XSF Discussion - 2017-11-09

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  14. Arc btw dwd why is being sick prevent someone from attending a board meeting?
  15. Arc a few weeks ago i went, and i was vomiting all night and coming down from a fever from shingles
  16. Arc its not like meetings are physically stressful
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  19. Zash I don't think we should be forcing people into things when they are sick
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  22. mathieui Arc, looking at a computer when you’re very tired or have any kind of physical ailment is not a pleasure
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  25. Arc Zash: i didnt say force, let them decide
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  28. Arc http://www.sheut.net/Difference_Engine_-_Beige_With_Noodles.ogg
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  30. moparisthebest Arc: you didn't see the council meeting earlier about bolding things
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  43. Zash Link Mauve: Can't you just chmod a+r the xep84 node, like people want with omemo?
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  127. Arc moparisthebest: ?
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  227. mathieui https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002627.html FYI, in addition to the usual RTC room, FOSDEM also has a "Decentralized Internet & Privacy" which is also relevant for XMPP
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  308. daniel i just submitted a general 'what is xmpp and why do we need it' kind of talk to that devroom
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  318. daniel Has anyone else submitted something to either that room or the realtime room?
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  320. Guus (not that I'm aware of - It'd be nice if you could add your talk to our wiki page, so that we can keep track)
  321. daniel done
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  325. Guus Thanks (I changed the table format a little for additional prettiness)
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  368. SamWhited daniel: I submitted something about the compliance suites
  369. jonasw SamWhited, re XEP-0114, I think if it needs changing at all, it could be moved to Advanced Server or Advanced IM Server, but given that it’s the only way to add components, and components can bring great value, I think it should stay in the compliance suites.
  370. SamWhited *nods* I don't know that it's critical or anything either and could be convinced either way
  371. jonasw it’s very useful for sure
  372. Kev I'm not convinced it needs to be in the compliance suites, really.
  373. Kev I'm not going to cry that it is, but I don't see a need.
  374. dwd Kev, Depends what you see a Compliance Suite as being. I see the Basic stuff as being stuff you be surprised wasn't supported, and I think that covers XEP-0114.
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  376. Kev I *think* if you use that as a metric, you can never remove anything from a compliance suite.
  377. Kev Because you would expect anyone implementing a new server to do all of Basic, and that makes it surprising that anything in Basic isn't implemented, which means it goes into Basic, and ...
  378. Kev Saying that, M-Link does have customers who use 114 still, so perhaps it really does belong in there.
  379. dwd Kev, I don't, to borrow your phrase, disagree.
  380. dwd Kev, But even Metre does XEP-0114, so I don't really see why it'd be contentious to include.
  381. jonasw +1
  382. Kev Yeah, I've changed my mind. It probably does belong in there, although I'd be low-F about it being removed.
  383. Kev It's moderately widely used and useful.
  384. Guus it makes for a nice tool to platform-independently add server-sided functionality. I've never quite got why it didn't take-off more.
  385. jonasw Guus, lack of auth and crypto
  386. jonasw requires you to have things on the same host basically
  387. Guus jonasw: "take off" as in developed further.
  388. jonasw ah
  389. jonasw then maybe because that’s still good enough for many people
  390. Ge0rG I think component support is much more important than avatars. But then again...
  391. Guus although you can do direct-tls easily
  392. jonasw Guus, with extra proxies?
  393. Guus ?
  394. jonasw how’d you do direct-tls?
  395. Guus open a server-sided socket that immediately does TLS?
  396. Guus c2s 5223-like?
  397. jonasw sure, but that’s not specified, is it?
  398. Guus ah, no, not as far as I know
  399. Guus actually, wasn't there a follow-up xep somehwere?
  400. dwd jonasw, It has TLS, at least on most servers.
  401. jonasw dwd, maybe I missed that
  402. dwd jonasw, As for auth, yes. Failing issue, there. XEP-0225 tried to address that, but nobody used that.
