XSF Discussion - 2017-10-17


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  130. Flow

    hmm, I didn't receive pep.'s mail to standards@

  131. Flow

    ahh, dwd points out it's a DMARC issue

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  134. jonasw

    the list needs reconfiguring then

  135. jonasw

    mailman can re-write DMARC-affected emails to let them pass filters downstream, at the cost of usability

  136. pep.

    Flow: ah right it's probably me

  137. pep.

    I need to fix it

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  140. dwd

    jonasw, No, it's doing exactly what it should. DMARC is broken, that's all.

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  142. pep.

    My dmarc settings are too strict

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  144. pep.

    Dkim is borken and I need to fix it

  145. dwd

    DMARC is just broken.

  146. pep.

    Why?

  147. dwd

    Created by the operators of Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, Facebook, etc... They had no interest in making mailing lists work, it didn't fit their business model.

  148. dwd

    And they did it outside the IETF and then forced it on everyone as a fait accompli.

  149. dwd is using a French phrase in celebration of being in France. I think.

  150. Zash

    Wasn't DKIM a Yahoo thing too?

  151. pep.

    Dmarc is not the spec issue here, it's just a reporting standard

  152. pep.

    Well + other niceties

  153. Ge0rG gabs popcorn

  154. Zash

    pep.: Every time I read the DMARC spec it tells me that DKIM and SPF are both mandatory to deploy.

  155. pep.

    the issue*

  156. pep.

    Zash: no they're not

  157. pep.

    But yes you should probably

  158. Zash

    I should not

  159. Zash

    I tried

  160. pep.

    If you want dmarc to be useful

  161. Zash

    Mailing lists all borked

  162. Kev

    DMARC can be useful? :p

  163. pep.

    MLs are borked indeed :/

  164. Zash

    pep.: That's not how blame works on the internet!

  165. pep.

    But I would say it's more of a dkim issue

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  167. pep.

    You require so much energy from me at not even 9am.. Still in the bed

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  170. Zash

    While on the topic of email. dwd, your email where you told pep. about the dmarc issue, the text version is bad.

  171. dwd

    Quite possibly. Dodgy android gmail client.

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  173. Zash

    It's pretty much identical to the email replied to

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  175. Zash

    Took me forever to figure out that the text was quoted, because the only sign of that was a <div> in the html version.

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  177. dwd

    I really need to switch to Fastmail or something. Partly inertia (I'd need to switch domain) and partly cost.

  178. Ge0rG is selfhosting email. Not as bad as some people claim.

  179. Zash

    Apparently the trick to self-hosting is getting a gmail account.

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  181. pep.

    I need to mitigate the spam problem a bit, that's the most annoying

  182. pep.

    Someday I'll install a spam filter

  183. Ge0rG

    the XMPP spam problem?

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  187. pep.

    Mail

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  190. jonasw

    spamassassin + imapsieve to train it

  191. jonasw

    but ECHAN

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  193. Zash

    ENOMEM

  194. zinid

    I personally don't want to mess with spam filters so I chose to use gmail

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  196. pep.

    jonasw: I already have sieve yep, I just need to take time for spamassassin

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  232. Wiktor

    DMARC has a FAQ entry for mailing lists ( https://dmarc.org/wiki/FAQ#I_operate_a_mailing_list_and_I_want_to_interoperate_with_DMARC.2C_what_should_I_do.3F ) one of suggestions is just to use mailing list in the From header and move sender to Reply-To header, some mailing lists have options like that (e.g. https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC )

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  240. jonasw

    Wiktor, yes, it sucks

  241. Wiktor

    jonasw: I don't know, I'm not using Mailman but thanks for info!

  242. jonasw

    you can do that with mailman, but since it mangles the From it makes lists harder to read

  243. Zash

    Aren't you supposed to set Sender?

  244. jonasw

    depends, I think

  245. jonasw

    some operate on the sender, some on From, some on SMTP-Mail-From

  246. Wiktor

    DMARC only cares about From, if you mangle that it's DMARC-OK :)

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  425. goffi

    https://blog.agayon.be/sat_jp.html ==> nice blog post about SàT CLI frontend, if anywone want's do have an idea of its abilities.

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  440. Zash

    Mmmm, what's this https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-cms-eddsa-signatures-08

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  498. dwd

    Wiktor, Please read RFC 5322. From is the author. DMARC is in the wrong here.

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  502. Zash

    -rfc 5322

  503. Bunneh

    Zash: Internet Message Format. P. Resnick, Ed.. October 2008. (Updated by RFC6854) (Status: DRAFT STANDARD) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322

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  512. pep.

    dwd, I see your point (re DMARC)

  513. pep.

    DKIM is not helping though is it?

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  517. pep.

    (this morning's discussion, and your remark to Wiktor)

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  521. Wiktor

    Well the issue is mailing list modifying email content or/and headers, appending footers, adding mailing list id to subject. If the email was not modified it'd pass DKIM checks and DMARC would be happy. Then you can have your From just fine :)

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