XSF Discussion - 2017-12-15

00:02:32 Alex has left
00:11:04 uc has joined
00:15:42 pep. Ge0rG, can you point me to a thread for PARS? (on standards?)
00:16:36 uc has joined
00:24:51 sonny has left
00:24:54 sonny has joined
00:26:42 marc has left
00:27:56 uc has joined
00:36:40 ralphm has left
00:36:44 ralphm has joined
00:45:10 uc has joined
00:55:17 uc has joined
00:58:57 pep. has left
01:00:42 uc has joined
01:01:03 Syndace has left
01:01:07 Syndace has joined
01:14:23 arc has left
01:14:24 arc has joined
01:20:43 Syndace has left
01:20:46 Syndace has joined
01:21:40 @Alacer has joined
01:28:53 jjrh has left
01:44:40 Alex has joined
01:48:33 nyco has left
01:49:07 Alex has left
01:54:07 moparisthebest has joined
02:05:16 daniel has left
02:05:17 daniel has joined
02:05:30 lumi has joined
02:12:01 daniel has left
02:12:07 daniel has joined
02:17:21 daniel has left
02:28:03 jjrh has left
02:33:58 Guus has left
02:54:12 moparisthebest has joined
03:25:50 SamWhited has left
03:25:53 SamWhited has joined
03:33:51 Alex has left
03:43:50 matlag has left
03:49:43 daniel has joined
03:55:13 daniel has left
03:56:57 daniel has joined
04:02:27 daniel has left
04:31:58 jmpman has left
04:51:08 daniel has joined
04:52:26 lskdjf has joined
04:54:12 jmpman has joined
04:56:39 daniel has left
05:16:56 moparisthebest has left
05:38:32 matlag has left
05:39:17 moparisthebest has joined
05:44:37 daniel has joined
05:50:08 daniel has left
05:51:39 daniel has joined
05:52:51 moparisthebest has joined
05:57:54 moparisthebest has left
05:58:59 la|r|ma has left
06:03:40 nyco has left
06:04:40 moparisthebest has joined
06:12:04 moparisthebest has joined
06:12:31 arc has left
06:12:32 arc has joined
06:12:48 daniel has left
06:13:07 daniel has joined
06:18:41 daniel has left
06:18:56 moparisthebest has joined
06:20:14 la|r|ma has joined
06:25:50 daniel has joined
06:31:20 daniel has left
06:31:41 zinid has left
06:31:47 goffi has joined
06:33:37 tux has joined
06:33:39 tux has joined
06:37:49 Guus has left
06:39:41 nyco has left
06:40:27 daniel has joined
06:41:54 moparisthebest has joined
06:42:54 xnyhps has joined
06:43:39 moparisthebest has joined
06:45:59 daniel has left
06:52:11 ralphm has joined
06:54:32 ralphm has joined
07:12:11 nyco has left
07:17:07 tux has left
07:17:11 tux has joined
07:29:17 zinid has left
07:37:50 @Alacer has left
07:46:07 daniel has joined
07:48:26 goffi has left
07:52:09 nyco has left
07:54:49 @Alacer has joined
07:55:38 ralphm has joined
07:56:18 daniel has left
07:56:22 daniel has joined
07:57:42 goffi has joined
07:58:15 daniel has left
07:58:20 daniel has joined
08:01:55 jmpman has joined
08:03:22 jmpman has joined
08:09:10 daniel has left
08:09:12 daniel has joined
08:11:05 nyco has left
08:11:54 Ge0rG It's in the June 2016 archive I think, will look up from PC later
08:16:12 jonasw LMSTFY
08:17:59 jonasw pep., https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2016-June/031150.html https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-April/032599.html https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-May/032616.html (if you get a chance, Ge0rG, please confirm that this is the thread you meant to link)
08:18:08 jonasw (those are three links, but it’s the same thread, mailman archive is stupid)
08:18:11 jubalh has joined
08:19:09 Ge0rG jonasw: thanks, those are exactly the right links
08:19:13 jonasw Ge0rG, yw
08:23:20 daniel has left
08:23:28 marc has joined
08:29:27 nyco has left
08:30:29 @Alacer has left
08:36:43 Holger has left
08:39:16 sonny has left
08:39:20 sonny has joined
08:41:50 ralphm has joined
08:44:33 jubalh has left
08:46:08 daniel has joined
08:57:15 ralphm has joined
09:02:18 ralphm has left
09:11:36 marc There was some guy who proposed a protocol to access SMS via XMPP from multiple clients. What happend with this protocol/idea?
09:12:48 Ge0rG marc: are you talking about https://jmp.chat/ or moparisthebest' self-echo component?
