XSF Discussion - 2017-12-15


  1. Alex has left

  2. uc has joined

  3. pep.

    Ge0rG, can you point me to a thread for PARS? (on standards?)

  4. uc has joined

  5. sonny has left

  6. sonny has joined

  7. marc has left

  8. uc has joined

  9. ralphm has left

  10. ralphm has joined

  11. uc has joined

  12. uc has joined

  13. pep. has left

  14. uc has joined

  15. Syndace has left

  16. Syndace has joined

  17. arc has left

  18. arc has joined

  19. Syndace has left

  20. Syndace has joined

  21. @Alacer has joined

  22. jjrh has left

  23. Alex has joined

  24. nyco has left

  25. Alex has left

  26. moparisthebest has joined

  27. daniel has left

  28. daniel has joined

  29. lumi has joined

  30. daniel has left

  31. daniel has joined

  32. daniel has left

  33. jjrh has left

  34. Guus has left

  35. moparisthebest has joined

  36. SamWhited has left

  37. SamWhited has joined

  38. Alex has left

  39. matlag has left

  40. daniel has joined

  41. daniel has left

  42. daniel has joined

  43. daniel has left

  44. jmpman has left

  45. daniel has joined

  46. lskdjf has joined

  47. jmpman has joined

  48. daniel has left

  49. moparisthebest has left

  50. matlag has left

  51. moparisthebest has joined

  52. daniel has joined

  53. daniel has left

  54. daniel has joined

  55. moparisthebest has joined

  56. moparisthebest has left

  57. la|r|ma has left

  58. nyco has left

  59. moparisthebest has joined

  60. moparisthebest has joined

  61. arc has left

  62. arc has joined

  63. daniel has left

  64. daniel has joined

  65. daniel has left

  66. moparisthebest has joined

  67. la|r|ma has joined

  68. daniel has joined

  69. daniel has left

  70. zinid has left

  71. goffi has joined

  72. tux has joined

  73. tux has joined

  74. Guus has left

  75. nyco has left

  76. daniel has joined

  77. moparisthebest has joined

  78. xnyhps has joined

  79. moparisthebest has joined

  80. daniel has left

  81. ralphm has joined

  82. ralphm has joined

  83. nyco has left

  84. tux has left

  85. tux has joined

  86. zinid has left

  87. @Alacer has left

  88. daniel has joined

  89. goffi has left

  90. nyco has left

  91. @Alacer has joined

  92. ralphm has joined

  93. daniel has left

  94. daniel has joined

  95. goffi has joined

  96. daniel has left

  97. daniel has joined

  98. jmpman has joined

  99. jmpman has joined

  100. daniel has left

  101. daniel has joined

  102. nyco has left

  103. Ge0rG

    It's in the June 2016 archive I think, will look up from PC later

  104. jonasw

    LMSTFY

  105. jonasw

    pep., https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2016-June/031150.html https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-April/032599.html https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-May/032616.html (if you get a chance, Ge0rG, please confirm that this is the thread you meant to link)

  106. jonasw

    (those are three links, but it’s the same thread, mailman archive is stupid)

  107. jubalh has joined

  108. Ge0rG

    jonasw: thanks, those are exactly the right links

  109. jonasw

    Ge0rG, yw

  110. daniel has left

  111. marc has joined

  112. nyco has left

  113. @Alacer has left

  114. Holger has left

  115. sonny has left

  116. sonny has joined

  117. ralphm has joined

  118. jubalh has left

  119. daniel has joined

  120. ralphm has joined

  121. ralphm has left

  122. marc

    There was some guy who proposed a protocol to access SMS via XMPP from multiple clients. What happend with this protocol/idea?

  123. Ge0rG

    marc: are you talking about https://jmp.chat/ or moparisthebest' self-echo component?

  124. Ge0rG

    https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-echo-self

  125. marc

    Ge0rG, probably the self-echo stuff

  126. marc

    GitHub not reachable... fuck ... :D

  127. Zash

    Allow me to point and laugh

  128. jmpman has joined

  129. efrit has left

  130. tux has left

  131. tux has joined

  132. jmpman has joined

  133. jubalh has joined

  134. jcbrand has joined

  135. Kev has joined

  136. @Alacer has joined

  137. marc

    Ge0rG, do we need to return the TOKEN (ad-hoc command)?

