danielKev: do you have a response to my last email in the mam group chat thread?
KevI'll try to get to that this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon. My current policy is to spend the mornings coding and afternoons dealing with everything else.
daniel👍
SouLThat's a good approach to life :)
KevI've got a bunch of other changes that need making for 313, so I'm tempted to write up a sentence that I think will make everyone happy, and include that in the patch and see what you think.
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edhelasjonasw here ?
jonaswedhelas, yes
edhelasgreat :)
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edhelasnow that 0060 has been updated I'll see if I can update the XEPs that require multi-items
edhelasI was thinking about 0277 and 0330 first
edhelasalso I'd like to move Bookmarks to that
jonaswedhelas, bookmarks is a hot topic, at least wait for next weeks council discussion
edhelasyup, I'll update the others because it's just about clarification
jonaswfor the others, go ahead, those are experimental and deferred
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edhelasif you have other XEPs in mind please tell me
jonaswI don’t, I’m not really in the pubsub space
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edhelasyou should come, it's fun over there
jonaswnah, I’m busy in MAM space currently :)
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edhelasI start to have users that are putting a lot of private information in their XMPP account
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edhelasI find the standard authentication (password) quite weak and I'd like to know if we could discuss about that
edhelasbasically maybe work on 2FA and password recovery
jonaswedhelas, regarding 2FA, SASL2 might be for you
ralphmAs said before the meeting, through the grapevine, I've learned that's unlikely that nyco will attend today.
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ralphmMy suggested agenda is relatively simple: pick a Chair.
ralphmThe Board should also later appoint other Officers.
GuusI'd like to quickly run over the outstanding Trello cards, see what's still relevant.
dwdCan you pick a chair in the absence of a full Board?
ralphmdwd: this is indeed a good question. I've tried getting into contact with nyco in various ways. So has Guus.
Guusdwd: I'd be uncomfortable doing so.
ralphmI'm not happy about that either
GuusI would not object to postpone picking a chair until we all are present, and move on with other business, having Ralph continue to be chair for the time being.
ralphmI think that's acceptable with regard to the bylaws, but opinions welcome.
MattJI'm fine to continue
ralphmok, so then I only offer the point of Appointment of Officers for the agenda
MattJI don't see how the bylaws would forbid it (though neither how they require the full board to elect the chair)
ralphmalong with walking over the Trello board
ralphm1. Confirm minute taker
ralphmWho will do the honors?
ralphm(dwd?)
GuusI'll do them
Kev(Belatedly, I think delaying voting on a new Chair until all are present is ideal too)
ralphmGuus: appreciated, but it would also be nice if it was not a Board member, so that's why I ask
ralphmlast term dwd offered
KevI'm AFK in a few minutes, so I can't, sorry.
ralphmKev: thanks!
GuusRalphm: I'd be happy for someone else to do them. :)
ralphm:-)
ralphmLet's see if someone else pops up, but for now it is you
dwdI'm only somewhat here. Rather busy today.
ralphmok
ralphm2. Appointment of Officers
GuusWhat Officers?
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ralphmBesides the Chair, we also need to re-appoint Secretary, Treasurer and Executive Director.
ralphmIn the previous term, Peter has noted he wanted to step down as ED
MattJDidn't Peter indicate intent to resign the position(s)?
GuusI've not read up in the bylaws. Can you outline the procedure?
ralphmbut would still be Treasurer. Alex is our current secretary.
ralphmLet's ask them if they want to continue for another term
ralphmGuus: what!
ralphmARTICLE VI: Officers
Section 6.1 Number and Qualifications. The officers of the Corporation shall consist of the following: (a) a Chair, (b) an Executive Director, (c) a Secretary, and (d) a Treasurer. Officers must be natural persons that the Board of Directors elects or appoints. Officers need not be Directors of the Corporation and shall hold office at the discretion of the Board of Directors. Subject to these Bylaws, the Board of Directors may also elect or appoint one or more additional officers or assistant officers as it may deem convenient or necessary. Except as provided in these Bylaws, the Board of Directors shall fix the powers and duties of all officers.
ralphm(oh, Gajim, you are so funny with emoticons)
Guusthat doesn't state a term for those officers. Is there a requirement to re-appoint them?
Guus(apart from ED, who has expressed intention to step down)
ralphmGuus: please read the bylaws
GuusOk
ralphmThe term is 1 year for all officers
GuusIn any case, I'm happy with the suggestion to ask the existing officers to continue for another term.
ralphmOk.