09:12:59 Ge0rG https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self
09:13:03 marc Ge0rG, probably the self-echo stuff
09:13:18 marc GitHub not reachable... fuck ... :D
09:13:44 Zash Allow me to point and laugh
09:23:40 jmpman has joined
09:29:47 efrit has left
09:31:51 tux has left
09:31:53 tux has joined
09:32:41 jmpman has joined
09:35:32 jubalh has joined
09:44:25 jcbrand has joined
09:47:52 Kev has joined
09:59:05 @Alacer has joined
10:00:47 marc Ge0rG, do we need to return the TOKEN (ad-hoc command)?
10:01:46 marc Could be used as manual fallback but apart from that I don't know a good reason to return it
10:02:06 Ge0rG marc: we MUST return an xmpp: URI and we MAY return a web URI
10:02:18 Zash has left
10:02:31 marc Ge0rG, yes, I know but this wasn't the question :P
10:03:28 Ge0rG marc: my answer was supposed to be comprehensive, so we should not return anything beyond that
10:05:44 Ge0rG marc: one could think about adding a description text, token validity info, onboarding information etc.; but I think a minimal protocol is beneficial
10:06:10 marc Ge0rG, well I already have defined a token expiration field :)
10:07:23 Ge0rG marc: I think that URI and URL are not the right names, BTW.
10:07:48 marc Ge0rG, I'm open for suggestions :)
10:09:35 Ge0rG marc: I'd go with `uri` for the xmpp: link, but something like `landingpage` or `web` for the https
10:10:30 marc yeah, but it should contain 'url' I think
10:10:41 marc something like landing_url
10:10:45 marc maybe...
10:10:56 jonasw please no underscores in XML
10:11:05 Ge0rG marc: after thinking about it, it's okay to return the validity to the inviter. Their client could create an i18ned message to share, like "Hi, I would like to invite you to chat with me under <https://...>. This link will expire in 2 weeks."
10:11:22 Ge0rG marc: http://ajaxian.com/archives/uri-vs-url-whats-the-difference
10:11:56 marc Ge0rG, I'm glad to hear this ;)
10:12:34 marc Ge0rG, I know the difference between URI and URL
10:12:39 marc Ge0rG, What's your point? :D
10:12:42 jonasw Ge0rG, do you find it ironic that your link has UTF-8 mojibake?
10:12:58 jonasw > depending on the clientâ€™s capabilities
10:13:06 Ge0rG marc: my point is that by using "uri" and "url" in the response, you imply they are different representations of the same thing, whereas they are different things, more or less.
10:13:25 Ge0rG jonasw: yes. Sorry.
10:13:40 Kev has left
10:15:09 marc Ge0rG, yes, that's correct so we'll change this. But 'landing_url' or 'invitation_url' are okay in my opinion
10:15:35 Ge0rG marc: "jonasw> please no underscores in XML"
10:16:08 marc oh, missed that :D
10:16:15 marc What's the reason?
10:16:23 jonasw it’s ugly
10:16:30 jonasw we don’t do it in XMPP so far, AFAIK
10:16:41 Ge0rG jonasw: would you be ok with `landing-url`?
10:16:41 jonasw (the only exception possibly features for PubSub)
10:16:44 jonasw sure
10:16:55 marc Just for reasons of appearance?
10:17:01 jonasw marc, yes :)
10:17:16 marc Ok, I like this :D
10:19:14 SouL landingUrl
10:19:59 zinid CamelCase
10:20:08 Ge0rG <x xmlns='jabber:x:data' type='result'> <title>Invitation</title> <reported> <field var='uri' label='Invitation link'/> <field var='landing-url' label='Landing Page'/> <field var='expire' label='Expiration Time'/> </reported> <item> <field var='uri'><value>xmpp:georg@yax.im?add;preauth=aG5axoo8iagahS9o;ibr</value></field> <field var='landing-url'><value>https://yax.im/i/#georg@yax.im?add;preauth=aG5axoo8iagahS9o;ibr</value></field> <field var='expire'><value>2017-12-17T02:56:15Z</value></field> </item> </x>
10:20:20 Ge0rG marc: like this?
10:20:23 jonasw aaaa
10:20:25 jonasw data tables
10:20:28 jonasw I’m afraid of data tables
10:20:50 marc Ge0rG, looks similar to my XEP yes :D
10:21:00 marc But I don't use reported
10:21:17 jonasw I’m afraid (literally) that Ge0rG is right in his use of reported.
10:21:19 marc I think that's only necessary if you have multiple <item> elements
10:21:38 jonasw marc, using a form would be the wrong semantic here.
10:21:51 zinid and I don't have reported support in ejabberd
10:21:52 zinid great
10:22:01 marc has joined
10:22:02 marc :D
10:22:14 jonasw zinid, I know that feel
10:22:17 Ge0rG I've combined an example from ad-hoc with what marc wrote in his XEP.
