XSF Discussion - 2017-11-22

  1. lskdjf has left
  2. lskdjf has left
  3. lskdjf has left
  4. Arc has joined
  5. lskdjf has joined
  6. Bjc has joined
  7. Bjc set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  8. Bjc has left
  9. lskdjf has joined
  10. la|r|ma has left
  11. la|r|ma has left
  12. vanitasvitae has left
  13. Bjc has joined
  14. Bjc set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  15. la|r|ma has left
  16. Bjc has left
  17. Bjc has joined
  18. Bjc set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  19. Bjc has left
  20. lskdjf has left
  21. la|r|ma has left
  22. Arc has left
  23. Arc has joined
  24. la|r|ma has left
  25. la|r|ma has left
  26. la|r|ma has left
  27. la|r|ma has left
  28. la|r|ma has left
  29. la|r|ma has left
  30. la|r|ma has left
  31. la|r|ma has left
  32. la|r|ma has left
  33. la|r|ma has left
  34. Arc has left
  35. Arc has joined
  36. Arc has left
  37. Arc has joined
  38. la|r|ma has left
  39. la|r|ma has left
  40. lskdjf has left
  41. lskdjf has left
  42. la|r|ma has left
  43. la|r|ma has left
  44. la|r|ma has left
  45. la|r|ma has left
  46. la|r|ma has left
  47. la|r|ma has left
  48. la|r|ma has left
  49. la|r|ma has left
  50. la|r|ma has left
  51. la|r|ma has left
  52. jjrh has left
  53. jjrh has left
  54. jjrh has left
  55. jjrh has left
  56. Arc has left
  57. Arc has joined
  58. la|r|ma has left
  59. la|r|ma has left
  60. jjrh has left
  61. pep. has joined
  62. jjrh has left
  63. jjrh has left
  64. lskdjf has left
  65. pep. has left
  66. lskdjf has left
  67. lskdjf has left
  68. Zash has left
  69. lskdjf has left
  70. lskdjf has left
  71. daniel has left
  72. daniel has joined
  73. lskdjf has left
  74. lskdjf has left
  75. lskdjf has left
  76. lskdjf has left
  77. lskdjf has left
  78. lskdjf has left
  79. la|r|ma has joined
  80. Arc has left
  81. Arc has joined
  82. Arc has left
  83. lumi has joined
  84. la|r|ma has joined
  85. lskdjf has joined
  86. Steve Kille has left
  87. daniel has left
  88. mimi89999 has joined
  89. moparisthebest has left
  90. moparisthebest has joined
  91. tux has left
  92. tux has joined
  93. @Alacer has joined
  94. Valerian has joined
  95. @Alacer has left
  96. Syndace has left
  97. Syndace has joined
  98. efrit has joined
  99. Valerian has left
  100. Tobias has joined
  101. Ge0rG has left
  102. Ge0rG has left
  103. Ge0rG has left
  104. Guus has left
  105. SamWhited has left
  106. efrit has left
  107. Valerian has joined
  108. Valerian has left
  109. xnyhps has left
  110. xnyhps has left
  111. xnyhps has left
  112. goffi has joined
  113. Tobias has joined
  114. Tobias has joined
  115. daniel has joined
  116. arc has left
  117. arc has joined
  118. jcbrand has joined
  119. Martin has joined
  120. Kev has left
  121. nyco has left
  122. nyco has joined
  123. daniel has left
  124. daniel has joined
  125. marc has joined
  126. Ge0rG has left
  127. daniel has left
  128. daniel has joined
  129. lovetox has joined
  130. Steve Kille has left
  131. Steve Kille has left
  132. Steve Kille has joined
  133. daniel has left
  134. daniel has joined
  135. jubalh has joined
  136. tux Congratulations to the new council members!
  137. Steve Kille has left
  138. tux erm... And the new board members, too. :)
  139. tux (Somehow council elections were more prominent to me.)
  140. Syndace has left
  141. Syndace has joined
  142. mimi89999 has joined
  143. daniel dwd, Kev: yes I'm pretty mich available all day. So 1630Z or what ever you suggested works for me
  144. jcbrand has left
  145. Kev Fab, ta.
  146. lumi has joined
  147. Ge0rG I'm very hopeful regarding 1630Z as well. Might be a bit unresponsive while entering a train, but not absolutely unavailable.
  148. jcbrand has joined
  149. Ge0rG I've added the Minutes link to https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2017 and now I hope I'm not breaking the page-copy-paste process for next year's election.
