jonaswZash, works for me:
>>> etree.fromstring("""<foo a=' '/>""").get("a")
'\n'
ZashDidn't we go over whitespace rules recently?
jonaswI don’t recall
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Zashhttps://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#AVNormalize
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jonasw circumvents that I think
Zash> =xml.parse[[<x y=' '/>]]
<x y='
'/>
ZashIndeed
jonasw> Note that if the unnormalized attribute value contains a character reference to a white space character other than space (#x20), the normalized value contains the referenced character itself (#xD, #xA or #x9). This contrasts with the case where the unnormalized value contains a white space character (not a reference), which is replaced with a space character (#x20) in the normalized value and also contrasts with the case where the unnormalized value contains an entity reference whose replacement text contains a white space character; being recursively processed, the white space character is replaced with a space character (#x20) in the normalized value.
Ge0rGZash: but in values you can have them.
jonaswreplacing the character reference wins over normalizsation to space
ZashThings broke when we escaped non-space whitespace.
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jonaswwhich things?
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ZashThings!
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ZashBroke interop with M-Link IIRC
jonasweven if only applied to attributes?
ZashI don't recall the details
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jonaswaioxmpp escapes newlines etc. in attributes and haven’t had issues with that yet
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Flowjonasw, which xml API does aioxmpp use (if any)?
jonaswFlow, for generation, we actually write XML ourselves. for parsing, it’s xml.sax, which is backed by expat in CPython.
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jonasw(the custom writer implements a SAX interface, but with some goodies which were hard to achieve with xml.sax, see <https://docs.zombofant.net/aioxmpp/devel/api/internal/xml.html#aioxmpp.xml.XMPPXMLGenerator>)
jonaswmostly about encoding, namespaces (and prefixes) and strictness.
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Flowjonasw, so does aioxmpp do the escaping or does it happen under the hood of the XML API?
jonaswlet me check, IIRC we invoke some xml.foo method
jonaswyeah, xml.sax.saxutils.quoteattr -> libexpat on CPython
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Flowfetches the lastest aioxmpp git
Flowwauza, 75% of aioxmpp's SLOCs are tests. repspect jonasw
jonaswthank you :)
mathieuiyeah
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jonaswedhelas, around?
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jonaswGuus, is there a way you could give powers to (only) cancel (only) the xeps docker builds?
jonasw(you, or any iteam member really)
Guusjonasw: unlikely
jonaswpity
jonaswtoo late now anyways
Guusthe access control is not very fine-grained
Guusread/write/admin on a repo level, that's all I can find.
jonaswokay, nevermind then. I’ll just try to make sure that I only need one push then :)
Guusjonasw: perhaps you can shorten the build duration somehow?
Guusthat'd reduce the impact
jonaswthe PDF build takes ages, I don’t think we can do anything about that
jonaswif we had incremental builds, that’d be amazing too, but I think that’s not possible with dockerhub
jonaswor maybe even docker in general
Guusisn't the entire concept of docker hub that you base images on eachother?
jonaswI don’t think that we can reasonably base on the previous build, can we?
GuusI don't know
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KevNot reasonably, no.
KevAnd the idea is that you build up layers, yes, but not generally diffs between multiple versions of the same image.
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jonaswhm, would write access allow me to break things which I can’t break anyways by pushing to the xeps repository?
Guusas you're an editor, I'm unsure if you shouldn't be allowed to do more damage anyways
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Guusthere's actually an 'editors' team there
GuusKev, any good reason why editors shouldn't be part of that editor team on docker hub?
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Guusit now has Kev and Sam
KevDon't think so.
Guusjonasw - can you share your dockerhub accountname?
jonaswxsfjonas
jonaswsweet
Guushocus, pokus, pilatus, pas...
jonaswthanks :)
Guusno problem
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edhelasjonasw pong
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jonaswedhelas, I used "jt" as initials for your change, I hope that’s okay.
edhelasah yeah, that was that :D
edhelasis there a place where this jt alias is defined ?
jonaswno
jonaswunfortunately not
jonaswI feel we should maybe move from "initials" to "handles"
jonaswinitials have low entropy, are prone to collisions, and aren’t used anywhere else in the community, making them hard to resolve
edhelasI thought that people that participate will appears in Acknowledgements
jonaswnot unless you add yourself, I don’t think that’s the editors task. maybe.
