XSF Discussion - 2017-11-02

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  117. jonasw moparisthebest, huh
  118. jonasw thanks for the hint
  119. jonasw moparisthebest, I always only saw DKIM_INVALID but I assumed that’s the mailing lists fault
  120. jonasw moparisthebest, even though, I can find the key in the DNS without issues?
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  141. dwd jonasw, DKIM doesn't really work with mailing lists. It only works if all you do is 1:1 mail.
  142. jonasw dwd, I am aware of that.
  143. jonasw it’s not that I *want* to do DKIM.
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  161. Ge0rG Only three days remaining for Council and Board candidates. Wow.
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  176. jonasw I might roll back DKIM. It doesn’t seem to have helped with delivery to google or anyone anyways.
  177. jonasw and it only casues damage
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  179. goffi I'm wondering about the MAM last call, do we have implementations of MAM for Pubsub? At least one we made for SàT Pubsub, but any other one?
  180. dwd goffi, Not that I know of. And our on MIX is out of date, since it needs the pointless id added.
  181. goffi is not needed to have 2 implementations to do a last call on MAM then?
  182. goffi actually the one on SàT Pubsub may be outdated to.
  183. dwd goffi, That's Final, not Draft, isn't it?
  184. goffi ah maybe
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  215. jonasw in retrospect, DKIM-Spam-Issues probably also explain some of the XHTML-IM discussion :/
  216. jonasw iteam, can we configure the ML so that it mangles DKIM-signed messages in a way which avoids incorrect signatures?
  217. jonasw some people don’t have a choice on whether they send DKIM signatures
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  245. moparisthebest jonasw, if you want to review component/protocol etc it's to a working state, pre-compiled .apk here or compile it yourself: https://github.com/moparisthebest/Conversations/releases
  246. jonasw a compiled build is not really useful to review something, is it?
  247. jonasw I can’t into mobile development, at all
  248. moparisthebest it links to both the mobile code and the component
  249. moparisthebest I think additionally the component needs to advertise in disco that it's an 'echo component' and that should be good enough
  250. Zash Which kind of review?
  251. Zash And of what?
  252. moparisthebest any kind and of any of it :)
  253. jonasw moparisthebest, frankly, I’d prefer a written specfiication over having to read java code.
  254. jonasw but I’m at work anyways
  255. moparisthebest the specification is there too in the readme, such as it is https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self
  256. jonasw ok, might take a look this evening
  257. moparisthebest also the entire component is 130 lines of java code including comments
  258. moparisthebest I wasted about 4 hours trying to get sleekxmpp or slixmpp to work for this and failed...
  259. moparisthebest anyway being able to seamlessly SMS through my phone from gajim is sweet, or any other xmpp client supporting carbons
  260. jonasw I still find your (ab-)use of carbons... non-satisfactory
  261. jonasw this is a hack for something which deserves a proper solution.
  262. Zash Does this even make sense?
  263. moparisthebest I wouldn't call it a hack, multi-client is useless without carbons anyway, not sure why the component should be made complicated and require registration just to support use without carbons...
  264. jonasw it is a hack.
  265. Zash Transports being attached to the server is one of the very earliest design decisions in Jabber, so doing this in a non-awkward fashion will be Hard.
  266. moparisthebest this is one of the problems with some XMPP specs, instead of solving the simple problem simply, they attempt to solve complicated problems no one actually has yet but might have in the future in a more complicated way
  267. jonasw I think it makes sense to have per-user transports if the transport is linked to a hardware token owned by the user (e.g. SMS)
  268. Zash moparisthebest: IM is not a simple problem
  269. Zash It may look simple, but it's not.
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  272. moparisthebest this solves the problem of a client-side sms transport and works perfectly so it seems rather simple and it works
  273. moparisthebest and requires no changes to other clients or servers, most importantly
  274. Zash "Works" and "Hack" are not mutually exclusive.
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  276. Zash Hacks usually work.
  277. moparisthebest why is relying on other already defined XEPs a hack?
  278. jonasw moparisthebest, but doesn’t it strain the server by intentionally sending messages to non-existant domains?
  279. Zash Making something hacky that works is a good first step, as it helps understand the problem.
  280. moparisthebest nothing stops anyone from making a new XEP that does complicated state management and registration to avoid carbons, it's just useless
  281. moparisthebest jonasw, the domain exists
  282. jonasw ah, the domain of the "echo" component?
