Link Mauve“01:44:52 Zash> Link Mauve: Can't you just chmod a+r the xep84 node, like people want with omemo?”, and willingly give away your JID in your MUC presence so that other participants can find it? ^^
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Link MauveI just added a page for an event we’ll be part of, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Capitole_du_Libre_2017
Link MauveIt’s next weekend, Guus, could we get a stock of stickers in time for this event? :x
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Link MauveI’ll try to get other things as well, for example a French translation of Arc’s Prosody booklet, and maybe stickers of ours.
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GuusLink Mauve: sure. Send me a shipping address.
edhelasGuus o/
edhelaswe need to prepare a bit for T-DOSE as well :)
Guusedhelas: yes. Suggestions?
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Archoly crap, im on live internet video
Archttps://video.nest.com/embedded/live/ctrlh1
jonaswcongrats or so? :-)
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GuusIf I click this link, everyone better had their clothes on, Arc...
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jonasw:D
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jonaswArc, which one of that is you? :-)
GuusHe's the one sitting down.
Guusdid he bring his own french coffee press?
Guusoh, shh, he's looking!
Guusoh, false alarm.
GuusI could do this all day! ;)
Arci brought it here to stay here, but yes. its for tea
Guuswoah - quite a bit of lag.
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Arcyea, a few seconds
jonaswtea!
jonaswbuilding a tea-machine with CLI interface so that I can write down tea-instructions as makefiles is on my long-term todo :)
Guusjonasw, you need a (different) hobby.
GuusI mean, CLIs are so passé.
edhelasjonasw why not write a XEP for that ?
jonaswGuus, trivial to make anything on top of CLI :)
ZashGuus: NO U
edhelasMakefile Over XMPP
jonaswedhelas, HTCPCP over XMPP?
ArcRust!
ZashArc: Moldy tea? Sounds awful
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GuusHe just put away his laptop - probably won't respond :)
GuusI like my new Big Brother role :)
jonaswBig Guus
jonaswGuus, edhelas, also, a CLI tool could just be a frontend to an XMPP client sending commands ;-✎
jonaswGuus, edhelas, also, a CLI tool could just be a frontend to an XMPP client sending commands ;-) ✏
Guusexcuses!
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arcHeh
arcRustlang
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Link MauveGuus, do you prefer one in France or in the UK? (CC: mathieui.)
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mathieuione what?
Link MauveShipping address for SCAM material.
Link MauveOr maybe it would be more prudent to ship directly to the friend hosting us?
Link MauveGuus, how long would it take to ship them, generally?
GuusLink Mauve: I don't care. You should account for a couple of days delivery time
mathieuiwell, unless it arrives on saturday, it doesn’t change much
Link MauveFor me it has to arrive on Friday morning at the latest.
GuusLink Mauve: I have little experience - I think Daniel received his after two days. That was NL->DE
Ge0rGwouldn't it be cheaper and faster to order material from a local printing shop?
GuusLink Mauve: no promises other than that I will send it today.
edhelasGuus you'll bring goodies for T-DOSE BTW ?
GuusGeorg: I have them pre-printed, shipping doesn't cost much.
Link MauveGe0rG, it may be, and we’re going to print some ourselves as well (French conference).
Ge0rGLink Mauve: what's the difference, accents all over "XMPP"? :D
Link Mauve:p
edhelasimèmpépaÿ
edhelas*ixèmpépaÿ
danielprinting something that is comparable in quality is pretty expensive. while shipping is not
Ge0rGzímpŷ
Link MauveGe0rG, JabberFR is pretty well-known around here, so we’ll probably stickers with our logo, and also a translated flyer of Arc’s Prosody setup.✎
Link MauveGe0rG, JabberFR is pretty well-known around here, so we’ll probably print stickers with our logo, and also a translated flyer of Arc’s Prosody setup. ✏
Ge0rGX̲͍̬̺M̰͔͉̼̹̲̯Ṕ̭ͭ̿P̟͉̤̮̥̺̍ :D
Link MauveGuus, ok, so:
Emmanuel Gil Peyrot
19 Victoria Road
CB4 3BW Cambridge
United Kingdom✎
Link MauveGuus, ok, so:
Emmanuel Gil Peyrot
19 Victoria Road
CB4 3BW Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
United Kingdom ✏
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GuusLink Mauve: just the stickers, or also Arc' leaflet (I've got English ones only)
Link MauveHmm, maybe a few English ones, I’m sure there will be some non-French people around.
