XSF Discussion - 2017-11-21


  1. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  2. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  3. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  4. SouL

    Ge0rG said "Zash: Maybe. But maybe an "active" was just because you were switching tabs..." I do agree with that, that doesn't mean that you read the message or anything.

  5. pep.

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Maxime_Buquet_Application_2017 tada.

  6. Ge0rG

    just in time

  7. pep.

    :-°

  8. Guus

    my business was already closed for the day!

  9. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  10. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  11. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  12. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  13. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  14. daniel

    > Did I mention my love to race conditions already? If yaxim receives a MUC message from my own nickname, it marks the MUC as read and removes pending notifications. Now this also happens if this is a message I sent from this yaxim instance, and it clears notifications that happened between me sending the message and receiving the reflection. Did you find a way to fix this Ge0rG?

  15. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  16. Ge0rG

    daniel: I could try to detect messages sent by this instance, using the message-ID or body-content heuristic, and then ignore this "outgoing" message for the sake of marking as read

  17. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  18. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  19. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  20. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  21. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  22. SamWhited

    Someone at work just started sharing this around and I hadn't seen it before; looks interesting though: http://archipelproject.org/

  23. Zash

    Looks dead tho

  24. SamWhited

    yah, been a while since it was updated

  25. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  26. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  27. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  28. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  29. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  30. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  31. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  32. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  33. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  34. Arc

    SamWhited: wait, who wrote this?

  35. SamWhited

    No idea

  36. Arc

    there's a team list on their github, i recognize none of the names

  37. Arc

    this looks pretty awesome actually.

  38. Arc

    im eagerly waiting for the election results, mostly to see if I'm finally free :-P

  39. Arc

    SamWhited: dead or not, its AGPLv3 and looks ripe for someone to take it on

  40. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  41. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  42. SamWhited

    I was suprised that I didn't recognize any of the names

  43. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  44. SouL

    The same happened to me while ago when I discovered the project. A bit like a rollercoaster regarding my feelings, from "woah looks great, XMPP!" to "oh... It seems a bit dead..."

  45. mathieui

    maybe it just works™

  46. Zash

    maybe it was perfect, so nobody had any reason to get involved

  47. Zash

    maybe it was so broken, everyone who even looked at it got burnt out instantly

  48. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  49. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  50. Guus

    SamWhited: how was this found by your coworker?

  51. SamWhited

    Guus: No idea

  52. Alex

    he guys, everybody ready for our annual meeting?

  53. Arc

    yup

  54. Guus

    what was he searching for? Why did he share this around? XMPP aficionado?

  55. SamWhited

    No, we use HipChat so he wondered if we could plug it up to that

  56. Arc

    they have a CLA, so unlikely to get a lot of 3rd party help

  57. Arc

    unless you do a real fork

  58. Guus

    Alex, don't let us keep you

  59. Arc

    SamWhited: did you remind your coworker that hipchat doesnt federate?

  60. Alex bangs the gavel

  61. Alex

    here is our Agenda for today

  62. Alex

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2017-11-21

  63. Alex

    2) Call for Quorum

  64. Alex

    as you can see 44 members already voted via memberbot, so we have a quorum for this election

  65. Alex

    3) Items Subject to a Vote

  66. Alex

    board and council elections, you can find all applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2017

  67. Alex

    4) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting

  68. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  69. jonasw

    (oh I totally forgot about this despite it being in my calendar)

  70. jonasw

    hi Alex, thanks for doing this :)

  71. Alex

    anybody here who has not voted yet, and wants to do so in this meeting?

  72. Alex

    if not, I will shutdown memberbot and start counting

  73. Alex

    okay, looks like everybody voted

  74. Alex

    so let me shutdown the bot and work on teh results

  75. Alex starts counting

  76. Alex

    still counting...

  77. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  78. Alex

    5) Announcement of Voting Results

  79. Zash

    *drumroll*

  80. Alex

    when you reload the page you can see the results:

  81. Alex

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2017-11-21#Announcement_of_Voting_Results

  82. Arc

    oh shit, we have a tie

  83. Alex

    oh ya, we have

  84. jonasw

    Alex, could you sort the tables? (I don’t want to interfere with your editing of the article)

  85. jonasw

    (by # of yes votes)

  86. Alex

    yes, working on it

  87. Guus

    make the wiki table start with this: {| class="wikitable sortable"

  88. jonasw

    or that

  89. Guus

    that will give you sortable (clickable) columns.