10:22:20 andrey.g has joined
10:22:22 jonasw damn
10:22:28 jonasw I was hoping that Ad-Hoc might forbid that
10:22:45 marc :D
10:22:52 marc <iq type='result' to='romeo@example.com' from='example.com' id='exec2'> <command xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/commands' sessionid='config:20020923T213616Z-700' node='invite' status='completed'> <x xmlns='jabber:x:data' type='result'> <item> <field var='uri'> <value>xmpp:example.com?register;invite-token=TOKEN</value> </field> <field var='landing-url'> <value>https://example.com/invite/#TOKEN</value> </field> <field var='expire'> <value>2017-11-06T02:56:15Z</value> </field> </item> </x> </command> </iq>
10:23:01 marc Ignore the XMPP URI...
10:23:34 jonasw let me delve into the horros and re-read XEP-0004 on the reported thing
10:24:42 Holger > (the only exception possibly features for PubSub) IIRC we use _ and - inconsistently there \o/
10:25:01 lskdjf has joined
10:25:14 marc Time to update the XEP then ;)
10:25:58 jonasw it isn’t clear to me whether <reported/> is required when type='result' is used
10:26:07 jonasw there is no normative language regarding that afaict
10:27:22 daniel has left
10:27:39 daniel has joined
10:28:55 mathieui btw, xmpp.net: “ It's too busy, try again later. ”
10:29:22 jonasw again?
10:29:46 jonasw I need to fix that issue which makes some domains break the queue
10:29:58 jonasw but I was hoping not having to touch PHP
10:30:59 SouL underscores for the win!
10:31:02 moparisthebest marc: I also hacked it into my conversations fork and have been using it for a month or so, works great
10:31:37 marc moparisthebest, how do you send SMS? How do you select the recipient?
10:31:45 moparisthebest The hard part has been designing a plugin API but I'm almost done with that too
10:31:59 moparisthebest The local part of the jid
10:32:21 marc moparisthebest, so you just add a contact to the roster?
10:33:54 moparisthebest marc: I don't really bother with that yet
10:33:57 moparisthebest https://github.com/moparisthebest/Conversations/tree/sms
10:34:59 moparisthebest That's the hacky code, expect conversations pr and separate stand alone plugin in a few days
10:35:11 marc moparisthebest, hehe nice :)
10:53:21 moparisthebest marc: if you're much of an Android dev I want MMS with attachments to convert to/from http upload too but MMS on Android looks like a nightmare...
10:53:40 jonasw s/MMS/anything/
10:53:45 jonasw hm, that was unfortunate
10:53:54 jonasw s/MMS/anything/;s/anything/MMS/ should fix it
10:54:49 moparisthebest SMS isn't bad, but yes this is all way worse than plain Java
10:55:09 jonasw and plain java is already bad ;-)
10:55:20 SouL What did you say!?
10:55:48 marc moparisthebest, I'm not really an Android dev :D
10:57:21 moparisthebest jonasw: well it's no rust, but at least it's not erlang :)
10:57:27 marc moparisthebest, what happens if you have two Conversations clients with your plugin? :)
10:57:36 moparisthebest marc: badness
10:57:43 marc :D
10:57:52 moparisthebest Double sms I'd guess
10:57:53 jonasw moparisthebest, actually, I need to look into erlang.
10:58:08 jonasw that video is convincing
10:58:10 marc I like Erlang somehow :)
10:58:33 SouL jonasw, do you have a link for it? I forgot to bookmark it
10:58:43 moparisthebest Erlang http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/nosql/
10:58:45 jonasw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIjfIjssLE
10:58:46 jonasw there you go
10:58:55 marc moparisthebest, do you have plans to fix this or support it?
10:59:23 moparisthebest marc: which
10:59:59 marc moparisthebest, multiple SMS-capable devices
11:02:42 moparisthebest marc: each could pick it's own different echo component and then it'd all work fine
11:02:54 moparisthebest And yes the plugin will support that
11:03:11 Kev has joined
11:03:33 marc moparisthebest, but isn't the idea to allow sending SMS from desktop-clients, for example?
11:03:48 moparisthebest Oh wait marc so all connected xmpp clients can send SMS
11:04:00 moparisthebest Only the one conversations needs the plugin
11:04:11 moparisthebest Others need nothing new or special
11:04:19 moparisthebest That all works today
11:04:21 marc Sure but what if I have two smartphones
11:04:28 marc Or two SIM cards?
11:04:55 moparisthebest That when you'd need a seperate echo domain for each
11:05:33 moparisthebest Otherwise you don't know what number to send with
11:06:02 marc moparisthebest, okay, can you somehow select which echo domain to be used?
11:06:14 moparisthebest Yes
11:06:30 moparisthebest Not in the hacky version with no options
11:06:40 moparisthebest Plugin version will support this
11:06:48 marc moparisthebest, sounds promising :)
11:07:20 marc moparisthebest, But selection of the SMS-device will need support in other clients as well, right?