Link Mauvemathieui, any idea for the amount? I’ve never been to that particular event.
GuusI've sent Daniel 100, I think.
GuusIf you don't put them on the table all at once, they'll last longer :)
Guus(stickers, that is)
mathieui100 sound good
zinidwhat stickers/
zinidis it a meme or something here?
Link MauveGuus, sure. :)
Link Mauvezinid, the things you can put on the back of your laptop.
Ge0rGI didn't know XMPP had stickers support
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zinidbut I don't have a laptop...
zinidfridge is ok?
Ge0rGyeah
Guus100 stickers, 20 english folders (the folders are bulkier to send - I'd be happy to send as many as you want, but if you don't need them, I'd rather prevent have to find suitable envelopes :)
Guuswill that do, Link Mauve?
Link MauveGuus, yup, should be fine, thanks!
Guusok. Will send them this afternoon.
mathieuithanks!
Guusnp
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GuusJonasw the library list on the website isn't validated against the list of known platforms - is that by design?
Guus(I'm not bothered by it - just checking)
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Ge0rGI think we had a discussion about "platforms" for libraries being harder to pinpoint than for applications
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jonaswGuus, isn’t it? I thought it was
jonaswah right
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Ge0rGMattJ: what about making MAM response messages type=headline?
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GuusLink Mauve: two envelopes on their way.
Link MauveYay, thanks!
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moparisthebestjonasw: is there ever more to making tea than boiling water and dropping a tea bag in there for a bit?
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ZashDangerous statement to make near any brits
mathieuiteabags? blasphemy
Link MauveMy monocle just fell.
SamWhited> My monocle just fell.
I'm really glad that stereotype translates across the channel as well as it doors across the Atlantic, that made me laugh.
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Ge0rGI just wondered if that stereotype will be still understandable in the next 10-20 years, but then I realized that most of us know monocles from TV anyway, not from real-life.
ZashI should get monocle
mathieuiMy monocycle just fell
Zash*monoclepop*
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jonaswmoparisthebest, :-O
jonasw(a) timing, and (b) teabags?! heresy!
moparisthebestZash: I refrained from mentioning I then ice it and put in copious amounts of sugar for fear of British retribution
jonaswmoparisthebest, that has its uses and would also be amazing if automated
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dwdmoparisthebest, Making tea is just boiling water, a teabag, a mug, and some milk once ready.
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Ge0rGewww, milk!
dwdmoparisthebest, I know some people like to faff about a bit with loose tea and so on, but it basically tastes the same whether decent tea leaves are in a bag or not.
dwdGe0rG, Yes, of course. Otherwise Wrong.
moparisthebestsome people put milk in coffee here, never seen that with tea, it's funny how little things like that are totally different in different places
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Ge0rGI've tried tea with milk once or twice, and it was a shocking experience.
jonaswit really depends on the tea
dwdmoparisthebest, Totally wrong in some places you mean.
jonaswsome Assam with milk -- great. earl grey with milk -- eww
moparisthebestis there more than one kind of tea? /sarcasm :)
dwdjonasw, Ah, I was worried you were about to suggest that fruit infusions were tea.
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jonaswdwd, eww fruit infusions
dwdjonasw, In which case, obviously, you'd have been Wrong many times over.
moparisthebestI only ever drink warm/hot tea when I'm sick once or twice a year
moparisthebestsweet tea though, that's a different story
dwdmoparisthebest, That is a bizarre American thing. Probably not helped by being inflicted by Lipton's Yellow Label and not any of the decent stuff.