MattJ"Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal."
ralphmYeah, I think that is a bit ambiguous.
GuusDoesn't hurt to ask them explicitly.
ralphmDoes it mean you'll hold the office beyond a year if no-one else comes up?
ralphmanyway
GuusShall I draft a quick email to both?
ralphm3. Sure
ralphmoops
ralphmsure!
ralphm3. Topics for decisions
ralphmI see the item of renaming Draft to Stable.
ralphmI think we said last time that there's no consensus. Can we remove this item?
ralphmMattJ?
MattJI think we can remove it for now, until a new proposal is made
MattJThe current one did not reach consensus
GuusAgreed.
ralphm4. Commitments
ralphmApart from that e-mail by Guus, I'd like to add one for searching for a replacement ED
ralphmWhile I'm Chair, I'll take that one
ralphmThere's also an item about a D&O quote. I think I need to figure that out with stpeter, too.
GuusWhat is that?
ralphmMy point
ralphmI think nobody remembers exactly
Guusalso: as Peter is no board member - why are we tracking this?
ralphmPeter is Executive Director
ralphmand Treasurer
MattJIt was a task assigned to Peter by the boar
MattJ*d
MattJiirc
Guusah.
ralphmin both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretart and the Chair of Council
ralphmin both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretary and the Chair of Council
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GuusNo-one remembers what 'D&O' is?
dwdGuus, Director and Officer insurance.
MattJInsurance
Guusah
Guusthanks
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ralphmLast comment I saw by Peter was 30-8:
ralphmThis fell off my radar screen. If it is still a priority I can look into
it again. It tends to be expensive, but I can report back on details.
GuusActually, I've looked into this for another Foundation - it doesn't need to be that expensive.
ralphmGuus: if you want, please check with Peter
Guusbut that might be in a Dutch setting only - unsure
GuusOk, I will
ralphm5. Items for discussion
ralphmLet's use this to quickly go over the backlog
ralphmLast Board failed to agree on a list of priorities. So let's try for real this time
ralphmI'm not sure about the IoT strategy doc, alternative meeting org
ralphmthe meetups sync seems to be for SCAM?
Guusas there's no progress on both for a long time, lets archive the IoT strategy doc and alternative meeting org.
ralphmAye
GuusI agree on the meetup sync bit - that aught to be scam
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ralphmfor the SPIM thing, that doesn't require anything from us right now. Anyone can write a XEP to propose this
GuusI think the idea of a SPIM-focussed work team is something to be discussed.
ralphmok
GuusAh. I read that as: create a group of people focussed on that, solely.
ralphmNot sure if that needs Board, but sure, let's put it there
GuusI'm not sure why people be more inclined to work on that after being grouped though.
MattJYeah, I think some concrete goals should be defined before forming the group
ralphmThat leaves us with the membership survey
MattJRather than just a vague "we need to fix the spam problem, let's form a group"
ralphmShall I keep that for discussion?
Guusdoesn't the survey tie in with the priorities?
ralphmmaybe
Guusas in: one's output should be the others input?
ralphmI'd also like everyone to think about the priorities next to that
Guusnyco appears to have done quite some legwork on that
ralphmI mean, we are part of the community, too, so there might be some things you already know you want to work on this term
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ralphmShall I move it to discussion then?
MattJ+1
Guussure
ralphmOk. I think we're out of time
ralphm6. Date of Next
Ge0rGI've asked for the creation of a SPAM taskforce, which would operate behind closed doors at first, but it was not deemed acceptable.
ralphmI suggest +1W
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ralphmuntil we hear from nyco otherwise
Martin+1W is fine with me
MattJ+1W++
ralphmGe0rG: that's not entirely true. There was simply no consensus
GuusShall I provisionally move the scheduled item in the calendar?
ralphm(yet)
Guus(works for me)
ralphmGuus: yes please
ralphm7. Close
ralphmThanks all!
Guusone AOB: there's an old wiki page for board with stale data. Can we remove that?
Ge0rGralphm: I think the consensus was that anybody can form any kind of closed group and that the XSF shouldn't approve of this specific one
ralphmGuus: A link would be good.
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Guushttps://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board
Ge0rGralphm: that was not meant as a criticism, I'm okay with the decision - just a reminder of why this was on the agenda
ralphmGuus: sure archive
GuusInstead, I propose to redirect that link to the public website (which is what we do for Council, too)
ralphmGe0rG: so we can remove it from our Trello then?