  283. moparisthebest it's a standard xmpp domain/component
  284. moparisthebest yep
  285. moparisthebest in fact my pre-compiled apk is pointed to my component running at echo.burtrum.org and works for anyone that can federate to that
  286. moparisthebest this should be replaced by discovery and fallback to a hard-coded component, eventually
  287. Zash Eh, is it wise to publish a thing that would leak all your SMSes to you?
  288. moparisthebest as a super alpha with a warning about it? sure
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  290. jonasw Zash, is it wise to install a random apk from a random persons github page? ;-)
  291. moparisthebest I wouldn't, I'd compile it myself pointed to my own echo server instance :)
  292. moparisthebest I also just found out about this today: https://github.com/SilenceIM/Silence/pull/390 the SMS app is planning on adding a transport-over-xmpp option hehe
  293. Zash yetanothermessengerapp
  294. Link Mauve moparisthebest, what kind of issue did you have with slixmpp?
  295. Link Mauve Did you start from the echo_component example?
  296. moparisthebest yes Link Mauve it alternatively would return strings or parsed element structures but I could never get them back into a Message that I could .send etc, my 3 failed attempts are here: https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self/tree/master/failed_python_attempts
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  300. Link Mauve Strings or parsed element structures?
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  303. moparisthebest so depending what I tried the <message> in the <forwarded> block would either be an Element or just a string
  304. Link Mauve Some of your code reads like it should work.
  305. Link Mauve moparisthebest, you need to load the xep_0297 plugin in order to get a Message, probably.
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  307. moparisthebest Link Mauve, yea I did that too check xmpp-echo-self.forward.py
  308. moparisthebest xmpp-echo-self.py doesn't use forward and works with sleekxmpp but not slixmpp, but then I decided to go with forwards anyhow
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  310. Link Mauve moparisthebest, the usual way is:
  311. Link Mauve forwarded_message = msg['forwarded']['stanza'] forwarded_message['to'] = your_user forwarded_message.send()
  312. Link Mauve From what I understand you want to do.
  313. moparisthebest Link Mauve, yea so sometimes I'd get an error on forwarded_message['to'] = your_user like 'str does not support .attr()' and sometimes I'd get an error on forwarded_message.send() like 'Element does not have .send() method'
  314. Link Mauve moparisthebest, that’s if you don’t have the plugin loaded.
  315. Link Mauve (Yes, slixmpp defaults to '' for unknown attributes…)
  316. Link Mauve (Yes, I hate it.)
  317. Link Mauve (And my branch changing that broke a ton of code in poezio alone, so I didn’t try to go forward.)
  318. Link Mauve (I want to test aioxmpp, if it managed to be less non-typed than slixmpp.)
  319. Link Mauve (But what I want the most, is a proper Rust library.)
  320. Link Mauve (xmpp-parsers is based on the opposite idea from slixmpp’s, types are good and you should use them, always.)
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  322. Link Mauve (But it only parses and serialises stanzas and payloads, it isn’t an XMPP library per se.)
  323. jonasw Link Mauve, aioxmpp is rather strongly typed
  324. jonasw :-)
  325. Link Mauve I should try to move poezio to it, someday.
  326. jonasw sounds like a plan ;-)
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  331. moparisthebest yes Link Mauve completely agree I wanted to do it in rust but not quite there yet :)
  332. moparisthebest anyway I spent a solid 4 hours trying different things with sleek and then slix then gave up so meh...
  333. moparisthebest would have tried aioxmpp but jonasw said no component support yet
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  335. jonasw I didn’t say "yet" ;-)
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  337. moparisthebest sorry sorry :P
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  339. Link Mauve moparisthebest, both xmpp and tokio-xmpp support components, fyi.
  340. moparisthebest anyway Guus whack is nice and simple, typed but also super easy to just grab / manipulate XML directly, I like it :)
  341. Link Mauve I personally added that. :)
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  344. Link Mauve The only constraint is that you can’t use both a client and a component when you import them in your project, it’s a feature which toggles the component or client thing.
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  347. moparisthebest still need a new version of xmpp released though, current doesn't compile with stable rust, had to use git for my client thing
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  351. Guus Wait what?
  352. Guus Someone mentioned me?
  353. moparisthebest yep, whack compliment
  354. Guus Yey!
  355. Guus Didn't work on that for ages though 😀
  356. Guus Also mostly code from Jive
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  358. moparisthebest everything doesn't need to be developed for latest node.js in the last week to be good :)
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  360. Guus Happy to hear it's helpful for you.
  361. dwd moparisthebest, You're still developing on last week's node.js? Luddite.
