XSF Discussion - 2017-11-21

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Ge0rG said "Zash: Maybe. But maybe an "active" was just because you were switching tabs..." I do agree with that, that doesn't mean that you read the message or anything.

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Maxime_Buquet_Application_2017 tada.

just in time

:-°

my business was already closed for the day!

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

> Did I mention my love to race conditions already? If yaxim receives a MUC message from my own nickname, it marks the MUC as read and removes pending notifications. Now this also happens if this is a message I sent from this yaxim instance, and it clears notifications that happened between me sending the message and receiving the reflection. Did you find a way to fix this Ge0rG?

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

daniel: I could try to detect messages sent by this instance, using the message-ID or body-content heuristic, and then ignore this "outgoing" message for the sake of marking as read

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Someone at work just started sharing this around and I hadn't seen it before; looks interesting though: http://archipelproject.org/

Looks dead tho

yah, been a while since it was updated

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

SamWhited: wait, who wrote this?

No idea

there's a team list on their github, i recognize none of the names

this looks pretty awesome actually.

im eagerly waiting for the election results, mostly to see if I'm finally free :-P

SamWhited: dead or not, its AGPLv3 and looks ripe for someone to take it on

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

I was suprised that I didn't recognize any of the names

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

The same happened to me while ago when I discovered the project. A bit like a rollercoaster regarding my feelings, from "woah looks great, XMPP!" to "oh... It seems a bit dead..."

maybe it just works™

maybe it was perfect, so nobody had any reason to get involved

maybe it was so broken, everyone who even looked at it got burnt out instantly

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

SamWhited: how was this found by your coworker?

Guus: No idea

he guys, everybody ready for our annual meeting?

yup

what was he searching for? Why did he share this around? XMPP aficionado?

No, we use HipChat so he wondered if we could plug it up to that

they have a CLA, so unlikely to get a lot of 3rd party help

unless you do a real fork

Alex, don't let us keep you

SamWhited: did you remind your coworker that hipchat doesnt federate?

here is our Agenda for today

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2017-11-21

2) Call for Quorum

as you can see 44 members already voted via memberbot, so we have a quorum for this election

3) Items Subject to a Vote

board and council elections, you can find all applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2017

4) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

(oh I totally forgot about this despite it being in my calendar)

hi Alex, thanks for doing this :)

anybody here who has not voted yet, and wants to do so in this meeting?

if not, I will shutdown memberbot and start counting

okay, looks like everybody voted

so let me shutdown the bot and work on teh results

still counting...

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

5) Announcement of Voting Results

*drumroll*

when you reload the page you can see the results:

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2017-11-21#Announcement_of_Voting_Results

oh shit, we have a tie

oh ya, we have

Alex, could you sort the tables? (I don’t want to interfere with your editing of the article)

(by # of yes votes)

yes, working on it

make the wiki table start with this: {| class="wikitable sortable"

or that

that will give you sortable (clickable) columns.

Council: ======== Dave Cridland 35 9 Kevin Smith 33 11 Daniel Gultsch 33 11 Georg Lukas 32 12 Sam Whited 29 15 Emmanuel Gil Peyrot 23 21 Arc Riley 19 25 Board: ====== Matthew Wild 38 6 Guus der Kinderen 37 7 Ralph Meijer 33 11 Martin Hewitt 32 12 Arc Riley 29 15 Nicolas Vérité 29 15

those are the sorted results

Congrats to the new board and council!

we need to resolve the tie first

Do we have procedures for ties?

table is also sortable now

Do Arc and Nico get to have a fight to the death now?

:D

Let's see if I can click that link without my tablet dying this time...

do we have to re-vote between Arc and nyco?

council has a tie too but it doesn't matter

yes, top 5 in council are: Dave Cridland Kevin Smith Daniel Gultsch Georg Lukas Sam Whited

Oh, that's interesting. A point of order that I have no clue what the right thing to do is.

Kev: unprecidented

Congrats Arc and Nyco, you've broken me :D

we did not have a tie in the last 12 years IIRC, so lets look at the bylaws, its covered somewhere there

"Fourth, in the case of a tie for the final remaining position, the final individual shall be chosen in accordance with the procedures defined in “RFC 3797: Publicly Verifiable Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection” published by the Internet Engineering Task Force."

from Section 3.13 Voting Procedure for Election of Board and Council.

no fight to the death then

random.org?

