-
jonasw
lovetox: once sent and once received, in a twisted, technical, non-UX-oriented way it makes sense.
-
Zash
Does the Prosody one do that?
-
Ge0rG
I'm pondering about writing an XEP for clients to properly handle message-to-self situation. I was thinking about using the 'sent' carbon, but with MAM it's getting blurry
-
Ge0rG
It's just that I don't have a MAM implementation yet
-
nyco
BING! Meetup in Paris next week!
-
nyco
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups
-
nyco
https://twitter.com/JabberFR/status/844555149276319744
-
Tobias
great..will reweet that on the xmpp account
-
Tobias
*retweet
-
nyco
thx! ;-)
-
Tobias
Flow, when does the IoT SIG usally meet?
-
Flow
Tobias: There is no scheduled next meeting.
-
nyco
is there room in all the countries for other XMPP/Jabber Meetups?
-
nyco
Netherlands, maybe?
-
Tobias
Flow, would be nice to set one up to discuss the IEEE IoT and XMPP IoT strategy, including some council presence
-
Flow
Tobias: I suggest contacting Rikard
-
Tobias
ok
-
arc
any perseus admins here?
-
Tobias
maybe
-
arc
just wondering if you know where the observatory frontend code lives on here
-
Tobias
uff..no... intosi might know that
-
arc
ok how about, how are vdomains configured on here
-
arc
im not finding the things id expect in /etc/apache2 or /etc/nginx
-
intosi
In the nginx config.
-
arc
ah there it is, ok. i was looking in sites-enabled, didnt notice the vdomains
-
arc
i havent used nginx for a very long time
-
intosi
I think you'll find the observatory code at https://bitbucket.org/xnyhps/xmppoke-frontend
-
Tobias
i thought everybody was using it nowadays :)
-
arc
/var/www/vhosts/xmpp.net
-
arc
Tobias: i might be, if I had not interviewed for a job with them
-
jonasw
… until they find that nginx cannot into && or nested ifs
-
arc
their CEO is a former rugby teammate of mine, Gus. I'm not working for them because they don't allow employees to work on FOSS projects outside of work without explicit permission
-
intosi
Tobias: depends on the server. I have machines running nginx and lighttpd, but the majority is apache.
-
arc
so I don't consider nginx a valid FOSS project anymore.
-
moparisthebest
It seems to depend on how long it's been since you've set up the server :)
-
moparisthebest
originally I used apache, then changed to lighttpd, now everything runs nginx
-
intosi
Some of these servers go back almost 20 years.
-
arc
i know nginx is just now getting dynamically loaded modules but doesn't have a stable module api; that's another perk of Apache
-
arc
though honestly in the end it shouldn't really matter, everything should be containerized anyway
-
arc
apache httpd is falling behind in the area of http/2.0, its implemented through loaded modules but not nearly as well supported as core
-
arc
and apache2's websocket support is still tack-on requiring a bit of a hack with the i/o filters
-
moparisthebest
yea arc at least currently nginx is first with support for everything
-
arc
I'll give you that. But its always easier when your design is primarily monolithic and centralized, employed developers
-
moparisthebest
especially ones banned from writing other code right arc ? :P
-
Zash
How can that be legal?
-
jonasw
Zash: freedomland probably
-
moparisthebest
Zash, I suppose it's just a regular contract right?
-
SamWhited
It's probably not, depending on where they're headquartered.
-
moparisthebest
either way no one who wants to keep that job is going to sue them over it
-
SamWhited
But yah, what moparisthebest said; doesn't matter if it's unenforceable, chances are most people won't take legal action if they get fired.
-
Zash
Weird and broken
-
jonasw
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/
-
jonasw
that at least gave me an idea why the heck you’d want to do that, aside from pure evilness
-
moparisthebest
hmm arc didn't you say nginx was in california? if that article is to be believed they have a law against that
-
SamWhited
California definitely has a law against that; doesn't stop people from doing it unless someone challenges them though.
-
moparisthebest
right, that'd be enough to at least make me feel comfortable they couldn't steal my unrelated work
-
Ge0rG
where I live, nobody can steal my copyright.
-
moparisthebest
Ge0rG, your employer doesn't own what you write for them?
