XSF Discussion - 2017-03-22

lovetox: once sent and once received, in a twisted, technical, non-UX-oriented way it makes sense.

Does the Prosody one do that?

I'm pondering about writing an XEP for clients to properly handle message-to-self situation. I was thinking about using the 'sent' carbon, but with MAM it's getting blurry

It's just that I don't have a MAM implementation yet

BING! Meetup in Paris next week!

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups

https://twitter.com/JabberFR/status/844555149276319744

great..will reweet that on the xmpp account

*retweet

thx! ;-)

Flow, when does the IoT SIG usally meet?

Tobias: There is no scheduled next meeting.

is there room in all the countries for other XMPP/Jabber Meetups?

Netherlands, maybe?

Flow, would be nice to set one up to discuss the IEEE IoT and XMPP IoT strategy, including some council presence

Tobias: I suggest contacting Rikard

ok

any perseus admins here?

maybe

just wondering if you know where the observatory frontend code lives on here

uff..no... intosi might know that

ok how about, how are vdomains configured on here

im not finding the things id expect in /etc/apache2 or /etc/nginx

In the nginx config.

ah there it is, ok. i was looking in sites-enabled, didnt notice the vdomains

i havent used nginx for a very long time

I think you'll find the observatory code at https://bitbucket.org/xnyhps/xmppoke-frontend

i thought everybody was using it nowadays :)

/var/www/vhosts/xmpp.net

Tobias: i might be, if I had not interviewed for a job with them

… until they find that nginx cannot into && or nested ifs

their CEO is a former rugby teammate of mine, Gus. I'm not working for them because they don't allow employees to work on FOSS projects outside of work without explicit permission

Tobias: depends on the server. I have machines running nginx and lighttpd, but the majority is apache.

so I don't consider nginx a valid FOSS project anymore.

It seems to depend on how long it's been since you've set up the server :)

originally I used apache, then changed to lighttpd, now everything runs nginx

Some of these servers go back almost 20 years.

i know nginx is just now getting dynamically loaded modules but doesn't have a stable module api; that's another perk of Apache

though honestly in the end it shouldn't really matter, everything should be containerized anyway

apache httpd is falling behind in the area of http/2.0, its implemented through loaded modules but not nearly as well supported as core

and apache2's websocket support is still tack-on requiring a bit of a hack with the i/o filters

yea arc at least currently nginx is first with support for everything

I'll give you that. But its always easier when your design is primarily monolithic and centralized, employed developers

especially ones banned from writing other code right arc ? :P

How can that be legal?

Zash: freedomland probably

Zash, I suppose it's just a regular contract right?

It's probably not, depending on where they're headquartered.

either way no one who wants to keep that job is going to sue them over it

But yah, what moparisthebest said; doesn't matter if it's unenforceable, chances are most people won't take legal action if they get fired.

Weird and broken

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/

that at least gave me an idea why the heck you’d want to do that, aside from pure evilness

hmm arc didn't you say nginx was in california? if that article is to be believed they have a law against that

California definitely has a law against that; doesn't stop people from doing it unless someone challenges them though.

right, that'd be enough to at least make me feel comfortable they couldn't steal my unrelated work

where I live, nobody can steal my copyright.

Ge0rG, your employer doesn't own what you write for them?

moparisthebest: copyright is a personal right in Germany. You can't give it away, you can merely grant exclusive distribution rights

Ge0rG: Here that applies to all works of art, except code.

Zash: this is because most code is not art.

Code is just zeros and ones, so obviously it's not a work of art. It just happens.

in most countries the fact that your employer can’t deprive you of your copyright doesn’t mean that they can’t lawyer you into oblivion for this anyway

so Ge0rG what stops you from working at a company, writing some critical code, quitting or being fired, then 'revoking distribution rights' ?

(also I found the joel article really bad)

the first non-self-employed programming job I had was contracting, they had a clause like this, when I asked about it they said "oh you mean like writing code for the linux kernel?" I said "something like that" they said "oh we use linux all the time so that's fine" I really needed the job so I didn't argue

my current job is just in-house software for a medical company, they don't produce software, so they don't have any clause like this

moparisthebest: there are bounds to what is admissible in contracts between employers and employees, and if either side bends the contract too much, there are courts

I got a job offer in between that had a clause like this, I said it wasn't acceptable, they said people say that all the time and removed it no questions asked...

moparisthebest: I don’t think you can revoke those rights after you signed to pass them.

moparisthebest: I'm pretty sure that "all your code belong to us" is illegal in DE, and thus that clause will have no effect

It doesn't matter if it has an effect or not if you get sued and don't have the time or money to deal with lawyers.