11:07:30 moparisthebest Now I don't have a phone with 2 Sim cards so that will be harder
11:07:34 moparisthebest No
11:07:51 moparisthebest All other clients see is a regular xmpp chat
11:08:05 jjrh has left
11:08:26 marc moparisthebest, how do you decide the SIM card/device? phonenumber@echo-sim1 and phonenumber@echo-sim2 ?
11:08:30 moparisthebest The phone knows anything sent to echo.burtrum.org or whatever goes out via SMS
11:17:32 daniel has left
11:19:24 Kev has left
11:21:20 debacle has joined
11:21:24 @Alacer has left
11:21:56 Guus Hi all - I'm attempting to arrange for a hotel discount for the upcoming Summit and Fosdem in Brussels (February 1st - 4th). To get some kind of headcount, it'd be good if you could sign up on the wiki page if you're planning to be there: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22
11:22:35 daniel has left
11:23:43 jjrh has left
11:23:54 jjrh has left
11:25:13 tux has joined
11:25:14 jjrh has left
11:26:51 Kev has left
11:26:58 daniel has left
11:27:42 Ge0rG moparisthebest> All other clients see is a regular xmpp chat Why is this message duplicated in my client? Meh.
11:28:47 zinid I constantly receive duplicates
11:29:12 Ge0rG zinid: it should be filtered away by yaxim's deduplicator.
11:30:14 @Alacer has joined
11:30:42 zinid yeah, heuristics
11:31:01 Ge0rG Unfortunately, my client doesn't have a log going back 20mins, and my server doesn't log outgoing c2s stanzas. Meh.
11:31:04 jcbrand has left
11:31:36 lumi has joined
11:32:01 Ge0rG zinid: MUC message (ID) rewriting makes heuristics a required feature.
11:32:10 zinid Ge0rG, I know
11:33:52 jonasw Ge0rG, why do you see different peoples messages twice though?
11:34:14 Ge0rG Ok, now this is just getting more and more weird. prosody only delivered that message ID once to my yaxim.
11:34:25 Ge0rG jonasw: it's only a single message from a single person duplicated.
11:34:49 Ge0rG Maybe my MSN just rejoined the MUC, but I should get the message as part of history then.
11:37:49 Ge0rG Okay, there was a 0198 reconnect just in that moment.
11:38:00 Ge0rG Something fishy is going on, and I don't know what it is.
11:39:27 Ge0rG Will increase logcat buffer to 16M now.
11:40:00 jjrh has left
11:40:56 jjrh has left
11:40:58 jcbrand has joined
11:47:38 pep. jonasw, Ge0rG, thanks for the links! (PARS)
11:47:41 zinid Ge0rG, does yaxim dump XML traffic in logcat?
11:48:23 Ge0rG zinid: if you enable it, yes.
11:48:28 zinid Ge0rG, nice
11:49:37 sezuan has joined
11:50:05 jonasw sounds like an off-by-one in the stream management handling
11:50:33 jonasw reminds me of early aioxmpp's reconnect loops when a broken stanza was received. broken stanza -> exception -> disconnect stream -> resume stream management -> receive same broken stanza
11:51:19 Ge0rG jonasw: yeah, well possible. But I know for sure that I've fixed the off-by-ones in yaxim. It was a long and complex process
11:51:42 Ge0rG jonasw: if you close the stream, you are not allowed to resume.
11:51:45 @Alacer has left
11:52:06 jonasw Ge0rG, I’m not sure that the stream was closed cleanly. it’s been a while.
12:00:28 Tobias has joined
12:00:34 @Alacer has joined
12:06:58 tux has left
12:09:38 @Alacer has left
12:12:30 arc has left
12:12:35 arc has joined
12:13:37 marc Ge0rG, are you fine with 'invite' and 'create-account' ad-hoc command names?
12:14:02 Ge0rG marc: yeah
12:14:19 jonasw what are the semantics of those commands again?
12:14:43 marc jonasw, invite a user, create an account (optinal with predefined username) :)
12:14:53 jonasw create an account we already have an adhoc for that
12:14:57 Ge0rG jonasw: the former will create a PARS link with an "ibr" tag.
12:15:05 marc latter is for admins or other privileged users
12:15:08 Ge0rG jonasw: do we?
12:15:34 Ge0rG jonasw: the goal is for the admin to define the user name, and then the user can use IBR to specify their password.
12:16:03 marc Ge0rG, jonasw I tink we had this exact same disucussion a couple of days ago :D
12:16:13 jonasw https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0133.html#add-user
12:16:17 jonasw Ge0rG, ah okay
12:16:23 jonasw ahh, so it’s invite minus PARS
12:16:29 marc I think the wording was exactly the same :D
12:16:54 SamWhited has left
12:17:15 Ge0rG jonasw: no, it's a "I define a username and send a link" thing
12:17:24 Ge0rG jonasw: so it's rather PARS-for-accounts
12:17:41 Ge0rG jonasw: and it implies PARS between inviter and invitee
12:18:07 jonasw Ge0rG, how is that different from "invite minus PARS"?