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: copyright is a personal right in Germany. You can't give it away, you can merely grant exclusive distribution rights
-
Zash
Ge0rG: Here that applies to all works of art, except code.
-
Ge0rG
Zash: this is because most code is not art.
-
SamWhited
Code is just zeros and ones, so obviously it's not a work of art. It just happens.
-
mathieui
in most countries the fact that your employer can’t deprive you of your copyright doesn’t mean that they can’t lawyer you into oblivion for this anyway
-
moparisthebest
so Ge0rG what stops you from working at a company, writing some critical code, quitting or being fired, then 'revoking distribution rights' ?
-
mathieui
(also I found the joel article really bad)
-
moparisthebest
the first non-self-employed programming job I had was contracting, they had a clause like this, when I asked about it they said "oh you mean like writing code for the linux kernel?" I said "something like that" they said "oh we use linux all the time so that's fine" I really needed the job so I didn't argue
-
moparisthebest
my current job is just in-house software for a medical company, they don't produce software, so they don't have any clause like this
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: there are bounds to what is admissible in contracts between employers and employees, and if either side bends the contract too much, there are courts
-
moparisthebest
I got a job offer in between that had a clause like this, I said it wasn't acceptable, they said people say that all the time and removed it no questions asked...
-
jonasw
moparisthebest: I don’t think you can revoke those rights after you signed to pass them.
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: I'm pretty sure that "all your code belong to us" is illegal in DE, and thus that clause will have no effect
-
SamWhited
It doesn't matter if it has an effect or not if you get sued and don't have the time or money to deal with lawyers.
-
moparisthebest
I think laws kind of protect you some ways, I'd still much rather have a clear contract without that bad clause though
-
moparisthebest
because like SamWhited said I don't have lawyers or time or money to fight lawsuits against huge companies
-
jonasw
moparisthebest: if it isn’t legal in $country, reasonable employers won’t have such a clause :-)
-
jonasw
(and if they have and insist on having it, I would worry about other things wrong in that company)
-
moparisthebest
jonasw, it's not legal in california apparantly and they still do
-
Ge0rG
I have a clause in my contract that I need permission from my boss to do other jobs (which is illegal, I only need to inform them), and he spoiled my christmas party because my photo gallery is on a .pro domain and it might be a side business.
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: ugh
-
moparisthebest
how did he spoil it?
-
Ge0rG
not sure if he tried to be funny or just mean, but he proposed paying me photographer wage instead of itsec wage if this is what I want to do.
-
moparisthebest
sounds like an asshole haha
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: my contractual obligations forbid me to comment on that .P
-
moparisthebest
yea I'd encourage you not to either way :)
-
arc
moparisthebest: there isn't a law in California against an employer stopping you from working on things on your own time. The law is that your employer cannot claim ownership of IP you develop while employed, worked on in your own time and on your own equipment.
-
Ge0rG
you better not respond to github tickets from your business-owned phone
-
arc
some employers such as Google go so far as purchasing special pens with chemically doped inks so that any documents written with their pens can be challeged later to be Google's IP, since their equipment was used
-
moparisthebest
seriously? that sounds like a joke
-
moparisthebest
I hope it's a joke...
-
Ge0rG
joke day is next week
-
arc
its not a joke, ive had 3 googlers warning me about the gift pens
-
arc
im not and will never be an employee
-
arc
there was apparently a court case where this was disclosed; two former employees who left to do a startup doing something similar to what they were doing at Google, and Google claimed they developed it with company property.
-
intosi
If they're gifting the pens, doesn't that undermine their claim that anything written with them might be Google IP?
-
arc
the key part is Google demanded original documents, not copies
-
arc
"gifting" is the question here. they're office supplies freely available.
-
Ge0rG
maybe they are only doing that to prevent Googlers from stealing office supplies?
-
arc
in any case, these are the kind of bullshit talked about in the bay area. bigger than this tho, Google's employment contract forbids it and violating it is terms for immediate firing
-
arc
i dont think any google needs to steal pens. they're not even that nice of pens.
-
Ge0rG
I also like the other explanation, it totally fits the "don't be evil" stance.
-
Ge0rG
arc: any chance you can dig up the court case?