  90. Alex

    Council: ======== Dave Cridland 35 9 Kevin Smith 33 11 Daniel Gultsch 33 11 Georg Lukas 32 12 Sam Whited 29 15 Emmanuel Gil Peyrot 23 21 Arc Riley 19 25 Board: ====== Matthew Wild 38 6 Guus der Kinderen 37 7 Ralph Meijer 33 11 Martin Hewitt 32 12 Arc Riley 29 15 Nicolas Vérité 29 15

  91. Alex

    those are the sorted results

  92. mathieui

    Congrats to the new board and council!

  93. Arc

    we need to resolve the tie first

  94. Zash

    Do we have procedures for ties?

  95. Alex

    table is also sortable now

  96. SamWhited

    Do Arc and Nico get to have a fight to the death now?

  97. mathieui

    :D

  98. Kev

    Let's see if I can click that link without my tablet dying this time...

  99. mathieui

    do we have to re-vote between Arc and nyco?

  100. Arc

    council has a tie too but it doesn't matter

  101. Alex

    yes, top 5 in council are: Dave Cridland Kevin Smith Daniel Gultsch Georg Lukas Sam Whited

  102. Kev

    Oh, that's interesting. A point of order that I have no clue what the right thing to do is.

  103. Arc

    Kev: unprecidented

  104. Kev

    Congrats Arc and Nyco, you've broken me :D

  105. Alex

    we did not have a tie in the last 12 years IIRC, so lets look at the bylaws, its covered somewhere there

  106. Guus

    "Fourth, in the case of a tie for the final remaining position, the final individual shall be chosen in accordance with the procedures defined in “RFC 3797: Publicly Verifiable Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection” published by the Internet Engineering Task Force."

  107. Guus

    from Section 3.13 Voting Procedure for Election of Board and Council.

  108. mathieui

    no fight to the death then

  109. SamWhited

    random.org?

  110. Kev

    Nomcom. Delightful :)

  111. jonasw

    Kev, since you know points of orders, what happens to open votes from people who now leave council?

  112. jonasw

    Kev, since you know points of orders, what happens to pending votes from people who now leave council?

  113. SouL

    What a great time to be alive!

  114. Kev

    Any open voting gets restarted by new Council generally, but I don't think that's exactly stated.

  115. Kev

    I suggest that we don't need to resolve the tie right now, as the voting part has been completed, which is what's needed for the meeting.

  116. Kev

    And it'd be better to take our time and check we follow the nomcom rules properly than rush something and open ourselves up to someone complaining.

  117. Kev

    Better to resolve it out of meeting, e.g. tomorrow or whatever.

  118. Alex

    Kev: (Y)

  119. Kev

    So I motion to adjourn.

  120. SamWhited

    Seconded

  121. Zash

    +1

  122. Arc

    +1

  123. mathieui

    +1

  124. SouL

    Completely agree, yes.

  125. Alex

    7) Formal Adjournment

  126. Kev

    See above :D

  127. Alex

    / me bangs the gavel

  128. Kev

    Thanks again Alex.

  129. Kev

    And thanks to outgoing Council/Board, and to everyone who's stood this year.

  130. SamWhited

    Thanks all!

  131. Kev

    And thanks to everyone from last term's council/board and everyone who stood this year.

  132. Kev

    And now I'm sat in a theatre with a show starting in 3 minutes, so I'm vanishing :D

  133. Guus

    (what he said)

  134. mathieui

    Alex, your gavel banging wasn’t xep-0245-valid therefore I consider this meeting moot

  135. Guus

    (minus the theatre bit, but do enjoy, Kev)

  136. SouL

    Thank you very much guys. So excited about what is to come and very thankful for what has been done. Congratulation to the ones that know the result and best wishes to the ones that will have to wait for a final result.

  137. Zash

    ... {xep 245}?

  138. Bunneh

    Zash: The /me Command (Informational, Active, 2009-01-21) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0245.html

  139. Zash

    mathieui: you may file a formal complaint

  140. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  141. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  142. Ge0rG

    Wow, so my power failed right in time to completely miss the meeting. Congratulations, everyone!

