XSF Discussion - 2017-12-18

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  107. Ge0rG

    pep.: the message you sent to standards@ re MUC and presence=error. Did you have multiple clients joined to the MUC at that time with MSN?

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  154. daniel

    is there are requirement on how short shortnames have to be?

  155. jonasw


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  180. jonasw

    when marc is done-ish with his XEP, I should start a MUC Invite URL XEP which would be something like PARS but for MUCs

  181. jonasw

    (integrated with both PARS and what marc did)

  182. marc

    jonasw, that's nice, I had the same idea

  183. marc


  184. jonasw

    and then I’ll have to work on prosody to make all that happen and then I can actually invite people to XMPP

  185. SouL


  186. marc

    jonasw, are you prosody dev?

  187. jonasw


  188. jonasw

    but writing a module isn’t that hard :)

  189. marc

    yes, I know

  190. marc

    I looked at bit into the prosody code

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  194. Ge0rG

    jonasw: what's wrong with xmpp:muc@service?join ?

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  197. marc

    Ge0rG, the action parameter :P

  198. Ge0rG

    marc: what about it?

  199. marc

    Ge0rG, just kidding and a bit trolling ;)

  200. Ge0rG

    marc: awww. now I'm really disappointed. You promised you'd never troll.

  201. jonasw

    Ge0rG, members-only MUC

  202. marc

    yes, just a second and I thought it's obviously :)

  203. Ge0rG

    jonasw: fake it by adding a password.

  204. jonasw

    Ge0rG, that still doesn’t give people an account and presence subscription to me

  205. Ge0rG

    jonasw: wait, so you want an account, prsence subscription AND a MUC?

  206. jonasw

    Ge0rG, yes.

  207. jonasw

    integrate all the things

  208. Ge0rG

    jonasw: one-push-warm-and-cozy?

  209. jonasw


  210. Ge0rG

    Also including Mr. Robot trivia?

  211. SouL


  212. jonasw

    I have no Mr. Robot trivia

  213. Ge0rG

    one-tap would've been more appropriate, I suppose

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  215. Ge0rG

    jonasw: once you have them onboarded and added to your roster, you can just invite them into the MUC

  216. jonasw

    Ge0rG, true

  217. jonasw

    Ge0rG, that requires me to be online to make it work smoothly though

  218. Ge0rG

    jonasw: that's all client-side-PARS over again

  219. jonasw


  220. jonasw

    token-based MUC invitation woul dbe neat

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  223. daniel

    > I have no Mr. Robot trivia I stopped watching after the fight club scene. That was a bit too much for me

  224. Ge0rG

    I stopped watching after the second episode. It was playing out way too slowly, and the main actor was reminding me of the Frodo performance in LotR.

  225. zinid

    Ge0rG: same here, two episodes was my PR

  226. Ge0rG

    But sorry for OTing this MUC once again.

  227. Ge0rG

    jonasw: you could use the `preauth` token in MUC invitations as well.

  228. Ge0rG

    I'm still struggling to create a yaxim UI to invite users into a MUC.

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  230. zinid

    Ge0rG: just steal it somewhere

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  263. Holger

    Just auto-join :-)

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  272. Ge0rG

    Holger: not to handle invitations, that part is already implemented in a nice way. To send invitations

  273. Holger


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  281. Ge0rG

    I suppose the most logica place would be inside the MUC, and it would need to have some "Add/Invite participant" button, which would then show a contact picker of some sort.

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  283. zinid

    Brilliant solution

  284. Ge0rG

    zinid: I'm sure you have awesome ideas for that workflow

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  286. zinid

    Ge0rG: nah, I'm here to demotivate only

  287. SouL

    It's the approach I would follow, at least it is the first thing that comes to my mind.

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  289. Ge0rG

    Except I don't have a "contact picker", I'm using the main window for that.

  290. Ge0rG

    but it would be really confusing to fall back from the MUC invitation to the main window and have no way back.