  138. marc

    Could be used as manual fallback but apart from that I don't know a good reason to return it

  139. Ge0rG

    marc: we MUST return an xmpp: URI and we MAY return a web URI

  140. Zash has left

  141. marc

    Ge0rG, yes, I know but this wasn't the question :P

  142. Ge0rG

    marc: my answer was supposed to be comprehensive, so we should not return anything beyond that

  143. Ge0rG

    marc: one could think about adding a description text, token validity info, onboarding information etc.; but I think a minimal protocol is beneficial

  144. marc

    Ge0rG, well I already have defined a token expiration field :)

  145. Ge0rG

    marc: I think that URI and URL are not the right names, BTW.

  146. marc

    Ge0rG, I'm open for suggestions :)

  147. Ge0rG

    marc: I'd go with `uri` for the xmpp: link, but something like `landingpage` or `web` for the https

  148. marc

    yeah, but it should contain 'url' I think

  149. marc

    something like landing_url

  150. marc

    maybe...

  151. jonasw

    please no underscores in XML

  152. Ge0rG

    marc: after thinking about it, it's okay to return the validity to the inviter. Their client could create an i18ned message to share, like "Hi, I would like to invite you to chat with me under <https://...>. This link will expire in 2 weeks."

  153. Ge0rG

    marc: http://ajaxian.com/archives/uri-vs-url-whats-the-difference

  154. marc

    Ge0rG, I'm glad to hear this ;)

  155. marc

    Ge0rG, I know the difference between URI and URL

  156. marc

    Ge0rG, What's your point? :D

  157. jonasw

    Ge0rG, do you find it ironic that your link has UTF-8 mojibake?

  158. jonasw

    > depending on the client’s capabilities

  159. Ge0rG

    marc: my point is that by using "uri" and "url" in the response, you imply they are different representations of the same thing, whereas they are different things, more or less.

  160. Ge0rG

    jonasw: yes. Sorry.

  161. Kev has left

  162. marc

    Ge0rG, yes, that's correct so we'll change this. But 'landing_url' or 'invitation_url' are okay in my opinion

  163. Ge0rG

    marc: "jonasw> please no underscores in XML"

  164. marc

    oh, missed that :D

  165. marc

    What's the reason?

  166. jonasw

    it’s ugly

  167. jonasw

    we don’t do it in XMPP so far, AFAIK

  168. Ge0rG

    jonasw: would you be ok with `landing-url`?

  169. jonasw

    (the only exception possibly features for PubSub)

  170. jonasw

    sure

  171. marc

    Just for reasons of appearance?

  172. jonasw

    marc, yes :)

  173. marc

    Ok, I like this :D

  174. SouL

    landingUrl

  175. zinid

    CamelCase

  176. Ge0rG

    <x xmlns='jabber:x:data' type='result'> <title>Invitation</title> <reported> <field var='uri' label='Invitation link'/> <field var='landing-url' label='Landing Page'/> <field var='expire' label='Expiration Time'/> </reported> <item> <field var='uri'><value>xmpp:georg@yax.im?add;preauth=aG5axoo8iagahS9o;ibr</value></field> <field var='landing-url'><value>https://yax.im/i/#georg@yax.im?add;preauth=aG5axoo8iagahS9o;ibr</value></field> <field var='expire'><value>2017-12-17T02:56:15Z</value></field> </item> </x>

  177. Ge0rG

    marc: like this?

  178. jonasw

    aaaa

  179. jonasw

    data tables

  180. jonasw

    I’m afraid of data tables

  181. marc

    Ge0rG, looks similar to my XEP yes :D

  182. marc

    But I don't use reported

  183. jonasw

    I’m afraid (literally) that Ge0rG is right in his use of reported.

  184. marc

    I think that's only necessary if you have multiple <item> elements

  185. jonasw

    marc, using a form would be the wrong semantic here.

  186. zinid

    and I don't have reported support in ejabberd

  187. zinid

    great

  188. marc has joined

  189. marc

    :D

  190. jonasw

    zinid, I know that feel

  191. Ge0rG

    I've combined an example from ad-hoc with what marc wrote in his XEP.