12:18:12 jonasw no wait
12:18:20 jonasw so create-account allows for IBR registration, but also PARS?
12:18:24 jonasw what’s the difference to invite then?
12:19:01 marc invite gives you the possiblity to create an account or just make server-side PARS
12:19:13 marc account-creation creates an account on the server
12:19:18 jonasw and create-account forces account creation?
12:19:25 marc yes
12:19:29 jonasw I see
12:19:59 marc jonasw, any objections so far? :)
12:20:03 jonasw make sure you make that distinction clear in the document and provide use cases which support that distinction
12:20:58 Ge0rG jonasw: create-account is for admins who want to enroll friends. invite is for users of (semi)public servers.
12:21:16 Ge0rG jonasw: a server admin can use invite if they don't want to pre-define the account name
12:21:19 jonasw Ge0rG, I don’t see why I wouldn’t use invite as an admin, too?
12:21:35 Ge0rG jonasw: however, there is no guarantee that an invite will lead to account creation
12:21:47 Ge0rG jonasw: if the user already has an account, invite will merely fall-back to PARS
12:21:53 jonasw win
12:21:57 jonasw why wouldn’t I want that?
12:22:15 Ge0rG jonasw: what?
12:22:44 Ge0rG Sigh. Something just happened, and now my yaxim got reset.
12:23:01 Ge0rG like, all-data-lost-app-reset.
12:23:05 jonasw why would I want force people to create an account?
12:23:14 jonasw if they already have one?
12:23:24 jonasw especially if they still could create an account with 'invite' if they wanted to
12:23:33 jonasw create-account seems to have only limitations in my eyes
12:23:44 jonasw and I’m failing to see the use-case for that
12:23:45 marc jonasw, if you want to ensure that set of users is on your server, for example if you don't use E2EE :D
12:24:07 Ge0rG jonasw: it's because marc insists that you want to have all your friends on your server.
12:24:13 jonasw I see
12:24:20 jonasw I don’t follow that argument, but okay
12:24:37 jonasw I don’t care as long as both works and I don’t have to use create-account :)
12:25:05 Ge0rG jonasw: I see create-account as a feature I can use to easily onboard my grand-aunt.
12:25:17 jonasw ~~why don’t use invite for that?~~ ✎
12:25:22 jonasw why not use invite for that? ✏
12:25:31 jonasw ah, because they have to choose an account name
12:25:34 Ge0rG right
12:25:47 jonasw but then again, clients could offer default names based on the screenname, as was discussed earlier here, IIRC
12:26:21 Ge0rG has left
12:26:29 marc Maybe you have a company or other organization where you have to enforce that all memebers are on a "special" server. For privacy reasons, for example.
12:26:43 Ge0rG marc: good point.
12:26:49 jonasw indeed
12:26:50 Ge0rG marc: mention it in the rationale / user-story
12:26:52 jonasw yes
12:26:52 marc Ge0rG, thanks!
12:26:56 Ge0rG the XSF loves corporate rollouts
12:26:57 jonasw that’s the kind of example I was looking for :)
12:27:09 Ge0rG has left
12:27:11 marc Okay, good that we agree on that :) I'm happy now
12:27:14 jonasw (even though corporate onboarding will probably work very different)
12:27:17 Ge0rG has left
12:27:20 jjrh has left
12:27:27 Ge0rG has left
12:32:00 la|r|ma has joined
12:32:08 jjrh has left
12:38:44 jjrh has left
12:43:58 andrey.g has left
12:46:47 sonny has left
12:48:20 sonny has joined
12:51:45 ralphm has left
12:53:18 lumi has joined
12:53:23 jjrh has left
12:53:28 sonny has joined
12:55:04 sonny has joined
12:56:56 ralphm has joined
12:57:16 marc jonasw, yes, but this depends of how big the "organization" is
12:57:50 Ge0rG has joined
12:58:18 marc s/of/on
12:58:20 jonasw normally there would be some kind of single-sign-on in place and the xmppd may not even have privilegues to create an account there. but sure, there may be use-cases.
13:08:52 Tobias has joined
13:10:02 daniel has left
13:12:13 la|r|ma has joined
13:12:56 Ge0rG has joined
13:15:28 jjrh has left
13:17:57 Alex has joined
13:18:03 ralphm has joined
13:19:08 nyco has left
13:20:45 daniel has left
13:21:14 moparisthebest Ge0rG, don't know why it was duplicated, at the time I only had conversations running so single client even
13:22:52 Ge0rG moparisthebest: looks like it was a yaxim bug, but we'll never find out. Sorry for bothering you.