-
arc
i was just looknig for it but all im finding at the moment is the case for the "stolen IP" cases with apple and uber
-
arc
google is constantly in these kind of lawsuits
-
moparisthebest
this is part of the reason I haven't looked for a new better paying job
-
moparisthebest
no way I'm writing healthcare industry software in my spare time, so I'm pretty much good no matter what
-
Ge0rG
I just wanted to say "we are hiring" but that christmas party story probably spoiled it now.
-
moparisthebest
Ge0rG, do you hire remote workers from USA ? hehe
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: haven't tried yet. I'm a remote worker 450km away, and I'm working from home 90% of the time, and visting customers for the other 10%
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: no idea if we can compete with west coast wages though.
-
moparisthebest
I'm in the middle so I don't nearly compete with west coast wages either :)
-
arc
geesus, google quietly ended their 20% policy in 2013?
-
moparisthebest
but it works out because my housing/living expenses is 1/4 of west coast costs too
-
Ge0rG
OTOH I can imagine some logistical challenges. 100% of our customers are German.
-
moparisthebest
I know how to count to 10 in german... :)
-
mathieui
I managed to survive three CCCongresses and two CCCamps, does it count towards knowing german?
-
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: that won't suffice. you need to be able to count at least to our daily rate.
- Ge0rG remembers a bunch of New Yorkers, visting CCCongress in Berlin, waiting at a red traffic light at 3AM... it was very bizarre
-
arc
completely off topic, any tips for cooking eggs in cast iron, beside seasoning it obsessively?
-
arc
Ge0rG: in the US, cops sit with their lights off in the middle of the night waiting for people to run red lights. that's why.
-
Ge0rG
arc: the next-best idea that comes to my mind is to make omelette by breaking the eggs into a zipper bag and cooking it
-
Ge0rG
arc: in NYC?
-
moparisthebest
I once set a frozen porkchop on fire in a cast iron skillet, frozen porkchops are very flammable fyi
-
arc
Ge0rG: everywhere. cops in the US have quotas for tickets.
-
Ge0rG
I've experienced both NYC and Berlin as cities where nobody looks for the lights
-
SamWhited
arc: I don't think that's true, lots of my Google friends still have 20% time. Maybe a specific team got rid of it or something
-
arc
they're left to their own devices to come up with ways to ticket people.
-
arc
SamWhited: https://qz.com/115831/googles-20-time-which-brought-you-gmail-and-adsense-is-now-as-good-as-dead/
-
mathieui
Ge0rG, last time I jaywalked in switzerland people were looking at me like they wanted to murder me
-
mathieui
I am now careful of doing so in foreign countries
-
arc
i actually do kindof remember this, employees talking about "120% time". now managers have to approve, rather than it being a right everyone had (usually every friday), and most managers set goals to 100% of your time so you can only work on your personal projects if you're ahead of schedule
-
Zash
mathieui: I found that it's fine in Brussels as long as you appear confident enough while walking
-
arc
one of my friends who works as a SRE said his manager uses the 20% time as a "reward" for being on schedule, but then increases your workload after you do it since you've clearly demonstrated that you can.
-
Zash
More work as reward for working?
-
arc
yea, why I put it in quotes.
-
arc
when Google went public, a lot of things changed. Growth demanded managers started getting hired from other industries, and the corporate culture changed drastically.
-
Zash
Better than getting fired because there's not enough work to do I suppose.
-
mathieui
the niceties of corporate culture
-
arc
googler are smarter than that. they create more work for themselves by constantly throwing away old projects and creating new, incompatible products
-
arc
why do you think they've gone through 4 IM standards in 7 years
-
Zash
Reinventing the wheel and NIH is so much fun!
-
SamWhited
Maybe that's just what happens when you go public; I have seen other companies engineering culture go to shit as soon as they went public (although it was not clear if that was actually the cause)… will not name names for… reasons.
-
arc
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware
-
arc
this is making me sad.
-
Zash
... tractors with firmware?
-
arc
all tractors have firmware now
-
arc
this was the central point of the "right to repair" bills
-
Zash
That's completely alien to me
-
moparisthebest
yea that's some ridiculous stuff
-
intosi
All cars have firmware these days, too.