  143. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  144. mathieui

    Ge0rG, congratulations, you

  145. Ge0rG

    🙇

  146. Ge0rG

    mathieui: would now be the appropriate time to complain that you broke my poezio logging patch that replaced the incorrect 'narrow non-BREAK SPACE' (U+202F) with the proper 'NO-BREAK SPACE' (U+00A0) by replacing the 'NO-BREAK SPACE' (U+00A0) with a 'SPACE' (U+0020)?

  147. mathieui

    why don’t you like the narrow non-break space?

  148. Ge0rG

    Because that's not what the log file parser expects, and everybody would have to rewrite all their log files

  149. SamWhited

    Ge0rG: Indeed; congrats! We have a meeting tomorrow at the usual time (which I would tell you except that I always forget what that is) if you want to show up and observe!

  150. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  151. Ge0rG

    SamWhited: I hope I can make it, I need to travel 1100km and attend a multi hour meeting tomorrow

  152. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  153. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  154. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  155. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  156. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  157. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  158. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  159. Kev

    Sam - actually, I don't think there's a new Council meeting until new Council agree on a time.

  160. Kev

    We don't automatically do one at the time agreed by previous Council.

  161. SamWhited

    Kev: Oh? I thought there was a week or two of overlap before the old council was actually done, is that not true?

  162. Kev

    Not unless my memory is failing. Once the elections are done, new Council/Board come in.

  163. SamWhited

    *nods* thanks

  164. Ge0rG

    Fire up the memberbot! We need to elect a meeting time!

  165. Kev

    I think we can probably do without memberbot for this.

  166. Kev

    I can't do anything tonight, but tomorrow I can make sure the Council list is updated (please mail me to let me know what address all of New Council want to use) and we can sort a time out there.

  167. Ge0rG

    Kev: what kind of address do you need?

  168. Kev

    email please.

  169. Ge0rG

    Kev: georg@op-co.de

  170. Kev

    Sam - as the only person for whom normal meeting time is 'early', is the normal time convenient for you? So if we had a thread tomorrow and could agree to do that, would you be able to make it?

  171. Kev

    Thanks Georg.

  172. SamWhited

    Kev: The normal time works great for me

  173. Kev

    I'll try to remember to sort out the list first thing, and start a thread.

  174. Kev

    Unless someone beats me to it.

  175. Ge0rG

    Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the Official Last Time?

  176. SamWhited

    I thought we voted to have a normal meeting next-week-same-time last week which is why I thought there was another meeting or two with the old council left

  177. Kev

    Sam: I suspect people forgot when the election was (I did).

  178. Kev

    Georg: 4PM UTC, I think.

  179. Kev

    Although I think this year's Council might have done something odd, so I'm not sure (where something odd is not anchoring to UK winter/summer time)

  180. Ge0rG

    4PM UTC WFM, irregardless of how much daylight gets saved

  181. Ge0rG

    At least in general, tomorrow will be a close call because my appointment ends at 4 and I need to take a taxi and a train right after

  182. SamWhited

    Ge0rG: I forget, where are you located?

  183. Ge0rG

    SamWhited: Germany

  184. SamWhited

    Ah, right

  185. Kev

    Georg - so 4 tomorrow wouldn't work for you?

  186. Kev

    I think the second act's about to start, so I might vanish suddenly.

  187. SamWhited

    Kev: what are you seeing?

  188. Ge0rG

    Kev: I don't know yet, it really depends on the appointment.

  189. Kev

    Tiger Bay. You won't have heard of it :)

  190. SamWhited

    I've seen the movie… not sure if related.

  191. Ge0rG

    Kev: I know for sure I can't make anything earlier than 4

  192. Kev

    Sam: What's your window, and we can try to arrange something within that for tomorrow, I guess.

  193. Kev

    Once Dave and Daniel are around.

  194. Ge0rG

    With some luck I'll be sitting in the train station lounge with good wifi, and not on the train with bad mobile data

  195. SamWhited

    1300 to 2100 UTC with some leeway on either side

  196. Kev

    2nd act. o7

  197. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  198. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  199. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  200. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  201. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  202. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  203. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  204. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  205. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  206. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  207. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  208. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  209. Bjc set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  210. dwd

    Kev, Ge0rG, SamWhited, daniel - I'm free all afternoon tomorrow. Also congratulations.