XSF Discussion - 2017-09-29

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  155. jonasw

    moparisthebest, there’s always git commit --allow-empty

  156. jonasw

    Guus, merge the new favicon? :)

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  169. Guus

    jonasw: wilco

  170. Guus

    was giving others some time to react

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  181. jonasw


  182. jonasw

    hm, firefox doesn’t show a favicon anymore

  183. jonasw

    ah, now it does

  184. edhelas

    you can see the difference on the favicon ? :D

  185. jonasw


  186. jonasw

    my tabs have dark background

  187. jonasw

    the new favicon has transparent background

  188. jonasw

    instead of white

  189. edhelas


  190. mathieui


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  195. Guus

    Yeah, the missing white square is quite visible

  196. Guus

    (as is the alignment change)

  197. Guus

    Supposedly, this now looks good if you drag/drop the address as a tile in your favorite brand of touchscreen device.

  198. Guus

    (but I didn't check for that)

  199. Zash

    I get 404 on https://xmpp.org/favicon-16x16.png and https://xmpp.org/favicon-32x32.png

  200. Zash

    but https://xmpp.org/favicon.ico seems to exist

  201. Guus

    ah, those are likely missing redirects

  202. Guus

    we keep those in https://xmpp.org/icons/favicon-16x16.png etc

  203. Guus

    (unsure why)

  204. Guus

    that's odd. It appears to be a pelican-based redirect?

  205. Guus

    Simply fixing the template to have the correct paths seems more sensible to me.

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  207. Guus

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/371 should fix it

  208. Guus

    anyone want to have a quick look?

  209. Guus

    hmmm, I might've jumped the gun there

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  211. jonasw

    I don’t think that’ll work with pelican

  212. jonasw

    you need to declare static directories

  213. jonasw

    and declaring content as static won’t work/blow up everything

  214. jonasw

    now all we need to do is to find out why the XEP list is incomplete

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  217. Guus

    jonasw: Yeah, i found that myself. I've revoked that PR, and created (and merged) another

  218. Guus

    I'll need to leave in 25 minutes, with many things to do until then.

  219. Guus

    I'm afraid you're on your own for the XEP list for today

  220. jonasw

    I see

  221. jonasw

    meh, I was hoping it would magically work

  222. jonasw

    that XEP list still frightens me

  223. Guus

    I can imagine

  224. jonasw

    I do not understand how that is run in docker at all. the docker build never invokes buildCompleteWebsite.sh

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  226. Guus

    jonasw: I'm finding that the extensions root points to a temp dir

  227. Guus

    where the initial crash recovery took place

  228. Guus

    want me to remove that real quick?

  229. jonasw


  230. jonasw

    I bet that file isn’t built

  231. jonasw

    that’d explain what I’m (not) seeing in the xmpp.org repository

  232. jonasw

    the built script is not invoked at all, if you remove that we won’t have any list

  233. jonasw

    the build script is not invoked at all, if you remove that we won’t have any list

  234. jonasw

    (now at least it makes sense that I don’t find the invocation of the build script, thanks for taking a look)

  235. jonasw

    I’ll then figure out a cheap way to generate the XEP table with the docker things

  236. Guus

    ok. it's line 83-85 in the xmpp.org nginx config file on eos. Any iteamer should be able to help you

  237. jonasw


  238. Guus

    I'll be offline during the weekend

  239. jonasw


  240. jonasw

    have fun

  241. Guus

    well, on mobile

  242. Guus


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  264. Flow

    Tobias: ping about https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/508#issuecomment-331070510

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  338. Flow

    Ge0rG: How is "Battery saving (CSI) and push have different rules again" a problem?

  339. Ge0rG

    Flow: it's a matter of consistency

  340. Ge0rG

    Flow: also, nobody quite knows which rules to apply for push and csi

  341. Flow

    What would be better if they had consisten rules? Besides CSI deliberately specifies no strict rules at all (which is a good thing IMHO)

  342. MattJ

    Glad someone agrees with me :)

  343. Flow

    I mean it's not an easy thing to answer. It's one of the fields where experience from running code really matters

  344. Flow

    And something we eventually don't have to solve together with all the other more important and relevant issues you mention

  345. dwd

    Agreed. It's also not an easy thing to specify, and unclear what the interop failure by not doing so might be.

  346. dwd

    ie, it's a QoI issue. Some servers might be "better" (or at least more suitable for the client application), but everything should work one way or another eventually.

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  348. Ge0rG

    Flow: https://prosody.im/issues/issue/973 and check mod_csi_battery_saver source code for the many exceptions

  349. Flow

    Ge0rG: I fully aggree that it's important that we research working rules for CSI and Push. I just wanted to say that I don't think that those rules are necessarly the same, and that it's not an issue we should focus on right now

  350. MattJ

    Ge0rG, a couple of notes on that: it's still experimental code, and that report from you is good and healthy so we can improve the rules

  351. Ge0rG

    Flow: I never claimed I have the solutions

  352. MattJ

    The alternative would have been encoding all these rules into the XEP without prior experience

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  354. Flow

    Ge0rG: I would never insinuate you to have solutions ;)

  355. MattJ

    and once encoded, never being able to iterate on them and innovate

  356. Flow

    I do wonder if Session 2.0 and Bind2/SASL2 are two distinct steps into the right direction

  357. Flow

    (but maybe I should read the slides to the end)

  358. Ge0rG

    Flow: I'm pretty sure that CSI and push have the same underlying principles

  359. Flow

    Maybe, maybe not

  360. Flow

    Hrm, Message Routing 2.0 sounds a lot like XMPP 2.0

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  362. Ge0rG

    Flow: we decided to rename XMPP 2 into MR 2 to show it's not a complete reinvention of everything

  363. Flow

    Probably a good idea

  364. Ge0rG

    dwd: "everything should work one way or another eventually." is something I'd rather like to avoid, because then we'll end up with even more hairy corner cases.

  365. Flow

    Ge0rG: What happens in MR 2.0 with messages send to a full JID which is unavailable?

  366. Flow

    And is MR 2.0 also signled on s2s links?

  367. Flow


  368. Ge0rG

    Flow: MR2 should be also signalled on s2s, yeah. And messages are errored back

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  370. Ge0rG

    s2s MR2 will just follow the same semantics, and convert to MR1 clients

  371. dwd

    Ge0rG, CSI explicitly is not allowed to change the semantics of the stream, only introduce delay.

  372. Ge0rG

    dwd: I'm not sure what you are talking of

  373. Flow

    dwd: BTW I've published a new version of compare-and-publish and send a mail to standards@, not sure if you saw it yet. As always, your feedback is appreciated.

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  377. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I'm okay with the rules being worded as MAY everywhere, as long as they are comprehensive according to current state of the art, and not the mess we have in 0280 now

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  379. Flow

    I don't think the CSI and Carbons situation is comparable

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  381. Ge0rG

    Flow: I'm talking about bad wording.

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  383. Ge0rG

    Flow: and yeah, session2 and bind2 are distinct steps

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