  150. daniel has left
  151. nyco has left
  152. daniel has left
  153. Guus Who's formally going to apply the tie-breaking process for the remaining Board position? The secretary? Old Board? New Board?
  154. daniel has left
  155. Alex has joined
  156. la|r|ma has joined
  157. lskdjf has joined
  158. daniel has left
  159. daniel has left
  160. Alex Guus: was quickly reading RFC 3797 last night, but havent really understood how this algo works, needs more reading ;-)
  161. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  162. Ge0rG Alex: TL;DR: we need a pool of candidates (check) and an algorithm that will be applied on a future random-generating event (e.g. state lottery numbers)
  163. dwd Alex, Pick something happening soonish (like, say, Euromillions draw). Define how we get from that to an answer. We could just hash a string of the lottery result as 2-digit decimal ASCII numbers in ascending order. Then pull the least significant bit. Odd is Nÿco, even is Arc.
  164. Ge0rG dwd: should the ASCII string be terminated by a newline?
  165. dwd Ge0rG, I don't think it makes any (predictable) difference to the outcome, so we may as well for simplicity. I'd pick a strong hash algorithm just so we can claim that anyone fixing the Euromillions draw purely to pick one or other wouldn't know what to fix it to.
  166. dwd Although if they can fix the draw, please let me know so I can buy a ticket for once.
  167. Guus the RFC talks about combining various sources (eg: Euromillioins and the value of some stock exchange by the closing on a particular date in the future)
  168. Ge0rG dwd: let's just add a foot note that in case an XSF member wins a significant amount of money, we need to declare the result as void and choose another state-run lottery.
  169. jonasw dwd, :D
  170. dwd Guus, Yes, but that's to increase the entropy required, which is given in a formula - we only need a single bit as I understand things.
  171. Guus dwd, agreed. And as our pool size is fixed to '2', a simple odd/even determinator will work.
  172. Guus I'm primarily interested in making sure that someone is actively persuing a resolution at this point though :)
  173. Ge0rG RFC3739 §4 provides a string normalization algorithm.
  174. Alex I am not a gambler on only familiar with the german lottery, every weekend they pick 7 numbers out of a pool from 1 - 47 if I remember correctly
  175. jonasw i thought 6?
  176. jonasw ah, maybe seven, but the seventh has special meaning or something
  177. Alex jonasw: jonasw no idea, could be also 6 ;-)
  178. Guus we could use the least significant number in a stock exchange course?
  179. arc has left
  180. uc has left
  181. Guus Alex, not to add to the workload, but perhaps you should put up memberbot for the membership application q4?
  182. Guus submission deadline was yesterday
  183. daniel has left
  184. Alex Guus: yes, will be available later toda
  185. Guus tx
  186. Guus has left
  187. nyco has left
  188. la|r|ma has left
  189. Guus has left
  190. mimi89999 has left
  191. tux has left
  192. arc has joined
  193. Alex memberbot is up for the next voting period ;-)
  194. Ge0rG Looks like we have some Non-Reappliers?
  195. mathieui thanks Alex
  196. Alex Ge0rG: yes
  197. Alex I usually push them and remind several times by Email
  198. Ge0rG Right, the point of no return has been reached. There will be a Q5.
  199. Alex (Y)
  200. intosi has left
  201. la|r|ma has left
  202. la|r|ma has joined
  203. Ge0rG has left
  204. daniel has left
  205. Ge0rG has left
  206. Holger has left
  207. Holger has left
  208. daniel has left
  209. Ge0rG has left
  210. intosi has joined
  211. uc has joined
  212. arc has left
  213. arc has joined
  214. daniel has left
  215. lumi has joined
  216. @Alacer has joined
  217. dwd I've scribbled a suggestion for a concrete RFC 3739 implementation for us on the members@ list. It's dated for Friday, which seemed like a reasonable timeline. If there's something concretely wrong, please point it out. If you're happy with it, please say so. And please don't turn this into a bike shed.
  218. Ge0rG has left
  219. Ge0rG has left
  220. Ge0rG has joined
  221. @Alacer has left
  222. lovetox why not just take the last number of the euro million draw, and say if its 1-6 candidate 1 wins, 7-12 candidate 2
  223. lovetox i dont get why there is hashing needed
  224. Alex dwd: you take the last byte E0 in your example, or just the last char 0?
  225. Ge0rG has joined
  226. Martin has left
  227. Martin has joined
  228. Martin has left
  229. Martin has joined
  230. jere has joined
  231. Alex or do we just go from ricght to left until we find a "0" or "1" char?
  232. dwd Alex, Bit - 0 ends in a 0 bit. But loosely, odd numbers Nicolas, even numbers Arc.