I think laws kind of protect you some ways, I'd still much rather have a clear contract without that bad clause though

because like SamWhited said I don't have lawyers or time or money to fight lawsuits against huge companies

moparisthebest: if it isn’t legal in $country, reasonable employers won’t have such a clause :-)

(and if they have and insist on having it, I would worry about other things wrong in that company)

jonasw, it's not legal in california apparantly and they still do

I have a clause in my contract that I need permission from my boss to do other jobs (which is illegal, I only need to inform them), and he spoiled my christmas party because my photo gallery is on a .pro domain and it might be a side business.

Ge0rG: ugh

how did he spoil it?

not sure if he tried to be funny or just mean, but he proposed paying me photographer wage instead of itsec wage if this is what I want to do.

sounds like an asshole haha

moparisthebest: my contractual obligations forbid me to comment on that .P

yea I'd encourage you not to either way :)

moparisthebest: there isn't a law in California against an employer stopping you from working on things on your own time. The law is that your employer cannot claim ownership of IP you develop while employed, worked on in your own time and on your own equipment.

you better not respond to github tickets from your business-owned phone

some employers such as Google go so far as purchasing special pens with chemically doped inks so that any documents written with their pens can be challeged later to be Google's IP, since their equipment was used

seriously? that sounds like a joke

I hope it's a joke...

joke day is next week

its not a joke, ive had 3 googlers warning me about the gift pens

im not and will never be an employee

there was apparently a court case where this was disclosed; two former employees who left to do a startup doing something similar to what they were doing at Google, and Google claimed they developed it with company property.

If they're gifting the pens, doesn't that undermine their claim that anything written with them might be Google IP?

the key part is Google demanded original documents, not copies

"gifting" is the question here. they're office supplies freely available.

maybe they are only doing that to prevent Googlers from stealing office supplies?

in any case, these are the kind of bullshit talked about in the bay area. bigger than this tho, Google's employment contract forbids it and violating it is terms for immediate firing

i dont think any google needs to steal pens. they're not even that nice of pens.

I also like the other explanation, it totally fits the "don't be evil" stance.

arc: any chance you can dig up the court case?

i was just looknig for it but all im finding at the moment is the case for the "stolen IP" cases with apple and uber

google is constantly in these kind of lawsuits

this is part of the reason I haven't looked for a new better paying job

no way I'm writing healthcare industry software in my spare time, so I'm pretty much good no matter what

I just wanted to say "we are hiring" but that christmas party story probably spoiled it now.

Ge0rG, do you hire remote workers from USA ? hehe

moparisthebest: haven't tried yet. I'm a remote worker 450km away, and I'm working from home 90% of the time, and visting customers for the other 10%

moparisthebest: no idea if we can compete with west coast wages though.

I'm in the middle so I don't nearly compete with west coast wages either :)

geesus, google quietly ended their 20% policy in 2013?

but it works out because my housing/living expenses is 1/4 of west coast costs too

OTOH I can imagine some logistical challenges. 100% of our customers are German.

I know how to count to 10 in german... :)

I managed to survive three CCCongresses and two CCCamps, does it count towards knowing german?

moparisthebest: that won't suffice. you need to be able to count at least to our daily rate.

completely off topic, any tips for cooking eggs in cast iron, beside seasoning it obsessively?

Ge0rG: in the US, cops sit with their lights off in the middle of the night waiting for people to run red lights. that's why.

arc: the next-best idea that comes to my mind is to make omelette by breaking the eggs into a zipper bag and cooking it

arc: in NYC?

I once set a frozen porkchop on fire in a cast iron skillet, frozen porkchops are very flammable fyi

Ge0rG: everywhere. cops in the US have quotas for tickets.

I've experienced both NYC and Berlin as cities where nobody looks for the lights

arc: I don't think that's true, lots of my Google friends still have 20% time. Maybe a specific team got rid of it or something

they're left to their own devices to come up with ways to ticket people.