-
moparisthebest
cars are the same
-
arc
John Deere is spending millions on lobbying to stop these bills because they dont want farmers to be able to hack their own tractors
- Ge0rG is driving a 2016 car, it's full of electronics... and has a GPL license hidden in the radio menu
-
moparisthebest
cars don't even just have computers now, they have computer networks, an engine computer (sometimes multiple), a transmission computer, a computer for everything else, networked across an insecure network, which is fine, until some moron plugs an internet connected radio into it...
-
moparisthebest
:'(
-
arc
ive been reading tons of complaints by farmers claiming their tractors have a software-based kill switch that cause them to shut down if regular maintenance isnt performed in time or if they've surpassed their lifespan
-
arc
how much of that is paranoia, vs how much is a conspiracy by the corporation, is anyone's guess.
-
arc
but on a political side its *just enough* of an edge to get broad popular support
-
Ge0rG
arc: dongling of tractor components is less far-fetched than chemical marking of ink
-
Ge0rG
printer manufacturers are doing it for decades now
-
arc
yea that's true, but about the "kill switch"
-
moparisthebest
this is why I'm keeping my 1952 tractor and never buying a newer car, I've even just recently convinced my wife :)
-
arc
farmers claiming their regular service lights go on, and they have 30 days before the tractors simple won't start anymore. some left stranded in the field.
-
Ge0rG
arc: I expect this to happen from a company that requires farmers to sign license contracts on sold tractors.
-
ralphm
I remember when this channel was more on topic.
-
arc
farmers complaints are being treated as backwoods hicks conspiracy theories tho
-
arc
ralphm: we're... orbiting... the topic.
-
Zash
http://memecrunch.com/meme/133R9/pepperidge-farm-remembers/image.png
-
ralphm
No, it seems there's more and more of these discussion in this room, and I want it gone.
-
ralphm
But maybe that's just me
-
moparisthebest
ralphm, the tractors probably use xmpp for the company to remotely shut them down?
-
moparisthebest
personally I don't see it interrupting actual on-topic discussion, if it did then I'd agree it's a problem
-
arc
hey *IM* working on xmpp stuff right now ;-)
-
Kev
ralphm: It's not just you. This window flashes and I try to read it (now or later) to catch up on important XMPP discussions. People talking about tractors and Christmas parties is just wasting my time.
-
Kev
I'm happy to make another room on the server for people to have OT chats if they want them.
-
ralphm
moparisthebest: I do. When I scroll back in this channel, I don't want to search XSF or XMPP related stuff with a magnifying glass. I am also not interested in philosophical debates about the evilness of Google services or licensing choices. In this venue.
-
dwd
Kev, +1.
-
Zash
Have we come to the point where we need an OT room?
-
Kev
Zash: I don't care one way or the other, I'd just like in here to be less woefully offtopic.
-
mathieui
(can agree on the OT thing, even if I am sometimes actively contributing to it)
- jonasw proposes xsf-leisure@, if we really need it
-
mathieui
Zash, well, it *does* make backlogging more of a pain when you want to focus on XMPP stuff
-
Ge0rG
splitting out off-topic discussions won't work. Forbidding them probably will, but it might not be a good idea nevertheless.
-
jonasw
I am running out of horizontal space for conversation tabs, so -1 ;-)
-
Zash
Figure out how to to smarter threading
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: I'd be happy to mandate and enforce this.
-
moparisthebest
I find it easy to scroll through, I don't care either way, I'd suggest making the topic clearer on the subject though, ie offtopic conversations forbidden or whatever
-
mathieui
Ge0rG, I have seen a few communities where splitting out off-topic discussions work quite well
-
Zash
ralphm: You /are/ the moderator, you have the power. :)
-
jonasw
I’ve seen it work more-or-less okay-ish
-
ralphm
The topic in this room is very clear. Most clients display it: "XSF Discussion"
-
SamWhited
Ooh, relevant XMPP UI consideration: horizontal tabs are a bad idea, because scroll doesn't work or doesn't feel as natural. New IM products mostly have a vertical room/chat selection thing for a reason.
-
jonasw
if moderators throw "ECHAN" at anyone going off-topic
-
moparisthebest
it doesn't say "Only XSF Discussion"
-
jonasw
SamWhited: tell that to pidgin.
