XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2017-10-06

  1. Zash has left
  2. SamWhited has left
  3. Zash has joined
  4. lumi has left
  5. Guus has left
  6. ralphm has left
  7. blabla has left
  8. Guus has left
  9. blabla has joined
  10. Tobias has left
  11. Tobias has joined
  12. blabla has left
  13. jjrh has left
  14. jjrh has left
  15. la|r|ma has joined
  16. lskdjf has joined
  17. jjrh has left
  18. daniel has joined
  19. uc has joined
  20. daniel has left
  21. daniel has joined
  22. Neustradamus has left
  23. moparisthebest Ha this is the same argument as the one against e2e earlier https://www.quakenet.org/articles/99-trust-is-not-transitive-or-why-irc-over-ssl-is-pointless
  24. Neustradamus has joined
  25. efrit has left
  26. zinid has left
  27. zinid has joined
  28. efrit has joined
  29. lskdjf has joined
  30. daniel has left
  31. daniel has joined
  32. la|r|ma has joined
  33. daniel has left
  34. daniel has joined
  35. efrit has left
  36. efrit has joined
  37. Neustradamus has left
  38. Neustradamus has joined
  39. Neustradamus has left
  40. Neustradamus has joined
  41. la|r|ma has joined
  42. lskdjf has joined
  43. Guus has left
  44. la|r|ma has left
  45. la|r|ma has joined
  46. Guus has left
  47. Guus has left
  48. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  49. Valerian has left
  50. la|r|ma has joined
  51. daniel has left
  52. nyco has left
  53. Wiktor has left
  54. Wiktor has joined
  55. daniel has joined
  56. lskdjf has joined
  57. Valerian has joined
  58. jere has joined
  59. efrit has left
  60. Valerian has left
  61. uc has joined
  62. zinid moparisthebest: seems like the dude only concerned about mitm?
  63. SamWhited has left
  64. goffi has joined
  65. andrey.g has joined
  66. ralphm has left
  67. Guus has left
  68. Guus has left
  69. stefandxm has left
  70. winfried has joined
  71. uc has joined
  72. jubalh has joined
  73. Yagiza has joined
  74. uc has joined
  75. zinid has left
  76. Guus has left
  77. ralphm has left
  78. bear has left
  79. Flow has joined
  80. bear has joined
  81. jubalh has joined
  82. intosi has left
  83. intosi has joined
  84. Flow has left
  85. Guus has left
  86. ralphm has left
  87. uc has joined
  88. mimi89999 has joined
  89. ralphm has left
  90. bear has left
  91. bear has joined
  92. ralphm has left
  93. sonny has left
  94. sonny has joined
  95. zinid has left
  96. sonny has left
  97. sonny has joined
  98. ralphm has joined
  99. sonny has joined
  100. sonny has joined
  101. sonny has joined
  102. sonny has joined
  103. sonny has joined
  104. sonny has joined
  105. andrey.g has left
  106. sonny has joined
  107. sonny has joined
  108. sonny has left
  109. sonny has joined
  110. sonny has joined
  111. sonny has joined
  112. blabla has joined
  113. sonny has joined
  114. sonny has joined
  115. vanitasvitae Hi! Awesome to see that JET is now experimental :D I noticed some formatting issues in the pdf though. The table under §5 is crippled. Since this is likely to occure elsewhere as well, I thought I'd bring that to your attention :)
  116. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: the best approach is probably to open an issue on the xeps repo. Or even to provide a patch ;)
  117. blabla has left
  118. vanitasvitae Guus told me, that SamWhited and jonasw are doing some work on this, so let me ping you :)
  119. vanitasvitae I'm not familiar with the pdf build process, so I think I'll just open an issue (if there is none yet)