Ge0rGdo two Wrongs make one Right?
dwdYellow Label is both the world's most popular tea, and simultaneously not sold in the UK because we like halfway decent stuff.
moparisthebestis uh, 'sun tea' a thing elsewhere?
dwdGe0rG, Well, tea without milk is Wrong, and fruit infusions are Wrong, obviously, but fruit infusions without milk is curiously less Wrong than with milk.
moparisthebeston a hot summer day we put tea bags and water in a clear glass jar and sit it in the sun all day
moparisthebestthen of course sugar and refrigerate it
dwdmoparisthebest, Not seen that one before. Can't really see why you'd want to do that over just boiling water through teabags. (Through would have the same effect of reducing the tannins, which you probably want for ice tea variants).
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mathieuiI ordered iced tea in the US, was expecting the lipton peach soda, came out with half a gallon of bad tea with ice
SamWhited> Probably not helped by being inflicted by Lipton's Yellow Label and not any of the decent stuff.
That's the point, sweet tea requires a little bit of really crappy tea with your sugar! It's just how things work.
SamWhitedIf you're using good tea you're doing it wrong.
Ge0rGit looks like the controversy about tea is even larger than the controversy about MIX
mathieuimaybe this could go in the council agenda
SamWhitedAlthough, while Lipton is acceptable, you need Tetly if you want really good sweet tea. Trust a man who grew up in Georgia.
jonaswwhat’s georgia
jonasw;-)
dwdYou have Tetley's?
dwdjonasw, Country just south of Russia.
SamWhitedWe are the home of sweet tea, comrade!
Ge0rGIn Soviet Russia, there was only bad Chinese tea.
arcOK that's it, xmpp tea room must happen now
SamWhiteddwd: I'm not sure if it's the same, it's the generic bad black tea blend though, not any directrix type
SamWhited*sigh* phones.
SamWhitedCan't type.
dwdI think they only do the one thing. Presumably not advertised by Yorkshiremen in flat caps in Georgia, though?
arcThat's actually kind of a brilliant thing for a con, instead of a plain old booth, host a tea room.
dwdSamWhited, Same company, all right. Here it's https://www.tetley.co.uk/our-teas/our-full-range
SamWhitedAh yup, that's the one. They're also very popular here (but only for iced and sweet tea)
SamWhitedWell, "here", I'm in Texas now and that's not really the same, sweet tea confuses places here.
mathieuiarc, offering hot tea at fosdem sounds like a plan
Link Mauvearc, the Quadrature du Net does that at CCC.
dwdarc, We could use Lloyd's XMPP code for controlling the kettle, too.
mathieui(tbh the concept has been quite pioneered by the "quadrateahouse" at each international CCC event)
Link MauveIt’s a great way to get random people to discuss together.
ZashXEP it!
SamWhitedI thought teapots all implemented HTTP via RFC 2324?
ZashExtensible Tea and Coffee Protocol
Link MauveZash, sounds way too syn and ack ridden.
ZashPfft, HTTP, who uses that anymore?
Ge0rGcan't we just have somebody publish the beverages?
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Zash<stream:tea to="ge0rg">...
arcBulk tea is cheap. Dirt cheap
Ge0rGIs that RFC 2324 compatible?
SamWhitedI do like this idea … xmpp tea room. I hope I can actually make it to the summit, we'll see. Trying to convince my company, but probably only can if one of my talks is accepted.
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dwdErm. Did disco#item elements once have an "action" attribute?
dwdProbably one for ralphm, Kev.
dwdPerhaps zinid too. Basically it's before my time anyway.
jonaswoh dear, I’m afraid of this becoming a meme :)
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Ge0rGjonasw: fortunately, there is no way to send links to XMPP messages.
jonaswisn’t there?
jonaswhttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html
mathieuijonasw, btw, didn’t you have to make some tweaks to CCG after implementing it in poezio?