  233. dwd lovetox, Makes it closer to RFC 3797, basically. It's certainly the most over-engineered coin-toss one could possibly wish for, I know.
  234. dwd Alex, So last characters 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, A, C, E would end in a 0-bit. The rest in a 1-bit.
  235. Alex ya
  236. Alex just did the Friday draw
  237. Alex data: hash: a33d86c56740f1291fde14dd6b89b371644a9023834ff71665bd79160dd90719
  238. Alex ending with a 1 bit, so would be Nicolas
  239. dwd Alex, I get the same result, indeed.
  240. Alex I second that proposal ;-)
  241. Alex was confused because you mentioned modulo in your email
  242. dwd Alex, Yeah... If you treat the hash as an enormous integer and modulo by the size of the list, it's the same thing. Just expressed in terms of the size of the list - which we know to be 2, so it's simple.
  243. Martin has left
  244. Martin has joined
  245. lovetox its true that you cant predict what the result on friday may be, but did you make sure both candidates have equal chance of winning?
  246. lovetox these are two different matters
  247. jere has joined
  248. jere has joined
  249. Alex dwd: ya, next time when we habe a tie with 3 or more ;-)
  250. Guus Thanks Dave
  251. Guus looks fine
  252. Martin has left
  253. Martin has joined
  254. nyco has left
  255. Martin has left
  256. Martin has joined
  257. dwd It'd be good to get agreement from arc and nyco, mind.
  258. dwd lovetox, We assume that the lottery is completely random across its range, and that the hash output has a uniform distribution of bits. I believe the first is a reasonable assumption, and I believe that disproving the second would lead to a sudden move to SHA-3.
  259. Zash As long as it is independently verifiable
  260. Zash So, link to this lottery ?
  261. dwd Zash, In my email - but also https://www.euro-millions.com/results
  262. Zash And a clear description of the algorithm so anyone an run it
  263. dwd Zash, Also in my email.
  264. Zash "That is covered in my email" ?
  265. dwd Zash, https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2017-November/008696.html <-- That email.
  266. lskdjf has left
  267. lskdjf has left
  268. lskdjf has left
  269. lskdjf has joined
  270. daniel has left
  271. lskdjf has left
  272. @Alacer has joined
  273. tux has left
  274. Kev has left
  275. ralphm Thanks for picking this up dwd
  276. Kev has joined
  277. lskdjf has left
  278. daniel has left
  279. daniel has joined
  280. @Alacer has left
  281. dwd ralphm, No prob. I felt it'd be better coming from someone off Board anyway. And I dimly recall being partially responsible for the RFC 3797 rule anyway after last time. (Which, as I recall, also involved Nyco - though I genuinely can't remember).
  282. blabla has joined
  283. dwd ralphm, Ah, no, I recall slightly wrong - the tie was between David Banes and Michael Rémond, but Nÿco was the "fourth" member, and we voted to drop the Board to the top 3, not 4, in order to maintain an odd number - which lost Nÿco. https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2009-October/005230.html
  284. lskdjf has joined
  285. jere has left
  286. jere has joined
  287. dwd has left
  288. Alex has left
  289. dwd has joined
  290. jere has left
  291. jere has joined
  292. dwd has left
  293. dwd has joined
  294. ralphm has left
  295. Zash has left
  296. Martin has left
  297. blabla has left
  298. blabla has joined
  299. Ge0rG has joined
  300. bjc has left
  301. jjrh has left
  302. Zash has joined
  303. nyco has left
  304. Ge0rG dwd: you forgot to explicitly specify the ordering of the lottery results.
  305. dwd Ge0rG, Isn't this enough? "2) Each number will be arranged in ascending order, separated by dots, and terminated by "./". "
  306. Ge0rG dwd: oops, my bad, sorry!
  307. tux has left
  308. dwd Ge0rG, Don't worry. I'd rather people pointed things out and were wrong than an error wasn't spotted until too late.
  309. Ge0rG dwd: still, reading the mail on my smartphone in a moving tram and immediately accusing you of negligence was impolite at best.
  310. nyco has left
  311. Ge0rG So my appointment ended early, which means I have the time for the council meeting. Now I just need to hope for good network coverage...