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  433. daniel

    can I use links in a XEP?

  434. daniel

    to link to another section?

  435. pep.

    jonasw, re https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-December/034058.html should we PR? Or wait for a bit more input? Or PR and wait for input on these? :P

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  438. pep.

    I'll comment on the thread, but it actually "works fine" on ejabberd and mlink, or rather it's just not shown as a kick, they don't include 307. https://bpaste.net/raw/5eb5eda0bd42

  439. pep.

    I agree a new code would be more explicit, but then changing the XEP, and people updating their clients..

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  441. jonasw

    pep., sorry, I think that omitting 307 is the wrong way to go here.

  442. jonasw

    it’s misleading, while kick is just confusing

  443. pep.


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  445. pep.

    hmm, Conversations doesn't show kicks at all?

  446. pep.

    Unless it's me I suppose

  447. pep.

    This is meh

  448. jonasw

    conversations is minimalistic regarding these things

  449. pep.

    yeah I get that, still.

  450. pep.

    So I guess dino will have more or less the same pitch

  451. jonasw

    especially in the self-presence (code='110') it is highly misleading to omit any type of status code which indicates what’s going on

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  453. jonasw

    pep., I think preparing a PR makes sense

  454. jonasw

    I don’t care who of us does it. If you won’t, I’ll do it right away.

  455. pep.

    Not that I don't want to, but I have no idea how to formulate it

  456. jonasw

    k, will do

  457. pep.


  458. Flow

    wouldn't that be an example for a change either requiring a namespace bump of xep45, or, if you make it optiona, provide no real benefit?

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  461. jonasw

    Flow, no

  462. jonasw

    optional is fine

  463. jonasw

    it only matters for UI purposes anyways

  464. Flow

    ahh, ok

  465. jonasw

    it may also matter for other things in some special cases, but having it as a MAY is still better than nothing

  466. jonasw


  467. jonasw

    Flow, in fact, the status codes are a registry

  468. jonasw

    so trivial to add new ones

  469. jonasw

    except that we probably don’t have anything to update the registry HTML files in pace

  470. jonasw

    except that we probably don’t have anything to update the registry HTML files in place

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  478. Flow

    Doesn't matter if there is a registry: if the spec would suddenly say that this code is required for this case, then it would be a breaking change. But it's probably fine if you make it optional

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  498. pep.

    jonasw, thanks, just saw the PR!

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  500. pep.

    jonasw, Flow, in any case any client is going to need an update for this right? Because atm 307 is displayed as a kick

  501. jonasw

    pep., yes

  502. pep.

    jonasw, Flow, in any case all clients are going to need an update for this right? Because atm 307 is displayed as a kick

  503. jonasw

    I wonder why this has come up only now. It has been like this for ages.

  504. pep.

    So bump or not bump, it's the same issue right?

  505. pep.

    I'd say bump in this case, and make it required :x

  506. pep.

    jonasw, prosody rewrote their muc implementation in trunk

  507. pep.

    I guess they had a similar behavior to ejabberd/mlink before

  508. jonasw

    pep., I’m very sure that not

  509. jonasw

    because I’m observing this behaviour in prosody MUCs on 0.9

  510. pep.


  511. pep.


  512. jonasw

    bump MUC, are you out of your mind?!

  513. pep.

    yay standards

  514. pep.

    Well not just standards

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  516. pep.

    *Dear Santa, please help me deliver features to users faster, without bumps on the road*

  517. jonasw

    pep., this change allows you to do that. My suspicion is that it is only now that people notice because we have more non-technical people. Those people use clients which are actively developed and which will be able to adapt to 333 quickly

  518. tux

    There's a reason it is often called "bump version to X.X".

  519. pep.

    jonasw, how do we have more non-technical people

  520. jonasw

    pep., it is just my suspicion

  521. pep.