  120. sonny has joined
  121. sonny has left
  122. sonny has joined
  123. Guus I don't think they're still actively working on it - but things did change recently.
  124. sonny has left
  125. sonny has joined
  126. sonny has joined
  127. sonny has joined
  128. sonny has joined
  129. sonny has joined
  130. vanitasvitae I opened https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/521
  131. sonny has left
  132. sonny has joined
  133. sonny has left
  134. sonny has joined
  135. sonny has left
  136. sonny has joined
  137. sonny has left
  138. sonny has joined
  139. sonny has left
  140. sonny has joined
  141. sonny has left
  142. sonny has joined
  143. jonasw nobody is familiar with the pdf build process :D
  144. jonasw yeah, I doubt we can do anything about that
  145. jonasw (looking at the issue)
  146. jonasw it’s simply too wide for the PDF output
  147. ralphm has left
  148. vanitasvitae yeah, I guess you're right
  149. jonasw ideally editors would proofread the PDF output and ensure that it is nice, but ...
  150. jonasw I’m actually more inclined to terminate PDF output altogether than doing that ;-)
  151. vanitasvitae In that case there is not much to do I guess :D
  152. vanitasvitae But pdfs are so nice... :D
  153. jonasw I prefer the HTML version, esp. since Sams recent CSS fixes
  154. jonasw one of the few things I prefer to have in my browser over a separate application
  155. Guus vanitasvitae: can you replace the namespace by a (shorter) reference to a namespace, somehow?
  156. jonasw that would probably do the trick, yes
  157. vanitasvitae maybe get rid of the "-"s as a first step?
  158. vanitasvitae and shorten "nopadding" to "nopad"?
  159. Guus hey, the logo on the PDF (first page), looks weird
  160. Guus it's the old / broken logo, but also has black colors for the outside bits, instead of the blue?
  161. vanitasvitae thats an issue with firefox I think
  162. sonny has joined
  163. jonasw weird
  164. jonasw no
  165. sonny has joined
  166. Guus might be, but I'm using Chrome :)
  167. sonny has joined
  168. jonasw it’s also in the original PDF of the logo
  169. jonasw super weird
  170. vanitasvitae the logo is rendered differently in pdf viewers and browsers I think
  171. vanitasvitae at least I noticed that some time ago
  172. jonasw can’t easily fix that though, because the PDF includes the "XMPP" text for which I don’t have the font I think
  173. jonasw no, it is definitely also in the source files, vanitasvitae
  174. Guus what format is the source?
  175. jonasw this is extremely ugly https://sotecware.net/images/dont-puush-me/FHNZUlDByHqPUgjwj1Cq2EhPat6zvV5sfbTtJ__tlLI.png
  176. jonasw PDF
  177. Guus bah
  178. jonasw I can try to mess with it to embed the new logo in that, should be doable
  179. vanitasvitae PDF missing the main purpose of its existence :D
  180. Guus I've got SVGs for the logo, but not the text
  181. jonasw how did you make xmpp.png then?
  182. jonasw by hand?
  183. Guus yeah, I erased the logo, copied in a newly generated one from SVG using the correct size
  184. jonasw okay
  185. Guus interestingly, the page headers also have a (very small) logo, where the colors are correct.
  186. jonasw yupp
  187. jonasw those are two different files
  188. jonasw patching them now
  189. Guus thanks :)
  190. Guus I'm somewhat surprised that the source components are PDFs themselves. Then again, I know nothing.
  191. jonasw that’s usual for LaTeX
  192. jonasw you can only have PDF as vector format without extra packages when building with {pdf,xe,lua}latex
  193. jonasw now that’s interesting
  194. jonasw https://sotecware.net/images/dont-puush-me/4jcYqbi6zp4l-yyi1U5yz7Dhwjj0O_q_ScQz9oN7Gvs.png
  195. jonasw the pdf including the text contains quite a bit more
  196. jonasw notably, the blue tones are not included in the design specs on the top left
  197. Guus Ah, that's by the original designer
  198. Guus Raja
  199. Guus he's who I talked to earlier.
  200. Guus also, it lists a typeface? :)
  201. Guus Eurostile Bold Extended
  202. Guus https://www.google.be/search?q=Eurostile+Bold+Extended&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjh86TbwtvWAhXQJFAKHca3B5EQsAQIMA&biw=1855&bih=990
  203. Guus seems to be it :)
  204. jonasw that PDF is super weird
  205. jonasw but I guess that’s what you get from opening PDFn with inkscape
  206. Guus those appear to be printing masters
  207. Guus it's probably what the original authors of the PDF generation had available at the time
  208. jonasw making a test build with patched PDFs
  209. jonasw (now I in fact wonder if all built PDFs contain the whole printing master...)
