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marc
10:45:28
Is there a XML command list for XEPs?
jonasw
10:46:02
marc, I don’t understand the question
marc
10:46:21
jonasw, commands like <strong>
marc
10:46:24
"commands"
jonasw
10:46:25
ah
marc
10:46:26
tags
jonasw
10:46:28
you can read xep.dtd
jonasw
10:47:03
(well, if you can read DTDs ;))
marc
10:47:11
Yeah, a bit
jonasw
10:47:21
but that’s the normative reference for things which currently work in XEPs, as everything gets validated against that IIRC
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marc
10:48:53
I need a tag to make an indention like a list but without bullet points
jonasw
10:49:00
I don’t think we have that
jonasw
10:49:04
why?
marc
10:49:06
Argh :D
marc
10:49:17
Because it would look nice ;)
jonasw
10:49:22
what are you going to use it for?
marc
10:50:02
To "highlight" something
marc
10:50:07
Hard to describe ;)
jonasw
10:50:17
would be useful if you could be more specific
jonasw
10:50:22
there are example blocks for examples which may be useful
marc
10:50:36
Yeah, but it's an URI and not XML
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jonasw
10:50:44
does that matter?
jonasw
10:50:53
I don’t think that examples necessarily have to be XML
marc
10:51:09
Yeah, but the example block is very big for just a single line :D
jonasw
10:51:20
maybe just a code block without example?
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jonasw
10:51:37
like I used for the test vectors here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0390.html#algorithm-example-simple
marc
10:53:25
Hm, somehow it looks strange
marc
10:53:28
Doesn't matter for now :D
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marc
10:54:03
jonasw, Can I just copy paste from other XEPs?
jonasw
10:54:18
what do you want to copy&paste?
jonasw
10:54:30
citing would be more appropriate in many cases (use &xep1234; for that)
marc
10:55:18
Puh, but this would make reading this XEP very stressful
jonasw
10:55:48
the issue would be to keep things up-to-date if wording in the referenced xep changes, so I’d discourage that.
marc
10:55:49
I would copy some parts from https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0379.html#link_transmission for example
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jonasw
10:58:54
that is a prime example where quoting would be more appropriate ✎
jonasw
10:59:05
that is a prime example where citing would be more appropriate ✏
Ge0rG
10:59:57
jonasw: I've heard that
jonasw
11:00:12
Ge0rG, what’dya hear?
Ge0rG
11:02:36
jonasw: you criticizing my XEP :P
jonasw
11:02:40
do I? ✎
jonasw
11:02:46
am I? ✏
jonasw
11:02:50
I can’t english today.
Ge0rG
11:03:25
I can't today.
marc
11:03:48
Ge0rG, what do you think? quoting or copying?
Ge0rG
11:04:40
marc: what do you want to present? the returned URL?
marc
11:05:26
Ge0rG, provide information about the landing page
Ge0rG
11:06:10
marc: <div class="example"> :P
jonasw
11:06:33
I think you are confused.
marc
11:06:41
:D
Ge0rG
11:06:42
who? me?
jonasw
11:06:44
yeah
marc
11:06:45
Ge0rG, yes
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jonasw
11:07:00
Ge0rG, the current question is about whether marc shall copy the linked section from your XEP or rather cite it.
marc
11:07:01
Probably you should read the backlog once again :D
jonasw
11:07:06
I think citing is more appropriate
jonasw
11:07:17
this isn’t about markup anymore, even though I admit I thought that too at first.
Ge0rG
11:08:36
marc: I'm not opposed to you copying my text where it makes sense, but I think it would be better to write "An out-of-band presentation of the xmpp: URI according to XEP-0379 §3.3 [...] Example here: [...]"
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jonasw
11:09:13
I’d not go as far as "according to", but "like for example described in", because it’s not going to be normative
jonasw
11:09:15
(is it?)
marc
11:09:45
Well, I'll just copy it for now because I also changed some parts
marc
11:10:17
We can remove redundant parts later
marc
11:10:19
Okay?
Ge0rG
11:10:20
marc: if you change parts, please PR them against the original
Ge0rG
11:10:33
marc: nothing is worse than a slightly deviating copy.
marc
11:10:50
Ge0rG, well, we have to discuss my changes anyway
marc
11:11:02
Ge0rG, so let's do this before I PR something ;)
jonasw
11:11:09
I agree with Ge0rG
Ge0rG
11:11:18
marc: you can PR your new wording against 379 before copy&pasting from it.
jonasw
11:11:22
especially if the XEPs are going to interop ...
Ge0rG
11:11:34
marc: actually, what you just wrote made me change my mind. PLEASE DO NOT COPY&PASTE.
Ge0rG
11:11:43
Especially not COPY&PASTE&CHANGE.
marc
11:11:49
Ge0rG, :D
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marc
11:12:49
Ge0rG, I would recommend that you state something like "the landing page SHOULD contain the XMPP URI in the form of a QR code" in your XEP
jonasw
11:13:52
s/recommend/RECOMMEND/? :)
marc
11:14:10
:D
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marc
11:16:12
It is possible to reference to a specific section of a XEP?