  192. andrey.g has joined

  193. jonasw

    damn

  194. jonasw

    I was hoping that Ad-Hoc might forbid that

  195. marc

    :D

  196. marc

    <iq type='result' to='romeo@example.com' from='example.com' id='exec2'> <command xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/commands' sessionid='config:20020923T213616Z-700' node='invite' status='completed'> <x xmlns='jabber:x:data' type='result'> <item> <field var='uri'> <value>xmpp:example.com?register;invite-token=TOKEN</value> </field> <field var='landing-url'> <value>https://example.com/invite/#TOKEN</value> </field> <field var='expire'> <value>2017-11-06T02:56:15Z</value> </field> </item> </x> </command> </iq>

  197. marc

    Ignore the XMPP URI...

  198. jonasw

    let me delve into the horros and re-read XEP-0004 on the reported thing

  199. Holger

    > (the only exception possibly features for PubSub) IIRC we use _ and - inconsistently there \o/

  200. lskdjf has joined

  201. marc

    Time to update the XEP then ;)

  202. jonasw

    it isn’t clear to me whether <reported/> is required when type='result' is used

  203. jonasw

    there is no normative language regarding that afaict

  204. daniel has left

  205. daniel has joined

  206. mathieui

    btw, xmpp.net: “ It's too busy, try again later. ”

  207. jonasw

    again?

  208. jonasw

    I need to fix that issue which makes some domains break the queue

  209. jonasw

    but I was hoping not having to touch PHP

  210. SouL

    underscores for the win!

  211. moparisthebest

    marc: I also hacked it into my conversations fork and have been using it for a month or so, works great

  212. marc

    moparisthebest, how do you send SMS? How do you select the recipient?

  213. moparisthebest

    The hard part has been designing a plugin API but I'm almost done with that too

  214. moparisthebest

    The local part of the jid

  215. marc

    moparisthebest, so you just add a contact to the roster?

  216. moparisthebest

    marc: I don't really bother with that yet

  217. moparisthebest

    https://github.com/moparisthebest/Conversations/tree/sms

  218. moparisthebest

    That's the hacky code, expect conversations pr and separate stand alone plugin in a few days

  219. marc

    moparisthebest, hehe nice :)

  220. moparisthebest

    marc: if you're much of an Android dev I want MMS with attachments to convert to/from http upload too but MMS on Android looks like a nightmare...

  221. jonasw

    s/MMS/anything/

  222. jonasw

    hm, that was unfortunate

  223. jonasw

    s/MMS/anything/;s/anything/MMS/ should fix it

  224. moparisthebest

    SMS isn't bad, but yes this is all way worse than plain Java

  225. jonasw

    and plain java is already bad ;-)

  226. SouL

    What did you say!?

  227. marc

    moparisthebest, I'm not really an Android dev :D

  228. moparisthebest

    jonasw: well it's no rust, but at least it's not erlang :)

  229. marc

    moparisthebest, what happens if you have two Conversations clients with your plugin? :)

  230. moparisthebest

    marc: badness

  231. marc

    :D

  232. moparisthebest

    Double sms I'd guess

  233. jonasw

    moparisthebest, actually, I need to look into erlang.

  234. jonasw

    that video is convincing

  235. marc

    I like Erlang somehow :)

  236. SouL

    jonasw, do you have a link for it? I forgot to bookmark it

  237. moparisthebest

    Erlang http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/nosql/

  238. jonasw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIjfIjssLE

  239. jonasw

    there you go

  240. marc

    moparisthebest, do you have plans to fix this or support it?

  241. moparisthebest

    marc: which

  242. marc

    moparisthebest, multiple SMS-capable devices

  243. moparisthebest

    marc: each could pick it's own different echo component and then it'd all work fine

  244. moparisthebest

    And yes the plugin will support that

  245. Kev has joined

  246. marc

    moparisthebest, but isn't the idea to allow sending SMS from desktop-clients, for example?

  247. moparisthebest

    Oh wait marc so all connected xmpp clients can send SMS

  248. moparisthebest

    Only the one conversations needs the plugin

  249. moparisthebest

    Others need nothing new or special

  250. moparisthebest

    That all works today

  251. marc

    Sure but what if I have two smartphones

  252. marc

    Or two SIM cards?