  312. jjrh has left
  313. lskdjf has joined
  314. jjrh has left
  315. daniel has left
  316. dwd Ge0rG, We're aiming for 16:30 UTC, so 17:30 CET I believe. So you've more than an hour to find a café with WiFi.
  317. jjrh has left
  318. dwd Ge0rG, Also, you weren't impolite, and nor did you accuse me of negligence. You reviewed something important and thought you'd spotted something, which is very welcome.
  319. Ge0rG dwd: I'm boarding a train in 10 minutes, and it will have bad wifi. I can't influence the network quality except by pulling the emergency brake, but that will considerably delay my arrival at home 🤔
  320. dwd Ge0rG, We'll have to hope we did a good job with all those mobile extensions, then. :-)
  321. Ge0rG dwd: the largest blocker on the first trip today was poezio's broken reconnect code and that nasty MUC self ping IQ routing problem
  322. Valerian has joined
  323. dwd Ge0rG, It'd be nice to get MIX moving again.
  324. daniel has left
  325. zinid it would be nice to burn it with fire ;)
  326. dwd has joined
  327. Alex has joined
  328. Ge0rG Indeed, I've recently made another approach at the XEP, and I've read almost half of it. Unfortunately, I wrote my notes as messages-to-self and they weren't logged because of infrastructure problems. They are now captured in the yaxim SQLite storage of a phone with empty battery.
  329. Steve Kille dwd: in what way??
  330. Kev2 has joined
  331. Guus Steve Kille: make it a draft standard? :)
  332. Kev2 has left
  333. uc has joined
  334. Kev I think it's a little bit raw for that.
  335. Guus I was referring to the intended direction.
  336. Steve Kille We want this direction
  337. Steve Kille Need some implementations
  338. Guus sorry, my semi-funny remark wasn't helpful.
  339. bjc has joined
  340. daniel has left
  341. ralphm As for the Board meeting. I look like this right now, and using any screen terribly hard:
  342. ralphm https://upload.ik.nu/upload/eb78d522-cde8-401f-acfe-045ede3645de/1YWY6o4HQRCx44MBO8aXHw.jpg
  343. mathieui ralphm, what happened? are you ok?
  344. ralphm Damaged my cornea somehow. Should be fine in a few days
  345. Guus ouch. Get well soon, Ralph
  346. Zash ralphm: get well! and don't overwork your other eye
  347. matlag has left
  348. ralphm bangs gavel
  349. ralphm Arrr
  350. ralphm Welcome Guus especially
  351. ralphm Who do we have
  352. Guus wait, you're an hour early?
  353. Ge0rG Council hasn't met yet
  354. ralphm Ah yes
  355. ralphm Adjourned then
  356. ralphm I missed the change of time
  357. Guus (Also, in an hour this building is closing down, so at best, I'll join the meeting via mobile from a parking lot somehwere)
  358. ralphm bangs gavel
  359. Kev May I suggest to Board that having a meeting before Board are selected is probably suboptimal, given the first order needs to be electing a Chair?
  360. uc , .,
  361. uc Oops Sorry
  362. Valerian has left
  363. ralphm Well, hah, so first of all, there are 4 definitely elected board members and they can meet as usual. Second, I thought it would be important to affirm Dave's suggestion to resolve the tie.
  364. ralphm There is no strict rule for the first meeting to elect its chair.
  365. daniel has left
  366. jcbrand has left
  367. Kev There isn't, but it seems odd not to.
  368. ralphm Bylaws say one year or until elected. I agree all is weird. But the method to resolve the tie has to be affirmed in some official capacity, no?
  369. Kev No.
  370. Kev At least, I don't believe so. I think we fixed this in the bylaws last time it happened.
  371. Guus Kev: agreed. I think it's primarily up to Alex, rather than board.
  372. Ge0rG > in the case of a tie for the final remaining position, the final individual shall be chosen in accordance with the procedures defined in “RFC 3797: Publicly Verifiable Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection” published by the Internet Engineering Task Force. There is nothing about who is responsible for that process.
  373. dwd Kev, Yeah, the RFC 3797 mechanism is in the bylaws. The precise choices are not. The only affirmation I'd really like to see (beyond a few members giving it the nod) is for Alex (as Secretary), and Arc and Nÿco (as those affected).
  374. ralphm Ge0rG: in all matters unspecified, I believe the board or the executive committee can do this
  375. moparisthebest but is there a board until the tie is resolved? what if all the board election is a tie?
