in the record itself). I don’t think that is covered by the SRV-RFC (by looking at it quickly)
  353. jonasw it’s not like we *have* to do anything here, but I wonder what the SRV peoples stance on this is
  354. SamWhited We have the protocol registered, so there won't be conflicts in the service field because we'd have to write a new XEP to create a duplicate service under the xmpp-client or xmpp-server protocol.
  355. dwd Glancing through RFC 2782, it seems to suggest that if there *is* a name in Assigned Numbers, that's the name to use, but otherwise there's nothing. So maybe nothing is needed.
  356. dwd Although https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gudmundsson-dns-srv-iana-registry-04 - but that seems to have stalled. Seems to be an individual effort - we should probably ask our friendly Area Director what to do.
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  359. SamWhited we need a dedicated registrar who knows this stuff; I can barely keep just the editor things in my head
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  361. dwd SamWhited, Agreed. The "XMPP Registrar" is meant to do this, and is currently sort-of the Editor - finding a body to do this would seem sensible.
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  363. Kev Sam's suffering a little bit from us deciding Editor was too big a job for one person and needed a team...and then Sam ended up being (more or less) the only active person on that team.
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  368. dwd Kev, Indeed.
  369. SamWhited I think it's mostly a matter of tooling and process; the jobs small enough for one person (or could be done by a number of people pretty easily without them getting in eachothers way), there's just a lot of shit to do that could be automated (which I will eventually get fed up enough to do)
  370. SamWhited is not sure why publishing an XEP requires anything more than "merge to master and wait for Travis to email you saying it's published or you broke it"
  371. Kev SamWhited: Hysterical Raisins, partly.
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  373. Kev In the olden days, stuff got pushed to master as a WIP.
  374. SamWhited (I have never heard that term; this is great, Kev ++)
  375. jonasw SamWhited: which parts could use automation?
  376. Kev SamWhited: I got it from a colleague of mine, although I'm happy to take credit.
  377. jonasw .oO(<http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/hysterical-reasons.html>)
  378. SamWhited jonasw: All of it. Any time I have to touch a script (sourcing a python virtualenv, generating the XEP, sending an email, sending an IPR thing, etc.) is a place where I could screw up, and none of it requires human intervention.
  379. jonasw SamWhited: I am not familiar with the editor process, but I’m familiar with automating stuff
  380. SamWhited Oh reeaallly… be careful what you say out loud :)
  381. jonasw *shrug*
  382. jonasw I know why I said that :)
  383. dwd SamWhited, I can take on XMPP Registrar if nobody else will, I think. Although I'd appreciate borrowing jonasw's automation skillz if he's offering freely.
  384. jonasw although I’m not sure what you’d need a python virtualenv for in the editing process.
  385. SamWhited jonasw: it uses some texml library that can only be found on an ancient sourceforge repo and doesn't exist in any packaged form that I can find
  386. SamWhited But the build process isn't something I want to touch personally; just automating it.
  387. jonasw holy the heck wat.
  388. SamWhited http://getfo.org/texml/ is how we generate PDFs
  389. jonasw yeah, figured from grep + wikipedia
  390. SamWhited jonasw: But yah, if you're actually interested in helping automate some stuff, a good one that I think could be done first and easily since it's sort of separate from the rest of the process is signing IPR releases. Just setting up a CLA bot or something so that the first time people make a PR on GitHub it makes them sign the release would be super helpful.
  391. SamWhited I forget to send it all the time, and I'm sure that's a bad thing for some reason.
  392. jonasw what is CLA?
  393. Kev Contributor License Agreement
  394. jonasw SamWhited: fun though, I think you owe me an IPR release then.
  395. SamWhited Yah, we don't have one of those, but the bots could be used for making people sign our intellectual property release just the same way
  396. SamWhited jonasw: Do I? Probably…
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  400. jonasw are you specifically talking about that thing here? https://clabot.github.io/
  401. SamWhited not specifically; there are a ton of them. No idea which ones are good or nto.
  402. SamWhited *not
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  404. moparisthebest SamWhited, so re https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/447 my only nit is it doesn't say it needs registered in the ALPN section anymore, there are a lot of TLS extensions on that page
  405. SamWhited moparisthebest: Oops; yah, not sure how to do that and make it an entity which can be linked elsewhere. Maybe it doesn't matter; the main thing I was trying to do is just not make the link the word "here" (these are printed too)
  406. moparisthebest yea I don't like linked here's either
  407. moparisthebest maybe just mention these ALPN Protocol IDs need registered then?
  408. SamWhited makes sense, I'll try to improve the wording. Or we can just ditch this PR, I only made it because I thought I needed to add an SRV section, but then I didn't so I just removed it and submitted the tweaks I'd done for readability
  409. moparisthebest I like the rest of the tweaks
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  599. kaboom has left
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  601. blipp has left
  602. blipp has joined
  603. vurpo has left
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  605. kaboom has left
  606. bra has left
  607. bra has joined
  608. kaboom has left
  609. efrit has joined
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  613. boothj5 has left
  614. kaboom has left