SamWhited: https://qz.com/115831/googles-20-time-which-brought-you-gmail-and-adsense-is-now-as-good-as-dead/

Ge0rG, last time I jaywalked in switzerland people were looking at me like they wanted to murder me

I am now careful of doing so in foreign countries

i actually do kindof remember this, employees talking about "120% time". now managers have to approve, rather than it being a right everyone had (usually every friday), and most managers set goals to 100% of your time so you can only work on your personal projects if you're ahead of schedule

mathieui: I found that it's fine in Brussels as long as you appear confident enough while walking

one of my friends who works as a SRE said his manager uses the 20% time as a "reward" for being on schedule, but then increases your workload after you do it since you've clearly demonstrated that you can.

More work as reward for working?

yea, why I put it in quotes.

when Google went public, a lot of things changed. Growth demanded managers started getting hired from other industries, and the corporate culture changed drastically.

Better than getting fired because there's not enough work to do I suppose.

the niceties of corporate culture

googler are smarter than that. they create more work for themselves by constantly throwing away old projects and creating new, incompatible products

why do you think they've gone through 4 IM standards in 7 years

Reinventing the wheel and NIH is so much fun!

Maybe that's just what happens when you go public; I have seen other companies engineering culture go to shit as soon as they went public (although it was not clear if that was actually the cause)… will not name names for… reasons.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware

this is making me sad.

... tractors with firmware?

all tractors have firmware now

this was the central point of the "right to repair" bills

That's completely alien to me

yea that's some ridiculous stuff

All cars have firmware these days, too.

cars are the same

John Deere is spending millions on lobbying to stop these bills because they dont want farmers to be able to hack their own tractors

cars don't even just have computers now, they have computer networks, an engine computer (sometimes multiple), a transmission computer, a computer for everything else, networked across an insecure network, which is fine, until some moron plugs an internet connected radio into it...

:'(

ive been reading tons of complaints by farmers claiming their tractors have a software-based kill switch that cause them to shut down if regular maintenance isnt performed in time or if they've surpassed their lifespan

how much of that is paranoia, vs how much is a conspiracy by the corporation, is anyone's guess.

but on a political side its *just enough* of an edge to get broad popular support

arc: dongling of tractor components is less far-fetched than chemical marking of ink

printer manufacturers are doing it for decades now

yea that's true, but about the "kill switch"

this is why I'm keeping my 1952 tractor and never buying a newer car, I've even just recently convinced my wife :)

farmers claiming their regular service lights go on, and they have 30 days before the tractors simple won't start anymore. some left stranded in the field.

arc: I expect this to happen from a company that requires farmers to sign license contracts on sold tractors.

I remember when this channel was more on topic.

farmers complaints are being treated as backwoods hicks conspiracy theories tho

ralphm: we're... orbiting... the topic.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/133R9/pepperidge-farm-remembers/image.png

No, it seems there's more and more of these discussion in this room, and I want it gone.

But maybe that's just me

ralphm, the tractors probably use xmpp for the company to remotely shut them down?

personally I don't see it interrupting actual on-topic discussion, if it did then I'd agree it's a problem

hey *IM* working on xmpp stuff right now ;-)

ralphm: It's not just you. This window flashes and I try to read it (now or later) to catch up on important XMPP discussions. People talking about tractors and Christmas parties is just wasting my time.

I'm happy to make another room on the server for people to have OT chats if they want them.

moparisthebest: I do. When I scroll back in this channel, I don't want to search XSF or XMPP related stuff with a magnifying glass. I am also not interested in philosophical debates about the evilness of Google services or licensing choices. In this venue.

Kev, +1.

Have we come to the point where we need an OT room?

Zash: I don't care one way or the other, I'd just like in here to be less woefully offtopic.

(can agree on the OT thing, even if I am sometimes actively contributing to it)

Zash, well, it *does* make backlogging more of a pain when you want to focus on XMPP stuff

splitting out off-topic discussions won't work. Forbidding them probably will, but it might not be a good idea nevertheless.

I am running out of horizontal space for conversation tabs, so -1 ;-)

Figure out how to to smarter threading

Ge0rG: I'd be happy to mandate and enforce this.

