Flowhmm, I didn't receive pep.'s mail to standards@
Flowahh, dwd points out it's a DMARC issue
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jonaswthe list needs reconfiguring then
jonaswmailman can re-write DMARC-affected emails to let them pass filters downstream, at the cost of usability
pep.Flow: ah right it's probably me
pep.I need to fix it
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dwdjonasw, No, it's doing exactly what it should. DMARC is broken, that's all.
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pep.My dmarc settings are too strict
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pep.Dkim is borken and I need to fix it
dwdDMARC is just broken.
pep.Why?
dwdCreated by the operators of Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, Facebook, etc... They had no interest in making mailing lists work, it didn't fit their business model.
dwdAnd they did it outside the IETF and then forced it on everyone as a fait accompli.
dwdis using a French phrase in celebration of being in France. I think.
ZashWasn't DKIM a Yahoo thing too?
pep.Dmarc is not the spec issue here, it's just a reporting standard
pep.Well + other niceties
Ge0rGgabs popcorn
Zashpep.: Every time I read the DMARC spec it tells me that DKIM and SPF are both mandatory to deploy.
pep.the issue*
pep.Zash: no they're not
pep.But yes you should probably
ZashI should not
ZashI tried
pep.If you want dmarc to be useful
ZashMailing lists all borked
KevDMARC can be useful? :p
pep.MLs are borked indeed :/
Zashpep.: That's not how blame works on the internet!
pep.But I would say it's more of a dkim issue
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pep.You require so much energy from me at not even 9am.. Still in the bed
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ZashWhile on the topic of email. dwd, your email where you told pep. about the dmarc issue, the text version is bad.
dwdQuite possibly. Dodgy android gmail client.
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ZashIt's pretty much identical to the email replied to
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ZashTook me forever to figure out that the text was quoted, because the only sign of that was a <div> in the html version.
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dwdI really need to switch to Fastmail or something. Partly inertia (I'd need to switch domain) and partly cost.
Ge0rGis selfhosting email. Not as bad as some people claim.
ZashApparently the trick to self-hosting is getting a gmail account.
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pep.I need to mitigate the spam problem a bit, that's the most annoying
pep.Someday I'll install a spam filter
Ge0rGthe XMPP spam problem?
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pep.Mail
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jonaswspamassassin + imapsieve to train it
jonaswbut ECHAN
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ZashENOMEM
zinidI personally don't want to mess with spam filters so I chose to use gmail
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pep.jonasw: I already have sieve yep, I just need to take time for spamassassin
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WiktorDMARC has a FAQ entry for mailing lists ( https://dmarc.org/wiki/FAQ#I_operate_a_mailing_list_and_I_want_to_interoperate_with_DMARC.2C_what_should_I_do.3F ) one of suggestions is just to use mailing list in the From header and move sender to Reply-To header, some mailing lists have options like that (e.g. https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC )
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jonaswWiktor, yes, it sucks
Wiktorjonasw: I don't know, I'm not using Mailman but thanks for info!
jonaswyou can do that with mailman, but since it mangles the From it makes lists harder to read
ZashAren't you supposed to set Sender?
jonaswdepends, I think
jonaswsome operate on the sender, some on From, some on SMTP-Mail-From
WiktorDMARC only cares about From, if you mangle that it's DMARC-OK :)
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goffihttps://blog.agayon.be/sat_jp.html ==> nice blog post about SàT CLI frontend, if anywone want's do have an idea of its abilities.
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ZashMmmm, what's this https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-cms-eddsa-signatures-08
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dwdWiktor, Please read RFC 5322. From is the author. DMARC is in the wrong here.
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Zash-rfc 5322
BunnehZash: Internet Message Format.
P. Resnick, Ed.. October 2008. (Updated by RFC6854) (Status: DRAFT STANDARD)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322
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pep.dwd, I see your point (re DMARC)
pep.DKIM is not helping though is it?
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pep.(this morning's discussion, and your remark to Wiktor)
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WiktorWell the issue is mailing list modifying email content or/and headers, appending footers, adding mailing list id to subject. If the email was not modified it'd pass DKIM checks and DMARC would be happy. Then you can have your From just fine :)