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jonaswmathieui, just pushed them, waiting for the docker hub build
Ge0rGjonasw: we don't even have solved message IDs.
jonaswGe0rG, before solving message IDs, let’s solve message routing
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Ge0rGjonasw: right.
danielis this scheduled before or after world peace?
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jonaswdifficult to compare things to NaN
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ralphmGe0rG: XMPP is all about distributed systems and decentralization. Why would we need to discuss particular topics in one place only?
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jonaswralphm, especially in this situation having a central discussion venue is vital.
jonaswit helps the various distributed entities to have a common view on things
jonaswwhich is important for interop
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Ge0rGralphm: nothing wrong with that, except that most of our distributed venues are not based on XMPP anyway.
danielwell twitter is mostly about user engagement and marketing. it's not meant to have a meaningful discussion
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ralphmI don't see a problem with that. Each communication medium has different properties. I like e-mail for long-form discussions, but don't like it for IM-style usage (which I see a lot in corporations). Twitter is nice for public snippets. XMPP is good as a basis for building IM systems.
ralphmThere are a bunch of things I like about Slack
ralphm(which could totally be build on top of XMPP)
Ge0rGif only we had a proper slack clone on top of XMPP
ralphmGo fund a team to make it
ralphmIt is not a technology issue at all
Ge0rGI know.
Ge0rGPeople are reinventing IM all the time, and burning venture capital on the way.
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ralphmI disagree this is a waste of money. Also I don't care how VCs spend their money.
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ralphmSlack has a useful proposition that makes it more viable for teams like mine at work to collaborate than if we had to use any current offering based on XMPP.
ralphmOf course there are a bunch of things I don't like about it.
ralphmE.g. I think their channels should be more like MIX, with orthogonal streams of data
ralphmNow I have to ~force~ educate people to not put notifications of integrations into the same channel as where discussions happen.
Ge0rGralphm: I'm pretty sure there is a market niche for a Slack clone that is deployed on premise and can be configured to follow archival / access policies.
ralphmYes
Ge0rGAnd XMPP has all the building blocks for that.
moparisthebestwhat does it give you other than the bots for integration? (over a XMPP MUC)
Ge0rGBut people rather do it on top of HTTP REST JSON.
ralphmmoparisthebest: what Slack offers to us?
moparisthebestyes
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: Slack is easy to "deploy"
zinidBecause xmpp is complex
moparisthebestin the same way as it's easy to just use a public xmpp server and muc I guess, that can't be the reason?
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: have you ever used Slack? And any of the XMPP client offerings?
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: there is a world of a difference, UX wise
ralphmmoparisthebest: consistent UI across platforms, including desktop, easy to configure integrations (even by non-technical people), search, rich(er) formatting, snippets, mentions, team-mentions, (automatic) snoozing, reminders, (custom) emoji, emoji responses, unlimited editing/deletion of previously sent messages.
moparisthebestno I haven't used slack that's why I'm asking :)
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: try it out for a week or two
moparisthebestunlimited editing/deletion of previous messages isn't a security problem?
moparisthebestespecially for companies that must keep records or whatever?
ralphmmoparisthebest: at this point in time, anyone developing XMPP clients or servers, or participates in the standards discussions thereof, should use Slack to understand what we're up against.
ralphmI am tempted to disqualify people's opinion based on that.
Ge0rGralphm: I agree
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jonaswgood, we need a team which does that kind of research
jonaswbecause I cannot take any client serious which only runs in the browser.
Ge0rGSlack is the mirror that's held up to XMPP client developers to show how they failed.
moparisthebestwhat if it's against your religion to use proprietary software? :)
ralphmmoparisthebest: enlightenment?
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: then pay somebody to use it and look at them doing it.
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ralphmGe0rG: I think limiting that to just XMPP client devs is not fair.