  376. ralphm And I agree with dwd otherwise
  377. ralphm There is currently a 4 person Board
  378. Zash This does seem like a thing done by those administrating The Meeting
  379. dwd moparisthebest, The former is unspecified. I think technically, we should pick the RFC 3797 process prior to the election. If the entire Board is a tie one year, the selection still operates by RFC 3797.
  380. moparisthebest yea but not if the rule is 'the board has to agree to the algorithm'
  381. dwd ralphm, I'm not entirely sure if there *is* a Board. There *is* a Chair, though.
  382. dwd moparisthebest, Good point, well made.
  383. Zash Clarification of the bylaws in order? :)
  384. blabla has left
  385. dwd Zash, Maybe. We could also declare that in the event of multiple interpretations of the rules, the Secretary's word is final.
  386. Ge0rG Who has the authority to determine whether a certain process is RFC3797 compliant?
  387. Zash dwd: Sure. And then put that into the bylaws.
  388. moparisthebest I think assuming lottery is random and not-riggable is fine, if you could rig it, why would you use that power to influence XSF board/council members?
  389. Ge0rG I think that adding the Secretary as the authority sounds reasonable, but what happens if somebody vetoes the RFC3797 compliance?
  390. ralphm dwd: I read 3.13 that all but the tied candidates for the last remaining position are simply elected
  391. dwd moparisthebest, Says exactly that in the RFC, actually. :-)
  392. Ge0rG moparisthebest: "<Ge0rG> dwd: let's just add a foot note that in case an XSF member wins a significant amount of money, we need to declare the result as void and choose another state-run lottery."
  393. dwd ralphm, I can go along with that, actually. Particularly as it talks about "Election of individuals", suggesting they're elected individually rather than as a Board entire.
  394. moparisthebest I'm not sure how much money would buy my board/council vote, but certainly a small % of a lottery win would do it :P
  395. ralphm And indeed, I'm still chair. I'm not sure if stpeter is still executive officer, though, given the one year term and his non-appointment last year.
  396. Valerian has joined
  397. ralphm (6.2)
  398. Zash Does the new board start directly after the election?
  399. Kev Zash: Yeah.
  400. lumi has joined
  401. zinid has joined
  402. blabla has joined
  403. ralphm Actually, I am wrong. He was appointed, and indicated intent to resign
  404. blabla has left
  405. marc has left
  406. Martin has joined
  407. vanitasvitae has left
  408. tux has left
  409. Valerian has left
  410. daniel has left
  411. jere has left
  412. jere has joined
  413. daniel has left
  414. waqas has joined
  415. ralphm Ok, what now then?
  416. Martin *shrug*
  417. ralphm I suggested just just hold a quick meeting affirming dwd's method
  418. Martin Works for me
  419. ralphm And then arrange a new meeting after Friday's lottery
  420. Ge0rG IMHO, what dwd said is reasonable.
  421. Holger has left
  422. Kev I think nyco and arc agreeing to it would be optimal.
  423. ralphm Rights
  424. ralphm -s
  425. Kev And also that in future elections, we should probably state this method in advance :)
  426. daniel has left
  427. ralphm Alex are you here, too?
  428. daniel has left
  429. Ge0rG Kev: it might be hard to find an appropriate wording for the bylaws that doesn't open up to potential abuse.
  430. daniel has joined
  431. ralphm Good luck cheating the lottery. If you manage that, by all means be a Board member
  432. Kev Ge0rG: I don't think it needs going in the bylaws - the bylaws say what to do.
  433. intosi ^ what ralphm said.
  434. Ge0rG Kev: but not how to do it
  435. intosi Stating it in th emeeting announcement should suffice.
  436. Kev As far as I'm concerned, Alex simply stating that this is the mechanism is sufficient.
  437. ralphm I agree with Kev
  438. ralphm Anyway
  439. Ge0rG Kev: unless somebody points out that it violates RFC 3797.
  440. ralphm bangs gavel
  441. ralphm 0. Welcome and agenda
  442. ralphm Who's here?
  443. Guus I am
  444. Guus kind of
  445. Martin I'm here
  446. Guus in process of getting kicked out of building.
  447. Martin 2.5 isn't really quorate
  448. ralphm No MattJ?
  449. Guus I'll respond eventually :)
  450. intosi has left
  451. intosi has joined
  452. MattJ Here
  453. MattJ Sorry
  454. ralphm Arc, nyco ?
