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nyco
efrit: a Slashdot "debate" is taking place around this, and the failure of XMPP
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Zash
Slashdot still exists?
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Ge0rG
And it's full of dumb trolls. Nothing changed in the last 15 years
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ralphm
I Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you.✎ -
ralphm
In Soviet Russia, trolls dumb you. ✏
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uc
Ge0rG: or paid trolls? I will not be surprised if it's some company's PR marketing
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Zash
Fake news regarding our demise?
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uc
Aand someone linked to this https://m.imgur.com/nfivrKQ?r
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jonasw
as I said, someone needs to create a client which comes bundled with an XMPP server and hand-picked and automatically set up transports.
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Zash
Do it, then talk about it.
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jonasw
Zash: it’s on my todo actually. at least IRC, because I have usecases for that myself. Prosody would be the bundled server ;-)
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rion
I believe libtransport is designed almost for this.
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jonasw
is that spectrum?
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rion
yep
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Zash
uc: that was the original purpose of jabber, back in the day, to unite all different chat systems using bridges
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jonasw
my experience with spectrum is unfortunately rather bad
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Ge0rG
uc: I really can't imagine a company being dumb enough to pay for /. propaganda.
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Ge0rG
uc: OTOH, marketing is usually led by a huge amount of heroine, so who knows.
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Ge0rG
doesn't spectrum also bundle libpurple?
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Ge0rG
I still have nightmares about exposing an internet service that's linked against libpurple.
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jonasw
it depends on it, yes.
-
uc
Ge0rG: but are trying reinvent the wheel lol
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jonasw
I think the multiline makes your client QUIT :with a nice message issue was also due to libpurple. Or maybe that was libcommuni and libpurple just had the /quit on the first line to quit your client with a nice message
-
jonasw
issue.
-
Zash
Does it still depend on gtk & co?
-
jonasw
but no point in bashing projects which at least try to do something better. especially if I haven’t taken the time to look into that multi-line thing
-
Guus
So, psa is stepping down. Now what?
-
Kev
Board choose a new ED. That's about it :)
-
Ge0rG
what's the job of the ED?
-
Guus
(what he asked)
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dwd
"Get stuff done". More or less.
-
dwd
Bylaws, section 6.6 has the details, but the ED's job is to ensure that the Board's resolutions are carried out, and signs any contracts.
-
Ge0rG
so, what's the consensus of yesterday's "how much do we trust a remote MUC" debate?
- Ge0rG just had a really weird moment. Sitting in a regional train, I see an ad on the built-in display... "no ads... good battery use... the app for whistleblowers". Turned out to be a review of OWS' Signal by some smartphone news portal.
-
Ge0rG
At least I hope so. The alternative would be moxie haunting me.
-
SamWhited
According to some rapid grepping; Peter is an author of 59% of all XEPs. Perhapse we should consider minting the position fo "Executive Director Emeritus"
-
Guus
+1
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jonasw
yeah, I also feel that PSA might deserve some permanent honouary mention somewhere
-
Kev
Generally, things like that have happened when someone leaves the XSF, I believe.
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SamWhited
In that case, let's make sure we never mint the position of "Executive Director Emeritus" :)
-
Kev
We do have Emeritus members.
-
Guus
Those should perhaps get some more exposure?
-
dwd
Kev, Yes, but they're not "normal" members - you can't be both.
-
Kev
dwd: See what I said earlier about 'when someone leaves the XSF' :)
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Guus
https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation.html does not list them, nor does https://xmpp.org/community/membership.html
-
dwd
Kev, Ah, yes. Missed that, sorry.
-
Guus
Who are our Emeritus members?
-
Kev
They should be listed on the website.
-
Kev
So I wonder if this was something lost in the Great Website Improvement.
-
Guus
it is why I asked - couldn't quickly identify them on the website
-
Guus
There is this awesome announcement for summit 19 though: https://xmpp.org/community/events.html
-
Guus
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/275
-
Guus
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/276
-
Alex
emeritus members are listed at the end here: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/members
-
Alex
in the past they were proposed on the memberlist and we voted on them.
-
Guus
Ah, thanks Alex
-
Guus
should we, perhaps, dedicate a bit more of virtual space to them? Define why they're considered emeritus members, for instance?
-
Kev
Probably, yes.
-
SamWhited
moparisthebest: Possible future update for XEP-0368; I was adding a section to register the SRV services and realized that there's no actual example of what a full direct-TLS SRV record should look like. That would probably make things a lot easier on people creating one.
-
moparisthebest
yea it could, I didn't know how much of the SRV spec I should put in there
-
moparisthebest
I don't mind more examples or anything though
-
SamWhited
I don't think you need any of the SRV spec, just an example of what the thing you're describing actually looks like so I can copy/paste it into bind9 or wherever and call it a day and not read the spec :)
-
SamWhited
I started to add an SRV registration, but I was looking at the wrong thing (protocol registry, not service registry) and I don't think there's such a thing as registering a service, so maybe there's nothing to do here. I can't find anything that creates such a registry anyways.
-
SamWhited
Or rather, I think it's just part of the port number registry, but since we don't actually have port numbers for this it probably doesn't matter.