I find it easy to scroll through, I don't care either way, I'd suggest making the topic clearer on the subject though, ie offtopic conversations forbidden or whatever

Ge0rG, I have seen a few communities where splitting out off-topic discussions work quite well

ralphm: You /are/ the moderator, you have the power. :)

I’ve seen it work more-or-less okay-ish

The topic in this room is very clear. Most clients display it: "XSF Discussion"

Ooh, relevant XMPP UI consideration: horizontal tabs are a bad idea, because scroll doesn't work or doesn't feel as natural. New IM products mostly have a vertical room/chat selection thing for a reason.

if moderators throw "ECHAN" at anyone going off-topic

it doesn't say "Only XSF Discussion"

SamWhited: tell that to pidgin.

mathieui: it would require everybody interested in off-topic discussions to join a different MUC, which nobody will do voluntarily

SamWhited: Tell Kev & Tobias :)

moparisthebest, it’s less "offtopic conversations are forbidden" than "when we feel we are drifting offtopic, the conversation should move"

Like so?

Kev and Tobias! ⤴

(but yah, this is one reason I stopped using Gajim and Swift)

what could be done MIX-wise to manage discussions with threads?

Zash: Swift does have a vertical list as well, and it predates most other people starting to do that thing ;)

SamWhited, gajim has vertical tabs

mIRC had an option to make a vertical list.

Oh, nifty, I'll have to try and find it and see

vertical tabs? with rotated label text?

(it’s hidden in the ACE)

Heh, oops, I mean a list, of course, not "vertical tabs"

SamWhited: Look at the "Chats" list in Swift.

Hmm, does Conversation shows people being kicked?

Would it make sense to show kicked people, but not other presence changes?

Yes

Kev: Ah, I see; I didn't actually understand that I could use that to switch between existing chats in my huge tabs that all start with a single letter and then '…'

ralphm: but then you also need to show when that evil person comes back

It also shows every other random room I have bookmarked though, even stuff I don't actually have open, so it's not all that useful unless I dig to find things

SamWhited: pidgin at least has scrolling, which is slightly useful; it only makes you miss anything from tabs which are currently not visible >.>

SamWhited: It shows things with recent activity on top, which does the job for me most of the time, combined with M-a.

Kev: Oh, I see, I was still confused; it shows bookmarked rooms separate from recent chats

I wish I could try out swift...

we need to make these shortcuts more discoverable

Ge0rG, you could if you wouldn't use sid :P

I was looking at the bottom thinking that was rooms, and the top thinkin that was chats (not noticing that the first thing was this room)

Tobias: I tried to install the ubuntu .deb, but it also depends on boost 1.58 from half a year ago

i tested installing on 16.04 and Jessie...what ubuntu did you try?

Either way, having the horizontal tabs list is rather useless and confusing; I have no idea what room "m…" is.

sid <3

Tobias: the funniest thing is, I have half of the boost packages installed on my machine. but only half of them

Tobias: none. I just added the ubuntu repo to sid

Ge0rG: I don't care that much about that. But I'm sure it is an interesting UX concept on how to deal with occupants being kicked.

Also curious about what that looks like in MIX

Ge0rG, and expected that to work?

Tobias: yes, it often works.

ralphm: MIX will probably have much more static participant lists, as opposed to MUC

Not probably

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to kick people.

ralphm: most of the MUCs I'm in contain pages and pages of presence changes.

If only as a gesture.

See. So satisfying

Does kicking even make sense in MIX?

ralphm: sure it is.

In MIX you change participation, so there is no longer a need for an explicit Kick

SamWhited, because it runs an old ejabberd version?

Steve Kille: but people will want to have an explicit kick, because it's satisfying

Steve Kille: from a techical standpoint, maybe.

oh boy, sounds like fun; I keep meaning to see what they're sending me or what's actually going wrong.

I've been kicking people for over 20 years now, we can't simply remove that from MIX. Nobody will use it without kicks!1!

gajim only actually joined a handful of my bookmarks with auto join set, so I guess that's one way to make sure there aren't too many tabs open…

SamWhited: works for me

who's here for the meeting

huh; gajim also freezes for ~3 seconds any time I do almost anyting (eg. hit "ok" on adding a new account), so I'm assuming something about my system is just borked

SamWhited: do you have gpg installed?

do we have any items for the meeting this week?

time for board meeting?

yea

XSF Board Meeting| Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

0. Welcome + Agenda

Hi all. Who do we have?

Here

Ahoy

dwd: minutes?

ralphm, Yes, I'll do them.

why not hours?

hours is only when the meeting runs over 120 minutes.

nyco, I'm hoping it won't take that long.

MattJ ?

Here

I see we should clean up our Trello Board

Let's spell out what we want to discuss today here.

I don't have any items for today.