-
Ge0rG
mathieui: it would require everybody interested in off-topic discussions to join a different MUC, which nobody will do voluntarily
-
Zash
SamWhited: Tell Kev & Tobias :)
-
mathieui
moparisthebest, it’s less "offtopic conversations are forbidden" than "when we feel we are drifting offtopic, the conversation should move"
-
ralphm
Like so?
-
SamWhited
Kev and Tobias! ⤴
-
SamWhited
(but yah, this is one reason I stopped using Gajim and Swift)
-
arc
what could be done MIX-wise to manage discussions with threads?
-
Kev
Zash: Swift does have a vertical list as well, and it predates most other people starting to do that thing ;)
-
mathieui
SamWhited, gajim has vertical tabs
-
Ge0rG
mIRC had an option to make a vertical list.
-
SamWhited
Oh, nifty, I'll have to try and find it and see
-
Tobias
vertical tabs? with rotated label text?
-
mathieui
(it’s hidden in the ACE)
-
SamWhited
Heh, oops, I mean a list, of course, not "vertical tabs"
-
Kev
SamWhited: Look at the "Chats" list in Swift.
-
ralphm
Hmm, does Conversation shows people being kicked?
-
Ge0rG
Would it make sense to show kicked people, but not other presence changes?
-
ralphm
Yes
-
SamWhited
Kev: Ah, I see; I didn't actually understand that I could use that to switch between existing chats in my huge tabs that all start with a single letter and then '…'
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: but then you also need to show when that evil person comes back
-
SamWhited
It also shows every other random room I have bookmarked though, even stuff I don't actually have open, so it's not all that useful unless I dig to find things
-
jonasw
SamWhited: pidgin at least has scrolling, which is slightly useful; it only makes you miss anything from tabs which are currently not visible >.>
-
Kev
SamWhited: It shows things with recent activity on top, which does the job for me most of the time, combined with M-a.
-
SamWhited
Kev: Oh, I see, I was still confused; it shows bookmarked rooms separate from recent chats
-
Ge0rG
I wish I could try out swift...
-
Tobias
we need to make these shortcuts more discoverable
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, you could if you wouldn't use sid :P
-
SamWhited
I was looking at the bottom thinking that was rooms, and the top thinkin that was chats (not noticing that the first thing was this room)
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: I tried to install the ubuntu .deb, but it also depends on boost 1.58 from half a year ago
-
Tobias
i tested installing on 16.04 and Jessie...what ubuntu did you try?
-
SamWhited
Either way, having the horizontal tabs list is rather useless and confusing; I have no idea what room "m…" is.
-
jonasw
sid <3
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: the funniest thing is, I have half of the boost packages installed on my machine. but only half of them
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: none. I just added the ubuntu repo to sid
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: I don't care that much about that. But I'm sure it is an interesting UX concept on how to deal with occupants being kicked.
-
ralphm
Also curious about what that looks like in MIX
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, and expected that to work?
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: yes, it often works.
- SamWhited wonders why he gets booted from all IETF rooms any time he joins with a second client
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: MIX will probably have much more static participant lists, as opposed to MUC
-
ralphm
Not probably
-
ralphm
But that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to kick people.
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: most of the MUCs I'm in contain pages and pages of presence changes.
-
ralphm
If only as a gesture.
- ralphm kicks Ge0rG
-
ralphm
See. So satisfying
-
Zash
Does kicking even make sense in MIX?
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: sure it is.
-
Steve Kille
In MIX you change participation, so there is no longer a need for an explicit Kick
-
Tobias
SamWhited, because it runs an old ejabberd version?
-
Ge0rG
Steve Kille: but people will want to have an explicit kick, because it's satisfying
-
ralphm
Steve Kille: from a techical standpoint, maybe.
-
SamWhited
oh boy, sounds like fun; I keep meaning to see what they're sending me or what's actually going wrong.
-
Ge0rG
I've been kicking people for over 20 years now, we can't simply remove that from MIX. Nobody will use it without kicks!1!