13:23:10 zinid but people already have accounts (twitter, google), why do you want to register them on your server?
13:23:18 moparisthebest Ge0rG, no bother, conversations has a method for guessing if a message is the same not sure if you can copy it
13:23:27 zinid why we cannot use oauth, like all others do?
13:28:29 marc zinid, oauth is about authorization, you still need to create an account, right?
13:29:08 zinid marc, right
13:30:28 marc zinid, what's you point regarding the account creation / user invitation proposal then?
13:30:32 Ge0rG has joined
13:30:53 zinid marc, you need no account creation
13:31:03 zinid you can create it on the fly at first login
13:31:30 marc zinid, you're talking about public servers, right?
13:31:44 zinid marc, I would use it on my private server too, why not?
13:32:19 marc zinid, okay, I have a private server and want somebody to join it
13:32:35 marc zinid, what's your protocol flow then?
13:32:43 zinid I'm not talking about invitation
13:32:51 zinid this is a separate subject
13:32:55 Ge0rG Step 1: troll everyone Step 2: ??? Step 3: PROFIT!
13:33:25 SouL Hahaha
13:33:44 zinid Ge0rG, wow, oauth is trolling now?
13:33:47 marc zinid, but we were talking about invitation
13:34:15 zinid > why would I want force people to create an account? I replied to this ^^^
13:34:59 Ge0rG zinid: with oauth, you can connect to an existing account. but you can't xmpp-connect to a service not offering xmpp
13:35:20 zinid what?
13:35:20 Zash has left
13:35:32 Ge0rG zinid: you could create an xmpp account by logging in with an oauth provider and using that provider as "identity verification"
13:35:45 zinid so what?
13:35:55 Ge0rG zinid: you can't login to twitter with an xmpp client
13:36:02 zinid I can
13:36:09 zinid for user this will be transparent
13:36:35 zinid you choose an xmpp server, provides oauth provider and it's done
13:37:17 Ge0rG zinid: so you will still create an xmpp account?
13:37:29 zinid sure
13:37:46 zinid in an automatic way
13:38:41 zinid the point is that it's pain in ass to keep all accounts with passwords for a user
13:39:33 Ge0rG zinid: so instead of a password, you use an oauth token issued by Faceoogle?
13:39:41 zinid yes
13:39:53 zinid or how it's called, I don't remember details
13:40:35 zinid you can fetch address book and send invites by the way
13:54:19 zinid has left
13:55:05 zinid has left
13:56:01 zinid has left
13:56:13 zinid has left
13:57:09 Tobias has joined
13:58:46 Zash has left
13:59:48 zinid has joined
13:59:52 jcbrand has left
14:00:55 lumi has joined
14:05:58 @Alacer has joined
14:06:26 ralphm has joined
14:10:34 Holger has left
14:11:25 jcbrand has joined
14:13:29 daniel has left
14:14:51 mimi89999 has joined
14:15:16 Tobias has joined
14:15:53 uc has left
14:16:13 uc has joined
14:16:50 jjrh has left
14:17:02 Martin has joined
14:17:23 Martin has left
14:17:27 Holger has left
14:19:38 Tobias has joined
14:20:30 andrey.g has joined
14:20:34 daniel has left
14:21:34 andrey.g has joined
14:27:34 ralphm has left
14:30:19 andrey.g has joined
14:31:34 mimi89999 has joined
14:35:19 sezuan has left
14:35:56 daniel has left
14:45:13 Holger has left
14:47:50 efrit has joined
14:50:34 @Alacer has left
14:50:53 lovetox has joined
14:50:56 @Alacer has joined
14:56:25 SamWhited has joined
14:57:39 ralphm has joined
15:04:51 @Alacer has left
15:12:03 jubalh has left
15:16:43 jubalh has joined
15:21:05 ralphm has joined
15:22:14 daniel has left
15:24:16 daniel has left
15:25:42 jubalh has left
15:27:27 ralphm has joined
15:27:44 daniel has left
15:27:57 nyco has left
15:28:49 @Alacer has joined
15:30:44 daniel has left
15:32:13 daniel has left
15:32:16 mimi89999 has joined
15:32:19 jcbrand has left
15:32:28 jcbrand has joined
15:32:42 jjrh has left
15:33:56 Holger has left
15:35:10 daniel has left
15:37:52 Ge0rG has left
15:40:23 ralphm has left
15:42:12 Tobias has left
15:43:57 Tobias has joined
15:47:55 daniel has left
15:49:00 daniel has left
15:51:20 daniel has left
15:51:47 jjrh has left
15:52:31 @Alacer has left
15:56:03 jubalh has left
16:04:46 jjrh has left
16:06:23 zinid has left
16:07:34 ralphm has joined
16:07:48 tux has joined
16:08:18 Ge0rG has left
16:08:40 jubalh has joined
16:10:46 jjrh has left
16:12:08 Steve Kille has left
16:12:23 Steve Kille has left
16:15:48 jjrh has left
16:17:03 Steve Kille has joined
16:18:01 Tobias has joined
16:18:16 Tobias has joined
16:19:26 Ge0rG has joined
16:24:02 efrit has left
16:25:31 nyco has left
16:25:58 mathieui https://help.aol.com/articles/aim-discontinued RIP.