    This particular discussion about muc spawned from Link Mauve and me

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  551. daniel

    feedback welcome: https://gultsch.de/files/pep-vcard-conversion.html

  552. jonasw

    daniel, when you get a chance, update your CSS, it’s nicer to read then.

  553. jonasw

    daniel, neat

  554. jonasw

    Does it make sense to have servers apply the same Access Control for the vCard as they do for PEP-Avatar?

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  558. daniel

    i rather not change a historical xep; the default access model would not work in muc

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  560. daniel

    the only sensible way is to do the conversion only if the access model of pep is whitelist

  561. jonasw

    why is that?

  562. daniel


  563. jonasw

    I don’t understand why it makes sense to do the conversion iff the whitelist access_model is used.

  564. jonasw

    I would have expected the opposite?

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  568. daniel

    if you would expect vcard to have the same access control as pep; you can't do that by changing vcards. but you could only do the conversion if the pep access model is that of vcards (=whitelist)

  569. jonasw

    I thought vcards is open access?

  570. daniel

    s/whitelist/open/ in everything i said

  571. jonasw

    now it makes sense, thanks!

  572. jonasw

    how would a server deal with a client which does both vcard and pep-avatar?

  573. daniel

    that uploads both after each other?

  574. jonasw


  575. daniel

    they would simply override each other

  576. jonasw

    I see

  577. daniel

    it's not ideal but i don't see how that can cause conflict

  578. daniel

    if iq queries are processed in order

  579. daniel

    which they are

  580. jonasw

    I love it :)

  581. jonasw

    we’re working on our vcard impl currently, we might integrate that as well

  582. daniel

    i should say that i didn't come up with that. both prosody and ejabberd have implemenations for that already

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  584. daniel

    minus the presence broadcast thing on prosody

  585. jonasw

    do they advertise the feature already?

  586. daniel


  587. jonasw


  588. daniel

    the presence broadcast thing is essential for the method to work properly though. but should be an easy fix in prosody

  589. jonasw

    it is indeed

  590. jonasw

    the presence broadcast rules of xep-0153 are crazy, I’m happy to see that this might be fixed magically

  591. daniel

    jonasw, crazy because you have to download it first?

  592. jonasw

    yeah, and the interaction with non-153 clients

  593. jonasw

    now I wonder if it should be possible to set the vcard without changing the photo, to be able to modify non-avatar things there.

  594. daniel

    to what end? not triggering a notification in PEP?

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  596. jonasw


  597. jonasw

    nevermind I guess

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  602. zinid

    daniel, thanks a ton for the XEP 🙂

  603. daniel

    zinid, did you write the ejabberd module that does this?

  604. zinid


  605. daniel

    in that case i'm gonna mention you in the acknowledge section of the xep

  606. daniel

    (unless you object to that of course)

  607. zinid

    there is a minor bug though: vcard:x:update is not injected into direct presences

  608. zinid

    no objection of course

  609. sezuan has joined

  610. zinid

    I mean it's injected, but not resent on avatar update (unlike broadcast, which is resent)

  611. daniel

    zinid: oh. I haven't thought of that. That might be difficult...

  612. jonasw

    daniel, I think it’s reasonable to state that clients need to re-send that themselves

  613. jonasw

    they need to handle directed presence manually anyways

  614. zinid

    jonasw, probably a good idea

  615. jonasw

    (and it is sufficient for them to send a blank presence, the vcard thing will be injected)

  616. zinid

    not sure if client authors agree 🙂

  617. jonasw

    I’m a client author

  618. jonasw

    I’m not happy with having to re-send directed presence manually, but I need to do that anyways.

  619. Holger

    So if you publish a PEP avatar you're supposed to resend direct presence?

  620. jonasw

    having to do this for avatar updates is fine.

  621. zinid

    well, you're a special one, you're not afraid of difficulties 🙂

  622. jonasw

    Holger, no?

