XSF Discussion - 2017-09-18

  1. emxp

    Zash: no

  2. emxp

    at least not in countries who sort trash

  3. Guus

    oh, we do a lot of software listing here: https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html. Wasn't aware of that.

  4. Guus

    Not sure if this works well with the software listing we do under the 'software' menu

  5. Guus

    also not sure if we should change it, and if so, how.

  6. jonasw

    we can do more magic like I did for the team pages, but I feel a bit bad about what I did there already

  7. jonasw

    Guus, can you take a look from where https://xmpp.org/extensions/xmpp.css comes and make sure it comes from within the container? (or delegate to someone who knows how to in iteam)

  8. Guus

    not sure if we should do that here, but why did you feel bad about the tema stuff?

  9. jonasw

    Guus, because I did a | replace(...) on markup

  10. Guus

    jonasw: any reason to think that the xmpp.css does not compe from the extensions container?

  11. Guus

    can't immediately find rewrite rules that would cause it to serve from anywhere else

  12. jonasw

    it has been updated in the docker

  13. jonasw

    cf. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/511

  14. Guus

    dockerhub seems to have been triggered

  15. Guus

    perhaps it didn't deploy, let me check

  16. Guus

    hmm, it's set up to deploy automatically

  17. jonasw

    are you sure we don’t need explicit rewrite rules to get stuff from *inside* the container?

  18. jonasw

    I think I had to interact with iteam to get xeplist.xml to be visible outside the container

  19. Guus

    I'm quite new to this, so I'm not sure about anything :)

  20. Guus

    I just forced another update, which didn't seem to affect the output

  21. Guus

    so the issue does not appear to be caused by the github->dockerhub->server update mechanism.

  22. Guus

    the container config is here, by the way: https://github.com/xsf/xep-docker-base

  23. Guus

    most likely, there's a rewrite rule that I didn't find on my first check

  24. Guus

    (which was a simple grep)

  25. Guus

    let me check further

  26. Guus

    oh, /extensions/ isn't mapped to that repo for every resource that's under that address

  27. Guus

    location ~ ^/extensions/((xep-[0-9]*|xeps|rss|atom|prettify)\.(html|pdf|xml|js|css)|xep\.(ent|xsl|dtd)|xeplist.xml|inbox.+)$

  28. Guus

    "just" for that

  29. jonasw

    right :)

  30. jonasw

    adding a |xmpp\.css sounds reasonable

  31. jonasw

    (after inbox.+)

  32. Guus

    that's what I just did :)

  33. Guus

    how's that?

  34. jonasw

    yay \o/

  35. jonasw

    take a look yourself: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html

  36. Guus

    this does suggest that we have a duplicate for that css file somewhere

  37. jonasw


  38. Guus

    we should remove one of them

  39. jonasw

    kill it with fire

  40. Guus

    confused. https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/102415da28cad2dac9a2bb4c651d95932fec5f86/buildCompleteWebsite.sh#L64

  41. jonasw

    don’t think about that too much

  42. jonasw

    especially not about that sed line a bit below

  43. Guus

    Unsure wher the duplicate file is

  44. Guus

    I'm likely missing something obvious

  45. Guus

    but can't spend to much more time now.

  46. jonasw

    the duplicate file is most likely copied by that script

  47. Guus

    perhaps that copy can be removed from the script then?

  48. jonasw

    I think so

  49. Guus


  50. pep.

    Anybody knows is there's more than xmpp.jp in Japan?

  51. jonasw

    Guus, did I come across as if I was surprised / critizising the discussion?

  52. Guus

    no, just the venue :)

  53. jonasw

    yes, that was a bit my intention

  54. jonasw

    when you wrote to members@, I was surprised that you invited people to github actually

  55. Guus

    Well, that's where the various screenshots where. as well as a pre-existing discussion.

  56. Guus

    not that I've put a lot of thought behind it.

  57. Guus

    in retrospect, perhaps I shouldn't have assumed that everyone has a github account

  58. jonasw

    yah, I woudl have suggested to suggest to read on github and continue discussion on members@ for inclusivity

  59. jonasw

    every member is on members@, but not every member is on github

  60. jonasw

    (on the other hand, nobody complained)

  61. Guus

    I'll do that next time. To be honest, I didn't expect much discussion in the first place.

  62. jonasw

    I did (after I read the discussion on the old logo in the archives, I was confident that people will have strong opinions)

  63. Guus

    I suspect that most people don't care to much - it's a pretty small change.

  64. jonasw

    (which is why I suggested to notify members@ in the first place, at least I recall to have done so, but maybe I only planned and then you did on your own, dunno)

  65. Guus

    someone did, might've been you :)

  66. Kev

    I think Board is the right place. They can ask members or not, as they wish.

  67. Kev

    It was Board who commissioned the current logo.

  68. Ge0rG

    But it was a previous board, not the current one.

  69. Guus

    it's the entity, not the persons, that matter. If not, we'd have to revisit everything each time a new board is installed.

  70. intosi

    Ge0rG: I'm not sure how that matters.

  71. Ge0rG

    On rereading, I try to understand what exactly Board is the right place to do? To design which of the three logo variants to use?

  72. Ge0rG

    On rereading, I try to understand what exactly Board is the right place to do? To decide which of the three logo variants to use?

