XSF Discussion - 2017-11-30

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  117. daniel Kev: do you have a response to my last email in the mam group chat thread?
  118. Kev I'll try to get to that this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon. My current policy is to spend the mornings coding and afternoons dealing with everything else.
  119. daniel 👍
  120. SouL That's a good approach to life :)
  121. Kev I've got a bunch of other changes that need making for 313, so I'm tempted to write up a sentence that I think will make everyone happy, and include that in the patch and see what you think.
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  124. edhelas jonasw here ?
  125. jonasw edhelas, yes
  126. edhelas great :)
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  128. edhelas now that 0060 has been updated I'll see if I can update the XEPs that require multi-items
  129. edhelas I was thinking about 0277 and 0330 first
  130. edhelas also I'd like to move Bookmarks to that
  131. jonasw edhelas, bookmarks is a hot topic, at least wait for next weeks council discussion
  132. edhelas yup, I'll update the others because it's just about clarification
  133. jonasw for the others, go ahead, those are experimental and deferred
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  136. edhelas if you have other XEPs in mind please tell me
  137. jonasw I don’t, I’m not really in the pubsub space
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  140. edhelas you should come, it's fun over there
  141. jonasw nah, I’m busy in MAM space currently :)
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  164. edhelas I start to have users that are putting a lot of private information in their XMPP account
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  167. edhelas I find the standard authentication (password) quite weak and I'd like to know if we could discuss about that
  168. edhelas basically maybe work on 2FA and password recovery
  169. jonasw edhelas, regarding 2FA, SASL2 might be for you
  170. jonasw [xep 388]
  171. jonasw -xep 388
  172. Bunneh jonasw: Extensible SASL Profile (Standards Track, Experimental, 2017-08-24) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0388.html
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  174. edhelas ah nice
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  188. dwd edhelas, I have a load of stuff done (coded up, everything) on this.
  189. dwd edhelas, I need to find the time to finish off the spec work.
  190. dwd edhelas, But if you want to help out that'd be awesome.
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  201. daniel zinid, to answer your question regarding bookmarks and avatars. this was postponed to next week. we haven't talked about this yesterday
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  203. edhelas zinid what was your question ?
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  207. zinid edhelas, I just asked what was the conclusion on bookmarks and avatars XEPs
  208. zinid edhelas, it seems like some guys don't want PEP based avatars, for the record 🙂 Probably you won't like it a lot 🙂
  209. edhelas I want PEP for everything :p
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  215. zinid I know 😛
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  219. pep. I know
  220. pep. rrr self_ping
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  272. Guus nyco - are you here for the upcoming board meeting?
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  279. ralphm I tried pinging nyco myself this morning and half an hour ago. No response yet.
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  281. Guus as did I - same result
  282. ralphm I learned from a colleague he's unavailable until at least 5pm, so I don't expect him
  283. Guus ah, to bad.
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  285. Guus well, let's give it a few minutes, see if we're lucky.
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  288. Guus if only we had a mechanism that'd allow us to see the availability of someone online... ;)
  289. SouL :D
  290. ralphm bangs gavel
  291. ralphm 0. Welcome and Agenda
  292. ralphm Hi, new board! Who do we have?
  293. MattJ waves
  294. Martin I'm here
  295. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  296. Guus o/
  297. ralphm As said before the meeting, through the grapevine, I've learned that's unlikely that nyco will attend today.
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  299. ralphm My suggested agenda is relatively simple: pick a Chair.
  300. ralphm The Board should also later appoint other Officers.
  301. Guus I'd like to quickly run over the outstanding Trello cards, see what's still relevant.
  302. dwd Can you pick a chair in the absence of a full Board?
  303. ralphm dwd: this is indeed a good question. I've tried getting into contact with nyco in various ways. So has Guus.
  304. Guus dwd: I'd be uncomfortable doing so.
  305. ralphm I'm not happy about that either
  306. Guus I would not object to postpone picking a chair until we all are present, and move on with other business, having Ralph continue to be chair for the time being.
