-
daniel
Kev: do you have a response to my last email in the mam group chat thread?
-
Kev
I'll try to get to that this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon. My current policy is to spend the mornings coding and afternoons dealing with everything else.
-
daniel
👍
-
SouL
That's a good approach to life :)
-
Kev
I've got a bunch of other changes that need making for 313, so I'm tempted to write up a sentence that I think will make everyone happy, and include that in the patch and see what you think.
-
edhelas
jonasw here ?
-
jonasw
edhelas, yes
-
edhelas
great :)
-
edhelas
now that 0060 has been updated I'll see if I can update the XEPs that require multi-items
-
edhelas
I was thinking about 0277 and 0330 first
-
edhelas
also I'd like to move Bookmarks to that
-
jonasw
edhelas, bookmarks is a hot topic, at least wait for next weeks council discussion
-
edhelas
yup, I'll update the others because it's just about clarification
-
jonasw
for the others, go ahead, those are experimental and deferred
-
edhelas
if you have other XEPs in mind please tell me
-
jonasw
I don’t, I’m not really in the pubsub space
-
edhelas
you should come, it's fun over there
-
jonasw
nah, I’m busy in MAM space currently :)
-
edhelas
I start to have users that are putting a lot of private information in their XMPP account
-
edhelas
I find the standard authentication (password) quite weak and I'd like to know if we could discuss about that
-
edhelas
basically maybe work on 2FA and password recovery
-
jonasw
edhelas, regarding 2FA, SASL2 might be for you
-
jonasw
[xep 388]
-
jonasw
-xep 388
-
Bunneh
jonasw: Extensible SASL Profile (Standards Track, Experimental, 2017-08-24) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0388.html
-
edhelas
ah nice
-
dwd
edhelas, I have a load of stuff done (coded up, everything) on this.
-
dwd
edhelas, I need to find the time to finish off the spec work.
-
dwd
edhelas, But if you want to help out that'd be awesome.
-
daniel
zinid, to answer your question regarding bookmarks and avatars. this was postponed to next week. we haven't talked about this yesterday
-
edhelas
zinid what was your question ?
-
zinid
edhelas, I just asked what was the conclusion on bookmarks and avatars XEPs
-
zinid
edhelas, it seems like some guys don't want PEP based avatars, for the record 🙂 Probably you won't like it a lot 🙂
-
edhelas
I want PEP for everything :p
-
zinid
I know 😛
-
pep.
I know
-
pep.
rrr self_ping
-
Guus
nyco - are you here for the upcoming board meeting?
-
ralphm
I tried pinging nyco myself this morning and half an hour ago. No response yet.
-
Guus
as did I - same result
-
ralphm
I learned from a colleague he's unavailable until at least 5pm, so I don't expect him
-
Guus
ah, to bad.
-
Guus
well, let's give it a few minutes, see if we're lucky.
-
Guus
if only we had a mechanism that'd allow us to see the availability of someone online... ;)
-
SouL
:D
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
ralphm
0. Welcome and Agenda
-
ralphm
Hi, new board! Who do we have?
- MattJ waves
-
Martin
I'm here
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
-
Guus
o/
-
ralphm
As said before the meeting, through the grapevine, I've learned that's unlikely that nyco will attend today.
-
ralphm
My suggested agenda is relatively simple: pick a Chair.
-
ralphm
The Board should also later appoint other Officers.
-
Guus
I'd like to quickly run over the outstanding Trello cards, see what's still relevant.
-
dwd
Can you pick a chair in the absence of a full Board?
-
ralphm
dwd: this is indeed a good question. I've tried getting into contact with nyco in various ways. So has Guus.
-
Guus
dwd: I'd be uncomfortable doing so.
-
ralphm
I'm not happy about that either
-
Guus
I would not object to postpone picking a chair until we all are present, and move on with other business, having Ralph continue to be chair for the time being.
-
ralphm
I think that's acceptable with regard to the bylaws, but opinions welcome.
-
MattJ
I'm fine to continue
-
ralphm
ok, so then I only offer the point of Appointment of Officers for the agenda
-
MattJ
I don't see how the bylaws would forbid it (though neither how they require the full board to elect the chair)
-
ralphm
along with walking over the Trello board
-
ralphm
1. Confirm minute taker
-
ralphm
Who will do the honors?
-
ralphm
(dwd?)
-
Guus
I'll do them
-
Kev
(Belatedly, I think delaying voting on a new Chair until all are present is ideal too)
-
ralphm
Guus: appreciated, but it would also be nice if it was not a Board member, so that's why I ask
-
ralphm
last term dwd offered
-
Kev
I'm AFK in a few minutes, so I can't, sorry.