-
jonasw
hm, it may matter
-
jonasw
we should probably get a port for this then
-
jonasw
or raise the issue with the people responsible for SRV, because having fixed ports allocated does not make sense in this context
-
SamWhited
I don't think there's an issue to raise; we don't have a port, so nothing to do here.
-
jonasw
what I mean is: there are several use-cases for SRV records. you don’t want conflicts in the Service field. but you also don’t want to have a port allocation for each of these use cases, because it doesn’t make sense with SRV-native applications (as the port is in the record itself). I don’t think that is covered by the SRV-RFC (by looking at it quickly)
-
jonasw
it’s not like we *have* to do anything here, but I wonder what the SRV peoples stance on this is
-
SamWhited
We have the protocol registered, so there won't be conflicts in the service field because we'd have to write a new XEP to create a duplicate service under the xmpp-client or xmpp-server protocol.
-
dwd
Glancing through RFC 2782, it seems to suggest that if there *is* a name in Assigned Numbers, that's the name to use, but otherwise there's nothing. So maybe nothing is needed.
-
dwd
Although https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gudmundsson-dns-srv-iana-registry-04 - but that seems to have stalled. Seems to be an individual effort - we should probably ask our friendly Area Director what to do.
-
SamWhited
we need a dedicated registrar who knows this stuff; I can barely keep just the editor things in my head
-
dwd
SamWhited, Agreed. The "XMPP Registrar" is meant to do this, and is currently sort-of the Editor - finding a body to do this would seem sensible.
-
Kev
Sam's suffering a little bit from us deciding Editor was too big a job for one person and needed a team...and then Sam ended up being (more or less) the only active person on that team.
-
dwd
Kev, Indeed.
-
SamWhited
I think it's mostly a matter of tooling and process; the jobs small enough for one person (or could be done by a number of people pretty easily without them getting in eachothers way), there's just a lot of shit to do that could be automated (which I will eventually get fed up enough to do)
- SamWhited is not sure why publishing an XEP requires anything more than "merge to master and wait for Travis to email you saying it's published or you broke it"
-
Kev
SamWhited: Hysterical Raisins, partly.
-
Kev
In the olden days, stuff got pushed to master as a WIP.
-
SamWhited
(I have never heard that term; this is great, Kev ++)
-
jonasw
SamWhited: which parts could use automation?
-
Kev
SamWhited: I got it from a colleague of mine, although I'm happy to take credit.
-
jonasw
.oO(<http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/hysterical-reasons.html>)
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SamWhited
jonasw: All of it. Any time I have to touch a script (sourcing a python virtualenv, generating the XEP, sending an email, sending an IPR thing, etc.) is a place where I could screw up, and none of it requires human intervention.
-
jonasw
SamWhited: I am not familiar with the editor process, but I’m familiar with automating stuff
-
SamWhited
Oh reeaallly… be careful what you say out loud :)
-
jonasw
*shrug*
-
jonasw
I know why I said that :)
-
dwd
SamWhited, I can take on XMPP Registrar if nobody else will, I think. Although I'd appreciate borrowing jonasw's automation skillz if he's offering freely.
-
jonasw
although I’m not sure what you’d need a python virtualenv for in the editing process.
-
SamWhited
jonasw: it uses some texml library that can only be found on an ancient sourceforge repo and doesn't exist in any packaged form that I can find
-
SamWhited
But the build process isn't something I want to touch personally; just automating it.
-
jonasw
holy the heck wat.
-
SamWhited
http://getfo.org/texml/ is how we generate PDFs
-
jonasw
yeah, figured from grep + wikipedia
-
SamWhited
jonasw: But yah, if you're actually interested in helping automate some stuff, a good one that I think could be done first and easily since it's sort of separate from the rest of the process is signing IPR releases. Just setting up a CLA bot or something so that the first time people make a PR on GitHub it makes them sign the release would be super helpful.
-
SamWhited
I forget to send it all the time, and I'm sure that's a bad thing for some reason.
-
jonasw
what is CLA?
-
Kev
Contributor License Agreement
-
jonasw
SamWhited: fun though, I think you owe me an IPR release then.
-
SamWhited
Yah, we don't have one of those, but the bots could be used for making people sign our intellectual property release just the same way
-
SamWhited
jonasw: Do I? Probably…
-
jonasw
are you specifically talking about that thing here? https://clabot.github.io/
-
SamWhited
not specifically; there are a ton of them. No idea which ones are good or nto.
-
SamWhited
*not
-
moparisthebest
SamWhited, so re https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/447 my only nit is it doesn't say it needs registered in the ALPN section anymore, there are a lot of TLS extensions on that page
-
SamWhited
moparisthebest: Oops; yah, not sure how to do that and make it an entity which can be linked elsewhere. Maybe it doesn't matter; the main thing I was trying to do is just not make the link the word "here" (these are printed too)
-
moparisthebest
yea I don't like linked here's either
-
moparisthebest
maybe just mention these ALPN Protocol IDs need registered then?
-
SamWhited
makes sense, I'll try to improve the wording. Or we can just ditch this PR, I only made it because I thought I needed to add an SRV section, but then I didn't so I just removed it and submitted the tweaks I'd done for readability
-
moparisthebest
I like the rest of the tweaks