XSF Discussion - 2017-10-16

  1. zinid

    RFCs like 7564 make me cry

  2. zinid

    instead of providing a simple pseudo-code there are 40 pages of stupid definitions

  3. fippo

    feel free to submit a draft doing so.

  4. edhelas

    lskdjf no, please no, it's like saying that you don't need proper validation in HTML/JS because the database can handle that

  5. edhelas

    SamWhited that would be nice yes :)

  6. jonasw

    pep., XEP-0392 offers a way to adapt the colors to a given background.

  7. jonasw

    or overall theme tint

  8. Syndace

    Is "Remko" here, the dude that wrote a mail about OMEMO key agreement recently?

  9. jonasw

    Syndace, sometimes

  10. jonasw

    yesterday or on saturday he was

  11. jonasw

    why are you asking?

  12. Syndace

    I read a lot about OMEMO recently and I want to discuss his question a little while not spamming the mailing list with probably unqualified comments :D

  13. Syndace

    is his nick in here remko aswell?

  14. jonasw


  15. jonasw

    Syndace, there’s always the option of replying only to him

  16. pep.

    jonasw: re color generation, nice

  17. Syndace

    jonasw, I decided to risk it and answered the list ^^

  18. Flow

    Syndace, good question you posted :)

  19. SamWhited

    edhelas: the little tool I use isn't actually on this machine, but here's a quick one that just checks if the first argument is a valid JID: https://gist.github.com/SamWhited/faaa24d72e06903122152a5a17984fe7

  20. SamWhited

    Note that by default that will be using the newer version of PRECIS from RFC 8264 and Unicode 10, but there shouldn't be any major differences.

  21. pep.

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bmh.html Is that Flow? What happens if a client doesn't announce any supported markup? will the other client send non-formatted plaintext? Or the same but untagged?

  22. jonasw

    MattJ, lovetox is having issues joining the channel, possibly the stalled s2s bug. he’s in jdev. Care to debug?

  23. Flow

    pep.,: what do you think would be best?

  24. pep.

    Is there a need for the XEP?

  25. Flow

    pep I obviously think so, as otherwhise I wouldn't have go through the effort writting it

  26. pep.

    Well the example I showed above kind of defeats the point

  27. Flow

    pep., your question?

  28. pep.


  29. Flow

    pep., I don't see how it defates the point

  30. pep.

    The markup is going to make it _as is_ to the other side in any case

  31. Zash

    With MAM, carbons and whatever, you have no way of knowing if all the clients that receive it supports it.

  32. Flow

    Ok, so maybe it's time to provide some motivation for BMH

  33. Flow

    I was going to wait until the offical editor annoucement, but it looks like people get into the wrong direction about what it's about

  34. Zash

    It would let those who understand it know for sure that it is what the sender intended.

  35. Flow

    Zash, that!

  36. pep.

    And why not xhtml-im?

  37. pep.

    You're assuming it's already out, right?

  38. Flow

    So BMH does not try to be a successor of XHTML-IM

  39. Flow

    It's not even meant as intermediate solution

  40. Flow

    The case for BMH is bridges which take Markup formated text, and send it via XMPP to an XMPP client

  41. Flow

    For example a Stackoverflow bot, which sends you an question and a answer

  42. Flow

    Or a discourse interface

  43. Zash

    Thing could in theory have serverside translation into XHTML-IM or XEP-future-markup-thing

  44. Flow

    Or a Bot which sends you status information with headings and sections and stuff

  45. pep.

    well the gateway/bridge would know markups the other side sends, and could translate it into XHTML-IM

  46. pep.

    I'm not sure more is needed

  47. Flow

    If you client doesn't know the markup language, fine, it will still display the text more or less nicely

  48. Flow

    If it does understand the markup hinted markup language, it can throw it into a converter and show it in a richful way

  49. Zash

    So it's equivalent to the Content-Type header in email

  50. Flow

    pep., Not every client supports XHTML-IM

  51. Zash

    Which is fine.

  52. pep.

    Flow, the more reasons to implement it

  53. pep.

    Not every client supports $MARKUP

  54. Zash

    Flow: pep.s point of the discovery section being fairly pointless stands tho

  55. Zash

    OTOH it is mandatory in XEPs

  56. Flow

    Zash, yep, the discovery was just a goodie I wanted to take along

  57. pep.

    I'm still not sure I see the point. This can be totally covered with xhtml-im

  58. pep.

    Flow, please do add some more details on the XEP so we can comment on it before it's accepted

  59. pep.


  60. Flow

    pep: I've responded on the editor announcement

  61. Flow

    Also the latest snapshot of the xep may contains more backstory: http://geekplace.eu/xeps/xep-bmh/xep-bmh.html

  62. Flow

    Meh, a 2 week last call for so important cornerstones like MAM feels a little bit to short

  63. pep.


  64. pep.

    I'd like to make motivation the first requirement of a protoXEP :x

  65. Zash

    Isn't that usually supposed to be covered in the first section?

  66. pep.

    Well apparently not enough

  67. Zash

    Like, a problem statement or somesuch

  68. pep.

    "Why is this needed", "Are there existing XEPs trying to solve the same issue or similar/related ones", "How does that compare to these XEPs", etc.

  69. Flow

    please direct blame to the lazy me :)

  70. pep.

    Flow, I can see a point for your XEP here, just that it doesn't really come at a good time, with the latest events around XHTML-IM and people trying to kill it

  71. pep.

    Also I fear people are going to abuse it

  72. pep.

    And give up on xhtml-im for this

  73. Zash

    Was there an easy way to get schemas out of XEPs?

  74. waqas

    Zash: Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.

  75. waqas

    Zash: You can probably use one of the xpath CLI tools to grab this: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep-0016.xml#L856

  76. waqas

    No idea if this stuff is consistent across XEPs

  77. Zash

    In this specific instance I'm interested in getting schemas out of XEP60

  78. Zash

    And I seem to have repressed^W forgotten how XPath works

  79. waqas


  80. waqas

    Copy paste, and split on the CDATA sections

  81. waqas

    Oh, it uses <xs:import /> to reference an external 'http://xmpp.org/schemas/x-data.xsd' too

  82. Zash

    Hm, I have this strange memory of fighting xpath or xml search tools in order to get them to spit out bare text, and giving up beacuse it's impossible.

  83. Zash

    Why is {pubsub#errors}unsupported a MUST?

  84. Zash

    Why does the implementation need to know all the things it doesn't do?

  85. Zash

    And isn't this the job of disco#info?