  253. moparisthebest

    That when you'd need a seperate echo domain for each

  254. moparisthebest

    Otherwise you don't know what number to send with

  255. marc

    moparisthebest, okay, can you somehow select which echo domain to be used?

  256. moparisthebest

    Yes

  257. moparisthebest

    Not in the hacky version with no options

  258. moparisthebest

    Plugin version will support this

  259. marc

    moparisthebest, sounds promising :)

  260. marc

    moparisthebest, But selection of the SMS-device will need support in other clients as well, right?

  261. moparisthebest

    Now I don't have a phone with 2 Sim cards so that will be harder

  262. moparisthebest

    No

  263. moparisthebest

    All other clients see is a regular xmpp chat

  264. jjrh has left

  265. marc

    moparisthebest, how do you decide the SIM card/device? phonenumber@echo-sim1 and phonenumber@echo-sim2 ?

  266. moparisthebest

    The phone knows anything sent to echo.burtrum.org or whatever goes out via SMS

  267. daniel has left

  268. Kev has left

  269. debacle has joined

  270. @Alacer has left

  271. Guus

    Hi all - I'm attempting to arrange for a hotel discount for the upcoming Summit and Fosdem in Brussels (February 1st - 4th). To get some kind of headcount, it'd be good if you could sign up on the wiki page if you're planning to be there: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22

  272. daniel has left

  273. jjrh has left

  274. jjrh has left

  275. tux has joined

  276. jjrh has left

  277. Kev has left

  278. daniel has left

  279. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest> All other clients see is a regular xmpp chat Why is this message duplicated in my client? Meh.

  280. zinid

    I constantly receive duplicates

  281. Ge0rG

    zinid: it should be filtered away by yaxim's deduplicator.

  282. @Alacer has joined

  283. zinid

    yeah, heuristics

  284. Ge0rG

    Unfortunately, my client doesn't have a log going back 20mins, and my server doesn't log outgoing c2s stanzas. Meh.

  285. jcbrand has left

  286. lumi has joined

  287. Ge0rG

    zinid: MUC message (ID) rewriting makes heuristics a required feature.

  288. zinid

    Ge0rG, I know

  289. jonasw

    Ge0rG, why do you see different peoples messages twice though?

  290. Ge0rG

    Ok, now this is just getting more and more weird. prosody only delivered that message ID once to my yaxim.

  291. Ge0rG

    jonasw: it's only a single message from a single person duplicated.

  292. Ge0rG

    Maybe my MSN just rejoined the MUC, but I should get the message as part of history then.

  293. Ge0rG

    Okay, there was a 0198 reconnect just in that moment.

  294. Ge0rG

    Something fishy is going on, and I don't know what it is.

  295. Ge0rG

    Will increase logcat buffer to 16M now.

  296. jjrh has left

  297. jjrh has left

  298. jcbrand has joined

  299. pep.

    jonasw, Ge0rG, thanks for the links! (PARS)

  300. zinid

    Ge0rG, does yaxim dump XML traffic in logcat?

  301. Ge0rG

    zinid: if you enable it, yes.

  302. zinid

    Ge0rG, nice

  303. sezuan has joined

  304. jonasw

    sounds like an off-by-one in the stream management handling

  305. jonasw

    reminds me of early aioxmpp's reconnect loops when a broken stanza was received. broken stanza -> exception -> disconnect stream -> resume stream management -> receive same broken stanza

  306. Ge0rG

    jonasw: yeah, well possible. But I know for sure that I've fixed the off-by-ones in yaxim. It was a long and complex process

  307. Ge0rG

    jonasw: if you close the stream, you are not allowed to resume.

  308. @Alacer has left

  309. jonasw

    Ge0rG, I’m not sure that the stream was closed cleanly. it’s been a while.

  310. Tobias has joined

  311. @Alacer has joined

  312. tux has left

  313. @Alacer has left

  314. arc has left

  315. arc has joined

  316. marc

    Ge0rG, are you fine with 'invite' and 'create-account' ad-hoc command names?

  317. Ge0rG

    marc: yeah

  318. jonasw

    what are the semantics of those commands again?

  319. marc

    jonasw, invite a user, create an account (optinal with predefined username) :)

  320. jonasw

    create an account we already have an adhoc for that

  321. Ge0rG

    jonasw: the former will create a PARS link with an "ibr" tag.