-
SamWhited
gajim only actually joined a handful of my bookmarks with auto join set, so I guess that's one way to make sure there aren't too many tabs open…
-
ralphm
SamWhited: works for me
-
arc
who's here for the meeting
-
SamWhited
huh; gajim also freezes for ~3 seconds any time I do almost anyting (eg. hit "ok" on adding a new account), so I'm assuming something about my system is just borked
-
Ge0rG
SamWhited: do you have gpg installed?
-
arc
do we have any items for the meeting this week?
-
nyco
time for board meeting?
-
arc
yea
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Board Meeting| Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
-
ralphm
Hi all. Who do we have?
-
arc
Here
-
Martin
Ahoy
-
ralphm
dwd: minutes?
-
dwd
ralphm, Yes, I'll do them.
-
nyco
why not hours?
-
arc
hours is only when the meeting runs over 120 minutes.
-
dwd
nyco, I'm hoping it won't take that long.
-
ralphm
MattJ ?
-
MattJ
Here
-
ralphm
I see we should clean up our Trello Board
-
ralphm
Let's spell out what we want to discuss today here.
-
arc
I don't have any items for today.
-
arc
Unless we want to discuss PyCon
-
Ge0rG
I'd like to remind the Board of the removal of deprecated software process.
-
nyco
Meetups
-
ralphm
arc: sure we can
-
arc
+1 Ge0rG
-
MattJ
I'd like to (re)raise the boring task of collecting money from sponsors
-
arc
Guus's calendar, yea
-
ralphm
Aye
-
ralphm
1. Sponsors and FOSDEM financial resolution
-
nyco
Ge0rG, is it a Board task? I feel we agree we should "do something", but is it a Board duty?
-
ralphm
I have a big todo on this for my expenses and money we got from the sales at FOSDEM
-
arc
I still need to get reimbursed for the dinner
-
arc
does that get sent to PSA?
-
ralphm
I haven't collected or filed my expenses
-
ralphm
So let's all send that PSA
-
Ge0rG
nyco: I've sent a proposal mail to board@ last week, as was asked in the last board meeting. And I think there is also the issue of iteam-vs-website
-
ralphm
I'll hit up stpeter on this and the Executive Director stuff hopefully this week
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: ah. So your message was probably killed, as it is automoderated.
-
ralphm
Hmm
-
nyco
ok, we got the agenda?
-
ralphm
nyco: we already started
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nyco
oops
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ralphm
We're at Sponsors and FOSDEM
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nyco
yep, thx
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ralphm
I also have a message from MattJ in my inbox
-
ralphm
So I'll try to get this all resolved Real Soon Now™
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MattJ
Great. If you need help with stuff, shout
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ralphm
Can everyone else with expenses send his information to stpeter?
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ralphm
MattJ: ok
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ralphm
2. Deprecation
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ralphm
So Ge0rG, I think your message got lost in moderation
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ralphm
Can you resend it to the Members list instead?
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Ge0rG
https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt is the draft
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ralphm
Ah
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Ge0rG
There are two "TODO"s in it, one is to have a fallback contact (the iteam vs. website debate from Board meeting), the other is changing the example URL after https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278 is merged.
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Ge0rG
The reference commit was rewritten since, new URL is https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278/commits/ca54e6846163d69ded7cb5f2d20bedc649b1fbd0
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ralphm
I'd like the signoff to be personal. Otherwise, it looks fine to me.
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Ge0rG
ralphm: obviously, I can't sign it with any official role (except for "XSF member")
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ralphm
You can sign it with your name, we asked you to do this
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Ge0rG
ralphm: I wasn't sure if I was the one to send it. If I am, I'll sign it as "Georg Lukas, on behalf of the XSF Board"
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ralphm
Sounds good.
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arc
+1
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ralphm
Kev: would you be ok with iteam as manually performing these updates?
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ralphm
MattJ, nyco, Martin agreed, too?
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nyco
yeah, sure, let's do this
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Martin
Sounds fine to me +1
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MattJ
Yes, sounds good
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Ge0rG
is there an official way to approach iteam?
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ralphm
Great. So let
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Ge0rG
ask in jdev@✎ -
Ge0rG
"ask in jdev@"? ✏
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nyco
I guess it is not enough, but that's just me, can't argue, I don't see the future, at least that will have some effect
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ralphm
's asynchronously wait on Kev's response and then send it off afterwards
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Ge0rG
ralphm: it also blocks on #278
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Bunneh
ralphm: Mix #278 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/278
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Ge0rG
sorry, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278
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Ge0rG
I've had a look into the PR and it seems fine with me, but I have no rights to deploy anything on the website.