-
ralphm
Kev: thanks!
-
Guus
Ralphm: I'd be happy for someone else to do them. :)
-
ralphm
:-)
-
ralphm
Let's see if someone else pops up, but for now it is you
-
dwd
I'm only somewhat here. Rather busy today.
-
ralphm
ok
-
ralphm
2. Appointment of Officers
-
Guus
What Officers?
-
ralphm
Besides the Chair, we also need to re-appoint Secretary, Treasurer and Executive Director.
-
ralphm
In the previous term, Peter has noted he wanted to step down as ED
-
MattJ
Didn't Peter indicate intent to resign the position(s)?
-
Guus
I've not read up in the bylaws. Can you outline the procedure?
-
ralphm
but would still be Treasurer. Alex is our current secretary.
-
ralphm
Let's ask them if they want to continue for another term
-
ralphm
Guus: what!
-
ralphm
ARTICLE VI: Officers Section 6.1 Number and Qualifications. The officers of the Corporation shall consist of the following: (a) a Chair, (b) an Executive Director, (c) a Secretary, and (d) a Treasurer. Officers must be natural persons that the Board of Directors elects or appoints. Officers need not be Directors of the Corporation and shall hold office at the discretion of the Board of Directors. Subject to these Bylaws, the Board of Directors may also elect or appoint one or more additional officers or assistant officers as it may deem convenient or necessary. Except as provided in these Bylaws, the Board of Directors shall fix the powers and duties of all officers.
-
ralphm
(oh, Gajim, you are so funny with emoticons)
-
Guus
that doesn't state a term for those officers. Is there a requirement to re-appoint them?
-
Guus
(apart from ED, who has expressed intention to step down)
-
ralphm
Guus: please read the bylaws
-
Guus
Ok
-
ralphm
The term is 1 year for all officers
-
Guus
In any case, I'm happy with the suggestion to ask the existing officers to continue for another term.
-
ralphm
Ok.
-
MattJ
"Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal."
-
ralphm
Yeah, I think that is a bit ambiguous.
-
Guus
Doesn't hurt to ask them explicitly.
-
ralphm
Does it mean you'll hold the office beyond a year if no-one else comes up?
-
ralphm
anyway
-
Guus
Shall I draft a quick email to both?
-
ralphm
3. Sure
-
ralphm
oops
-
ralphm
sure!
-
ralphm
3. Topics for decisions
-
ralphm
I see the item of renaming Draft to Stable.
-
ralphm
I think we said last time that there's no consensus. Can we remove this item?
-
ralphm
MattJ?
-
MattJ
I think we can remove it for now, until a new proposal is made
-
MattJ
The current one did not reach consensus
-
Guus
Agreed.
-
ralphm
4. Commitments
-
ralphm
Apart from that e-mail by Guus, I'd like to add one for searching for a replacement ED
-
ralphm
While I'm Chair, I'll take that one
-
ralphm
There's also an item about a D&O quote. I think I need to figure that out with stpeter, too.
-
Guus
What is that?
-
ralphm
My point
-
ralphm
I think nobody remembers exactly
-
Guus
also: as Peter is no board member - why are we tracking this?
-
ralphm
Peter is Executive Director
-
ralphm
and Treasurer
-
MattJ
It was a task assigned to Peter by the boar
-
MattJ
*d
-
MattJ
iirc
-
Guus
ah.
-
ralphm
in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretart and the Chair of Council✎ -
ralphm
in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretary and the Chair of Council ✏
-
Guus
No-one remembers what 'D&O' is?
-
dwd
Guus, Director and Officer insurance.
-
MattJ
Insurance
-
Guus
ah
-
Guus
thanks
-
ralphm
Last comment I saw by Peter was 30-8:
-
ralphm
This fell off my radar screen. If it is still a priority I can look into it again. It tends to be expensive, but I can report back on details.
-
Guus
Actually, I've looked into this for another Foundation - it doesn't need to be that expensive.
-
ralphm
Guus: if you want, please check with Peter
-
Guus
but that might be in a Dutch setting only - unsure
-
Guus
Ok, I will
-
ralphm
5. Items for discussion
-
ralphm
Let's use this to quickly go over the backlog
-
ralphm
Last Board failed to agree on a list of priorities. So let's try for real this time
-
ralphm
I'm not sure about the IoT strategy doc, alternative meeting org
-
ralphm
the meetups sync seems to be for SCAM?