Ge0rGralphm: maybe, but in the context of the XSF it is a very valid limitation.
moparisthebestother's opinions are helpful anyway, I can open slack, but if I'm not using it daily or in a team or whatever I can't really get a good feel over what it does better or worse
ralphmjonasw: totally, you at least need browser, iOS and Android. Desktop apps seem to be a thing still. I heard that my Mac using colleagues use the desktop version of Slack. I just run it in the browser.
moparisthebestplenty of people seem to like riot.im, I found it confusing after a few minutes and quit
Ge0rGI'd even go as far as to say that renaming from JSF to XSF and thus shifting focus away from software to protocol was a bad idea.
ralphmmoparisthebest: I agree it helps if you need it for work or another shared project where there is regular usage.
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SamWhitedYou should start a new JSF, the XMPP Software Foundation (also called XSF).
ralphmGe0rG: that's disingenious. The XSF/JSF has always been about standards.
Ge0rGralphm: I think that it's rather easy to port a modern web app onto the Electron operating system, so having [web, ios, android] might suffice.
SamWhitedstops being unhelpful and goes back to actual work.
Ge0rGSamWhited: I'd call it the Jabber Software Foundation and focus on IM client interop.
ralphmGe0rG: we didn't do much about software, but named it like Apache. The furthest we got was hosting JabberStudio.
moparisthebestah yes that's what I want, a chat client that uses more resources than my java IDE
moparisthebestoh wait I have that, it's called running a windows 7 VM just for lync :'(
Ge0rGralphm: my point is: we are sorely missing an entity that has a focus on software and UX of XMPP
KevGe0rG: Me :p
moparisthebestI thought I'd seen a lot of focus on UX lately Ge0rG
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: you mean the Styles XEP?
moparisthebestnot everyone has to focus on the same thing
Ge0rGKev: then you know the answer to daniel's initial question on how to name MUCs?
moparisthebestwell yea that's a good example, but also UX considerations in other XEPs
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: I'm trying to push UX in the XSF for around two years now, and more often than not I hear the "we are about protocols, not UIs" response.
KevGe0rG: I use 'rooms'. Users tend to use different terms based on their backgrounds - we come up against 'chats' quite a lot.
moparisthebestah I don't think I've seen that
ralphm'room', 'chat room', 'group', 'group chat', 'or 'channel' are just fine
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ralphm'
Ge0rGralphm: just fine for whom?
moparisthebestI don't know why you couldn't make a few UX standards recommendations in XEPs, some do right?
Ge0rGralphm: if you are helping a friend configure an XMPP client over the phone, do you tell them to look for rooms, chatrooms, group chats, channels or all of the above?
ralphmFacebook had a thing called Rooms
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Ge0rGI think it wouldn't hurt to standardize on a name for those, and even to provide some i18n lookups for that name.
moparisthebestGe0rG, you ask what client first and go from there I guess
ralphmSo this is the problem right, unlike Slack or WhatsApp, there's not a single entity creating XMPP-based IM clients.
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Ge0rGmoparisthebest: so I need to remember the client->name mapping for all commonly used XMPP clients?
jonaswmoparisthebest, haha
moparisthebestor, you do what you suggested Ge0rG , and write one-client-to-rule-them-all using electron or whatever the hot framework of the day is, and have everyone use that?
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: that's not what I suggest.
jonaswmoparisthebest, I find it amazing how ignorant people can be about the software they’re using and how hard it can be to figure out what they use.