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Ge0rG
(nor a clue about how to do it)
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ralphm
Since it has been 6 days, I'm sure Guus can merge it now
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ralphm
3. PyCon
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ralphm
arc?
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arc
so we all know when it is, right?
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arc
we have the booth. we need to start gathering materials to do it well
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arc
and any "demo" type stuff. ideally things we can reuse at other conferences, and any larger items like beanbags that we can store state-side
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ralphm
Can you make a list at the wiki?
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ralphm
We also need to invoke SCAM for this
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arc
I can put some of my ideas on the wiki, certainly
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arc
SCAM?
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arc
ah, yea the new WG
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ralphm
right
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nyco
yeah, is SCAM clearly defined and understood by all?
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SamWhited
I've been meaning to ask what that means for weeks
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dwd
arc, When is PyCon (useful to put in the minutes)
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arc
May 17-25. The booth will only be on May 18, 19, and 20
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ralphm
We probably need to write a charter, read XEP, for SCAM
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arc
21-25 will be the sprints, which I'd like to get enough of us there to run a sprints table
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SamWhited
Sorry, that was me asking: what is SCAM?
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arc
there is still a free PyCon pass available for an XSF member who can make it and is willing to help out with the booth
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arc
SamWhited: Summits, Conferences, And Meetups
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ralphm
Summits, Conferences, And Meetups
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SamWhited
thanks
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nyco
and is the SCAM WG official?
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nyco
who's on it?
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ralphm
I think we voted for having it. We didn't actually specify it.
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arc
after FOSDEM we talked about needing a WG to help with these, since a majority of the prep workload too often falls on 1-2 people
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arc
This is a great time to get the WG organized, though.
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nyco
I'd rather have it emerge bottom-up, rather that design top-down
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arc
You don't have to actually be going to PyCon to help get stuff ready for it.
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ralphm
So actually, we decided it to be a Work Team, not a SIG
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ralphm
so it doesn't require a XEP
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nyco
personally, I said I could engage and commit some work, given we have a real team, committed as well
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nyco
yeah, the lightweight version good! ;-)
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ralphm
So, I think an action point is to actually put people on it
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arc
Yea that'd be a good start.
-
arc
I'll volunteer
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arc
sounds like nyco did as well
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nyco
rather listen to people and see if there is interest... and encourage/coach/push them a little, as a kickoff
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nyco
arc, not without a team
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nyco
the commteam was not really a team
-
arc
I think its easier to get a group started when there's a concrete project to start with and non-arbitrary deadlines
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ralphm
I'd be happy to be on it, too.
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nyco
agree
-
nyco
good
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ralphm
PyCon seems like a good starting project
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nyco
so arc yuo do a meetup in NYC, ralph you do a meetup in Amsterdam, I do Paris and Krakow... next? ;-)
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ralphm
Having non-Board members on it, seems like a good thing
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nyco
ralphm, yep, members, even non-members is fine for me
-
arc
nyco: im moving to Portland very soon, where Portland is being hosted this year
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ralphm
nyco: we decided on it being members-only
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dwd
arc, Portland is being hosted in Portland?
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arc
dwd: PyCon is being hosted in Portland
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ralphm
See minutes of our 2017-02-08 meeting
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nyco
for the Paris meetup next Tuesday, we'll start super lightweight: we have only two subjects of discussion... no presentation/slidedeck, no workshop, no nothing fancy
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arc
dwd: sorry
-
dwd
arc, :-)
- dwd needs to start arranging another London one.
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nyco
dwd, yep
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ralphm
ok. We need to continue this another time
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ralphm
Let the minutes reflect that member volunteers for this Work Team are welcome
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arc
I'll send a mail out to members@ to solicit volunteres for the WG
-
ralphm
Thanks
-
nyco
and please, let's sync/centralise/distribute/promote all the content that we produce and present during these meetups
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ralphm
I see that nyco is chairing the Work Team
-
nyco
because now, everything is lost on Meetup.com, proprietary platform
-
Ge0rG
small FYI: I've updated https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt with the remarks from the meeting, only open thing is the website PR.