Unless we want to discuss PyCon

I'd like to remind the Board of the removal of deprecated software process.

Meetups

arc: sure we can

+1 Ge0rG

I'd like to (re)raise the boring task of collecting money from sponsors

Guus's calendar, yea

Aye

1. Sponsors and FOSDEM financial resolution

Ge0rG, is it a Board task? I feel we agree we should "do something", but is it a Board duty?

I have a big todo on this for my expenses and money we got from the sales at FOSDEM

I still need to get reimbursed for the dinner

does that get sent to PSA?

I haven't collected or filed my expenses

So let's all send that PSA

nyco: I've sent a proposal mail to board@ last week, as was asked in the last board meeting. And I think there is also the issue of iteam-vs-website

I'll hit up stpeter on this and the Executive Director stuff hopefully this week

Ge0rG: ah. So your message was probably killed, as it is automoderated.

Hmm

ok, we got the agenda?

nyco: we already started

oops

We're at Sponsors and FOSDEM

yep, thx

I also have a message from MattJ in my inbox

So I'll try to get this all resolved Real Soon Now™

Great. If you need help with stuff, shout

Can everyone else with expenses send his information to stpeter?

MattJ: ok

2. Deprecation

So Ge0rG, I think your message got lost in moderation

Can you resend it to the Members list instead?

https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt is the draft

Ah

There are two "TODO"s in it, one is to have a fallback contact (the iteam vs. website debate from Board meeting), the other is changing the example URL after https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278 is merged.

The reference commit was rewritten since, new URL is https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278/commits/ca54e6846163d69ded7cb5f2d20bedc649b1fbd0

I'd like the signoff to be personal. Otherwise, it looks fine to me.

ralphm: obviously, I can't sign it with any official role (except for "XSF member")

You can sign it with your name, we asked you to do this

ralphm: I wasn't sure if I was the one to send it. If I am, I'll sign it as "Georg Lukas, on behalf of the XSF Board"

Sounds good.

+1

Kev: would you be ok with iteam as manually performing these updates?

MattJ, nyco, Martin agreed, too?

yeah, sure, let's do this

Sounds fine to me +1

Yes, sounds good

is there an official way to approach iteam?

Great. So let

"ask in jdev@"? ✏

I guess it is not enough, but that's just me, can't argue, I don't see the future, at least that will have some effect

's asynchronously wait on Kev's response and then send it off afterwards

ralphm: it also blocks on #278

ralphm: Mix #278 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/278

sorry, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278

I've had a look into the PR and it seems fine with me, but I have no rights to deploy anything on the website.

(nor a clue about how to do it)

Since it has been 6 days, I'm sure Guus can merge it now

3. PyCon

arc?

so we all know when it is, right?

we have the booth. we need to start gathering materials to do it well

and any "demo" type stuff. ideally things we can reuse at other conferences, and any larger items like beanbags that we can store state-side

Can you make a list at the wiki?

We also need to invoke SCAM for this

I can put some of my ideas on the wiki, certainly

SCAM?

ah, yea the new WG

right

yeah, is SCAM clearly defined and understood by all?

I've been meaning to ask what that means for weeks

arc, When is PyCon (useful to put in the minutes)

May 17-25. The booth will only be on May 18, 19, and 20

We probably need to write a charter, read XEP, for SCAM

21-25 will be the sprints, which I'd like to get enough of us there to run a sprints table

Sorry, that was me asking: what is SCAM?

there is still a free PyCon pass available for an XSF member who can make it and is willing to help out with the booth

SamWhited: Summits, Conferences, And Meetups

Summits, Conferences, And Meetups

thanks

and is the SCAM WG official?

who's on it?

I think we voted for having it. We didn't actually specify it.

after FOSDEM we talked about needing a WG to help with these, since a majority of the prep workload too often falls on 1-2 people

This is a great time to get the WG organized, though.

I'd rather have it emerge bottom-up, rather that design top-down

You don't have to actually be going to PyCon to help get stuff ready for it.

So actually, we decided it to be a Work Team, not a SIG

so it doesn't require a XEP

personally, I said I could engage and commit some work, given we have a real team, committed as well

yeah, the lightweight version good! ;-)

So, I think an action point is to actually put people on it

Yea that'd be a good start.