  362. Ge0rG My node.js is from last month!
  363. Ge0rG Okay, that was a lie. My node.js is 4.4.7 LTS, which is from mid-2016.
  364. moparisthebest wow that's like 6 versions behind
  365. moparisthebest 8 is LTS now
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  367. Link Mauve I had an update to 9.0 like yesterday, you’re all so out of date…
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  369. moparisthebest node has to be the only software where LTS means like "ok I guess we'll support this version for 3 months"
  370. Zash lolwut
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  410. tux Sounds like node.js is the software pendant to memory manufacturers. 🙃
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  422. Zash What should happen if you send <presence type="error"/> (with nothing else)?
  423. zinid should be dropped by the server?
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  425. dwd Zash, A little window should pop up telling you you have too much time on your hands.
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  427. Zash > Discarding unhandled error presence (<nil>, unknown condition) from c2s: <presence type='error'>
  428. dwd Zash, I preferred my error message.
  429. Ge0rG The words "time" and "hands" should be replaced by the respective Emoji..
  430. Zash :time::hands:
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  434. dwd I just tried it with Openfire. A world of nothing happened.
  435. zinid same for ejabberd :)
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  442. moparisthebest https://github.com/openspace42/aenigma "aenigma provisions a fully functional and secure out of the box XMPP server you can get running today."
  443. moparisthebest never heard of that before, looks like bash script to set up ejabberd? odd
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  450. zinid there are also nginx and sslh in the bundle ;)
  451. moparisthebest I only saw it because dev emailed a question to the sslh mailing list :)
  452. Flow which clients do support "xmpp over ssh"? Or do you need an ssh-client setting up a tunnel?
  453. Flow ahh s/ssh/ssl/
  454. moparisthebest xep-368 style? conversations does
  455. moparisthebest I had a list of implementations in the email hang on...
  456. dwd moparisthebest, He didn't mean that.
  457. moparisthebest oh got it
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  494. Alex we need more board & council candidates here ;-) https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2017#
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  496. Ge0rG I might volunteer
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  498. Alex Ge0rG: go, go , go
  499. moparisthebest what happens if there aren't enough candidates actually
  500. Ge0rG I've already started my election page, but had to leave home.
  501. jonasw I was kind of hoping that we’d have more candidates than seats so that the election actually gets interesting :/
  502. Alex moparisthebest: :-S we did not have such a case in the entire career of the XSF yet. Would have to lookup the bylaws then or apply myself ;-)
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  505. Alex in the last years applications for board and council always came in close to the deadline
  506. Ge0rG Didn't we have situations in the past where the number of candidates matched the seats, making the election rather pointless?
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  508. Kev It's not entirely pointless.
  509. Kev You don't get elected automatically you, still need to get elected.
  510. Ge0rG Not entirely, no
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  512. Ge0rG I imagine that my council application will be rather controversial
  513. jonasw that’s a good thing, right?
  514. moparisthebest not that Ge0rG guy...
  515. moparisthebest haha <3
  516. Zash Make XMPP Great Again!
  517. moparisthebest I'd buy that hat
  518. Zash Tell the SCAM team
  519. jonasw well played
  520. Ge0rG That motto is kind of burned. Besides, it should be "Make Jabber Great Again"...
  521. Zash Ha
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  524. Ge0rG I realized my error some time ago, but then Drumpf was elected already, doing bad things, so...
  525. moparisthebest oh right, no I'd vote against you if you ran on a slogan with Jabber in it
  526. Zash "Make Jabber Ours Again"
  527. Ge0rG moparisthebest: why so?
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  529. Zash Ge0rG: For your own protection (against trademark infrigement)(?)
  530. moparisthebest yep!
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  532. Ge0rG I know my trademarks
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  581. moparisthebest zinid, so the sslh question guy is saying ejabberd will support '368 next version, in what way(s) ?
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  583. zinid moparisthebest: what is 368
  584. zinid I don't remember all those stupid xep numbers
  585. Zash -xep 368
  586. Bunneh Zash: XEP-0368: SRV records for XMPP over TLS (Standards Track, Draft, 2017-03-09) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0368.html
  587. zinid it supports it already for outgoing server connections
  588. Zash "Legacy SSL on port 5223 but with SRV records"
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  590. moparisthebest presumably it already supported legacy ssl on port 5223 for c2s
  591. moparisthebest but what else?
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  593. zinid in theory it should support sni, but it doesn't
  594. zinid sni for incoming connections
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