HolgerFlow: Not sure (where) that's implemented, though.
intosiOn any given service, only (node id, item id) needs to uniquely point to an item. But you can republish an item with the same ID, which would defeat the purpose of the id in MAM.
Ge0rGFlow: "too many IDs" is true irregardless of context.
HolgerFlow: Ah nonsense, that only works with a timestamp.
FlowSo there is no way to catch up on pubsub items while offline, presuambly because the assumption is that you will get the notifications about new items also while offline?
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HolgerHmm well 0312 does somewhat try to provide that, no?
FlowI really start to dislike xep0060. Not only is there no way to reliable get the publisher's JID, you also can't do the simplest queries…
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KevThat's why someone at the Summit was suggesting using 313 for 60 queries.
Holgergoffi's PubSub component does MAM, I think.
vanitasvitaejonasw, If I want to make changes to JET, shall I make these changes in xep-0391, or inbox/jet?
Ge0rGvanitasvitae: inbox/jet should cease to be a thing as soon as it's got a number
vanitasvitaeokay :)
jonaswGe0rG, no, it still exists for historical purposes
jonaswvanitasvitae, updates against xep-0391.xml
Ge0rGmaybe we could get rid of that, we've got git history after all.
jonaswGe0rG, I think the purpose is to have it on the webserver too
vanitasvitaejonasw, I noticed, that the XEP mentions a dependency on 234 (jingle file transfer). Is this necessary? JET should work for other Jingle usecases too, even when a client does not implement 234.
vanitasvitaeLooks like I added that dependency, when the document was still titled "Jingle Encrypted Transfers"
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jonaswvanitasvitae, I didn’t add that depedency :)
jonaswfeel free to modify that
vanitasvitaeokay
jonaswin Experimental, you can as author basically everything
jonaswin Experimental, you can do basically everything as author
jonaswyou just need to preserve compatibility
vanitasvitaeokay. I should also add revisions, right?
jonaswvanitasvitae, you SHOULD, yes. An editor will do that if you don’t.
jonaswwhen you do it, you have the chance to make the revision text as meaningful as possible :)
vanitasvitae:D I'll do you the favor :)
jonaswif you would follow the spirit of semantic versioning when choosing the next version number, that’d be great
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FlowSo MAM with PubSub only improvement are the query conditions 'start', 'end' and 'with'. But we could specify a PubSub specific (after|before)-pubsub-item-id?
ZashDoes mam+pubsub mean mam-rsm ids are pubsub ids or?
FlowZash: intosi says no
ZashAltho with pubsub ids being user-controlled ... and sometimes always "current", glhf
FlowFor the same reason I had to invent a new "value" for the "Atomically Compare-And-Publish PubSub Items" XEP
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Flow(Of course the reasoning is not false, I just think that it is a design flaw that IDs may point to different content, instead of having an <item-retracted/> marker)
FlowZash "always "current""?
jonaswFlow, maybe you could first specify your new ID for re-use by different things and then build CAP on top of that?
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Flowjonasw: I'm not sure if it's of any use
ZashFlow: In a bunch of PEP things, the item ID is always the string "current"
intosiZash: indeed. And just the fact that the Item ID is something the publisher can provide, instead of letting the server guarantee its uniqueness across the service, is enough to invalidate it for MAM id.
ZashYeah
ZashLike with message@id
ZashHm, does that mean thaw MAM+PubSub is doomed?
FlowZash: You can still use 'start', 'end' and 'with'
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ZashYes
FlowAnd specify further fields for MAM+PubSub like after-pubsub-item-id
ZashDoes the pubsub service have final say over the item id?
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intosiMAM with Pubsub has semantics that differ from Pubsub retrieval anyway, as you're likely to get the same itemid more than once in some use cases.
MattJI was never convinced about MAM+pubsub
ZashMattJ: Weren't you the one who said "Just use MAM?" back then?
MattJniirc :)
ZashI REMEMBER EVERYTHING .. almost
intosiI use MAM instead of remembering everything.
Ge0rGI use a server-side client with logging.
MattJ^
Ge0rGMAM is too bumpy.
ZashOr you can just forget everything the instant it scrolls off the screen. If it was important then they shouldn't have written it over an ephemeral instant messaging thing! :)
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Nathan...
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edhelaswe can change the 0060
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edhelasit's not like we have many Pubsub + MAM implementation in the wild :p