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  404. dwd jonasw, So XEP-0114's examples all use 0.9 - no version number, so no features. But in practise, if a component sends a version='1.0', then it gets features, usually including TLS.
  405. jonasw I admit that I’m not familiar with how components work that way
  406. jonasw I assumed that they only do what’s written in XEP-0114 :)
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  409. MattJ Pretty sure Prosody only does what's in XEP-0114, but fippo had a patch for it
  410. MattJ Not really sure how I feel about it
  411. dwd I can't actually recall what Openfire does, despite having a look ages ago.
  412. Zash Is there a difference between 114 + features and 225?
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  414. Guus I'm pretty sure that Openfire doesn't do much beyond 114 either.
  415. dwd Zash, Authentication is SASL. And the namespace is jabber:client.
  416. jonasw nice though, wouldn’t that allow multiplexing of component and client connections on the same port without magic?
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  418. dwd jonasw, Yes, and I'm really not sure that's sensible either.
  419. Zash Abolish jabber:{client,server}! Single unified namespace!
  420. Zash The Real XMPP 2.0! :)
  421. dwd Zash, As with so many things, it's a solved problem now.
  422. dwd Zash, Well, except when I cock it up.
  423. Zash Hm?
  424. Zash Did you mean: "It's such a minor problem that nobody will ever bother fixing it"
  425. dwd Zash, I mean, no matter how big a problem it is when starting out, everyone has solved it now so there's little point in going through the effort of changing it now.
  426. Flow Does xep225 allow multiplexing multiple component domains over the same component connection?
  427. zinid Flow: yes
  428. zinid iirc :)
  429. zinid at least I remember something about it when I was implementing it
  430. SamWhited Doesn't everyone just ignore the namespace anyways? (I'm actually curious, I can't think why it matters but maybe stone people respect it)?
  431. SamWhited *some people
  432. zinid Flow: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0225.html#bind
  433. Zash Ignore the namespace? What blasphemy is this?!
  434. dwd SamWhited, Openfire ignores and strips it, whereas Metre (and maybe others?) internally dispatch elements based on the namespace.
  435. zinid it cannot be ignored everywhere
  436. zinid in some places you need to know the namespace
  437. dwd SamWhited, Well, I say "maybe others", but M-Link dispatched based on the qualified name as a whole when I worked on it.
  438. SamWhited Makes sense; I do dispatch based on payload namespaces but not the stanza level ones, but I guess you could mix server/client handlers and use the stanza level ones too
  439. Flow zinid, hmm, ok, but it doesn't explicitly mention that multiple <bind/>s are allowed
  440. Flow or did I miss that?
  441. zinid Flow: "A component can send a subsequent bind request to bind another hostname (a server MUST support binding of multiple hostnames)."
  442. dwd Flow, Oh, multiple bind was another thing. Not sure where that ended up, but it was a terribly idea I thought.
  443. Flow ahh its in there
  444. Flow good
  445. dwd zinid, Oh, it stayed in there?
  446. zinid dwd: as you see :)
  447. zinid Section 4, example 4
  448. Flow dwd, what's wrong with it?
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  450. Ge0rG It's a nice path for many security vulns
  451. dwd Flow, From a security standpoint, it makes lots of things awkward. We were talking about having it on C2S sessions more generally, which is worse.
  452. zinid actually a customer wanted this multiple binding, that's why we implemented xep-0225 in commercial version of ejabberd
  453. MattJ Multiple binding for c2s used to be standardized, possibly in the RFCs, I forget
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  455. dwd MattJ, I thought we documented it and then abandoned. ProtoXEP perhaps, or possibly I-D?
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  457. MattJ https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0193.html
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  462. dwd All the way to Draft.
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  528. moparisthebest I was confused by the whack API seemingly letting you bind a transport to multiple hostnames, I'd never heard of that before
  529. moparisthebest that explains it though
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  531. moparisthebest uh, bind a component*
  532. moparisthebest hmm got my first xmpp spam that was just a link to pastebin.com
  533. moparisthebest good luck filtering that on keywords
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