  307. ralphm I think that's acceptable with regard to the bylaws, but opinions welcome.
  308. MattJ I'm fine to continue
  309. ralphm ok, so then I only offer the point of Appointment of Officers for the agenda
  310. MattJ I don't see how the bylaws would forbid it (though neither how they require the full board to elect the chair)
  311. ralphm along with walking over the Trello board
  312. ralphm 1. Confirm minute taker
  313. ralphm Who will do the honors?
  314. ralphm (dwd?)
  315. Guus I'll do them
  316. Kev (Belatedly, I think delaying voting on a new Chair until all are present is ideal too)
  317. ralphm Guus: appreciated, but it would also be nice if it was not a Board member, so that's why I ask
  318. ralphm last term dwd offered
  319. Kev I'm AFK in a few minutes, so I can't, sorry.
  320. ralphm Kev: thanks!
  321. Guus Ralphm: I'd be happy for someone else to do them. :)
  322. ralphm :-)
  323. ralphm Let's see if someone else pops up, but for now it is you
  324. dwd I'm only somewhat here. Rather busy today.
  325. ralphm ok
  326. ralphm 2. Appointment of Officers
  327. Guus What Officers?
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  329. ralphm Besides the Chair, we also need to re-appoint Secretary, Treasurer and Executive Director.
  330. ralphm In the previous term, Peter has noted he wanted to step down as ED
  331. MattJ Didn't Peter indicate intent to resign the position(s)?
  332. Guus I've not read up in the bylaws. Can you outline the procedure?
  333. ralphm but would still be Treasurer. Alex is our current secretary.
  334. ralphm Let's ask them if they want to continue for another term
  335. ralphm Guus: what!
  336. ralphm ARTICLE VI: Officers Section 6.1 Number and Qualifications. The officers of the Corporation shall consist of the following: (a) a Chair, (b) an Executive Director, (c) a Secretary, and (d) a Treasurer. Officers must be natural persons that the Board of Directors elects or appoints. Officers need not be Directors of the Corporation and shall hold office at the discretion of the Board of Directors. Subject to these Bylaws, the Board of Directors may also elect or appoint one or more additional officers or assistant officers as it may deem convenient or necessary. Except as provided in these Bylaws, the Board of Directors shall fix the powers and duties of all officers.
  337. ralphm (oh, Gajim, you are so funny with emoticons)
  338. Guus that doesn't state a term for those officers. Is there a requirement to re-appoint them?
  339. Guus (apart from ED, who has expressed intention to step down)
  340. ralphm Guus: please read the bylaws
  341. Guus Ok
  342. ralphm The term is 1 year for all officers
  343. Guus In any case, I'm happy with the suggestion to ask the existing officers to continue for another term.
  344. ralphm Ok.
  345. MattJ "Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal."
  346. ralphm Yeah, I think that is a bit ambiguous.
  347. Guus Doesn't hurt to ask them explicitly.
  348. ralphm Does it mean you'll hold the office beyond a year if no-one else comes up?
  349. ralphm anyway
  350. Guus Shall I draft a quick email to both?
  351. ralphm 3. Sure
  352. ralphm oops
  353. ralphm sure!
  354. ralphm 3. Topics for decisions
  355. ralphm I see the item of renaming Draft to Stable.
  356. ralphm I think we said last time that there's no consensus. Can we remove this item?
  357. ralphm MattJ?
  358. MattJ I think we can remove it for now, until a new proposal is made
  359. MattJ The current one did not reach consensus
  360. Guus Agreed.
  361. ralphm 4. Commitments
  362. ralphm Apart from that e-mail by Guus, I'd like to add one for searching for a replacement ED
  363. ralphm While I'm Chair, I'll take that one
  364. ralphm There's also an item about a D&O quote. I think I need to figure that out with stpeter, too.