  210. jonasw (or if something is smart enough to crop that out)
  211. jonasw (which I doubt, because it’s pdflatex we’re speaking about)
  212. jonasw well, xelatex
  213. Guus how big is it? If it's just a fraction of the total size, I wouldn't bother improving it further
  214. jonasw a few kiB
  215. jonasw I was just wondering conceptually
  216. jonasw because that’s essentially the XMPP Corporate Design ;-)
  217. jonasw thereifixedit: https://sotecware.net/files/noindex/xep-0391.pdf cc @ Guus
  218. ralphm has left
  219. nyco has left
  220. Guus fun fact: the font used for the 'XMPP' text in our logo is also used in 2001: A Space Odyssey, for the interface of HAL. :)
  221. Guus ah, much better, thanks!
  222. jonasw let’s push that
  223. Flow has joined
  224. jonasw now I get the feeling that I did already quite a lot today! :-)
  225. Guus and it's only 10 am :)
  226. jonasw exactly!
  227. Guus wanna pop over to jdev and see if you have feedback on my question there? :)
  228. Guus oh, you already were there :)
  229. Flow has left
  230. jonasw there you go ;-)
  231. Guus tx :)
  232. jubalh has joined
  233. Ge0rG It's 10 AM and I feel like weekend already
  234. jonasw Ge0rG, good news: weekend for me already. wait. that’s only good news for me. sorry.
  235. Guus you just told us you were available.
  236. Guus that might've been a mistake :P
  237. Flow has joined
  238. jonasw Guus, do you have power over the dockerhup by now? If so, does that include the xeps builds? That’d be good to know.
  239. Kev He does, yes.
  240. jonasw great. Just in case there are issues again, but I suspect now that we don’t source stuff from sourceforge anymore, it should be fine