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: I suggest to have a common glossary for client developers, see https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Usability/Glossary
jonaswthey just use jabber and it takes time to figure out they run xabber/yaxim/conversations.
intosiGe0rG: if I'm helping friends, I tend to use the wrong terms anyway, as different operating systems use different names for everything, and different translations vary wildly. My friends and family can usually cope just fine :)
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Ge0rGintosi: I'm sure you have smart friends & family :)
moparisthebestif I'm helping a friend set up xmpp over the phone I'll be telling them to install conversations and then go from there most likely
moparisthebestif you are walking them through at that level you have to know more details meh
ralphmI would probably not ever suggest 'conference' as a name, unless it was about AV ones
moparisthebestGe0rG, I think a glossary is a great idea
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Ge0rGIt's called Multi-User Chat.
ralphmI have a hard time helping my family and friends anyway, because they use apps in Dutch, which I hate.
Ge0rGor short "MUC" - a term that really nobody outside of the core XMPP community can relate to
intosi^ with ralphm on that
Ge0rGIf we had a database of jabber-related terms and their translations, you could use those when on support duty :P
moparisthebestthat's a different problem actually, translating technical terms sounds rough
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ralphmThat's why you shouldn't use them
ralphmGroup or Room translate really well
Zashralphm: And then comes "MIX"
moparisthebestmaybe you provide 1 UI since the user doesn't care, it's all a 'Group' to them
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moparisthebestI am basically the last person to try to make UI decisions, I can tell if I like something or not, but that's it
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moparisthebestI'm the only one I know personally that's been using KDE for the last 11 years, for example
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ralphmZash: for MIX the concept is still Room
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ralphmYou can even make MIX rooms be accessible via MUC if you put in the engineering effort
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dwdralphm, I think MIX is Channel, but yeah.
ralphmok
Ge0rGdwd: is that different from MUC?
ralphmSo yeah, we have MUC Rooms and MIX Channels
dwdGe0rG, MUC talks about Rooms. MIX talks about Channels, as I recall.
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Ge0rGdwd: why should we use different terms? To a user, it's all the same
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ralphmIt doesn't matter much, and if you really care, we could change it before going to Draft
ralphmYou'd have to rename some elements, though
Ge0rGI'm not sure you need to map XEP language into the UI 1:1
moparisthebestwhat does what the protocol calls protocol-level things have to do with UI ?
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Ge0rGgot to go. read you later.
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dwdNice if they align, though. Makes it much simpler for newcomers.
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Flowlovetox: regarding your question yesterday: Does that https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/541 suit your needs?
jonaswFlow, any reason you went for a patch-level version number increase?
jonaswI would like to get semver-like versioning in XEPs, if possible.
jonaswthis feels more like a 0.3 than a 0.2.1 to me
lovetoxflow yes this solves the problem, but then it seems even harder to solve the use case about invalidating keys
lovetoxbecause now you have no notifications at all anymore after sub
lovetoxi think if we design this, we should at least make distributing and retracting keys have a good workflow
lovetoxi think there is no way around having something like a metanode
lovetoxthat tells us new keys are there and old keys should be rewoked
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Flowlovetox, the service still would send notifications if a new item is added, no?
lovetoxem no?
lovetoxlast published item is set to on_sub or never
Flowjonasw, I don't care that mutch, but then again, it rather had the deferred status change a patch level
Flowlovetox, isn't send_last_published_item a per node setting?
jonaswFlow, did you mean "I’d rather have had the deferred status change a patch level"?
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Flowand, I think a PubSub server would still send notifications on publish, regardless of the value of send_last_published_item
Flowjonasw, that yes :)
lovetoxbut we dont receive that publish if we are not online
jonaswFlow, I’m not set on the version change level for deferrals, really. I’m not sure if minor or patch makes more sense.
Flowlovetox, why not?
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jonaswI’m happy with changing it to patch, nobody else voiced concern about that yet.