I'll volunteer

sounds like nyco did as well

rather listen to people and see if there is interest... and encourage/coach/push them a little, as a kickoff

arc, not without a team

the commteam was not really a team

I think its easier to get a group started when there's a concrete project to start with and non-arbitrary deadlines

I'd be happy to be on it, too.

agree

good

PyCon seems like a good starting project

so arc yuo do a meetup in NYC, ralph you do a meetup in Amsterdam, I do Paris and Krakow... next? ;-)

Having non-Board members on it, seems like a good thing

ralphm, yep, members, even non-members is fine for me

nyco: im moving to Portland very soon, where Portland is being hosted this year

nyco: we decided on it being members-only

arc, Portland is being hosted in Portland?

dwd: PyCon is being hosted in Portland

See minutes of our 2017-02-08 meeting

for the Paris meetup next Tuesday, we'll start super lightweight: we have only two subjects of discussion... no presentation/slidedeck, no workshop, no nothing fancy

dwd: sorry

arc, :-)

dwd, yep

ok. We need to continue this another time

Let the minutes reflect that member volunteers for this Work Team are welcome

I'll send a mail out to members@ to solicit volunteres for the WG

Thanks

and please, let's sync/centralise/distribute/promote all the content that we produce and present during these meetups

I see that nyco is chairing the Work Team

because now, everything is lost on Meetup.com, proprietary platform

small FYI: I've updated https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt with the remarks from the meeting, only open thing is the website PR.

ralphm, I got a chair, yes... but that's it

4. AOB

I didn't see any

chocolate

5. Date of Next

that's another business

+1W

+1W

+1W. Note that coming weekend is DST switchover in EU, thus also the meeting time

cool, thx all!

6. Close.

Thanks!

our DST was a few weeks ago ;-)

thanks ralphm

ralphm, Wait - you saying the next meeting is anchored in UTC or EU local?

dwd: UTC

its changing for EU folks next week

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

it changed for US folks a few weeks ago

arc, Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what time to write in the minutes.

last year our meetings were fixed to EU daylight savings, which caused the meeting time to change 4 times a year vs just 2

dwd: UTC.

That would make us overlap with Council?

Council also does UTC, I read in the minutes

Indeed.

Oh, so we do too

https://twitter.com/nyconyco/status/844602749945831424

nyco, Already has been created, technically - it was in the minutes and everything.

I was not even aware of that...

I mean I did not realise we decided

Guus: good to see you back, could you please merge https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278

I assumed it was still "under thoughts"

I have just updated both the upcoming Council and Board meetings to UTC (they were fixed on London time) in the sparklin' new shared Calendar.

good, anyway, I'll start collecting the slidedecks from all the recent meetups, so that we put them everywhere for the world to see, like SlideShare, LinkedIn, etc. and of course, our blog, and the authors blog(s)

Ge0rG: done.

okay, so https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/commit/8724430ff702bab98865ef2338cd392c277a71ee is the final commit hash? jonasw?

Ge0rG: if you don’t want me to change the commit-id to reflect potential future diff-ish output of the tool (which I haven’t done yet), and nobody rebases the branch instead of merging, I think so.

I rebase/merged it.

jonasw: it's in the master branch now. ✏

oh

then it is fixed ;-)

(not sure what commit Ge0rG was referring to)

Guus: I need a reference to the example commit for https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt

Ge0rG: if it is in the master branch, I cannot change the commitid anyways, so I’m not sure why you’re asking :)

jonasw: I'm double-checking.

ah

Ge0rG: I'd simply refer to the README at https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/tree/master/data

Ge0rG: Type upper-case yes: YES

Guus: it’s for the example commit which shows how a change looks

(I hope)

yes, that's the intent

Ge0rG: in your current draft, [2] points to master

not to the readme

jonasw: [2] is the repository

so the README has two pages of instructions, but still, we need something else? Either that's untrue, or we need to update the README :)

jonasw: just clarified the wording

hm, I’d rather link the readme instead of the commit

maybe we can link the commit in the readme

and the readme in the commit.

that commit doesn’t contain any readme

(and we cannot change the commit message anymore)

https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt - there, I changed it: > If you have an entry in one of the lists, please create a pull request as desribed in [1] before the 1st of May 2017. An example commit can be found in [2]. Software that is not updated until that date will be automatically removed from the listing.

I'm waiting on a green light from Kev and send the mail tomorrow

:)

Wait, that better not require github interaction

Zash: github or jdev@ interaction

so just like before to get your software added to the list