-
Guus
as there's no progress on both for a long time, lets archive the IoT strategy doc and alternative meeting org.
-
ralphm
Aye
-
Guus
I agree on the meetup sync bit - that aught to be scam
-
ralphm
for the SPIM thing, that doesn't require anything from us right now. Anyone can write a XEP to propose this
-
Guus
I think the idea of a SPIM-focussed work team is something to be discussed.
-
ralphm
ok
-
Guus
Ah. I read that as: create a group of people focussed on that, solely.
-
ralphm
Not sure if that needs Board, but sure, let's put it there
-
Guus
I'm not sure why people be more inclined to work on that after being grouped though.
-
MattJ
Yeah, I think some concrete goals should be defined before forming the group
-
ralphm
That leaves us with the membership survey
-
MattJ
Rather than just a vague "we need to fix the spam problem, let's form a group"
-
ralphm
Shall I keep that for discussion?
-
Guus
doesn't the survey tie in with the priorities?
-
ralphm
maybe
-
Guus
as in: one's output should be the others input?
-
ralphm
I'd also like everyone to think about the priorities next to that
-
Guus
nyco appears to have done quite some legwork on that
-
ralphm
I mean, we are part of the community, too, so there might be some things you already know you want to work on this term
-
ralphm
Shall I move it to discussion then?
-
MattJ
+1
-
Guus
sure
-
ralphm
Ok. I think we're out of time
-
ralphm
6. Date of Next
-
Ge0rG
I've asked for the creation of a SPAM taskforce, which would operate behind closed doors at first, but it was not deemed acceptable.
-
ralphm
I suggest +1W
-
ralphm
until we hear from nyco otherwise
-
Martin
+1W is fine with me
-
MattJ
+1W++
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: that's not entirely true. There was simply no consensus
-
Guus
Shall I provisionally move the scheduled item in the calendar?
-
ralphm
(yet)
-
Guus
(works for me)
-
ralphm
Guus: yes please
-
ralphm
7. Close
-
ralphm
Thanks all!
-
Guus
one AOB: there's an old wiki page for board with stale data. Can we remove that?
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: I think the consensus was that anybody can form any kind of closed group and that the XSF shouldn't approve of this specific one
-
ralphm
Guus: A link would be good.
-
Guus
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: that was not meant as a criticism, I'm okay with the decision - just a reminder of why this was on the agenda
-
ralphm
Guus: sure archive
-
Guus
Instead, I propose to redirect that link to the public website (which is what we do for Council, too)
-
ralphm
Ge0rG: so we can remove it from our Trello then?
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: unless you want to form an official SPIM fighting group open to the public, I think you can remove it
-
ralphm
I'll leave it on for next week, and then we make that decision
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
MattJ
Thanks ralphm
-
Ge0rG
thanks, Board :)
-
Guus
thank you guys
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: I'm still missing you in that MUC, and I think you are still blocking messages from strangers.
-
Guus
Can someone give me access to Trello, please?
-
Guus
the Board board, specifically.
-
ralphm
I will
-
Guus
tx
-
MattJ
Ge0rG, invite me? I'm not blocking messages from strangers (since a while back, as my receipt of many spam messages proves)
-
ralphm
Guus: what's your handle?
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: invited you, once again :)
-
MattJ
Ok, weird, I didn't receive it :/
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: last time we tried it, it was blocked by some module/config on your server/account.
-
Guus
ralphm: guusderkinderen
-
ralphm
done
-
Guus
I've just rescheduled the XSF Board agenda item in the calendar - can someone kindly verify that I didn't mess up?
-
Guus
ralphm: thanks
-
ralphm
Looks good to me, Guus. Thanks
-
Guus
great
-
jonasw
SamWhited, re colors, I’m thinking of putting the base algorithm in a single block, and only noting the differences for the individual modifications (like CVD correction, background correction etc.) in separate sections
-
jonasw
in addition to cleaning up my reference implementation and putting it somewhere public
-
SamWhited
hmm, my CVD corretion doesn't appear to be working, but without that it's passing the tests
-
SamWhited
I don't think that was due to anything confusing in the document though, just a bug of mine
-
SamWhited
ah yah, MSB not LSB
-
SamWhited
jonasw: I think the second test for blue-blindness correction may be wrong, can you confirm the values there when you get a moment?