jonasw(if it is, my apologies)
edhelaseheh, we should clarify that :p
jonaswI think the Ack seciton is pretty much at the authors discretion
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edhelasokay
edhelasmaybe point all those initials to https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/members.html with an anchor ?
edhelasah, this list can be cleaned up as well, which can break links… mhhh
jonaswalso, you don’t need to be a member to contribute to a XEP
edhelastrue
Ge0rGedhelas: the members list is much more dynamic than the XEP history
jonaswI’m looking forward to the fun of a name change.
edhelaseheh
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edhelaswhatever, having pubsub#max_items will now allow us to move forward regarding the PEP support on the servers
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jonasw:)
jonaswsorry for the delay, I forgot this existed and council voted on it :(
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jonaswI note that the log timestamps on http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2017-11-29#15:55:08 are off by a few minutes
jonaswI think five
jonaswcc @ iteam
jonaswintosi, MattJ maybe?
MattJWe'll need to figure out if there is a docker image for ntp, or make one
MattJ(only joking)
MattJ(I think)
jonaswplease be.
Ge0rGjonasw: re 0392, "Treat the output as little endian and extract the last-significant 16 bits." - "least-significant" and I'm currently questioning whether it's a signed or an unsigned 16 bit number.
intosiMattJ: right
intosiOr we might've forgotten we actually care about time, and didn't bother installing ntpd ;)
intosiFixed
dwdintosi, I'm glad you found the time.
intosidwd: fixed with minutes to spare.
jonaswGe0rG, unsigned
Ge0rGjonasw: or maybe it doesn't matter at all?
Ge0rGunsigned shorts are a real pita in Java :>
jonaswGe0rG, it matters, I think
Ge0rGjonasw: "Divide the value by 65536" - shouldn't that be 65535?
jonaswno
jonaswwe don’t want to reach 1.0
jonaswbecause that’s equal to 0.0
jonasw(in the circle)
moparisthebestopenntpd seems to be a better choice for just keeping time correct, imho
Ge0rGjonasw: great!
jonasw(I got that wrong at first, Marcus pointed it out on standards@)
jonasw*Marcel
jonaswdamn, I got that wrong in the acks
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jonaswGe0rG, is yaxim about to get XEP-0392 support? :)
jonaswif so, make it so that conversations can steal it :)
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MattJConversations stealing code from Yaxim, that'll be the day
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Zash-xep 392
BunnehZash: Consistent Color Generation (Standards Track, Experimental, 2017-11-29)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0392.html
Ge0rGjonasw: I'm working on 0392, yes.
edhelaswow this XEP
mathieuiedhelas, you haven’t implemented it yet?? even poezio has it
jonasw*cough*
MattJI think it's a well-produced XEP, but really seems like a lot of fuss over something so trivial
edhelasmathieui wan't to compare sizes of our implemented XEP list ?
jonaswMattJ, I’m sorry :-)
mathieuiedhelas, no thanks :D
MattJI really don't care that much what colours people show up as
MattJSeems many people do...
edhelasmathieui SIMS implemented ? :-°
Ge0rGMattJ: the important thing is not that all clients show the same color but rather that the palette has good readability
jonaswthe palette stuff blew it ub much
jonaswthe palette stuff blew it up much
jonasw(with "palette stuff" I mean mapping to discrete color palettes, like terminal clients do)
ZashSeems weird to me to specify as a protocol tho.
jonaswI wonder if it would’ve been more suited for Informational track, but i don’t care :)
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jonasw(given that we’d want to have this under rather strict change control once it becomes widespread, Standards Track is probably sane)
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edhelasmeanwhile in Movim https://github.com/movim/movim/blob/master/app/helpers/StringHelper.php#L312 :D
edhelasthe thing is that I'm following the default colors of Material design
edhelasso I'm wondering how this will fit with this XEP
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jonaswedhelas, the XEP allows you to use a palette
jonaswthere’s a large section on that
Ge0rGthe Android avatar palette has eight predefined colors or something
jonaswbut I would suggest to not do that and instead use the colors generated by the XEP.
danieljonasw, using a palette won't distribute the colors equaly on that palette though, or will it?