  365. Guus What is that?
  366. ralphm My point
  367. ralphm I think nobody remembers exactly
  368. Guus also: as Peter is no board member - why are we tracking this?
  369. ralphm Peter is Executive Director
  370. ralphm and Treasurer
  371. MattJ It was a task assigned to Peter by the boar
  372. MattJ *d
  373. MattJ iirc
  374. Guus ah.
  375. ralphm in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretart and the Chair of Council
  376. ralphm in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretary and the Chair of Council
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  379. Guus No-one remembers what 'D&O' is?
  380. dwd Guus, Director and Officer insurance.
  381. MattJ Insurance
  382. Guus ah
  383. Guus thanks
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  385. ralphm Last comment I saw by Peter was 30-8:
  386. ralphm This fell off my radar screen. If it is still a priority I can look into it again. It tends to be expensive, but I can report back on details.
  387. Guus Actually, I've looked into this for another Foundation - it doesn't need to be that expensive.
  388. ralphm Guus: if you want, please check with Peter
  389. Guus but that might be in a Dutch setting only - unsure
  390. Guus Ok, I will
  391. ralphm 5. Items for discussion
  392. ralphm Let's use this to quickly go over the backlog
  393. ralphm Last Board failed to agree on a list of priorities. So let's try for real this time
  394. ralphm I'm not sure about the IoT strategy doc, alternative meeting org
  395. ralphm the meetups sync seems to be for SCAM?
  396. Guus as there's no progress on both for a long time, lets archive the IoT strategy doc and alternative meeting org.
  397. ralphm Aye
  398. Guus I agree on the meetup sync bit - that aught to be scam
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  400. ralphm for the SPIM thing, that doesn't require anything from us right now. Anyone can write a XEP to propose this
  401. Guus I think the idea of a SPIM-focussed work team is something to be discussed.
  402. ralphm ok
  403. Guus Ah. I read that as: create a group of people focussed on that, solely.
  404. ralphm Not sure if that needs Board, but sure, let's put it there
  405. Guus I'm not sure why people be more inclined to work on that after being grouped though.
  406. MattJ Yeah, I think some concrete goals should be defined before forming the group
  407. ralphm That leaves us with the membership survey
  408. MattJ Rather than just a vague "we need to fix the spam problem, let's form a group"
  409. ralphm Shall I keep that for discussion?
  410. Guus doesn't the survey tie in with the priorities?
  411. ralphm maybe
  412. Guus as in: one's output should be the others input?
  413. ralphm I'd also like everyone to think about the priorities next to that
  414. Guus nyco appears to have done quite some legwork on that
  415. ralphm I mean, we are part of the community, too, so there might be some things you already know you want to work on this term
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  418. ralphm Shall I move it to discussion then?
  419. MattJ +1
  420. Guus sure
  421. ralphm Ok. I think we're out of time
  422. ralphm 6. Date of Next
  423. Ge0rG I've asked for the creation of a SPAM taskforce, which would operate behind closed doors at first, but it was not deemed acceptable.
  424. ralphm I suggest +1W
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  426. ralphm until we hear from nyco otherwise
  427. Martin +1W is fine with me
  428. MattJ +1W++
  429. ralphm Ge0rG: that's not entirely true. There was simply no consensus
  430. Guus Shall I provisionally move the scheduled item in the calendar?
  431. ralphm (yet)
  432. Guus (works for me)
  433. ralphm Guus: yes please
  434. ralphm 7. Close
  435. ralphm Thanks all!
  436. Guus one AOB: there's an old wiki page for board with stale data. Can we remove that?
  437. Ge0rG ralphm: I think the consensus was that anybody can form any kind of closed group and that the XSF shouldn't approve of this specific one
  438. ralphm Guus: A link would be good.