  322. marc

    latter is for admins or other privileged users

  323. Ge0rG

    jonasw: do we?

  324. Ge0rG

    jonasw: the goal is for the admin to define the user name, and then the user can use IBR to specify their password.

  325. marc

    Ge0rG, jonasw I tink we had this exact same disucussion a couple of days ago :D

  326. jonasw

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0133.html#add-user

  327. jonasw

    Ge0rG, ah okay

  328. jonasw

    ahh, so it’s invite minus PARS

  329. marc

    I think the wording was exactly the same :D

  330. SamWhited has left

  331. Ge0rG

    jonasw: no, it's a "I define a username and send a link" thing

  332. Ge0rG

    jonasw: so it's rather PARS-for-accounts

  333. Ge0rG

    jonasw: and it implies PARS between inviter and invitee

  334. jonasw

    Ge0rG, how is that different from "invite minus PARS"?

  335. jonasw

    no wait

  336. jonasw

    so create-account allows for IBR registration, but also PARS?

  337. jonasw

    what’s the difference to invite then?

  338. marc

    invite gives you the possiblity to create an account or just make server-side PARS

  339. marc

    account-creation creates an account on the server

  340. jonasw

    and create-account forces account creation?

  341. marc

    yes

  342. jonasw

    I see

  343. marc

    jonasw, any objections so far? :)

  344. jonasw

    make sure you make that distinction clear in the document and provide use cases which support that distinction

  345. Ge0rG

    jonasw: create-account is for admins who want to enroll friends. invite is for users of (semi)public servers.

  346. Ge0rG

    jonasw: a server admin can use invite if they don't want to pre-define the account name

  347. jonasw

    Ge0rG, I don’t see why I wouldn’t use invite as an admin, too?

  348. Ge0rG

    jonasw: however, there is no guarantee that an invite will lead to account creation

  349. Ge0rG

    jonasw: if the user already has an account, invite will merely fall-back to PARS

  350. jonasw

    win

  351. jonasw

    why wouldn’t I want that?

  352. Ge0rG

    jonasw: what?

  353. Ge0rG

    Sigh. Something just happened, and now my yaxim got reset.

  354. Ge0rG

    like, all-data-lost-app-reset.

  355. jonasw

    why would I want force people to create an account?

  356. jonasw

    if they already have one?

  357. jonasw

    especially if they still could create an account with 'invite' if they wanted to

  358. jonasw

    create-account seems to have only limitations in my eyes

  359. jonasw

    and I’m failing to see the use-case for that

  360. marc

    jonasw, if you want to ensure that set of users is on your server, for example if you don't use E2EE :D

  361. Ge0rG

    jonasw: it's because marc insists that you want to have all your friends on your server.

  362. jonasw

    I see

  363. jonasw

    I don’t follow that argument, but okay

  364. jonasw

    I don’t care as long as both works and I don’t have to use create-account :)

  365. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I see create-account as a feature I can use to easily onboard my grand-aunt.

  366. jonasw

    why don’t use invite for that?

  367. jonasw

    why not use invite for that?

  368. jonasw

    ah, because they have to choose an account name

  369. Ge0rG

    right

  370. jonasw

    but then again, clients could offer default names based on the screenname, as was discussed earlier here, IIRC

  371. Ge0rG has left

  372. marc

    Maybe you have a company or other organization where you have to enforce that all memebers are on a "special" server. For privacy reasons, for example.

  373. Ge0rG

    marc: good point.

  374. jonasw

    indeed

  375. Ge0rG

    marc: mention it in the rationale / user-story

  376. jonasw

    yes

  377. marc

    Ge0rG, thanks!

  378. Ge0rG

    the XSF loves corporate rollouts

  379. jonasw

    that’s the kind of example I was looking for :)

  380. Ge0rG has left

  381. marc

    Okay, good that we agree on that :) I'm happy now

  382. jonasw

    (even though corporate onboarding will probably work very different)

  383. Ge0rG has left

  384. jjrh has left

  385. Ge0rG has left

  386. la|r|ma has joined

  387. jjrh has left

  388. jjrh has left

  389. andrey.g has left

  390. sonny has left

  391. sonny has joined

  392. ralphm has left

  393. lumi has joined

  394. jjrh has left

  395. sonny has joined

  396. sonny has joined

  397. ralphm has joined

  398. marc

    jonasw, yes, but this depends of how big the "organization" is

  399. Ge0rG has joined

  400. marc

    s/of/on

  401. jonasw

    normally there would be some kind of single-sign-on in place and the xmppd may not even have privilegues to create an account there. but sure, there may be use-cases.