  623. daniel

    jonasw: yeah maybe. In reality it's probably not gonna be a huge problem

  624. daniel

    How often are you changing your avater

  625. jonasw

    daniel, ack. even if the update doesn’t get through immediately, so what :)

  626. jonasw

    having that written down is good though

  627. daniel

    Holger: not when publishing. But when receiving the notification about it

  628. zinid

    daniel, I know a guy with 15 year old avatar 😀

  629. daniel

    Otherwise it won't work if another client changes that

  630. daniel

    But yeah...

  631. daniel

    That's very very minor

  632. Holger

    It affects MUC right?

  633. jonasw


  634. Holger

    "Look guys my funny new avatar!"

  635. Holger

    But yes compared to today's situation it's minor.

  636. nyco has left

  637. zinid

    yeah, that's how I revealed the bug, hehe

  638. jonasw

    Holger, indeed, good point.

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  642. daniel

    Yeah I'll add it to the xep. It's not terribly complicated to resend directed presences when receiving a pep update *and* the server announces that feature

  643. ralphm has joined

  644. Holger

    Sounds weirdo to me.

  645. jonasw

    my vcard dev also thinks your XEP is great, daniel :)

  646. zinid

    Holger, in order to resent direct presences you need to store them on the server

  647. zinid

    do we want it?

  648. daniel

    Arguably better than tracking directed presences on the server

  649. jonasw

    zinid, don’t you have to do that anyways, because you must send unavailable when the server leaves?

  650. jonasw

    zinid, don’t you have to do that anyways, because you must send unavailable when the client disconnects?

  651. Holger

    zinid: I'm confused, don't we have that in the c2s state?

  652. Holger

    But I must run, BBL.

  653. zinid

    jonasw, no, direct presences are not affected during server broadcasts

  654. sezuan has left

  655. zinid


  656. zinid

    yes, it's resent on unavailable 😉

  657. sezuan has joined

  658. zinid

    but not the original presence, but the broadcasted one

  659. jonasw

    ah I see you rpoint

  660. jonasw

    you’d need to know how to compose the original directed presence

  661. jonasw

    makes sense

  662. zinid


  663. zinid

    they can be different

  664. daniel

    If the general modus operandi is that client developers push responsibility to the server developers and vice versa I'll happily take the responsibility in that case as a client dev

  665. jonasw

    daniel, I don’t see an issue with that, tbh, clients need to manage their directed presence either way.

  666. jonasw

    and they need to re-send their directed presence with vcard-temp too if they care

  667. jonasw

    this is still better

  668. daniel


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  671. zinid

    ah, another question is what to do if presence contains hash already

  672. zinid

    ejabberd currently rewrites it anyway

  673. jonasw

    zinid, if it doesn’t match, somebody made a mistake, and if the server overrides that, that’s probably good

  674. zinid

    but seems like someone doesn't like this, e.g. they don't want to propagate their avatars to mucs

  675. sezuan has left

  676. zinid

    jonasw, yes, but see my next point

  677. sezuan has joined

  678. jonasw

    ah, but then you wouldn’t write a hash in it?

  679. jonasw

    but an empty element?

  680. zinid

    so probably some mechanism to avoid injecting is needed

  681. daniel

    zinid: yeah that's why I said don't override

  682. jonasw

    zinid, maybe only override if clients send <x xmlns="vcard-temp-foobar"/>? that’s how clients signal "I know the vcard protocol, but I don’t know the hash"

  683. daniel

    zinid: however that doesn't work as a security feature. The avater can still be retrieved

  684. zinid

    daniel, I'm fine with not overriding it on server 🙂

  685. jonasw


  686. zinid

    <x xmlns="vcard-temp-foobar"/> means there is no avatar

  687. marc has joined

  688. zinid

    at least from what I rememeber

  689. daniel

    An empty photo means it's empty

  690. daniel

    An empty x means something else. Lol

  691. jonasw


  692. jonasw

    empty x means "I understand vcard, but I don’t know the current hash, don’t mind me"

  693. daniel

    Either way it's probably better to not touch it

  694. jonasw

    while absent x means "I don’t understand vcard-avatar, so neither of you all must publish vcard avatars"

  695. zinid

    on the other hand, there is a situation when a client has uploaded the avatar via vcard, the server transcoded the image (thus new hash) and we have problems here if we don't override

  696. jonasw

    daniel, but then clients would have to fetch the photo to properly join a MUC

  697. jonasw

    zinid, I’d suggest to override whenever there’s an <x/> element which doesn’t indicate absent avatar.