Flow…if your service stores offline messages
jonaswChanging normative language should, imo, most of the time be minor level or major level, depending.
lovetoxflow this is seems like totally new territory
lovetoxnow suddenly the xep depends on offline message, and mam
Flowlovetox, also you could still query the node, that is how it was meant to be used primarly
lovetoxi thought we polling xeps are bad
FlowYou shouldn't really try to rely on having received the latest status of the node
Flowlovetox, depends on the case i'd say
jonaswpolling is annoying
Flowall generalization are bad
jonaswthat’s not true! ;-)
lovetoxFlow, it seems you try really hard to make your approach at this work
Flowlovetox, I haven't heard an alternative
Flowyou said something like the "do the OMEMO approach", but I think OMEMO also uses PEP?
lovetoxi did that at least 3 times now
Flowlovetox, must have missed it
lovetoxintroduce a metanode
lovetoxclients publish valid keyids to it
Flowbrb
lovetoxclients receive these on every start
Zash"on_presence"?
lovetoxyes
lovetoxthen clients do a poll at node:keyid if the dont know the key id
lovetoxand get the key
lovetoxthat way you have minimal traffic, 2 or 3 keyids is small
lovetoxand only have to pull keys if they are new to you
lovetoxat the same moment you could say, every key that is not inside the metanode, has to be retracted
FlowI had to think about it a bit more, and I'd like to see a list discussion regarding this
ZashWhat's the context here?
FlowZash, OX sending the full OpenPGP pubkey on every available presncen if you don't configure the node to not do so
Flowlovetox, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea
Flowplease post on list
lovetoxi already have haha, but i dig it out again and write something :)
ZashSo you'd like something like how the avatars and stuff works?
lovetoxyes shit, why didnt i thought of it, thats way easier way to describe it
lovetoxits exactly like avatars work
jonasw:D
jonaswI wonder whether there should be an informational XEP for bulk storage in PEP
jonaswso that people writing XEPs have something to base their work on
lovetoxFlow, we really should get this going, people are annoyed by OMEMOs perfect forward secrecy
Zashjonasw: Like 222/223, or what do you mean by bulk?
moparisthebestI also think OX is perfect for building Onion XMPP on top of, fyi
jonaswZash, I don’t think that 222/223 address the costs of sending the whole contents on each connection.
jonasw(so maybe an informational one which addresses the issues of on_presence + large amounts of data)
jonasw(e.g. base64’d crypto keys, avatars, …)
ZashI believe you can have notifications that don't include the payload.
jonaswwhich doesn’t help because PEP/PubSub often only allows for one item
jonasw(okay, the @id is probably enough if it’s randomly generated by the server to know that you need to poll the data…)
ZashDid I post to the list about me thinking that PEP should have even fewer required features, and a separate extended PEP for more advanced usecases?
ZashLike 222/223, if those weren't Informational
jonaswZash, yes, I thnik so
zinidZash: why? users will anyway annoy you to death and you will end up implementing advanced version
Zashzinid: They already do and I'm already on it.
moparisthebestcould just discover PGP keys via DNS instead, at least it's already spec'd out and implemented
zinidZash: so why do you need this separation then? :)
ZashBecause I like separation
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ZashA bunch of the simpler things like Mood and Activity don't require all the features mandated by PEP, so why not make the minimal baseline be smaller so new implementations won't have to figure out what MUSTs they can ignore.
ZashAnd a more clear target for stage two, or whatyoucallit
Ge0rGAnd then people end up storing their bookmarks in private XML.
ZashIt'll inevitably end up being all of xep-60 in the end anyways
ZashGe0rG: make bookmarks depend on 22[23] (whichever was the private one)
Zash-xep 222
BunnehZash: Persistent Storage of Public Data via PubSub (Informational, Active, 2008-09-08)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0222.html
Zash-xep 223
BunnehZash: Persistent Storage of Private Data via PubSub (Informational, Active, 2008-09-08)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0223.html
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SamWhitedAfter our discussion this morning I came over all British and had my afternoon cup of of Earl Grey with milk in it… dwd is a corrupting influence.
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moparisthebestI always assumed Earl grey was French because of jean-luc Picard liking it so much
SamWhitedI always assumed it was from space.
waqasSomething something Plan 9
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SamWhitedDid Picard work at Bell labs? I don't remember that being a part of the series.