  402. Tobias has joined

  403. daniel has left

  404. la|r|ma has joined

  405. Ge0rG has joined

  406. jjrh has left

  407. Alex has joined

  408. ralphm has joined

  409. nyco has left

  410. daniel has left

  411. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, don't know why it was duplicated, at the time I only had conversations running so single client even

  412. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: looks like it was a yaxim bug, but we'll never find out. Sorry for bothering you.

  413. zinid

    but people already have accounts (twitter, google), why do you want to register them on your server?

  414. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, no bother, conversations has a method for guessing if a message is the same not sure if you can copy it

  415. zinid

    why we cannot use oauth, like all others do?

  416. marc

    zinid, oauth is about authorization, you still need to create an account, right?

  417. zinid

    marc, right

  418. marc

    zinid, what's you point regarding the account creation / user invitation proposal then?

  419. Ge0rG has joined

  420. zinid

    marc, you need no account creation

  421. zinid

    you can create it on the fly at first login

  422. marc

    zinid, you're talking about public servers, right?

  423. zinid

    marc, I would use it on my private server too, why not?

  424. marc

    zinid, okay, I have a private server and want somebody to join it

  425. marc

    zinid, what's your protocol flow then?

  426. zinid

    I'm not talking about invitation

  427. zinid

    this is a separate subject

  428. Ge0rG

    Step 1: troll everyone Step 2: ??? Step 3: PROFIT!

  429. SouL

    Hahaha

  430. zinid

    Ge0rG, wow, oauth is trolling now?

  431. marc

    zinid, but we were talking about invitation

  432. zinid

    > why would I want force people to create an account? I replied to this ^^^

  433. Ge0rG

    zinid: with oauth, you can connect to an existing account. but you can't xmpp-connect to a service not offering xmpp

  434. zinid

    what?

  435. Zash has left

  436. Ge0rG

    zinid: you could create an xmpp account by logging in with an oauth provider and using that provider as "identity verification"

  437. zinid

    so what?

  438. Ge0rG

    zinid: you can't login to twitter with an xmpp client

  439. zinid

    I can

  440. zinid

    for user this will be transparent

  441. zinid

    you choose an xmpp server, provides oauth provider and it's done

  442. Ge0rG

    zinid: so you will still create an xmpp account?

  443. zinid

    sure

  444. zinid

    in an automatic way

  445. zinid

    the point is that it's pain in ass to keep all accounts with passwords for a user

  446. Ge0rG

    zinid: so instead of a password, you use an oauth token issued by Faceoogle?