  241. Guus (what Kev said)
  242. Flow has joined
  243. andrey.g has joined
  244. lumi has joined
  245. Alex has joined
  246. waqas has left
  247. jubalh has joined
  248. Flow has left
  249. Flow has joined
  250. ralphm has left
  251. vanitasvitae has left
  252. Ge0rG has left
  253. Wiktor has joined
  254. Yagiza has left
  255. uc has joined
  256. ralphm has left
  257. zinid has left
  258. Tobias has joined
  259. zinid has left
  260. Yagiza has joined
  261. Holger has left
  262. vanitasvitae has left
  263. vanitasvitae has left
  264. vanitasvitae has joined
  265. jere has joined
  266. Guus has left
  267. Guus has left
  268. iiro.laiho has joined
  269. andrey.g has left
  270. jubalh has joined
  271. andrey.g has joined
  272. intosi has left
  273. jubalh has left
  274. jubalh has joined
  275. Guus has left
  276. Guus has joined
  277. lumi has joined
  278. uc has joined
  279. valo has joined
  280. xnyhps has left
  281. zinid has left
  282. lskdjf has joined
  283. intosi has joined
  284. xnyhps has left
  285. Tobias has joined
  286. lumi has joined
  287. la|r|ma has joined
  288. jubalh has left
  289. Kev has left
  290. Kev has left
  291. Kev has left
  292. Kev has joined
  293. Kev has left
  294. Guus has left
  295. la|r|ma has joined
  296. uc has joined
  297. Zash has left
  298. ralphm has left
  299. mimi89999 has joined
  300. uc has joined
  301. stefandxm has joined
  302. valo has joined
  303. Zash has left
  304. mimi89999 has joined
  305. Yagiza has joined
  306. Zash has left
  307. lumi has left
  308. ralphm has joined
  309. mimi89999 has joined
  310. winfried has joined
  311. stefandxm has left
  312. Guus has left
  313. sonny has joined
  314. uc has joined
  315. Zash has left
  316. Zash has left
  317. sonny has joined
  318. mimi89999 has joined
  319. jjrh has left
  320. jjrh has left
  321. winfried has joined
  322. jubalh has joined
  323. Zash has left
  324. Yagiza has joined
  325. ralphm has left
  326. uc has joined
  327. jjrh has left
  328. Guus has left
  329. jjrh has left
  330. jjrh has left
  331. jubalh has left
  332. Flow dwd: What was the motivation for renaming the 'mechanism' to 'task' in SASL2?
  333. winfried has joined
  334. Kev IIRC because it can do things other than present SASL mechs. I could be wrong.
  335. Flow k, thanks
  336. dwd It also can't do the things mechanisms do. Like change the authorization identifier. Plus they need one to start.
  337. Flow can <task> could also contain a SASL mech?
  338. dwd Doubtful.
  339. Flow Wasn' t one idea that multiple mechs could be chained with SASL2?
  340. Guus did you use two different clients just now, dwd?
  341. Guus your nickname had different colors in Spark
  342. dwd Guus, Conversations for both those (Gajim for this one). Probably Conversations was detached; it looks like it injected a delay stamp.
  343. dwd Flow, So yes, the idea originally was that all these things are SASL mechs. But in practise, when developing, they're not. The first thing is a SASL mech, any subsequent ones are similar to mechanisms but distinct in that they're provided with an authzid, and cannot change it.
  344. Flow authzid was the thing which would allow you to impersonate another entity, right?
  345. Kev Not impersonate, but yes.
  346. dwd Flow, No, the authzid is the (most important) output of the SASL process. In XMPP, it's your jid.
  347. Flow ahh, ok, then it's the authcid I was thinking about
  348. Kev It's the thing that tells you what you are.
  349. dwd Flow, Probably not.
  350. Flow then what's the authcid again?
  351. Guus you authentiCate with authcid, you are then authoriZed for using authzid
  352. Flow An authorization identity is an OPTIONAL identity included by the initiating entity to specify an identity to act as
  353. dwd Flow, The authentication identifier is the identifier used to identify you to the SASL mechanism. Typically you don't specify an authzid, and again typically in XMPP the authcid is just the local-part of the jid and the authzid is then figured out from that.
  354. Flow That does sound like authzid is what I said it is
  355. dwd Flow, It is optional to supply, because it can be derived (normally).
  356. jjrh has left
  357. dwd Flow, You do, always, end up with an authzid. Worth looking at TLS+EXTERNAL as an example - your authcid there is the certificate (or arguably the Subject of it). The authzid might be derived from it (usually from a SAN) or you might supply it.
  358. dwd Flow, There's no "impersonation" going on, though that, too, in as option (known as "Proxy Authentication", because you're authenticating to be a proxy for another user)
  359. Flow So what exactly is the problem that following SASL mechs can't change the authzid? Usually you either never provide the authzid or you provide it, in which case all chained mechs should/must provide the same
  360. dwd Flow, There's absolutely no power on earth that'll make me try to implement that. It's a nightmare.
  361. waqas has joined
  362. blabla has joined
  363. Flow And what is the point in being able to optionally supply the authzid? Re-using the same credentials for different accounts?
  364. Flow Anyway, I don't see a problem that subsequent mechs can not change the authzid
  365. Guus I'm no expert, but, I thought it was primarily used when the username you authenticate with isn't an exact match with the account name that you're authenticate for.
  366. dwd Flow, Sometimes to avoid confusion (like with TLS+EXTERNAL), sometimes for Proxy Auth. Also, if you've a username from, say, Active Directory that's not valid for XMPP, this be a way around that problem too.
  367. Flow I think we mixing two aspects of authzid: The one is where a sasl mech can optionally provide it, the other one is that you only know your full JID after being authenticated
  368. dwd Flow, Input and output, is all.
  369. Flow For chaining mechs, only the former can be possibly relevant, and I don't see why we can't simply say that all chained mechs must provide the same authzid, if they provide any at all
  370. dwd Flow, Why do you want to?
