XSF Discussion - 2017-11-11

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  17. SamWhited Guus, Ge0rG: I tried to address some of your feedback as well as make the text clearer in places: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/540/files
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  114. Guus SamWhited: would it make sense to update the "last updated" timestamp? I was refreshing my page, waiting for the build to succeed by looking at that date...
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  158. Ge0rG Wow, so much constructive feedback on a Friday night. Breaking the problem space into pieces really pays off :)
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  173. Kev Ge0rG: Thought it might :)
  174. Ge0rG Kev: thanks for making me do it :)
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  217. SamWhited Guus: oops, sorry, I haven't been pushing versions.
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  280. Guus SamWhited: no worries. Perhaps something that could be automated?
  281. SamWhited Guus: I don't think it's really necessary in this case; generally I just ask authors to update it when they make a PR. I just didn't do it for this because it gets reset to 0.1 when accepted anyways and the old ones would go away
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  283. Guus Oh, I was referring to the datestamp on top, not then version number
  284. SamWhited oh, my mistake
  285. SamWhited they're the same thing though
  286. SamWhited that's pulled from the last revision block, IIRC
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  321. Guus jabber.org's cert expired 4 hours ago
  322. Guus is that iteam's server to manage?
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  328. ralphm Guus: no. The jabber.org server is not an XSF activity. That said. There is an overlap between the people running that server and iteam
  329. ralphm I'll nudge Edwin
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  331. Guus thanks
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  372. Guus Hurgh. Finally implemented most of Message Styling, SamWhited - what a drag :(
  373. Guus didn't do the nesting
  374. Guus I'm still in the opinion that the amount of complexity in the XEP doesn't warrant the benefits. I expect that a good deal of devs will only do the easy bits, or will do the non-easy-bits wrong.
  375. Guus I'd drop the recursion/nesting, and potentially all block definitions completely.
  376. Guus _that said_: *yey styles!*
  377. Guus (the other way around - the benefits don't warrant the complexity - but you got what I ment)
  378. daniel Guus: complexity? My parser (including blocks and nesting) is less than 50 lines
  379. daniel And that's Java with all its boilerplate
  380. zinid how do you tolerate java btw? the boilerplate is so annoying, I can't stand it
  381. Ge0rG daniel: is it easily exportable into other Android projects? 😁
  382. daniel Ge0rG, i've been meaning to put this into an actual library. but you could already copy paste two class files and then have a static StylingHelper.style(Editable editable)
  383. daniel https://github.com/siacs/Conversations/blob/master/src/main/java/eu/siacs/conversations/utils/StylingHelper.java
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  385. zinid public static void (c)
  386. daniel zinid, it's actually gotten a lot better with Java 8 (which you cant use on Android but i use that for my other projects)
  387. daniel plus IDE takes a lot of the pain away
  388. zinid I need to look at it then, I have heard java 8 has some improvements
  389. Ge0rG daniel: great! But please make it a library... I always wanted to have one that would convert xhtml-im into Android Spannable, but I suppose I can give up hope now
  390. daniel yeah i like it a lot. even my seeminly small tools like the complinace tester or the uptime monitor (status.conversations.im) are java 8
  391. daniel i very rarely use so called scripting languages
  392. zinid too, I use ocaml for scripting :D
  393. moparisthebest zinid: can confirm Java 8 makes a huge difference
  394. SamWhited That bad? How did you implement it? I just recursed into the blocks and it was fairly easy
  395. SamWhited /cc Guus
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  398. Guus SamWhited: You just used the words 'recurse' and 'simple' in one sentence.
  399. SamWhited What? It made it very simple
  400. SamWhited It meant I didn't have to special case the stuff inside blocks, just call the parse function again
  401. Guus Recursion is inherently complex. Not MUC complex, but a lot more complex than should be needed to print a couple of words in a bold font.
