XSF Discussion - 2017-10-17

  1. Flow

    hmm, I didn't receive pep.'s mail to standards@

  2. Flow

    ahh, dwd points out it's a DMARC issue

  3. jonasw

    the list needs reconfiguring then

  4. jonasw

    mailman can re-write DMARC-affected emails to let them pass filters downstream, at the cost of usability

  5. pep.

    Flow: ah right it's probably me

  6. pep.

    I need to fix it

  7. dwd

    jonasw, No, it's doing exactly what it should. DMARC is broken, that's all.

  8. pep.

    My dmarc settings are too strict

  9. pep.

    Dkim is borken and I need to fix it

  10. dwd

    DMARC is just broken.

  11. pep.


  12. dwd

    Created by the operators of Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, Facebook, etc... They had no interest in making mailing lists work, it didn't fit their business model.

  13. dwd

    And they did it outside the IETF and then forced it on everyone as a fait accompli.

  14. dwd is using a French phrase in celebration of being in France. I think.

  15. Zash

    Wasn't DKIM a Yahoo thing too?

  16. pep.

    Dmarc is not the spec issue here, it's just a reporting standard

  17. pep.

    Well + other niceties

  18. Ge0rG gabs popcorn

  19. Zash

    pep.: Every time I read the DMARC spec it tells me that DKIM and SPF are both mandatory to deploy.

  20. pep.

    the issue*

  21. pep.

    Zash: no they're not

  22. pep.

    But yes you should probably

  23. Zash

    I should not

  24. Zash

    I tried

  25. pep.

    If you want dmarc to be useful

  26. Zash

    Mailing lists all borked

  27. Kev

    DMARC can be useful? :p

  28. pep.

    MLs are borked indeed :/

  29. Zash

    pep.: That's not how blame works on the internet!

  30. pep.

    But I would say it's more of a dkim issue

  31. pep.

    You require so much energy from me at not even 9am.. Still in the bed

  32. Zash

    While on the topic of email. dwd, your email where you told pep. about the dmarc issue, the text version is bad.

  33. dwd

    Quite possibly. Dodgy android gmail client.

  34. Zash

    It's pretty much identical to the email replied to

  35. Zash

    Took me forever to figure out that the text was quoted, because the only sign of that was a <div> in the html version.

  36. dwd

    I really need to switch to Fastmail or something. Partly inertia (I'd need to switch domain) and partly cost.

  37. Ge0rG is selfhosting email. Not as bad as some people claim.

  38. Zash

    Apparently the trick to self-hosting is getting a gmail account.

  39. pep.

    I need to mitigate the spam problem a bit, that's the most annoying

  40. pep.

    Someday I'll install a spam filter

  41. Ge0rG

    the XMPP spam problem?

  42. pep.


  43. jonasw

    spamassassin + imapsieve to train it

  44. jonasw

    but ECHAN

  45. Zash


  46. zinid

    I personally don't want to mess with spam filters so I chose to use gmail

  47. pep.

    jonasw: I already have sieve yep, I just need to take time for spamassassin

  48. Wiktor

    DMARC has a FAQ entry for mailing lists ( https://dmarc.org/wiki/FAQ#I_operate_a_mailing_list_and_I_want_to_interoperate_with_DMARC.2C_what_should_I_do.3F ) one of suggestions is just to use mailing list in the From header and move sender to Reply-To header, some mailing lists have options like that (e.g. https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC )

  49. jonasw

    Wiktor, yes, it sucks

  50. Wiktor

    jonasw: I don't know, I'm not using Mailman but thanks for info!

  51. jonasw

    you can do that with mailman, but since it mangles the From it makes lists harder to read

  52. Zash

    Aren't you supposed to set Sender?

  53. jonasw

    depends, I think

  54. jonasw

    some operate on the sender, some on From, some on SMTP-Mail-From

  55. Wiktor

    DMARC only cares about From, if you mangle that it's DMARC-OK :)

  56. goffi

    https://blog.agayon.be/sat_jp.html ==> nice blog post about SàT CLI frontend, if anywone want's do have an idea of its abilities.

  57. Zash

    Mmmm, what's this https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-cms-eddsa-signatures-08

  58. dwd

    Wiktor, Please read RFC 5322. From is the author. DMARC is in the wrong here.

  59. Zash

    -rfc 5322

  60. Bunneh

    Zash: Internet Message Format. P. Resnick, Ed.. October 2008. (Updated by RFC6854) (Status: DRAFT STANDARD) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322

  61. pep.

    dwd, I see your point (re DMARC)

  62. pep.

    DKIM is not helping though is it?

  63. pep.

    (this morning's discussion, and your remark to Wiktor)

  64. Wiktor

    Well the issue is mailing list modifying email content or/and headers, appending footers, adding mailing list id to subject. If the email was not modified it'd pass DKIM checks and DMARC would be happy. Then you can have your From just fine :)