pep.Ge0rG, can you point me to a thread for PARS? (on standards?)
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Ge0rGIt's in the June 2016 archive I think, will look up from PC later
jonaswLMSTFY
jonaswpep.,
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2016-June/031150.html
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-April/032599.html
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-May/032616.html
(if you get a chance, Ge0rG, please confirm that this is the thread you meant to link)
jonasw(those are three links, but it’s the same thread, mailman archive is stupid)
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Ge0rGjonasw: thanks, those are exactly the right links
jonaswGe0rG, yw
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marcThere was some guy who proposed a protocol to access SMS via XMPP from multiple clients. What happend with this protocol/idea?
Ge0rGmarc: are you talking about https://jmp.chat/ or moparisthebest' self-echo component?
marcGe0rG, do we need to return the TOKEN (ad-hoc command)?
marcCould be used as manual fallback but apart from that I don't know a good reason to return it
Ge0rGmarc: we MUST return an xmpp: URI and we MAY return a web URI
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marcGe0rG, yes, I know but this wasn't the question :P
Ge0rGmarc: my answer was supposed to be comprehensive, so we should not return anything beyond that
Ge0rGmarc: one could think about adding a description text, token validity info, onboarding information etc.; but I think a minimal protocol is beneficial
marcGe0rG, well I already have defined a token expiration field :)
Ge0rGmarc: I think that URI and URL are not the right names, BTW.
marcGe0rG, I'm open for suggestions :)
Ge0rGmarc: I'd go with `uri` for the xmpp: link, but something like `landingpage` or `web` for the https
marcyeah, but it should contain 'url' I think
marcsomething like landing_url
marcmaybe...
jonaswplease no underscores in XML
Ge0rGmarc: after thinking about it, it's okay to return the validity to the inviter. Their client could create an i18ned message to share, like "Hi, I would like to invite you to chat with me under <https://...>. This link will expire in 2 weeks."
marcGe0rG, I know the difference between URI and URL
marcGe0rG, What's your point? :D
jonaswGe0rG, do you find it ironic that your link has UTF-8 mojibake?
jonasw> depending on the client’s capabilities
Ge0rGmarc: my point is that by using "uri" and "url" in the response, you imply they are different representations of the same thing, whereas they are different things, more or less.
Ge0rGjonasw: yes. Sorry.
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marcGe0rG, yes, that's correct so we'll change this. But 'landing_url' or 'invitation_url' are okay in my opinion
Ge0rGmarc: "jonasw> please no underscores in XML"
marcoh, missed that :D
marcWhat's the reason?
jonaswit’s ugly
jonaswwe don’t do it in XMPP so far, AFAIK
Ge0rGjonasw: would you be ok with `landing-url`?
jonasw(the only exception possibly features for PubSub)
moparisthebestThat's the hacky code, expect conversations pr and separate stand alone plugin in a few days
marcmoparisthebest, hehe nice :)
moparisthebestmarc: if you're much of an Android dev I want MMS with attachments to convert to/from http upload too but MMS on Android looks like a nightmare...
jonasws/MMS/anything/
jonaswhm, that was unfortunate
jonasws/MMS/anything/;s/anything/MMS/ should fix it
moparisthebestSMS isn't bad, but yes this is all way worse than plain Java
jonaswand plain java is already bad ;-)
SouLWhat did you say!?
marcmoparisthebest, I'm not really an Android dev :D
moparisthebestjonasw: well it's no rust, but at least it's not erlang :)
marcmoparisthebest, what happens if you have two Conversations clients with your plugin? :)
moparisthebestmarc: badness
marc:D
moparisthebestDouble sms I'd guess
jonaswmoparisthebest, actually, I need to look into erlang.
jonaswthat video is convincing
marcI like Erlang somehow :)
SouLjonasw, do you have a link for it? I forgot to bookmark it
marcmoparisthebest, do you have plans to fix this or support it?