Nomcom. Delightful :)

Kev, since you know points of orders, what happens to pending votes from people who now leave council? ✏

What a great time to be alive!

Any open voting gets restarted by new Council generally, but I don't think that's exactly stated.

I suggest that we don't need to resolve the tie right now, as the voting part has been completed, which is what's needed for the meeting.

And it'd be better to take our time and check we follow the nomcom rules properly than rush something and open ourselves up to someone complaining.

Better to resolve it out of meeting, e.g. tomorrow or whatever.

Kev: (Y)

So I motion to adjourn.

Seconded

+1

+1

+1

Completely agree, yes.

7) Formal Adjournment

See above :D

/ me bangs the gavel

Thanks again Alex.

And thanks to outgoing Council/Board, and to everyone who's stood this year.

Thanks all!

And thanks to everyone from last term's council/board and everyone who stood this year.

And now I'm sat in a theatre with a show starting in 3 minutes, so I'm vanishing :D

(what he said)

Alex, your gavel banging wasn’t xep-0245-valid therefore I consider this meeting moot

(minus the theatre bit, but do enjoy, Kev)

Thank you very much guys. So excited about what is to come and very thankful for what has been done. Congratulation to the ones that know the result and best wishes to the ones that will have to wait for a final result.

... {xep 245}?

Zash: The /me Command (Informational, Active, 2009-01-21) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0245.html

mathieui: you may file a formal complaint

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Wow, so my power failed right in time to completely miss the meeting. Congratulations, everyone!

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Ge0rG, congratulations, you

🙇

mathieui: would now be the appropriate time to complain that you broke my poezio logging patch that replaced the incorrect 'narrow non-BREAK SPACE' (U+202F) with the proper 'NO-BREAK SPACE' (U+00A0) by replacing the 'NO-BREAK SPACE' (U+00A0) with a 'SPACE' (U+0020)?

why don’t you like the narrow non-break space?

Because that's not what the log file parser expects, and everybody would have to rewrite all their log files

Ge0rG: Indeed; congrats! We have a meeting tomorrow at the usual time (which I would tell you except that I always forget what that is) if you want to show up and observe!

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

SamWhited: I hope I can make it, I need to travel 1100km and attend a multi hour meeting tomorrow

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Sam - actually, I don't think there's a new Council meeting until new Council agree on a time.

We don't automatically do one at the time agreed by previous Council.

Kev: Oh? I thought there was a week or two of overlap before the old council was actually done, is that not true?

Not unless my memory is failing. Once the elections are done, new Council/Board come in.

*nods* thanks

Fire up the memberbot! We need to elect a meeting time!

I think we can probably do without memberbot for this.

I can't do anything tonight, but tomorrow I can make sure the Council list is updated (please mail me to let me know what address all of New Council want to use) and we can sort a time out there.

Kev: what kind of address do you need?

email please.

Kev: georg@op-co.de

Sam - as the only person for whom normal meeting time is 'early', is the normal time convenient for you? So if we had a thread tomorrow and could agree to do that, would you be able to make it?

Thanks Georg.

Kev: The normal time works great for me

I'll try to remember to sort out the list first thing, and start a thread.

Unless someone beats me to it.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the Official Last Time?

I thought we voted to have a normal meeting next-week-same-time last week which is why I thought there was another meeting or two with the old council left

Sam: I suspect people forgot when the election was (I did).

Georg: 4PM UTC, I think.

Although I think this year's Council might have done something odd, so I'm not sure (where something odd is not anchoring to UK winter/summer time)

4PM UTC WFM, irregardless of how much daylight gets saved

At least in general, tomorrow will be a close call because my appointment ends at 4 and I need to take a taxi and a train right after

Ge0rG: I forget, where are you located?

SamWhited: Germany

Ah, right

Georg - so 4 tomorrow wouldn't work for you?

I think the second act's about to start, so I might vanish suddenly.

Kev: what are you seeing?

Kev: I don't know yet, it really depends on the appointment.

Tiger Bay. You won't have heard of it :)

I've seen the movie… not sure if related.

Kev: I know for sure I can't make anything earlier than 4

Sam: What's your window, and we can try to arrange something within that for tomorrow, I guess.

Once Dave and Daniel are around.

With some luck I'll be sitting in the train station lounge with good wifi, and not on the train with bad mobile data

1300 to 2100 UTC with some leeway on either side

2nd act. o7

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Kev, Ge0rG, SamWhited, daniel - I'm free all afternoon tomorrow. Also congratulations.