-
jonasw
sure
-
jonasw
working on those things at the moment anyways
-
SamWhited
hmm, my naive impression is that for blue-blindness that color wouldn't change actually (no blue component when I convert it to RGB), so maybe my implementation is broken. Not sure how it would affect that single value though
-
jonasw
maybe the others aren’t affected by blue correction
-
SamWhited
The first one shouldn't be either, but it appears to be changing (and my implementation seems to work there)
-
SamWhited
Well, I say "shouldn't be", I'm not sure, I'm just guessing based on the blue component
-
SamWhited
I should do the floating point version of the math and check
-
SamWhited
That's weird, if I check the angle before applying the correction it is different from yours for everything *except* this one, but the final result is correct for everything except this one.
-
jonasw
what
-
jonasw
that’s weird
-
jonasw
I haven’t checked the non-floating-point way though
-
jonasw
I just trusted what Marcel said on list
-
jonasw
I’ll try to implement that in the C++ app I’m currently building right now
-
jonasw
afk for dinner now though
-
SamWhited
jonasw: also, the first test in blue-blindness doesn't have enough columns (I think it's missing the g/b values)
-
SamWhited
or something; it doesn't match the headers anyways, but it looks like others don't too so maybe the headers are wrong
-
SamWhited
oh nevermind, I refreshed and that's already been fixed…
-
jonasw
SamWhited, if the columns changed, did you accidentally use the wrong tables?
-
SamWhited
No, I had two versions of the document open and didn't notice. I was using the right one when I put these values in though
-
SamWhited
I found at least one bug in my blue correction, but fixing that just changed what's failing (all the others are failing and the second one is passing). It's very confusing.
-
jonasw
care to paste the cvd and test code?
-
jonasw
would be happy to take a look
-
SamWhited
sure, just a second
-
SamWhited
I'm still setting the wrong bit on the blue correction, will fix then push
-
jonasw
anglei = (anglei & 0x7fff) | ((anglei & 0x4000) << 1);
-
jonasw
this is what I’m doing and I think it does the right thing
-
SamWhited
jonasw: isn't it the inverse of the second bit you want?
-
jonasw
the second-most-significant
-
jonasw
so if 15th is the most significant, you want the inverse of the 14th
-
jonasw
right
-
SamWhited
right, there you're just taking the second most significant not doing the inverse
-
jonasw
that’s not the inverse.
-
jonasw
now I need to hceck which is correct with the FP version :)
-
jonasw
(I *think* that both would work)
-
jonasw
cvd-wise
-
jonasw
yeah, with ~ before the last anglei
-
jonasw
interesting, apparently CSS will apply **0.45 to the colors, while Qt wont
-
jonasw
that’s great >.>
-
jonasw
or something else is fishy
-
SamWhited
Fixed it, I had an order of operations issue the whole time *facepalm*
-
SamWhited
https://bitbucket.org/mellium/xmpp/branch/xep0392_color
-
SamWhited
i = (i & 0x7fff) | (((i & 0x4000) << 1) ^ 0x8000) should do the right thing
-
jonasw
yup, seems sane
-
SamWhited
That's easy enough to make simple mistakes on that it might be worth including it in that section
-
jonasw
yeah
-
SamWhited
Same for the "i &= 0x7fff" for red-green blindness
-
jonasw
noted for the next update
-
Ge0rG
It looks only slightly less awkward than the Java version. I've really started to love python's struct.pack() for those use cases
-
jonasw
int.from_bytes(hash[:2], "little") is what I did
-
SamWhited
In retrospect I'm not sure why I implemented Go's Hash interface. I can't imagine anyone wanting to use this for large amounts of data or wanting to pass it in as a replacement for some actual hash…
-
SamWhited
So really I could remove all the API nonsense and have it just be a single function
-
jonasw
is anyone working on restoring xmpp.net, by the way? I recall Arc wanted to do something about that
-
jonasw
hm, nice, the luasec version needed by xmpppoke doesn’t work with libssl1.1
-
Zash
"nice", "luasec" and "openssl" in the same sentence? sarcasm detected
-
jonasw
indeed
-
jonasw
debian oldstable it is!
-
Holger
Yeah I built some of these things myself on check.messaging.one.
-
Holger
Debain oldstable too.
-
jonasw
Holger, do you happen to have a recipe of some kind for that?
-
jonasw
I’m trying to devise a dockerfile I can then throw at iteam
-
Holger
You need an older OpenSSL anyway for the SSLv2 checking.
-
jonasw
hm, maybe I should just use the libssl from testssl.sh?
-
Holger
I don't have proper docs sorry, but if you're stumbling over specific issues I can try to recall how I solved them.
-
jonasw
nothing out of the ordinary yet
-
jonasw
except that developing these things with docker is annoying
-
Holger
I also have various xmppoke backend/frontend fixes. But just a big diff, not individual commits, yay.