Ge0rGralphm: unless you want to form an official SPIM fighting group open to the public, I think you can remove it
ralphmI'll leave it on for next week, and then we make that decision
Ge0rGMattJ: I'm still missing you in that MUC, and I think you are still blocking messages from strangers.
GuusCan someone give me access to Trello, please?
Guusthe Board board, specifically.
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ralphmI will
Guustx
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MattJGe0rG, invite me? I'm not blocking messages from strangers (since a while back, as my receipt of many spam messages proves)
ralphmGuus: what's your handle?
Ge0rGMattJ: invited you, once again :)
MattJOk, weird, I didn't receive it :/
Ge0rGMattJ: last time we tried it, it was blocked by some module/config on your server/account.
Guusralphm: guusderkinderen
ralphmdone
GuusI've just rescheduled the XSF Board agenda item in the calendar - can someone kindly verify that I didn't mess up?
Guusralphm: thanks
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ralphmLooks good to me, Guus. Thanks
Guusgreat
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jonaswSamWhited, re colors, I’m thinking of putting the base algorithm in a single block, and only noting the differences for the individual modifications (like CVD correction, background correction etc.) in separate sections
jonaswin addition to cleaning up my reference implementation and putting it somewhere public
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SamWhitedhmm, my CVD corretion doesn't appear to be working, but without that it's passing the tests
SamWhitedI don't think that was due to anything confusing in the document though, just a bug of mine
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SamWhitedah yah, MSB not LSB
SamWhitedjonasw: I think the second test for blue-blindness correction may be wrong, can you confirm the values there when you get a moment?
jonaswsure
jonaswworking on those things at the moment anyways
SamWhitedhmm, my naive impression is that for blue-blindness that color wouldn't change actually (no blue component when I convert it to RGB), so maybe my implementation is broken. Not sure how it would affect that single value though
jonaswmaybe the others aren’t affected by blue correction
SamWhitedThe first one shouldn't be either, but it appears to be changing (and my implementation seems to work there)
SamWhitedWell, I say "shouldn't be", I'm not sure, I'm just guessing based on the blue component
SamWhitedI should do the floating point version of the math and check
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SamWhitedThat's weird, if I check the angle before applying the correction it is different from yours for everything *except* this one, but the final result is correct for everything except this one.
jonaswwhat
jonaswthat’s weird
jonaswI haven’t checked the non-floating-point way though
jonaswI just trusted what Marcel said on list
jonaswI’ll try to implement that in the C++ app I’m currently building right now
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jonaswafk for dinner now though
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SamWhitedjonasw: also, the first test in blue-blindness doesn't have enough columns (I think it's missing the g/b values)
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SamWhitedor something; it doesn't match the headers anyways, but it looks like others don't too so maybe the headers are wrong
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SamWhitedoh nevermind, I refreshed and that's already been fixed…
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jonaswSamWhited, if the columns changed, did you accidentally use the wrong tables?
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SamWhitedNo, I had two versions of the document open and didn't notice. I was using the right one when I put these values in though
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SamWhitedI found at least one bug in my blue correction, but fixing that just changed what's failing (all the others are failing and the second one is passing). It's very confusing.
jonaswcare to paste the cvd and test code?
jonaswwould be happy to take a look
SamWhitedsure, just a second
SamWhitedI'm still setting the wrong bit on the blue correction, will fix then push
SamWhited i = (i & 0x7fff) | (((i & 0x4000) << 1) ^ 0x8000) should do the right thing
jonaswyup, seems sane
SamWhitedThat's easy enough to make simple mistakes on that it might be worth including it in that section
jonaswyeah
SamWhitedSame for the "i &= 0x7fff" for red-green blindness
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jonaswnoted for the next update
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Ge0rGIt looks only slightly less awkward than the Java version. I've really started to love python's struct.pack() for those use cases
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jonaswint.from_bytes(hash[:2], "little") is what I did
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SamWhitedIn retrospect I'm not sure why I implemented Go's Hash interface. I can't imagine anyone wanting to use this for large amounts of data or wanting to pass it in as a replacement for some actual hash…
SamWhitedSo really I could remove all the API nonsense and have it just be a single function
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jonaswis anyone working on restoring xmpp.net, by the way? I recall Arc wanted to do something about that
jonaswhm, nice, the luasec version needed by xmpppoke doesn’t work with libssl1.1
Zash"nice", "luasec" and "openssl" in the same sentence? sarcasm detected
jonaswindeed
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jonaswdebian oldstable it is!