  455. ralphm Ok all elected in attendance
  456. ralphm I have one agenda item: resolving the tie
  457. Guus That's up to Alex, isn't it?
  458. Guus has left
  459. ralphm 1. Resolving the tie for 5th director
  460. ralphm So, there has been a suggestion by dwd to resolve this according to the bylaws
  461. ralphm Additionally, there's some unclarity how the foundation selects this as accepted
  462. ralphm I motion that the Board affirms dwd's method, having seen no objections
  463. Martin +1
  464. ralphm Of course comments of Members are welcome
  465. Guus Although I'm perfectly fine with the suggested method, it's purpose is to safeguard Alex from accusations of bias. Its for him to agree on, I believe.
  466. Ge0rG I consider dwd's proposal very reasonable, especially the part about approval by the two affected nominees.
  467. daniel has left
  468. ralphm I'd be happy to make it conditional on that
  469. intosi Sounds good to me with that condition.
  470. Kev I think that we actually more or less *have* to leave this to Alex to agree to.
  471. daniel has joined
  472. ralphm Kev: can you explain why?
  473. Kev Because either the bylaws are ok for him to do so, in which case yay, or the bylaws need changing before we can have a new Board, and that means voting and blah.
  474. ralphm To be clear, we *have* a new Board IMO
  475. Ge0rG IMO it is compliant to RFC3739, but in case of incompliance there should be a reasonable vetoing approach. I think that having a single person who defines that it is compliant is insufficient.
  476. ralphm Ge0rG: this is why I thought it useful to affirm by the Board. I like the suggestion of having the candidates needing to agree, and of course Alex will need to execute (and agree).
  477. ralphm I was hoping all involved to be here
  478. Guus Well, everyone appears to agree with Dave's method
  479. Ge0rG ralphm: right. What Kev said almost read to me like only Alex needs to affirm the method.
  480. Guus So perhaps Alex can just execute, assuming he agrees to the method too, and we don't have to worry about bother potential scenarios.
  481. ralphm Agreed
  482. intosi Kev might be right that his affirmation is all that is required. However, that does not mean that board and member affirming that's the way to go isn't a good thing.
  483. intosi Especially if it's affirmed by all parties directly involved.
  484. arc I'm fine with this
  485. Ge0rG intosi: I think this boils down to who is allowed to veto
  486. ralphm nyco?
  487. Guus I don't think we can sensibly do more now, with all other parties absent.
  488. dwd Ge0rG, Push comes to shove, the members can remove the whole of the Board and redo the election.
  489. intosi ^ I tried to say what dwd said, but didn't manage to find words even closely as eloquent.
  490. ralphm I think Board can also appoint the vacancy, so that's why I think it is sufficient for the Board to agree.
  491. jubalh has left
  492. Guus ralphm: that'd be weird. We could fill the vacancy to force a vote in a particular direction that way.
  493. dwd ralphm, No, not also. We need to complete this first. I'm not even sure if, technically, either of Arc or Nyco can withdraw.
  494. ralphm (4.7)
  495. ralphm I'm happy to debate this all day, but I think we have enough to go on
  496. Guus Let's put this on hold until Alex responds.
  497. Alex I agree on Daves suggestion and I am happy to execute on it
  498. arc Honestly I think way more thought is being put into this than is needed. Let's see what the Friday lottery results in and move forward
  499. Guus Good.
  500. daniel has left
  501. Alex Dave said the next draw in Friday, so we should have the 5th borad member by the end of this week using the random election method
  502. ralphm Ok. If nyco does not object before the lottery executes, this is what we do.
  503. daniel has joined
  504. vanitasvitae has left
  505. ralphm dwd: can you write minutes?
  506. ralphm 2. Date of Next
  507. ralphm tbd on list
  508. daniel has left
  509. daniel has joined
  510. Guus What list?
  511. dwd ralphm, Yes, I'll knock something brief out.
  512. ralphm 3. Close
  513. ralphm Guus: board list
  514. Guus I'm not on board list yet, I believe.
  515. dwd Guus, board@, one assumes.
  516. ralphm Kev can add you
  517. ralphm Thanks all!
  518. Guus Thanks
  519. ralphm bangs gavel
  520. ralphm Arrrr
  521. Martin Cheerio all
  522. intosi Roaring Ralph.
  523. daniel has left
  524. daniel has joined
  525. Martin has left
  526. lumi has left
  527. ralphm (for those who missed it, scroll up for my picture)
  528. Kev Get well, Ralph.
  529. Guus Kev: mind adding me to board list?
  530. dwd ralphm, You know an eyepatch is meant to be black, right?