  447. zinid

    yes

  448. zinid

    or how it's called, I don't remember details

  449. zinid

    you can fetch address book and send invites by the way

  450. zinid has left

  451. zinid has left

  452. zinid has left

  453. zinid has left

  454. Tobias has joined

  455. Zash has left

  456. zinid has joined

  457. jcbrand has left

  458. lumi has joined

  459. @Alacer has joined

  460. ralphm has joined

  461. Holger has left

  462. jcbrand has joined

  463. daniel has left

  464. mimi89999 has joined

  465. Tobias has joined

  466. uc has left

  467. uc has joined

  468. jjrh has left

  469. Martin has joined

  470. Martin has left

  471. Holger has left

  472. Tobias has joined

  473. andrey.g has joined

  474. daniel has left

  475. andrey.g has joined

  476. ralphm has left

  477. andrey.g has joined

  478. mimi89999 has joined

  479. sezuan has left

  480. daniel has left

  481. Holger has left

  482. efrit has joined

  483. @Alacer has left

  484. lovetox has joined

  485. @Alacer has joined

  486. SamWhited has joined

  487. ralphm has joined

  488. @Alacer has left

  489. jubalh has left

  490. jubalh has joined

  491. ralphm has joined

  492. daniel has left

  493. daniel has left

  494. jubalh has left

  495. ralphm has joined

  496. daniel has left

  497. nyco has left

  498. @Alacer has joined

  499. daniel has left

  500. daniel has left

  501. mimi89999 has joined

  502. jcbrand has left

  503. jcbrand has joined

  504. jjrh has left

  505. Holger has left

  506. daniel has left

  507. Ge0rG has left

  508. ralphm has left

  509. Tobias has left

  510. Tobias has joined

  511. daniel has left

  512. daniel has left

  513. daniel has left

  514. jjrh has left

  515. @Alacer has left

  516. jubalh has left

  517. jjrh has left

  518. zinid has left

  519. ralphm has joined

  520. tux has joined

  521. Ge0rG has left

  522. jubalh has joined

  523. jjrh has left

  524. Steve Kille has left

  525. Steve Kille has left

  526. jjrh has left

  527. Steve Kille has joined

  528. Tobias has joined

  529. Tobias has joined

  530. Ge0rG has joined

  531. efrit has left

  532. nyco has left

  533. mathieui

    https://help.aol.com/articles/aim-discontinued RIP.

  534. pep.

    What a shame

  535. Ge0rG has left

  536. edhelas

    time to replace it with another protocol

  537. mathieui

    there’s nothing to replace

  538. mathieui

    nobody was using it

  539. pep.

    "Can I still use AIM between now and December 15?", *now* being Dec 11th.

  540. Ge0rG

    more users than XMPP? :P

  541. Ge0rG

    But ICQ is still running?

  542. Steve Kille has left

  543. Tobias has joined

  544. Ge0rG has left

  545. matlag has left

  546. jjrh has left

  547. Ge0rG has left

  548. mimi89999 has joined

  549. Ge0rG has joined

  550. marc has left

  551. Kev has joined

  552. ThurahT

    by now I've helped ~15 people to convert to xmpp. And I never even had AIM.. : )

  553. Ge0rG has joined

  554. Ge0rG

    ThurahT: are they all on jabber.org? :D

  555. ThurahT

    yeah, I wanted only the best for them

  556. SamWhited

    not sure if…

  557. ThurahT

    : )

  558. Ge0rG smells sarcasm

  559. marc has left

  560. jonasw

    when the news broke that AIM was about to be discontinued, I suggested to set up an XMPP domain which focuses on easy conversion from AIM

  561. jonasw

    nobody had the time though :)

  562. Ge0rG

    jonasw: such an irony

  563. ThurahT

    I had a few who might have needed that. But eventually they caught on setting servers up.

