XSF Discussion - 2017-10-16

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  86. zinid RFCs like 7564 make me cry
  87. zinid instead of providing a simple pseudo-code there are 40 pages of stupid definitions
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  91. fippo feel free to submit a draft doing so.
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  97. edhelas lskdjf no, please no, it's like saying that you don't need proper validation in HTML/JS because the database can handle that
  98. edhelas SamWhited that would be nice yes :)
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  100. jonasw pep., XEP-0392 offers a way to adapt the colors to a given background.
  101. jonasw or overall theme tint
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  109. Syndace Is "Remko" here, the dude that wrote a mail about OMEMO key agreement recently?
  110. jonasw Syndace, sometimes
  111. jonasw yesterday or on saturday he was
  112. jonasw why are you asking?
  113. Syndace I read a lot about OMEMO recently and I want to discuss his question a little while not spamming the mailing list with probably unqualified comments :D
  114. Syndace is his nick in here remko aswell?
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  116. jonasw yupp
  117. jonasw Syndace, there’s always the option of replying only to him
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  137. pep. jonasw: re color generation, nice
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  140. Syndace jonasw, I decided to risk it and answered the list ^^
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  153. Flow Syndace, good question you posted :)
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  214. SamWhited edhelas: the little tool I use isn't actually on this machine, but here's a quick one that just checks if the first argument is a valid JID: https://gist.github.com/SamWhited/faaa24d72e06903122152a5a17984fe7
  215. SamWhited Note that by default that will be using the newer version of PRECIS from RFC 8264 and Unicode 10, but there shouldn't be any major differences.
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  362. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bmh.html Is that Flow? What happens if a client doesn't announce any supported markup? will the other client send non-formatted plaintext? Or the same but untagged?
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  366. jonasw MattJ, lovetox is having issues joining the channel, possibly the stalled s2s bug. he’s in jdev. Care to debug?
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  396. Flow pep.,: what do you think would be best?
  397. pep. Is there a need for the XEP?
  398. Flow pep I obviously think so, as otherwhise I wouldn't have go through the effort writting it
  399. pep. Well the example I showed above kind of defeats the point
  400. Flow pep., your question?
  401. pep. yes
  402. Flow pep., I don't see how it defates the point
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  404. pep. The markup is going to make it _as is_ to the other side in any case
  405. Zash With MAM, carbons and whatever, you have no way of knowing if all the clients that receive it supports it.
  406. Flow Ok, so maybe it's time to provide some motivation for BMH
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  408. Flow I was going to wait until the offical editor annoucement, but it looks like people get into the wrong direction about what it's about
  409. Zash It would let those who understand it know for sure that it is what the sender intended.
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  411. Flow Zash, that!
  412. pep. And why not xhtml-im?
  413. pep. You're assuming it's already out, right?
  414. Flow So BMH does not try to be a successor of XHTML-IM
  415. Flow It's not even meant as intermediate solution
  416. Flow The case for BMH is bridges which take Markup formated text, and send it via XMPP to an XMPP client
  417. Flow For example a Stackoverflow bot, which sends you an question and a answer
  418. Flow Or a discourse interface
  419. Zash Thing could in theory have serverside translation into XHTML-IM or XEP-future-markup-thing
  420. Flow Or a Bot which sends you status information with headings and sections and stuff
  421. pep. well the gateway/bridge would know markups the other side sends, and could translate it into XHTML-IM
  422. pep. I'm not sure more is needed
  423. Flow If you client doesn't know the markup language, fine, it will still display the text more or less nicely
  424. Flow If it does understand the markup hinted markup language, it can throw it into a converter and show it in a richful way
  425. Zash So it's equivalent to the Content-Type header in email
  426. Flow pep., Not every client supports XHTML-IM
  427. Zash Which is fine.
  428. pep. Flow, the more reasons to implement it
  429. pep. Not every client supports $MARKUP
  430. Zash Flow: pep.s point of the discovery section being fairly pointless stands tho
  431. Zash OTOH it is mandatory in XEPs
  432. Flow Zash, yep, the discovery was just a goodie I wanted to take along
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  436. pep. I'm still not sure I see the point. This can be totally covered with xhtml-im
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  456. pep. Flow, please do add some more details on the XEP so we can comment on it before it's accepted
  457. pep. :)
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  460. Flow pep: I've responded on the editor announcement
  461. Flow Also the latest snapshot of the xep may contains more backstory: http://geekplace.eu/xeps/xep-bmh/xep-bmh.html
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  463. Flow Meh, a 2 week last call for so important cornerstones like MAM feels a little bit to short
  464. pep. thanks
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  470. pep. I'd like to make motivation the first requirement of a protoXEP :x
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  482. Zash Isn't that usually supposed to be covered in the first section?
  483. pep. Well apparently not enough
  484. Zash Like, a problem statement or somesuch
  485. pep. "Why is this needed", "Are there existing XEPs trying to solve the same issue or similar/related ones", "How does that compare to these XEPs", etc.
  486. Flow please direct blame to the lazy me :)
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  488. pep. Flow, I can see a point for your XEP here, just that it doesn't really come at a good time, with the latest events around XHTML-IM and people trying to kill it
  489. pep. Also I fear people are going to abuse it
  490. pep. And give up on xhtml-im for this
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  531. Zash Was there an easy way to get schemas out of XEPs?
  532. waqas Zash: Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.
  533. waqas Zash: You can probably use one of the xpath CLI tools to grab this: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep-0016.xml#L856
  534. waqas No idea if this stuff is consistent across XEPs
  535. Zash In this specific instance I'm interested in getting schemas out of XEP60
  536. Zash And I seem to have repressed^W forgotten how XPath works
  537. waqas https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep-0060.xml#L6522
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  539. waqas Copy paste, and split on the CDATA sections
  540. waqas Oh, it uses <xs:import /> to reference an external 'http://xmpp.org/schemas/x-data.xsd' too
  541. Zash Hm, I have this strange memory of fighting xpath or xml search tools in order to get them to spit out bare text, and giving up beacuse it's impossible.
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  548. Zash Why is {pubsub#errors}unsupported a MUST?
  549. Zash Why does the implementation need to know all the things it doesn't do?
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  552. Zash And isn't this the job of disco#info?
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