16:28:10 pep. What a shame
16:28:27 Ge0rG has left
16:28:30 edhelas time to replace it with another protocol
16:29:55 mathieui there’s nothing to replace
16:30:02 mathieui nobody was using it
16:30:44 pep. "Can I still use AIM between now and December 15?", *now* being Dec 11th.
16:30:45 Ge0rG more users than XMPP? :P
16:31:19 Ge0rG But ICQ is still running?
16:32:20 Steve Kille has left
16:32:57 Tobias has joined
16:33:57 Ge0rG has left
16:34:44 matlag has left
16:34:52 jjrh has left
16:34:53 Ge0rG has left
16:36:53 mimi89999 has joined
16:40:16 Ge0rG has joined
16:42:19 marc has left
16:46:24 Kev has joined
16:47:32 ThurahT by now I've helped ~15 people to convert to xmpp. And I never even had AIM.. : )
16:50:37 Ge0rG has joined
16:50:37 Ge0rG ThurahT: are they all on jabber.org? :D
16:50:51 ThurahT yeah, I wanted only the best for them
16:51:02 SamWhited not sure if…
16:51:09 ThurahT : )
16:51:32 Ge0rG smells sarcasm
16:51:33 marc has left
16:52:12 jonasw when the news broke that AIM was about to be discontinued, I suggested to set up an XMPP domain which focuses on easy conversion from AIM
16:52:53 jonasw nobody had the time though :)
16:53:05 Ge0rG jonasw: such an irony
16:53:16 ThurahT I had a few who might have needed that. But eventually they caught on setting servers up.
16:56:36 daniel has left
16:57:04 Alex has left
16:57:07 jjrh has left
16:57:29 jjrh has left
17:02:50 Kev has left
17:03:57 @Alacer has joined
17:04:40 sonny has left
17:04:43 sonny has joined
17:09:05 Alex has joined
17:09:58 nyco has left
17:11:10 Alex has left
17:13:36 Zash has left
17:14:31 Ge0rG has joined
17:17:22 @Alacer has left
17:18:44 lskdjf has left
17:20:37 uc has left
17:20:51 uc has joined
17:21:18 jjrh has left
17:21:29 ralphm has left
17:22:31 Holger has left
17:27:02 jubalh has left
17:27:04 jubalh has joined
17:28:39 Kev has left
17:30:26 nyco has left
17:34:55 @Alacer has joined
17:40:05 Kev has left
17:40:16 Ge0rG has joined
17:42:04 jubalh has left
17:43:39 jjrh has left
17:45:14 jjrh has left
17:45:44 debacle has joined
17:47:40 jjrh has left
17:50:37 jjrh has left
17:52:37 jjrh has left
17:54:11 jjrh has left
17:54:48 jjrh has left
17:55:37 jjrh has left
17:57:53 ralphm has joined
18:00:51 ralphm has joined
18:01:48 jjrh has left
18:03:43 jjrh has left
18:06:19 jjrh has left
18:06:33 jjrh has left
18:07:27 jjrh has left
18:09:46 Holger has left
18:09:49 ralphm has left
18:10:19 nyco has left
18:15:29 ralphm has joined
18:25:07 ralphm has left
18:28:05 daniel has left
18:33:21 daniel has left
18:34:10 sonny has joined
18:34:13 sonny has joined
18:44:25 lskdjf has left
18:46:34 ralphm has joined
18:53:44 stefandxm has left
18:54:55 pep. has joined
18:56:32 ralphm has left
18:56:38 ralphm has joined
18:58:05 lumi has joined
19:02:08 Ge0rG has left
19:05:10 ralphm has joined
19:05:15 ralphm has joined
19:07:09 ralphm has left
19:07:15 ralphm has joined
19:09:39 Ge0rG has left
19:10:44 ralphm has left
19:10:50 ralphm has joined
19:13:24 daniel has left
19:14:05 ralphm has left
19:14:10 ralphm has joined
19:15:29 ralphm has left
19:15:34 ralphm has joined
19:18:00 daniel has left
19:20:09 marc has joined
19:27:30 SamWhited has joined
19:32:59 Ge0rG has left
19:33:07 zinid has left
19:34:17 marc has left
19:36:28 jubalh has joined
19:37:35 jubalh has left
19:40:44 daniel has left
19:41:14 stefandxm has joined
19:42:07 ralphm has joined
19:46:13 ralphm has joined
19:47:08 @Alacer has left
19:49:24 jabberatdemo has joined