  402. Ge0rG I wonder how many levels of recursion one can get into a single message
  403. Zash What stack size limits do you have?
  404. daniel Ge0rG, not that many actually. because limited keywords
  405. SamWhited I didn't bother setting one, the stack is cheap so if you want to send: > >> >>> >>>> Up to the limit your server allows for body size then be my guest
  406. Ge0rG daniel: only if you prevent recusing into a keyword type that's already on the stack
  407. daniel i mean you couldn't just write *_*_*test*_*_*
  408. daniel thats invalid syntax
  409. SamWhited Oh, I didn't do recursion inside spans, that was simpler
  410. Ge0rG You could add letters and whitespace?
  411. Zash What, can't have bold */and/* italics?!
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  413. daniel Ge0rG, true
  414. SamWhited Zash: that should work
  415. Guus If you'd use underscores instead of slashes.
  416. Ge0rG SamWhited: without recursion?
  417. Guus Bold *_and_* italics.
  418. SamWhited Ge0rG: yes, I think so. Let me clean this up and push it
  419. daniel or maybe not. i'm confused
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  423. Guus Daniel, I think that there's a small omission in the preformatted block ending in Conversations
  424. daniel Guus:?
  425. Guus it appears to end on any occurrance of ```, instead of on a line that only contains ```.
  426. Guus This should not be monospaced. ``` if ( foo.equals( "```" ) ) { // This should be monospaced (but is not in Conversations) } ``` again, no longer monospaced.
  427. Guus ah, I see that the same applies to the start
  428. daniel Yes I think that got changed recently in the xep, right? I didn't follow your discussion yesterday
  429. Guus not sure, only worked on that today :)
  430. SamWhited Yah, I just tried to clarify that block, I think it makes it a little easier if you can just scan line by line.
  431. Guus but it stands to reason that ```this should not be monospaced``` (although `this` should).
  432. SamWhited The way I wrote my version having the ``` (which is the start of a block) inline means blocks overlap though, which ends up being way more complicated
  433. SamWhited but I could go either way
  434. daniel Fwiw in whatsapp triple back ticks don't need to be in their own line
  435. daniel Haven't check slack yet
  436. Guus shurgs and mutters something about disliking code blocks in IM in the first place
  437. Guus I'll go do my grumpy old man routine in front of the tv. Will lurk on mobile for a bit.
  438. SamWhited really likes pasting code blocks at work
  439. daniel I don't really care. It's a simple fix in my parser to only allow it when it starts with a \n
  440. SamWhited but could go either way
  441. Zash I usually just pastebin stuff I want to show
  442. Zash Spoiled by mod_pastebin mayhaps
  443. daniel how does the ignoring part go along with the first section where it says that keywords should stay in there?
  444. Flow Are, and if, how are, new lines defined in <body/>/XMPP?
  445. SamWhited daniel: good point; maybe I should change that to read "it's part of the keyword, not the preformatted block"
  446. SamWhited Flow: \n
  447. Flow SamWhited, great, where is that specified?
  448. SamWhited Flow: I don't follow, that's just a newline… I didn't mean literally typing \\n
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  450. Flow Well strictly speaking \n is just a line feed
  451. SamWhited Oh I see, are you worried about people sending \r\n?
  452. SamWhited I have no idea if or where that's specified
  453. Flow Even more worse, a line break convention that doesn't end with \n
  454. SamWhited I wouldn't worry about it too much.
  455. SamWhited Maybe XML specifies a line ending to use? I have no idea. As far as styling is concerned that's deliberately handwavey though.
  456. Flow Well if we don't have it specified, and if a XEP speaks of newlines, then it should be specified to be sound
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  458. Zash I wouldn't count on \r\n surviving exactly like that all the way across the XMPPnet
  459. SamWhited My XML decoder appears to normalize to \n
  460. Flow Zash, within <body/>? Any sane XML parser would not touch element text.
  461. SamWhited Changing everything to \n seems perfectly sane to me
  462. SamWhited But I'm still not sure if everything does that, maybe that's just this one
  463. ralphm https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-line-ends
  464. Zash IIRC we looked at having Prosody preserve all kinds of whitespace, and everything broke.
  465. SamWhited Thanks ralphm
  466. SamWhited There we go then. That explains why this has never been an issue in any XMPP clients I've ever used.
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  470. Flow "MUST behave as if". I wonder what that is supposed to mean. But yes, looks like that any sane XML parser is supposed to normalize line endings to \n. XML 1.1. converts even more to \n
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  473. Zash There was something that at least Prosody did to whitespace in some places. Maybe attributes? I forget.
  474. Flow Zash, maybe the whitespace between attributes?
  475. Zash Yes but no, that's not what we were looking at.
  476. Zash https://hg.prosody.im/trunk/rev/6e67c73f730c https://hg.prosody.im/trunk/rev/9030b056bd4a
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  478. Zash https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#AVNormalize
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  488. ralphm Well, XML 1.1 is much too newfangled for XMPP.
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