  531. ralphm Best they had
  532. Guus dwd: I'm missing a parrot.
  533. ralphm Also pretty sure most pirates had a white one first
  534. Guus Ok, I'm off. Car / parking lot / cold.
  535. Kev Mail me so I've got the mail address in my inbox.
  536. daniel has left
  537. intosi has left
  538. daniel has joined
  539. Guus Kev: my Gmail please
  540. Guus See my application
  541. ralphm Oh, also congrats on council and dwd as chair
  542. ralphm (of council)
  543. dwd ralphm, Ta!
  544. jubalh has joined
  545. Steve Kille has left
  546. Steve Kille has left
  547. Steve Kille has joined
  548. Guus has left
  549. Guus has joined
  550. jjrh has left
  551. Steve Kille has left
  552. jjrh has left
  553. Neustradamus has left
  554. jjrh has left
  555. jjrh has left
  556. jjrh has left
  557. Steve Kille has left
  558. jubalh has left
  559. ralphm has left
  560. lskdjf has joined
  561. Kev has left
  562. Kev has joined
  563. Valerian has joined
  564. Valerian has left
  565. Valerian has joined
  566. Ge0rG has joined
  567. Zash has left
  568. Neustradamus has joined
  569. Zash has left
  570. jubalh has joined
  571. Zash has joined
  572. Kev has left
  573. Kev has left
  574. lumi has joined
  575. Kev has left
  576. Kev has left
  577. Kev has left
  578. Kev has left
  579. daniel has left
  580. Kev has left
  581. Kev has left
  582. Kev has left
  583. matlag has left
  584. Kev has left
  585. matlag has joined
  586. Kev has left
  587. Kev has left
  588. Kev has left
  589. Kev has left
  590. Kev has left
  591. daniel has left
  592. Kev has left
  593. Kev has left
  594. Kev has left
  595. Kev has left
  596. Steve Kille has left
  597. daniel has left
  598. Steve Kille has left
  599. Kev has left
  600. Kev has left
  601. Kev has left
  602. daniel has left
  603. lskdjf has left
  604. daniel has joined
  605. lskdjf has left
  606. daniel has left
  607. daniel has joined
  608. lskdjf has joined
  609. lskdjf has joined
  610. Kev has left
  611. Kev has left
  612. Steve Kille has left
  613. Kev has left
  614. Steve Kille has left
  615. Kev has left
  616. Steve Kille has left
  617. lskdjf has joined
  618. Kev has left
  619. lskdjf has left
  620. burrblurr has joined
  621. Kev has left
  622. lskdjf has left
  623. Kev has left
  624. valo has left
  625. Kev has left
  626. valo has joined
  627. Kev has left
  628. burrblurr has left
  629. Kev has left
  630. Kev has left
  631. daniel has left
  632. lskdjf has joined
  633. daniel has joined
  634. Kev has left
  635. Kev has left
  636. Kev has left
  637. Kev has left
  638. Kev has left
  639. ralphm has left
  640. Kev has left
  641. Kev has left
  642. lskdjf has joined
  643. lskdjf has joined
  644. Kev has left
  645. Ge0rG has left
  646. Guus has left
  647. Kev has left
  648. Guus has joined
  649. Tobias has joined
  650. lskdjf has joined
  651. lskdjf has joined
  652. lskdjf has left
  653. lskdjf has left
  654. Kev has left
  655. stefandxm has left
  656. lskdjf has left
  657. Kev has left
  658. lskdjf has left
  659. lskdjf has joined
  660. lskdjf has left
  661. lskdjf has left
  662. lskdjf has left
  663. lskdjf has left
  664. lskdjf has left
  665. lskdjf has left
  666. stefandxm has joined
  667. lskdjf has left
  668. Valerian has left
  669. Valerian has joined
  670. daniel has left
  671. daniel has joined
  672. daniel has left
  673. daniel has joined
  674. lskdjf has left
  675. lskdjf has left
  676. lskdjf has left
  677. lskdjf has left
  678. lskdjf has left
  679. foxtune has joined
  680. lskdjf has joined
  681. lskdjf has left
  682. intosi has joined
  683. daniel has left
  684. daniel has joined
  685. intosi has left
  686. intosi has joined
  687. lskdjf has joined
  688. lskdjf has left
  689. lskdjf has left
  690. lskdjf has left
  691. uc has joined
  692. Valerian has left
  693. lskdjf has left
  694. intosi has left
  695. intosi has joined
  696. lskdjf has joined
  697. lskdjf has left
  698. valo has left
  699. valo has joined