-
jonasw
:/
-
jonasw
could you share these eventually?
-
Holger
I'm sorry. I was annoyed and wanted to get this set up quickly.
-
Holger
Yes sure.
-
jonasw
I understand :)
-
Holger
I used OpenSSL 1.0.2k as that's the most-recent version with v2 support.
-
Holger
Needs "./config enable-ssl2 ...".
-
Zash
I wonder if you can get away with just sending a raw SSL v2/v3 handshake and look for success/fail in the response, instead of having full support for it in OpenSSL
-
Holger
Probably.
-
jonasw
I’m now giving it a shot with the OpenSSL build used by testssl.sh
-
jonasw
which is 1.0.2k with some patches
-
Holger
Ah.
-
jonasw
doing the one thing one should probably never do with that piece of software: make insatll.
-
Holger
Ah the backend diff is not that bad actually: https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke.diff.txt
-
jonasw
indeed
-
Holger
The frontend diff is :-/
-
Holger
https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke-frontend.diff.txt
-
Holger
... because there's bug fixes hidden between all those cosmetic changes.
-
zinid
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/meme/images/1/1d/Yt655563971_a663674241_z.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150712012656
-
Holger
Haha.
-
zinid
me when I see web thing
-
marc
Ge0rG, that's my vision of user invitation on mobile devices: https://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xmpp-invite-conversations.webm
-
marc
Providing a username is optional, of course
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: there, easy onboarding
-
SamWhited
jonasw: I figured out what I was looking at earlier when I thought the columns were wrong… in the other version of the document I had open it wasn't an old one, I was just scrolled down to the color pallete tests and they have the wrong number of fields
-
Ge0rG
marc: why do you need to enter two names?
-
marc
Ge0rG, username is optional (required in this setup) and predefines the username of the JID
-
marc
Ge0rG, your name = name of the inviter
-
Ge0rG
marc: you don't need any names to create an invitation
-
marc
Ge0rG, sure, both are optional
-
marc
or not even possible to be set, depends on your configuration
-
Flow
And ideally the your name field is pre-filled with possibly existing vcard information
-
marc
Flow, exactly!
-
marc
Ge0rG, in my current ejabberd setup, inviter name and username are configured as "requried"
-
marc
that's why they need to be filled out
-
marc
the inviter name is also used for the roster item
-
Ge0rG
marc: too many things to do....
-
Ge0rG
Get the inviter name from the vCard and let the invitee specify their own name
-
marc
Ge0rG, once again, that's configurable
-
marc
you don't even see the input fields if you configure your server in that way
-
Flow
but pre fill the roster entry name on the invitee's UI with the possibly provided inviter name
-
Flow
marc: good job so far
-
marc
Ge0rG, if you click "invite contact" you immediatley get the QR code
-
marc
Ge0rG, that's just because I configured the server in that way...
-
marc
Flow, thanks!
-
Flow
what is the rationale for the "benutername"?
-
Flow
what is the incentive for me to enter it?
-
marc
Flow, you have the choice to predefine the JID
-
Flow
predefine the JID?
-
marc
you can set the username part of the new JID
-
Flow
ahh ok, I'd eventually switch the order of fields
-
marc
If Benutername = "marc", the JID of the new created account is marc@<server>
-
marc
Flow, yes
-
Ge0rG
I would leave that to the invitee
-
marc
Ge0rG, you can configure it ;)
-
marc
Flow, just a proof of concept
-
Flow
sure
-
marc
But a working one :)
-
Zash
Beware those
-
marc
But UI is not perfect and there are some corner-case bugs
-
Zash
I made a proof of concept once. Now everyone uses it as if it was production ready!
-
marc
Sure, that's why I didn't publish the code yet :D
-
marc
Ge0rG, you're not really convinced, hm? :D
-
Ge0rG
marc: you are doing a good job, and it's important to do. I'm just a hardcore perfectionist.
-
Zash
Getting the right level of feedback is Hard
-
Ge0rG
marc: do you need help wiring the XEP?
-
Ge0rG
I'm sometimes a bit blunt with my feedback, sorry
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Zash
The trick, according to some blag I saw once, is to make your thing look about as finished as it is
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marc
Ge0rG, good, I'm a perfectionist too :D
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marc
Ge0rG, I have a XEP version with the protocol flow and some references but far away from "ready-to-submit"
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marc
I'll probably push it on my Git repo in a couple of days
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Zash
marc: That sounds like "ready-to-submit" to me
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marc
Zash, not for a perfectionist :>