  564. daniel has left

  565. Alex has left

  566. jjrh has left

  567. jjrh has left

  568. Kev has left

  569. @Alacer has joined

  570. sonny has left

  571. sonny has joined

  572. Alex has joined

  573. nyco has left

  574. Alex has left

  575. Zash has left

  576. Ge0rG has joined

  577. @Alacer has left

  578. lskdjf has left

  579. uc has left

  580. uc has joined

  581. jjrh has left

  582. ralphm has left

  583. Holger has left

  584. jubalh has left

  585. jubalh has joined

  586. Kev has left

  587. nyco has left

  588. @Alacer has joined

  589. Kev has left

  590. Ge0rG has joined

  591. jubalh has left

  592. jjrh has left

  593. jjrh has left

  594. debacle has joined

  595. jjrh has left

  596. jjrh has left

  597. jjrh has left

  598. jjrh has left

  599. jjrh has left

  600. jjrh has left

  601. ralphm has joined

  602. ralphm has joined

  603. jjrh has left

  604. jjrh has left

  605. jjrh has left

  606. jjrh has left

  607. jjrh has left

  608. Holger has left

  609. ralphm has left

  610. nyco has left

  611. ralphm has joined

  612. ralphm has left

  613. daniel has left

  614. daniel has left

  615. sonny has joined

  616. sonny has joined

  617. lskdjf has left

  618. ralphm has joined

  619. stefandxm has left

  620. pep. has joined

  621. ralphm has left

  622. ralphm has joined

  623. lumi has joined

  624. Ge0rG has left

  625. ralphm has joined

  626. ralphm has joined

  627. ralphm has left

  628. ralphm has joined

  629. Ge0rG has left

  630. ralphm has left

  631. ralphm has joined

  632. daniel has left

  633. ralphm has left

  634. ralphm has joined

  635. ralphm has left

  636. ralphm has joined

  637. daniel has left

  638. marc has joined

  639. SamWhited has joined

  640. Ge0rG has left

  641. zinid has left

  642. marc has left

  643. jubalh has joined

  644. jubalh has left

  645. daniel has left

  646. stefandxm has joined

  647. ralphm has joined

  648. ralphm has joined

  649. @Alacer has left

  650. jabberatdemo has joined

  651. jabberatdemo has left

  652. @Alacer has joined

  653. Ge0rG has joined

  654. daniel has left

  655. zinid

    jonasw, don't be sad, that was pointless anyway, everyone is "converted" into whatsapp 🙂

  656. Holger has left

  657. moparisthebest has left

  658. jubalh has joined

  659. @Alacer has left

  660. jubalh has left

  661. @Alacer has joined

  662. jonasw has left

  663. jonasw has joined

  664. jcbrand has left

  665. Ge0rG has left

  666. pep. has left

  667. jjrh has left

  668. Guus has left

  669. pep. has left

  670. daniel has left

  671. pep. has left

  672. ralphm has joined

  673. Ge0rG has left

  674. jonasw has left

  675. jonasw has joined

  676. Guus has left

  677. Ge0rG has left

  678. McKael has joined

  679. zinid has left

  680. Ge0rG has left

  681. @Alacer has left

  682. @Alacer has joined

  683. jjrh has left

  684. SouL has left

  685. ralphm has joined

  686. Ge0rG has left

  687. Ge0rG has left

  688. jjrh has left

  689. jubalh has joined

  690. jjrh has left

  691. ralphm has left

  692. ralphm has joined

  693. @Alacer has left

  694. sonny has joined

  695. sonny has joined

  696. Ge0rG has left

  697. jjrh has left

  698. goffi has left

  699. @Alacer has joined

  700. Ge0rG has left

  701. valo has left

  702. valo has joined

  703. goffi has joined

  704. Ge0rG has left

  705. sonny has left

  706. sonny has joined

  707. jjrh has left

  708. jubalh has left

  709. moparisthebest has joined

  710. Ge0rG has left

  711. Ge0rG has left

  712. ralphm has joined

  713. ralphm has joined

  714. Ge0rG has left

  715. Ge0rG has left

  716. @Alacer has left

  717. jubalh has left

  718. bear has left

  719. ralphm has joined

  720. sonny has joined

  721. @Alacer has joined

  722. jubalh has joined

  723. Ge0rG has left

  724. jonasw has left

  725. jonasw has joined

  726. ralphm has joined

  727. Ge0rG has left

  728. pep. has left

  729. SamWhited has left

  730. sonny has joined

  731. Ge0rG has left

  732. Ge0rG has left

  733. ralphm has joined

  734. jubalh has left

  735. lovetox has left

  736. Ge0rG has left

  737. Ge0rG has left

  738. Ge0rG has left

  739. Ge0rG has left

  740. goffi has left

  741. sonny has left

  742. sonny has joined

  743. Ge0rG has left

  744. marc has joined

  745. sonny has left

  746. sonny has joined

  747. sonny has left

  748. sonny has joined

  749. ralphm has left

  750. ralphm has joined

  751. Ge0rG has left

  752. jjrh has left

  753. Ge0rG has left

  754. Ge0rG has left

  755. sonny has left

  756. sonny has joined

  757. sonny has joined

  758. sonny has joined

  759. sonny has left

  760. sonny has joined

  761. sonny has left

  762. sonny has joined

  763. sonny has joined

  764. sonny has joined

  765. sonny has left

  766. sonny has joined

  767. sonny has left

  768. sonny has joined

  769. Ge0rG has left

  770. lumi has left

  771. daniel has left

  772. sonny has left

  773. sonny has joined

  774. sonny has left

  775. sonny has joined

  776. sonny has left

  777. sonny has joined

  778. Ge0rG has left

  779. sonny has left

  780. sonny has joined

  781. sonny has left

  782. sonny has joined

  783. sonny has left

  784. sonny has joined

  785. daniel has left

  786. jjrh has left