  700. zinid has left
  701. Syndace has left
  702. Syndace has joined
  703. lskdjf has joined
  704. marc has left
  705. stefandxm has left
  706. lovetox has left
  707. mimi89999 has joined
  708. mimi89999 has joined
  709. intosi has left
  710. intosi has joined
  711. intosi has left
  712. intosi has joined
  713. intosi has left
  714. intosi has joined
  715. daniel has left
  716. daniel has joined
  717. intosi has left
  718. intosi has joined
  719. lskdjf has left
  720. Neustradamus has left
  721. lskdjf has left
  722. lskdjf has left
  723. Guus has left
  724. Guus has joined
  725. lskdjf has left
  726. lskdjf has joined
  727. lskdjf has joined
  728. lskdjf has left
  729. daniel has left
  730. daniel has joined
  731. lskdjf has joined
  732. Ge0rG I think a single talk slot won't suffice any more at the upcoming Summit. Too many problems in https://op-co.de/tmp/whats-wrong-with-xmpp-2017.pdf
  733. mimi89999 has left
  734. mathieui oh, you updated it
  735. mathieui maybe we need to have the summit last one more day and give one full day to Ge0rG
  736. Ge0rG mathieui: my immediate reaction was to veto that proposal, but then I realized it is for the Board to decide, not for the Council.
  737. SamWhited I think (keeping in mind that I've only been to a handful of summits) that summits work best if you pick a specific issue and focus on that
  738. Ge0rG SamWhited: I could pick out Message Routing and fill a 30~60min slot with that probably.
  739. SamWhited That does seem like a big one
  740. Ge0rG SamWhited: it's also the most important one, IMO
  741. Ge0rG SamWhited: after that is tackled, a new client session type or some kind of MAM-sub can be applied to solve the remaining minor practical problems ;)
  742. Ge0rG I also actually wanted to create that message routing rules table for a long time now.
  743. Guus has left
  744. Alex has left
  745. Alex has joined
  746. daniel has left
  747. daniel has joined
  748. bjc has left
  749. daniel has left
  750. daniel has joined
  751. Kev has left
  752. Kev has joined
  753. jjrh has left
  754. jjrh has left
  755. lskdjf has left
  756. SamWhited has left
  757. daniel has left
  758. daniel has joined
  759. jjrh has left
  760. jubalh has joined
  761. jjrh has left
  762. lskdjf has left
  763. lskdjf has left
  764. Kev has left
  765. daniel has left
  766. Kev has left
  767. daniel has joined
  768. Kev has left
  769. Kev has left
  770. Kev has left
  771. Kev has left
  772. Kev has left
  773. Kev has left
  774. Kev has left
  775. Kev has left
  776. Kev has left
  777. Kev has left
  778. Kev has left
  779. Kev has left
  780. daniel has left
  781. daniel has joined
  782. lskdjf has left
  783. lskdjf has left
  784. lskdjf has left
  785. lskdjf has left
  786. stefandxm has joined
  787. lskdjf has joined
  788. daniel has left
  789. daniel has joined
  790. Zash has left
  791. lskdjf has joined
  792. goffi has left
  793. daniel has left
  794. daniel has joined
  795. lskdjf has joined
  796. lskdjf has left
  797. lskdjf has left
  798. lskdjf has left
  799. lskdjf has left
  800. lskdjf has left
  801. lskdjf has left
  802. lskdjf has left
  803. ralphm has joined
  804. jubalh has left
  805. lskdjf has left
  806. Neustradamus has joined
  807. Ge0rG has joined
  808. daniel has left
  809. daniel has joined
  810. marc has left
  811. lskdjf has joined
  812. lskdjf has left
  813. la|r|ma has left
  814. lskdjf has joined
  815. lskdjf has joined
  816. lskdjf has joined
  817. jubalh has joined
  818. Zash has left
  819. intosi has left
  820. marc has left
  821. Guus has joined
  822. jere has left
  823. jere has joined
  824. nyco has left
  825. jubalh has left
  826. la|r|ma has joined
  827. la|r|ma has joined
  828. marc has left
  829. Zash has left
  830. lskdjf has left
  831. jubalh has joined
  832. lskdjf has left
  833. pep. has left
  834. andrey.g has left
  835. jubalh has left
  836. jubalh has joined
  837. jjrh has left
  838. Alex has left
  839. andrey.g has joined