moparisthebestmarc: which
marcmoparisthebest, multiple SMS-capable devices
moparisthebestmarc: each could pick it's own different echo component and then it'd all work fine
moparisthebestAnd yes the plugin will support that
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marcmoparisthebest, but isn't the idea to allow sending SMS from desktop-clients, for example?
moparisthebestOh wait marc so all connected xmpp clients can send SMS
moparisthebestOnly the one conversations needs the plugin
moparisthebestOthers need nothing new or special
moparisthebestThat all works today
marcSure but what if I have two smartphones
marcOr two SIM cards?
moparisthebestThat when you'd need a seperate echo domain for each
moparisthebestOtherwise you don't know what number to send with
marcmoparisthebest, okay, can you somehow select which echo domain to be used?
moparisthebestYes
moparisthebestNot in the hacky version with no options
moparisthebestPlugin version will support this
marcmoparisthebest, sounds promising :)
marcmoparisthebest, But selection of the SMS-device will need support in other clients as well, right?
moparisthebestNow I don't have a phone with 2 Sim cards so that will be harder
moparisthebestNo
moparisthebestAll other clients see is a regular xmpp chat
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marcmoparisthebest, how do you decide the SIM card/device? phonenumber@echo-sim1 and phonenumber@echo-sim2 ?
moparisthebestThe phone knows anything sent to echo.burtrum.org or whatever goes out via SMS
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GuusHi all - I'm attempting to arrange for a hotel discount for the upcoming Summit and Fosdem in Brussels (February 1st - 4th). To get some kind of headcount, it'd be good if you could sign up on the wiki page if you're planning to be there: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22
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Ge0rGmoparisthebest> All other clients see is a regular xmpp chat
Why is this message duplicated in my client? Meh.
zinidI constantly receive duplicates
Ge0rGzinid: it should be filtered away by yaxim's deduplicator.
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zinidyeah, heuristics
Ge0rGUnfortunately, my client doesn't have a log going back 20mins, and my server doesn't log outgoing c2s stanzas. Meh.
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Ge0rGzinid: MUC message (ID) rewriting makes heuristics a required feature.
zinidGe0rG, I know
jonaswGe0rG, why do you see different peoples messages twice though?
Ge0rGOk, now this is just getting more and more weird. prosody only delivered that message ID once to my yaxim.
Ge0rGjonasw: it's only a single message from a single person duplicated.
Ge0rGMaybe my MSN just rejoined the MUC, but I should get the message as part of history then.
Ge0rGOkay, there was a 0198 reconnect just in that moment.
Ge0rGSomething fishy is going on, and I don't know what it is.
Ge0rGWill increase logcat buffer to 16M now.
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pep.jonasw, Ge0rG, thanks for the links! (PARS)
zinidGe0rG, does yaxim dump XML traffic in logcat?
Ge0rGzinid: if you enable it, yes.
zinidGe0rG, nice
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jonaswsounds like an off-by-one in the stream management handling
jonaswreminds me of early aioxmpp's reconnect loops when a broken stanza was received. broken stanza -> exception -> disconnect stream -> resume stream management -> receive same broken stanza
Ge0rGjonasw: yeah, well possible. But I know for sure that I've fixed the off-by-ones in yaxim. It was a long and complex process
Ge0rGjonasw: if you close the stream, you are not allowed to resume.
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jonaswGe0rG, I’m not sure that the stream was closed cleanly. it’s been a while.
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marcGe0rG, are you fine with 'invite' and 'create-account' ad-hoc command names?
Ge0rGmarc: yeah
jonaswwhat are the semantics of those commands again?
marcjonasw, invite a user, create an account (optinal with predefined username) :)
jonaswcreate an account we already have an adhoc for that
Ge0rGjonasw: the former will create a PARS link with an "ibr" tag.
marclatter is for admins or other privileged users
Ge0rGjonasw: do we?