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HolgerYeah I built some of these things myself on check.messaging.one.
HolgerDebain oldstable too.
jonaswHolger, do you happen to have a recipe of some kind for that?
jonaswI’m trying to devise a dockerfile I can then throw at iteam
HolgerYou need an older OpenSSL anyway for the SSLv2 checking.
jonaswhm, maybe I should just use the libssl from testssl.sh?
HolgerI don't have proper docs sorry, but if you're stumbling over specific issues I can try to recall how I solved them.
jonaswnothing out of the ordinary yet
jonaswexcept that developing these things with docker is annoying
HolgerI also have various xmppoke backend/frontend fixes. But just a big diff, not individual commits, yay.
jonasw:/
jonaswcould you share these eventually?
HolgerI'm sorry. I was annoyed and wanted to get this set up quickly.
HolgerYes sure.
jonaswI understand :)
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HolgerI used OpenSSL 1.0.2k as that's the most-recent version with v2 support.
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HolgerNeeds "./config enable-ssl2 ...".
ZashI wonder if you can get away with just sending a raw SSL v2/v3 handshake and look for success/fail in the response, instead of having full support for it in OpenSSL
HolgerProbably.
jonaswI’m now giving it a shot with the OpenSSL build used by testssl.sh
jonaswwhich is 1.0.2k with some patches
HolgerAh.
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jonaswdoing the one thing one should probably never do with that piece of software: make insatll.
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HolgerAh the backend diff is not that bad actually: https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke.diff.txt
marcGe0rG, that's my vision of user invitation on mobile devices: https://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xmpp-invite-conversations.webm
marcProviding a username is optional, of course
Ge0rGMattJ: there, easy onboarding
SamWhitedjonasw: I figured out what I was looking at earlier when I thought the columns were wrong… in the other version of the document I had open it wasn't an old one, I was just scrolled down to the color pallete tests and they have the wrong number of fields
Ge0rGmarc: why do you need to enter two names?
marcGe0rG, username is optional (required in this setup) and predefines the username of the JID
marcGe0rG, your name = name of the inviter
Ge0rGmarc: you don't need any names to create an invitation
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marcGe0rG, sure, both are optional
marcor not even possible to be set, depends on your configuration
FlowAnd ideally the your name field is pre-filled with possibly existing vcard information
marcFlow, exactly!
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marcGe0rG, in my current ejabberd setup, inviter name and username are configured as "requried"
marcthat's why they need to be filled out
marcthe inviter name is also used for the roster item
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Ge0rGmarc: too many things to do....
Ge0rGGet the inviter name from the vCard and let the invitee specify their own name
marcGe0rG, once again, that's configurable
marcyou don't even see the input fields if you configure your server in that way
Flowbut pre fill the roster entry name on the invitee's UI with the possibly provided inviter name
Flowmarc: good job so far
marcGe0rG, if you click "invite contact" you immediatley get the QR code
marcGe0rG, that's just because I configured the server in that way...
marcFlow, thanks!
Flowwhat is the rationale for the "benutername"?
Flowwhat is the incentive for me to enter it?
marcFlow, you have the choice to predefine the JID
Flowpredefine the JID?
marcyou can set the username part of the new JID
Flowahh ok, I'd eventually switch the order of fields
marcIf Benutername = "marc", the JID of the new created account is marc@<server>
marcFlow, yes
Ge0rGI would leave that to the invitee
marcGe0rG, you can configure it ;)
marcFlow, just a proof of concept
Flowsure
marcBut a working one :)
ZashBeware those
marcBut UI is not perfect and there are some corner-case bugs
ZashI made a proof of concept once. Now everyone uses it as if it was production ready!
marcSure, that's why I didn't publish the code yet :D
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marcGe0rG, you're not really convinced, hm? :D
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Ge0rGmarc: you are doing a good job, and it's important to do. I'm just a hardcore perfectionist.
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ZashGetting the right level of feedback is Hard
Ge0rGmarc: do you need help wiring the XEP?
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Ge0rGI'm sometimes a bit blunt with my feedback, sorry
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ZashThe trick, according to some blag I saw once, is to make your thing look about as finished as it is
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marcGe0rG, good, I'm a perfectionist too :D
marcGe0rG, I have a XEP version with the protocol flow and some references but far away from "ready-to-submit"
marcI'll probably push it on my Git repo in a couple of days
Zashmarc: That sounds like "ready-to-submit" to me