Ge0rG
11:17:27
marc: if you open the link on your mobile device, how is a qr code going to help?
marc
11:18:10
Ge0rG, if _you_ open it on your mobile phone it doesn't help
marc
11:18:48
But if you open it on a desktop client it helps
marc
11:19:09
Or I open it because I generated it and my client doesn't generate QR codes for some reason
marc
11:19:46
desktop client -> desktop e-mail client or something like that
Ge0rG
11:20:10
marc: is there an xep that defines qr codes for xmpp?
marc
11:20:22
Ge0rG, just encode the XMPP URI
marc
11:20:26
works like a charm
Ge0rG
11:20:47
marc: not what I asked.
marc
11:20:58
Ge0rG, okay: no :P
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Ge0rG
11:21:14
marc: so you want me to create a precedent?
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marc
11:22:27
Ge0rG, I don't know if we need a XEP for it
marc
11:23:01
Ge0rG, you could also ask the other way around: how to use the invitation fpr your mobile device if the invitee opens the invitation on a desktop client and you only have a XMPP URI link
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marc
11:24:10
Ge0rG, we could also write a short XEP but I don't know if that's worth the effort
Ge0rG
11:24:16
marc: yes, a qr code is just the right thing there. The question is whether the developer of the landing page can make that leap without text in the xep
Ge0rG
11:24:56
marc: https://github.com/ge0rg/easy-xmpp-invitation/issues/6
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marc
11:25:47
Ge0rG, nice, you should add this idea to the XEP now :D
marc
11:27:06
Ge0rG, It's good that we agree at least on some points :>
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marc
11:47:14
jonasw, Ge0rG do you think it is possible to make HTTPS mandatory for the landing page?
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Ge0rG
11:47:47
marc: yes, but does that need to be written in the XEP?
jonasw
11:47:49
it sure is possible, the question is whether it is reasonable :)
marc
11:48:41
Ge0rG, if I don't write it in the XEP it is not required for the implementation, is it? :D
marc
11:49:19
It's pretty easy nowdays to deploy HTTPS
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marc
12:06:12
Ge0rG, current XEP version: http://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xeps/user-invite.html
marc
12:06:23
Please don't comment on minor issues
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SouL
12:10:03
Ge0rG, weren't you the guy doing a XEP like this? Or is something else?
Ge0rG
12:10:32
marc: it's still missing the two different user stories.
Ge0rG
12:10:50
SouL: [xep 0379]
Ge0rG
12:11:11
Sigh. I'll never get the bots right.
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Ge0rG
12:13:45
marc: I would tend to reuse the `preauth` element
marc
12:16:44
Ge0rG, yep, I'm aware of the user stories
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marc
12:17:11
Ge0rG, yeah, we have to discuss the URI elements / URI format
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marc
12:18:34
Ge0rG, other comments or objections?
Ge0rG
12:18:35
marc: `xmpp:inviter@server?;preauth=TOKEN;ibr`
Ge0rG
12:19:09
marc: it's a pretty rough state, so I'm not sure what parts I should comment about
marc
12:19:12
Ge0rG, "?;" doesn't make sense
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Ge0rG
12:19:43
marc: it does, if you want to explicitly say it's an empty action.
marc
12:19:48
Ge0rG, structuring, for example
marc
12:20:08
Ge0rG, no, because you assume that there is an ordering for query elements but that's not the case IMO
Ge0rG
12:20:42
marc: if there is no ordering, what's the action?
marc
12:21:23
Ge0rG, an element without value which is _defined_ somewhere as action I would say
Ge0rG
12:22:02
marc: `xmpp:inviter@server?preauth=TOKEN;ibr` then
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marc
12:22:46
Ge0rG, for example, the "?register" action would make sense for the "account creation" use case
Ge0rG
12:22:57
marc: it would be great to have decision trees
marc
12:23:57
Ge0rG, a set of defined actions is good starting point for decision trees, isn't it? :)
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Ge0rG
12:24:04
marc: for account creation it will be something like `xmpp:invitee@server?register;preauth=TOKEN`
marc
12:24:13
Ge0rG, +1
marc
12:24:39
xmpp://server?register;preauth=TOKEN
marc
12:24:49
oh no
Ge0rG
12:25:08
marc: the decisions are, for the inviter: force the user to join my server, or let them just add me?
Ge0rG
12:25:26
marc: for the invitee: do I have an xmpp account already?
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marc
12:25:52
yes
marc
12:26:54
But it would also be nice the have decision trees for URIs in general to provide the same UX in all clients
Ge0rG
12:26:58
marc: this needs to be written down in the XEP, with according recommendations for client behavior
marc
12:29:08
yes
marc
12:29:34
Ge0rG, btw, I would add the possibility to disable mutual roster subscription for account creation
marc
12:29:48
I think it makes sense for the account creation use case
Ge0rG
12:30:25
marc: I think you are making this more and more complex
Ge0rG
12:30:41
marc: there are many ways to add a user already
marc
12:31:05
Ge0rG, add a user = account creation?
marc
12:31:52
Ge0rG, it doesn't become more complex for the clients
Ge0rG
12:32:06
marc: it becomes more complex for the user
marc
12:32:17
Ge0rG, that's an admin thing not end-user
Ge0rG
12:32:28
marc: but yeah, it makes sense to add a flag
marc
12:32:28
Ge0rG, so we don't have to care about "UX"
jonasw
12:34:06
I am worried by the quotes around "UX".
Ge0rG
12:34:12
marc: what about "AX"?
marc
12:34:42
Ge0rG, As an admin I like options :p
Ge0rG
12:34:45
😁
marc
12:36:00
jonasw, because were're not talking about end-users here
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Ge0rG
12:37:03
Admins are users as well
marc
12:37:22
Yes that's why I said end-users
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