  371. Flow Guus: Yep, besides that your username can be completly different from the localpart of the JID you get
  372. Flow dwd: Why do I want to chain SASL mechs? Well the idea sounded appealing to me back then. And I don't see why we gave up on it
  373. dwd Flow, Because I tried implementing it and it was horrible.
  374. daniel has left
  375. dwd Flow, Whereas I *have* implemented the current spec, along with TOTP etc, and it all works well.
  376. Flow dwd: Maybe, but what is different by having tasks now? SASL mechs are basically just a sequences of challenges and responses, surely tasks are very similar to that?
  377. jjrh has left
  378. jjrh has left
  379. dwd Flow, Yes, the protocol interface is the same, but the internal server-side interface is pretty different.
  380. Flow dwd: shouldn't ex4 in xep388 show a bare jid, or, when do I get a full JID at this stage?
  381. Flow ahh, we do bind2 there also
  382. Flow uh and bind2 still has no support for a client provided part ☹
  383. Kev Is anyone ready to implement bind2? If so I'll try to find time to add that.
  384. Flow and sasl2 can be used without bind2? A lot of possibilities ☺
  385. Flow (but it's getting complicated)
  386. Kev dwd: Did you do bind2 with sasl2, or not?
  387. dwd Kev, I've been toying with a bind2 embedded in sasl2 in my implementation just to see, but I've not tried it yet.
  388. Flow Kev: ex2 in xep388 hints at bind2
  389. suzyo has joined
  390. dwd Flow, Also ISR. But I've not quite finished 198 resumption yet, so...
  391. dwd Flow, I think I said (read: I meant it to say) it was a hypoethetical extension, in ex2.
  392. suzyo has left
  393. daniel has joined
  394. suzyo has joined
  395. stefandxm has joined
  396. suzyo has left
  397. suzyo has joined
  398. suzyo has left
  399. suzyo has joined
  400. suzyo has left
  401. suzyo has joined
  402. suzyo has left
  403. andrey.g has left
  404. sonny has joined
  405. sonny has joined
  406. zinid has left
  407. tux has joined
  408. jjrh has left
  409. daniel has left
  410. jere has joined
  411. uc has joined
  412. jjrh has left
  413. ralphm has left
  414. Flow has joined
  415. moparisthebest ha AOL is finally killing AIM
  416. moparisthebest I... didn't know it was still alive
  417. jjrh has left
  418. Guus has left
  419. daniel has joined
  420. jubalh has joined
  421. lumi has joined
  422. uc has joined
  423. daniel has left
  424. uc has left
  425. uc has joined
  426. daniel has joined
  427. blabla has joined
  428. uc has joined
  429. uc has joined
  430. stefandxm has left
  431. jere has left
  432. jere has joined
  433. intosi has left
  434. Valerian has joined
  435. Yagiza has left
  436. Alex ya, just read the news here: https://aimemories.tumblr.com/
  437. Alex has left
  438. SamWhited That's AIM, MSN Messenger, and Yahoo Messenger all gone… the 90's are finally over :'(
  439. Alex has joined
  440. daniel has left
  441. daniel has joined
  442. moparisthebest well we still have XML >:)
  443. Guus has left
  444. Alex has left
  445. SamWhited Only the worst part of the 90's are still around…
  446. SamWhited goes to rewatch `The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air' to make himself feel better
  447. dwd moparisthebest, Where? We're now using a "React-like wire protocol", remember?
  448. moparisthebest dwd, I haven't heard of that but it sounds terrifying
  449. zinid has left
  450. mimi89999 has joined
  451. Zash has left
  452. daniel has left
  453. lovetox has joined
  454. nyco has left
  455. Lance has joined
  456. ralphm has left
  457. jubalh has joined
  458. Lance has left
  459. Zash has left
  460. uc has joined
  461. lumi has left
  462. jubalh has left
  463. Tobias has left
  464. jubalh has joined
  465. dwd No, no. It's great. It'll get us all the cool kids now. Better than json.