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  440. Guus https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board
  441. Ge0rG ralphm: that was not meant as a criticism, I'm okay with the decision - just a reminder of why this was on the agenda
  442. ralphm Guus: sure archive
  443. Guus Instead, I propose to redirect that link to the public website (which is what we do for Council, too)
  444. ralphm Ge0rG: so we can remove it from our Trello then?
  445. Ge0rG ralphm: unless you want to form an official SPIM fighting group open to the public, I think you can remove it
  446. ralphm I'll leave it on for next week, and then we make that decision
  447. ralphm bangs gavel
  448. MattJ Thanks ralphm
  449. Ge0rG thanks, Board :)
  450. Guus thank you guys
  451. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  452. Ge0rG MattJ: I'm still missing you in that MUC, and I think you are still blocking messages from strangers.
  453. Guus Can someone give me access to Trello, please?
  454. Guus the Board board, specifically.
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  456. ralphm I will
  457. Guus tx
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  459. MattJ Ge0rG, invite me? I'm not blocking messages from strangers (since a while back, as my receipt of many spam messages proves)
  460. ralphm Guus: what's your handle?
  461. Ge0rG MattJ: invited you, once again :)
  462. MattJ Ok, weird, I didn't receive it :/
  463. Ge0rG MattJ: last time we tried it, it was blocked by some module/config on your server/account.
  464. Guus ralphm: guusderkinderen
  465. ralphm done
  466. Guus I've just rescheduled the XSF Board agenda item in the calendar - can someone kindly verify that I didn't mess up?
  467. Guus ralphm: thanks
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  469. ralphm Looks good to me, Guus. Thanks
  470. Guus great
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  472. jonasw SamWhited, re colors, I’m thinking of putting the base algorithm in a single block, and only noting the differences for the individual modifications (like CVD correction, background correction etc.) in separate sections
  473. jonasw in addition to cleaning up my reference implementation and putting it somewhere public
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  497. SamWhited hmm, my CVD corretion doesn't appear to be working, but without that it's passing the tests
  498. SamWhited I don't think that was due to anything confusing in the document though, just a bug of mine
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  509. SamWhited ah yah, MSB not LSB
  510. SamWhited jonasw: I think the second test for blue-blindness correction may be wrong, can you confirm the values there when you get a moment?
  511. jonasw sure
  512. jonasw working on those things at the moment anyways
  513. SamWhited hmm, my naive impression is that for blue-blindness that color wouldn't change actually (no blue component when I convert it to RGB), so maybe my implementation is broken. Not sure how it would affect that single value though
  514. jonasw maybe the others aren’t affected by blue correction
  515. SamWhited The first one shouldn't be either, but it appears to be changing (and my implementation seems to work there)
  516. SamWhited Well, I say "shouldn't be", I'm not sure, I'm just guessing based on the blue component
  517. SamWhited I should do the floating point version of the math and check
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  521. SamWhited That's weird, if I check the angle before applying the correction it is different from yours for everything *except* this one, but the final result is correct for everything except this one.
  522. jonasw what
  523. jonasw that’s weird
  524. jonasw I haven’t checked the non-floating-point way though
  525. jonasw I just trusted what Marcel said on list
  526. jonasw I’ll try to implement that in the C++ app I’m currently building right now
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  529. jonasw afk for dinner now though
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  537. SamWhited jonasw: also, the first test in blue-blindness doesn't have enough columns (I think it's missing the g/b values)
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  539. SamWhited or something; it doesn't match the headers anyways, but it looks like others don't too so maybe the headers are wrong
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  542. SamWhited oh nevermind, I refreshed and that's already been fixed…
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  557. jonasw SamWhited, if the columns changed, did you accidentally use the wrong tables?
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  562. SamWhited No, I had two versions of the document open and didn't notice. I was using the right one when I put these values in though
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  565. SamWhited I found at least one bug in my blue correction, but fixing that just changed what's failing (all the others are failing and the second one is passing). It's very confusing.
  566. jonasw care to paste the cvd and test code?