19:50:59 jabberatdemo has left
19:51:31 @Alacer has joined
19:51:42 Ge0rG has joined
19:58:50 daniel has left
20:02:21 zinid jonasw, don't be sad, that was pointless anyway, everyone is "converted" into whatsapp 🙂
20:07:54 Holger has left
20:13:29 moparisthebest has left
20:23:30 jubalh has joined
20:26:04 @Alacer has left
20:26:43 jubalh has left
20:26:48 @Alacer has joined
20:31:48 jonasw has left
20:31:48 jonasw has joined
20:32:03 jcbrand has left
20:32:05 Ge0rG has left
20:33:01 pep. has left
20:33:13 jjrh has left
20:37:20 Guus has left
20:38:19 pep. has left
20:38:51 daniel has left
20:46:47 pep. has left
20:46:55 ralphm has joined
20:47:03 Ge0rG has left
20:47:32 jonasw has left
20:47:32 jonasw has joined
20:48:30 Guus has left
20:50:41 Ge0rG has left
20:52:12 McKael has joined
20:52:49 zinid has left
20:57:08 Ge0rG has left
20:58:27 @Alacer has left
21:01:39 @Alacer has joined
21:04:29 jjrh has left
21:07:11 SouL has left
21:07:11 ralphm has joined
21:08:10 Ge0rG has left
21:10:00 Ge0rG has left
21:16:58 jjrh has left
21:18:00 jubalh has joined
21:18:42 jjrh has left
21:21:00 ralphm has left
21:21:07 ralphm has joined
21:23:42 @Alacer has left
21:23:44 sonny has joined
21:23:47 sonny has joined
21:24:37 Ge0rG has left
21:25:33 jjrh has left
21:27:18 goffi has left
21:27:31 @Alacer has joined
21:27:53 Ge0rG has left
21:30:18 valo has left
21:31:46 valo has joined
21:33:23 goffi has joined
21:38:01 Ge0rG has left
21:39:59 sonny has left
21:40:02 sonny has joined
21:42:43 jjrh has left
21:43:49 jubalh has left
21:45:15 moparisthebest has joined
21:47:50 Ge0rG has left
21:53:09 Ge0rG has left
21:57:42 ralphm has joined
22:00:05 ralphm has joined
22:04:07 Ge0rG has left
22:08:11 Ge0rG has left
22:09:39 @Alacer has left
22:10:25 jubalh has left
22:11:47 bear has left
22:15:59 ralphm has joined
22:16:59 sonny has joined
22:18:03 @Alacer has joined
22:19:26 jubalh has joined
22:20:29 Ge0rG has left
22:30:32 jonasw has left
22:30:32 jonasw has joined
22:31:11 ralphm has joined
22:31:24 Ge0rG has left
22:32:00 pep. has left
22:34:00 SamWhited has left
22:35:35 sonny has joined
22:35:36 Ge0rG has left
22:38:02 Ge0rG has left
22:42:15 ralphm has joined
22:46:13 jubalh has left
22:47:10 lovetox has left
22:50:01 Ge0rG has left
22:53:10 Ge0rG has left
23:04:42 Ge0rG has left
23:07:33 Ge0rG has left
23:07:54 goffi has left
23:14:44 sonny has left
23:14:48 sonny has joined
23:16:07 Ge0rG has left
23:18:25 marc has joined
23:19:24 sonny has left
23:19:26 sonny has joined
23:19:37 sonny has left
23:19:39 sonny has joined
23:20:50 ralphm has left
23:22:47 ralphm has joined
23:26:02 Ge0rG has left
23:27:44 jjrh has left
23:32:08 Ge0rG has left
23:38:02 Ge0rG has left
23:40:04 sonny has left
23:40:06 sonny has joined
23:40:12 sonny has joined
23:40:14 sonny has joined
23:41:51 sonny has left
23:41:54 sonny has joined
23:43:30 sonny has left
23:43:33 sonny has joined
23:43:38 sonny has joined
23:43:41 sonny has joined
23:46:00 sonny has left
23:46:04 sonny has joined
23:46:50 sonny has left
23:46:52 sonny has joined
23:47:13 Ge0rG has left
23:47:25 lumi has left
23:47:32 daniel has left
23:48:58 sonny has left
23:49:01 sonny has joined
23:50:25 sonny has left
23:50:28 sonny has joined
23:52:04 sonny has left
23:52:07 sonny has joined
23:53:10 Ge0rG has left
23:54:31 sonny has left
23:54:35 sonny has joined
23:56:50 sonny has left
23:56:55 sonny has joined
23:57:44 sonny has left
23:57:47 sonny has joined
23:57:48 daniel has left
23:58:31 jjrh has left