SamWhitedI think this XEP was very well thought out and written, but I can't see it being widely used. It's just too much complexity, and too large to implement easily when instead I could just do what edhelas has
jonaswdaniel, it will do that only if the palette is itself equally distributed
danielyes... i'm afraid it won't work for me then. i mean i'll happily give it a try if Ge0rG writes the code
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danielbut i really want to keep my color palette
jonaswSamWhited, the gist of it is pretty much angle = sha1(text)[:2] / 65536 * 2π; cr = sin(angle); cb = cos(angle); and three formulas to convert cr and cb to rgb. maybe it’d help if there was a single block at the beginning which lists that and save the details for later below?
jonaswdaniel, why though?
danieljonasw, why i want to keep my palette?
jonaswyes
danielbecause i want them to fit into the platform
intosidaniel: +1 :)
edhelasdaniel maybe we can have the same palette, we are both using Material Design colors :)
jonaswdaniel, I *assume* that most such palettes are rather equally distributed
jonaswif you have the rgb values for them, I’d be happy to check that
edhelaswill introduce XEP-XXXX Material Design color palette
SamWhitedjonasw: that might help, but it will still be a very long complicated XEP, and if I can implement it from just that section why is the rest needed?
jonaswSamWhited, special cases (like if you’re restricted to a palette), precision of the description to avoid ambiguities, and color vision deficiency correction
jonaswdaniel, thanks
jonaswdaniel, is that ARGB or ABGR?
danielargb
jonaswI could’ve guessed.
dwdArgh, maybe.
GuusNyco, Ralphm, MattJ, Martin - does board meet now?
MattJI was guessing not, because you said you couldn't make it
MartinI'm here, but wasn't sure if the mailing list thread flattened it
GuusWednesdays are very inconvenient. Parking lots, laptops in cars, no heating, and roaming is typically invovled
Guusas we didn't agree on a new time, I thought I'd check in now.
Guusfwiw, 2:30pm-3:00pm GMT every Thursday works for me - as suggested on the mailing list - but there's no point in agreeing between the three of us, without Ralphm and Nyco.
MattJIndeed
ralphmI am good with that
MattJnyco, around?
Guuswell, we have quorum now - shall we start a meeting now? We can finalize the scheduling once nyco pitches in.
MattJwfm
Guusralph, do you want to take the lead? You make for a comfortable chair :)
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Guusralphm ^ ?
Guusbangs a gavel
ralphmWell, I thought it would be very weird to have a meeting without an agreed time
Guusunbangs a gavel
ralphmFirst order of business is that we choose a chair and I think we should all be there
GuusI'm perfectly happy to continue with an acting chair for this meeting.
GuusI do agree that choosing a chair should involve all of us
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ralphmNo need for an acting chair, I am still a proper one
ralphmSo, hoping that nyco will also agree upon the time, let's go for tomorrow 14:30 UTC
Guusshrugs.
MartinSounds good to me
Guusworks for me
GuusI think all of us are on the same DST switchover date, correct? if so, it'd make sense to anchor it to London time - to prevent a sudden shift twice a year?
Guusas UTC is London time now, there's no immediate difference.
MattJYes, sensible
ralphmI'd be very happy to anchor to London
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peterhey, today is my jabiversary: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/jdev/1999-November/060711.html :-)
Ge0rGpeter: congratulations! :)
peterheh
jonaswpeter, nice, in two years we can celebrate your 20th :-)
peterthis is why they call me "Old Man Jabber" ;-)
SamWhitedOh nice! Congrats indeed!
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SouLWow, suuuper nice, happy jabiversary :D
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dwdIn case anyone still thought the XSF was the weirdest standards org, the IETF has pressed its claim by publishing 18 versions of the DTLS spec within half an hour.
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fippodwd: how does that compare to BUNDLE with its 42 revisions?
fippogranted, over the last five or six years
intosipeter: congrats, you're now allowed to vote ;)
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moparisthebestwhat, why (@18 DTLS versions)
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zinidWho cares what IETF is doing, everyone is doing what Google does, what's good for Google bussiness
zinid</rant>
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jjrhGoogle employees participate in IETF standards. :P
fippogoogle employees seem to ignore MUSTs in RFCs written by other google employees. Seems to be a big company.
fippozash: ietf-discuss is like hackernews for... old ppl?
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jjrhI miss the days when slashdot actually had good news and comments that were insightful
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peterIf Brian Carpenter were paying attention to the TLS WG list, he would have known. (Although I still don't understand why ekr felt the need to do that.)
XSF Discussion - 2017-11-29