  567. jonasw would be happy to take a look
  568. SamWhited sure, just a second
  569. SamWhited I'm still setting the wrong bit on the blue correction, will fix then push
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  571. jonasw anglei = (anglei & 0x7fff) | ((anglei & 0x4000) << 1);
  572. jonasw this is what I’m doing and I think it does the right thing
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  576. SamWhited jonasw: isn't it the inverse of the second bit you want?
  577. jonasw the second-most-significant
  578. jonasw so if 15th is the most significant, you want the inverse of the 14th
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  580. jonasw right
  581. SamWhited right, there you're just taking the second most significant not doing the inverse
  582. jonasw that’s not the inverse.
  583. jonasw now I need to hceck which is correct with the FP version :)
  584. jonasw (I *think* that both would work)
  585. jonasw cvd-wise
  586. jonasw yeah, with ~ before the last anglei
  587. jonasw interesting, apparently CSS will apply **0.45 to the colors, while Qt wont
  588. jonasw that’s great >.>
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  590. jonasw or something else is fishy
  591. SamWhited Fixed it, I had an order of operations issue the whole time *facepalm*
  592. SamWhited https://bitbucket.org/mellium/xmpp/branch/xep0392_color
  593. SamWhited i = (i & 0x7fff) | (((i & 0x4000) << 1) ^ 0x8000) should do the right thing
  594. jonasw yup, seems sane
  595. SamWhited That's easy enough to make simple mistakes on that it might be worth including it in that section
  596. jonasw yeah
  597. SamWhited Same for the "i &= 0x7fff" for red-green blindness
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  600. jonasw noted for the next update
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  620. Ge0rG It looks only slightly less awkward than the Java version. I've really started to love python's struct.pack() for those use cases
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  623. jonasw int.from_bytes(hash[:2], "little") is what I did
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  635. SamWhited In retrospect I'm not sure why I implemented Go's Hash interface. I can't imagine anyone wanting to use this for large amounts of data or wanting to pass it in as a replacement for some actual hash…
  636. SamWhited So really I could remove all the API nonsense and have it just be a single function
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  650. jonasw is anyone working on restoring xmpp.net, by the way? I recall Arc wanted to do something about that
  651. jonasw hm, nice, the luasec version needed by xmpppoke doesn’t work with libssl1.1
  652. Zash "nice", "luasec" and "openssl" in the same sentence? sarcasm detected
  653. jonasw indeed
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  655. jonasw debian oldstable it is!
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  657. Holger Yeah I built some of these things myself on check.messaging.one.
  658. Holger Debain oldstable too.
  659. jonasw Holger, do you happen to have a recipe of some kind for that?
  660. jonasw I’m trying to devise a dockerfile I can then throw at iteam
  661. Holger You need an older OpenSSL anyway for the SSLv2 checking.
  662. jonasw hm, maybe I should just use the libssl from testssl.sh?
  663. Holger I don't have proper docs sorry, but if you're stumbling over specific issues I can try to recall how I solved them.
  664. jonasw nothing out of the ordinary yet
  665. jonasw except that developing these things with docker is annoying
  666. Holger I also have various xmppoke backend/frontend fixes. But just a big diff, not individual commits, yay.
  667. jonasw :/
  668. jonasw could you share these eventually?
  669. Holger I'm sorry. I was annoyed and wanted to get this set up quickly.
  670. Holger Yes sure.
  671. jonasw I understand :)
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  673. Holger I used OpenSSL 1.0.2k as that's the most-recent version with v2 support.
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  676. Holger Needs "./config enable-ssl2 ...".
  677. Zash I wonder if you can get away with just sending a raw SSL v2/v3 handshake and look for success/fail in the response, instead of having full support for it in OpenSSL
  678. Holger Probably.
  679. jonasw I’m now giving it a shot with the OpenSSL build used by testssl.sh
  680. jonasw which is 1.0.2k with some patches
  681. Holger Ah.
  682. daniel has left
  683. jonasw doing the one thing one should probably never do with that piece of software: make insatll.