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nyco
ralphm, I got a chair, yes... but that's it
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ralphm
4. AOB
-
ralphm
I didn't see any
-
nyco
chocolate
-
ralphm
5. Date of Next
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nyco
that's another business
-
nyco
+1W
-
arc
+1W
-
ralphm
+1W. Note that coming weekend is DST switchover in EU, thus also the meeting time
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nyco
cool, thx all!
-
ralphm
6. Close.
-
ralphm
Thanks!
- ralphm bangs gavel
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arc
our DST was a few weeks ago ;-)
-
arc
thanks ralphm
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dwd
ralphm, Wait - you saying the next meeting is anchored in UTC or EU local?
-
arc
dwd: UTC
-
arc
its changing for EU folks next week
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
-
arc
it changed for US folks a few weeks ago
-
dwd
arc, Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what time to write in the minutes.
-
arc
last year our meetings were fixed to EU daylight savings, which caused the meeting time to change 4 times a year vs just 2
-
arc
dwd: UTC.
-
ralphm
That would make us overlap with Council?
-
Guus
Council also does UTC, I read in the minutes
-
dwd
Indeed.
-
ralphm
Oh, so we do too
-
nyco
https://twitter.com/nyconyco/status/844602749945831424
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dwd
nyco, Already has been created, technically - it was in the minutes and everything.
-
nyco
I was not even aware of that...
-
nyco
I mean I did not realise we decided
-
Ge0rG
Guus: good to see you back, could you please merge https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/278
-
nyco
I assumed it was still "under thoughts"
-
Guus
I have just updated both the upcoming Council and Board meetings to UTC (they were fixed on London time) in the sparklin' new shared Calendar.
-
nyco
good, anyway, I'll start collecting the slidedecks from all the recent meetups, so that we put them everywhere for the world to see, like SlideShare, LinkedIn, etc. and of course, our blog, and the authors blog(s)
-
Guus
Ge0rG: done.
-
Ge0rG
okay, so https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/commit/8724430ff702bab98865ef2338cd392c277a71ee is the final commit hash? jonasw?
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: if you don’t want me to change the commit-id to reflect potential future diff-ish output of the tool (which I haven’t done yet), and nobody rebases the branch instead of merging, I think so.
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Guus
I rebase/merged it.
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: it's in the master commit now.✎ -
Ge0rG
jonasw: it's in the master branch now. ✏
-
jonasw
oh
-
jonasw
then it is fixed ;-)
-
Guus
(not sure what commit Ge0rG was referring to)
-
Ge0rG
Guus: I need a reference to the example commit for https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: if it is in the master branch, I cannot change the commitid anyways, so I’m not sure why you’re asking :)
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I'm double-checking.
-
jonasw
ah
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Guus
Ge0rG: I'd simply refer to the README at https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/tree/master/data
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jonasw
Ge0rG: Type upper-case yes: YES
-
jonasw
Guus: it’s for the example commit which shows how a change looks
-
jonasw
(I hope)
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Ge0rG
yes, that's the intent
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: in your current draft, [2] points to master
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jonasw
not to the readme
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Ge0rG
jonasw: [2] is the repository
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Guus
so the README has two pages of instructions, but still, we need something else? Either that's untrue, or we need to update the README :)
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Ge0rG
jonasw: just clarified the wording
-
jonasw
hm, I’d rather link the readme instead of the commit
-
jonasw
maybe we can link the commit in the readme
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Ge0rG
and the readme in the commit.
-
jonasw
that commit doesn’t contain any readme
-
jonasw
(and we cannot change the commit message anymore)
-
Ge0rG
https://op-co.de/tmp/deprecation-mail.txt - there, I changed it: > If you have an entry in one of the lists, please create a pull request as desribed in [1] before the 1st of May 2017. An example commit can be found in [2]. Software that is not updated until that date will be automatically removed from the listing.
-
Ge0rG
I'm waiting on a green light from Kev and send the mail tomorrow
-
jonasw
:)
-
Zash
Wait, that better not require github interaction
-
jonasw
Zash: github or jdev@ interaction
-
jonasw
so just like before to get your software added to the list