  73. Guus

    I'll suggest to Board to accept the logo improvement as suggested by me in the PR

  74. SouL


  75. Guus

    actually, is anyone from Board here (or anyone that can add this to Trello)? The Board meetings are at a very inconvenient time for me.

  76. jonasw doesn’t have +w

  77. Guus

    Martin, MattJ, nyco show 'available' in my presence list :) Can any of you please add a Trello card to the Board Trello collection: "Descide wether to accept logo improvement as provided in https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/363 "?

  78. Kev

    s/improvement/change/ :)

  79. Guus

    Hey, I went from 'fix' to 'improvement' :D

  80. Guus

    _just for you_ ;)

  81. SouL


  82. Zash

    Can we go deeper? How neutral can you word that?

  83. Guus

    Zash: yes, we probably can. No, I won't.

  84. dwd

    "Are Board foolish enough to reject the magnificent improvement as provided in [...]"

  85. Guus

    dwd, :) and - do you still have access to the board trello thingy? I've given up on board picking up my topics from the mailing list.

  86. intosi

    dwd: an overwhelming majority of the people have...

  87. Ge0rG

    Guus: having your item on the trello is not a guarantee for anything.

  88. tux

    "We, the people of XSF, hereby appeal to the Board to accept the sensible correction of our Logo as provided in... "

  89. Guus

    Ge0rG: for me, it's the only way that I had some success.

  90. tux

    Ge0rG: this could be a subtitle for a project management course

  91. Ge0rG

    Guus: IIRC the SCAM reference to your mail has been on trello for multiple weeks.

  92. Ge0rG

    tux for Board! :D

  93. Guus

    Ge0rG: Please note that I wrote: "some" success.

  94. MattJ

    Guus, https://trello.com/c/KMFd33fZ/285-approve-guuss-logo-amendments

  95. Guus


  96. Guus

    "amendments" nice. :)

  97. jonasw

    will that be the 1st amendment to our logo?

  98. Ge0rG

    Will the second amendment contain bear arms?

  99. MattJ

    The first time round I read "bear" as "beer"

  100. Guus

    (that was likely his intention)

  101. dwd

    Which'd be more apropos.

  102. Ge0rG

    I heard that the biggest proponents of the second amendment are also proponents of beer.

  103. Ge0rG

    Guus: not at all.

  104. Ge0rG

    But I think the association of bear arms to the second amendment is a purely US-American thing.

  105. jonasw

    oh dear

  106. jonasw

    that pun hurt me

  107. Ge0rG

    dear deer?

  108. Ge0rG

    In my opinion, that pun is the only positive thing about the second amendment.

  109. edhelas

    intosi hey :)

  110. Guus


  111. Zash


  112. mathieui

    the cisco product, I assume

  113. Guus


  114. pep.

    I'm not sure why but I can't forget the fact that it's not XMPP. And I'm sure I'm not the only one, reading this article

  115. Zash

    What's not what?

  116. pep.

    cisco's jabber thing

  117. Ge0rG

    Is it not? Maybe we need to pull their JABBER[tm] license, then?

  118. pep.

    Is it?

  119. pep.

    "Not only did Mattermost support the Pidgin interface for hundreds of their internal users", from what I hear the gateway I really meh

  120. Zash

    gateways tend to be meh

  121. pep.


  122. Guus

    MUC doesn't provide a room creation date / age type of attribute out of the box, correct?

  123. Zash

    Lots of work to do it nicely

  124. Zash

    Guus: Doesn't ring any bells, probably not.

  125. SamWhited

    Does https://xmpp.org/community/events.html ever actually get updated? Someone just asked me when the summits were because there's not one on the calendar (they were looking at that page)

  126. SamWhited

    Maybe it should link to an up to date list?

  127. SamWhited

    or to the calendar

  128. SamWhited

    I was going to recommend that they look at the calendar instead, but I can't actually find a link to it on the website

  129. jjrh

    Yeah - I can't find one.

  130. jjrh

    Thought it might be in the agenda somewhere but it's not.

  131. Zash

    That page could use some words about the annual Brussels summit

  132. SamWhited

    oh hi, I didn't see that you were also here :)

  133. Guus

    SCAM needs to address that. Someone should kick those guys in action.

  134. Guus

    I saw that nyco recently added something to the wiki - but we've yet to organize ourselves

  135. Guus

    by-the-by: I'd welcome PRs that improve that page.

  136. SamWhited dissapears

  137. dwd

    Guus, FYI: SCAM is currently "only" a Work Team. The Board (on your request, probably) could spin up a SIG, which is just an open forum, no membership involved. I suspect you have something akin to this going on anyway, but it'd mean the Work Team itself would have the spend authorization, whereas the SIG can just get on with more general work like Wiki pages.

  138. Guus

    dwd - I'm unsure what value the SIG would add, pragmatically. *everyone* can do pretty much anything that SCAM intends to do, apart from perhaps budgetting things, and interaction with the social media accounts. As summits, conferences and meetups are very topical, I'd expect the effecitve membership of a SIG to change between each event (well, I expect that that *wont* happen in reality).

  139. dwd

    Well, yes. A SIG is, more or less, a mailing list.

  140. Guus

    I can get that without formally defining a SIG

  141. Guus

    board already OK'd that.