  466. jubalh has left
  467. la|r|ma has joined
  468. jubalh has joined
  469. lskdjf has joined
  470. Guus I heard you use this argument a few days ago
  471. Guus so presumably, there now is a newer fashion.
  472. blabla has joined
  473. ralphm has left
  474. Zash has left
  475. efrit has joined
  476. Valerian has left
  477. jubalh has left
  478. uc has joined
  479. mimi89999 has joined
  480. stefandxm has joined
  481. Zash has left
  482. Zash has joined
  483. lskdjf has joined
  484. la|r|ma has joined
  485. stefandxm has left
  486. Guus has left
  487. Guus has left
  488. Guus has joined
  489. moparisthebest ...
  490. Valerian has joined
  491. moparisthebest longtime guy in IRC channel mentions jabber, I say that's awesome when did you start using it
  492. moparisthebest he says just now to try to talk to some drug dealers from darkweb sites
  493. moparisthebest so, that's nice haha
  494. zinid definitely success
  495. mimi89999 has joined
  496. la|r|ma has joined
  497. lskdjf has joined
  498. andrey.g has joined
  499. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  500. andrey.g has joined
  501. ralphm has joined
  502. andrey.g has joined
  503. stefandxm has joined
  504. andrey.g has joined
  505. Alex has left
  506. jonasw has left
  507. andrey.g has joined
  508. la|r|ma has joined
  509. stefandxm has left
  510. dwd moparisthebest, Well, at least we have a dedicated niche market.
  511. moparisthebest yea use is exploding in a certain market segment I guess
  512. moparisthebest anyone want to sign up and ask about usability issues, UI problems etc
  513. andrey.g has joined
  514. Guus yeah, lets fix those nasty spam control issues that they're experiencing for them
  515. lskdjf has joined
  516. moparisthebest I can probably get the .onion site domain haha
  517. moparisthebest see here is a segment that probably values forward secrecy over long term archives right?
  518. zinid has left
  519. dwd moparisthebest, Depends if they have a sideline in blackmail, I guess.
  520. moparisthebest guess the 'seller' is using jodo.im I'm guessing it has IBR enabled judging by the flash 9.0 required on the http page
  521. andrey.g has joined
  522. jere has left
  523. dwd has left
  524. jere has joined
  525. ralphm has joined
  526. jubalh has joined
  527. andrey.g has joined
  528. Valerian has left
  529. Valerian has joined
  530. Valerian has left
  531. Valerian has joined
  532. uc has joined
  533. sonny has left
  534. pep. has joined
  535. pep. has joined
  536. Bunneh has joined
  537. waqas has joined
  538. fippo has joined
  539. Tobias has joined
  540. xnyhps has joined
  541. xnyhps has joined
  542. andrey.g has joined
  543. sonny has joined
  544. blabla has left
  545. andrey.g has joined
  546. lovetox has left
  547. jubalh has left
  548. lumi has joined
  549. blabla has joined
  550. andrey.g has left
  551. andrey.g has joined
  552. jjrh has left
  553. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  554. andrey.g has joined
  555. Valerian has left
  556. andrey.g has joined
  557. jonasw has left
  558. jonasw has joined
  559. iiro.laiho has left
  560. jjrh has left
  561. stefandxm has joined
  562. jubalh has joined
  563. jubalh has left
  564. moparisthebest has joined
  565. Neustradamus has left
  566. jubalh has joined
  567. Alex has left
  568. andrey.g has joined
  569. valo has joined
  570. stefandxm has left
  571. andrey.g has joined
  572. jubalh has left
  573. fippo has joined
  574. emxp has left
  575. emxp has joined
  576. andrey.g has joined
  577. andrey.g has left
  578. andrey.g has joined
  579. efrit has left
  580. andrey.g has left
  581. daniel has joined
  582. nyco has left
  583. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  584. SamWhited has left
  585. andrey.g has joined
  586. Zash has left
  587. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  588. Alex has left
  589. mimi89999 has joined
  590. Zash has joined
  591. daniel has left
  592. Alex has joined
  593. uc has joined
  594. pep. has joined
  595. stefandxm has joined
  596. Guus has left
  597. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  598. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  599. lumi has left
  600. stefandxm has left
  601. uc has joined
  602. Alex has left
  603. sonny has joined
  604. Valerian has joined
  605. la|r|ma has joined