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  685. Holger Ah the backend diff is not that bad actually: https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke.diff.txt
  686. jonasw indeed
  687. Holger The frontend diff is :-/
  688. Holger https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke-frontend.diff.txt
  689. Holger ... because there's bug fixes hidden between all those cosmetic changes.
  690. zinid https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/meme/images/1/1d/Yt655563971_a663674241_z.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150712012656
  691. Holger Haha.
  692. zinid me when I see web thing
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  708. marc Ge0rG, that's my vision of user invitation on mobile devices: https://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xmpp-invite-conversations.webm
  709. marc Providing a username is optional, of course
  710. Ge0rG MattJ: there, easy onboarding
  711. SamWhited jonasw: I figured out what I was looking at earlier when I thought the columns were wrong… in the other version of the document I had open it wasn't an old one, I was just scrolled down to the color pallete tests and they have the wrong number of fields
  712. Ge0rG marc: why do you need to enter two names?
  713. marc Ge0rG, username is optional (required in this setup) and predefines the username of the JID
  714. marc Ge0rG, your name = name of the inviter
  715. Ge0rG marc: you don't need any names to create an invitation
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  717. marc Ge0rG, sure, both are optional
  718. marc or not even possible to be set, depends on your configuration
  719. Flow And ideally the your name field is pre-filled with possibly existing vcard information
  720. marc Flow, exactly!
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  722. marc Ge0rG, in my current ejabberd setup, inviter name and username are configured as "requried"
  723. marc that's why they need to be filled out
  724. marc the inviter name is also used for the roster item
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  726. Ge0rG marc: too many things to do....
  727. Ge0rG Get the inviter name from the vCard and let the invitee specify their own name
  728. marc Ge0rG, once again, that's configurable
  729. marc you don't even see the input fields if you configure your server in that way
  730. Flow but pre fill the roster entry name on the invitee's UI with the possibly provided inviter name
  731. Flow marc: good job so far
  732. marc Ge0rG, if you click "invite contact" you immediatley get the QR code
  733. marc Ge0rG, that's just because I configured the server in that way...
  734. marc Flow, thanks!
  735. Flow what is the rationale for the "benutername"?
  736. Flow what is the incentive for me to enter it?
  737. marc Flow, you have the choice to predefine the JID
  738. Flow predefine the JID?
  739. marc you can set the username part of the new JID
  740. Flow ahh ok, I'd eventually switch the order of fields
  741. marc If Benutername = "marc", the JID of the new created account is marc@<server>
  742. marc Flow, yes
  743. Ge0rG I would leave that to the invitee
  744. marc Ge0rG, you can configure it ;)
  745. marc Flow, just a proof of concept
  746. Flow sure
  747. marc But a working one :)
  748. Zash Beware those
  749. marc But UI is not perfect and there are some corner-case bugs
  750. Zash I made a proof of concept once. Now everyone uses it as if it was production ready!
  751. marc Sure, that's why I didn't publish the code yet :D
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  757. marc Ge0rG, you're not really convinced, hm? :D
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  771. Ge0rG marc: you are doing a good job, and it's important to do. I'm just a hardcore perfectionist.
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  774. Zash Getting the right level of feedback is Hard
  775. Ge0rG marc: do you need help wiring the XEP?
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  778. Ge0rG I'm sometimes a bit blunt with my feedback, sorry
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  780. Zash The trick, according to some blag I saw once, is to make your thing look about as finished as it is
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  784. marc Ge0rG, good, I'm a perfectionist too :D
  785. marc Ge0rG, I have a XEP version with the protocol flow and some references but far away from "ready-to-submit"
  786. marc I'll probably push it on my Git repo in a couple of days
  787. Zash marc: That sounds like "ready-to-submit" to me
  788. marc Zash, not for a perfectionist :>
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