Ge0rGjonasw: the goal is for the admin to define the user name, and then the user can use IBR to specify their password.
marcGe0rG, jonasw I tink we had this exact same disucussion a couple of days ago :D
Ge0rGjonasw: no, it's a "I define a username and send a link" thing
Ge0rGjonasw: so it's rather PARS-for-accounts
Ge0rGjonasw: and it implies PARS between inviter and invitee
jonaswGe0rG, how is that different from "invite minus PARS"?
jonaswno wait
jonaswso create-account allows for IBR registration, but also PARS?
jonaswwhat’s the difference to invite then?
marcinvite gives you the possiblity to create an account or just make server-side PARS
marcaccount-creation creates an account on the server
jonaswand create-account forces account creation?
marcyes
jonaswI see
marcjonasw, any objections so far? :)
jonaswmake sure you make that distinction clear in the document and provide use cases which support that distinction
Ge0rGjonasw: create-account is for admins who want to enroll friends. invite is for users of (semi)public servers.
Ge0rGjonasw: a server admin can use invite if they don't want to pre-define the account name
jonaswGe0rG, I don’t see why I wouldn’t use invite as an admin, too?
Ge0rGjonasw: however, there is no guarantee that an invite will lead to account creation
Ge0rGjonasw: if the user already has an account, invite will merely fall-back to PARS
jonaswwin
jonaswwhy wouldn’t I want that?
Ge0rGjonasw: what?
Ge0rGSigh. Something just happened, and now my yaxim got reset.
Ge0rGlike, all-data-lost-app-reset.
jonaswwhy would I want force people to create an account?
jonaswif they already have one?
jonaswespecially if they still could create an account with 'invite' if they wanted to
jonaswcreate-account seems to have only limitations in my eyes
jonaswand I’m failing to see the use-case for that
marcjonasw, if you want to ensure that set of users is on your server, for example if you don't use E2EE :D
Ge0rGjonasw: it's because marc insists that you want to have all your friends on your server.
jonaswI see
jonaswI don’t follow that argument, but okay
jonaswI don’t care as long as both works and I don’t have to use create-account :)
Ge0rGjonasw: I see create-account as a feature I can use to easily onboard my grand-aunt.
jonaswwhy don’t use invite for that?
jonaswwhy not use invite for that?
jonaswah, because they have to choose an account name
Ge0rGright
jonaswbut then again, clients could offer default names based on the screenname, as was discussed earlier here, IIRC
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marcMaybe you have a company or other organization where you have to enforce that all memebers are on a "special" server. For privacy reasons, for example.
Ge0rGmarc: good point.
jonaswindeed
Ge0rGmarc: mention it in the rationale / user-story
jonaswyes
marcGe0rG, thanks!
Ge0rGthe XSF loves corporate rollouts
jonaswthat’s the kind of example I was looking for :)
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marcOkay, good that we agree on that :) I'm happy now
jonasw(even though corporate onboarding will probably work very different)
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marcjonasw, yes, but this depends of how big the "organization" is
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marcs/of/on
jonaswnormally there would be some kind of single-sign-on in place and the xmppd may not even have privilegues to create an account there. but sure, there may be use-cases.
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moparisthebestGe0rG, don't know why it was duplicated, at the time I only had conversations running so single client even
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: looks like it was a yaxim bug, but we'll never find out. Sorry for bothering you.
zinidbut people already have accounts (twitter, google), why do you want to register them on your server?
moparisthebestGe0rG, no bother, conversations has a method for guessing if a message is the same not sure if you can copy it
zinidwhy we cannot use oauth, like all others do?
marczinid, oauth is about authorization, you still need to create an account, right?
zinidmarc, right
marczinid, what's you point regarding the account creation / user invitation proposal then?
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zinidmarc, you need no account creation
zinidyou can create it on the fly at first login
marczinid, you're talking about public servers, right?
zinidmarc, I would use it on my private server too, why not?
marczinid, okay, I have a private server and want somebody to join it