  698. daniel

    jonasw: no. Just don't set it at all

  699. jonasw

    daniel, I don’t think that’s a good idea

  700. jonasw

    or maybe it is

  701. zinid

    jonasw, a lot of stupid clients don't inject anything despite they have avatar, that's the problem...

  702. jonasw

    I’m not sure

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  705. zinid

    that was initial goal of mod_vcard_xupdate actually, it's later I adopted it to new behav

  706. daniel

    Yeah I don't have hard feelings with that either way. Maybe just leave the xep as is for now and see if this creates problems

  707. zinid

    yeah, this is bikeshedding mostly

  708. jonasw


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  711. zinid

    if you don't mind a little more bikeshedding, what I would suggest is to not rewrite the hash if it's empty

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  713. zinid

    so we work-around "transcoding" problem

  714. jonasw

    zinid, I think that’s sane

  715. zinid

    and make crypto paranoics happy

  716. jonasw


  717. zinid

    and regarding "an avatar anyway can be retrieved via vcard direct request": this could be solved by privacy rules, but we deferred them, hehe

  718. daniel

    > if you don't mind a little more bikeshedding, what I would suggest is to not rewrite the hash if it's empty > so we work-around "transcoding" problem An empty photo element?

  719. zinid


  720. zinid

    well, need to re-read xep-153 carefully to remember what empty photo element means

  721. zinid

    so we don't contradict

  722. lovetox

    no avatar published if i correctly remember

  723. jonasw

    zinid, it means "I don’t want to publish an avatar"

  724. jonasw

    or de-publishing essentially

  725. jonasw


  726. daniel

    I don't see the argument for touching the x element at all

  727. daniel

    If it exists

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  729. zinid

    what if the server has changed the avatar, for example png->jpeg or something?

  730. lovetox

    why should he do that?

  731. zinid

    well, yes, that's a separate unrelated story, but anyway

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  734. daniel

    zinid: ok. Fair enough

  735. zinid

    lovetox, because some put webp into avatars 😛

  736. lovetox

    yeah and? why would the server care?

  737. zinid

    lovetox, an admin might care about the users, you know, that can happen

  738. lovetox

    i think this opens a lot of problems

  739. lovetox

    we depend on hash

  740. lovetox

    i upload something, know my hash

  741. lovetox

    afterwards i get something different back

  742. zinid


  743. lovetox

    such a server mod would be bad in my opinion

  744. zinid

    what problems?

  745. sezuan has joined

  746. zinid

    you can receive another hash from another resource for example

  747. zinid

    so a client should be prepared to receive another hash

  748. jonasw has left

  749. jonasw


  750. jonasw

    lovetox, it’s just as if another resource of yours did that

  751. lovetox

    iam if its from another resource

  752. jonasw

    why would you care about the resource? :)

  753. sezuan has left

  754. lovetox

    i dont know, its just weird

  755. zinid

    it's xmpp

  756. lovetox

    makes no sense to me

  757. zinid

    of course it's weird

  758. jonasw

    I find this pretty elegant

  759. lovetox

    and you do this only because of conversations lol

  760. jonasw

    if more things work by doing less, that’s most of the time a good thing

  761. lovetox

    elegant is if clients support more than jpeg and png

  762. lovetox

    elegant would be clients respecting a standard and uploading in a agreed format

  763. lovetox

    this is all BUT elegant

  764. jonasw

    lovetox, except that the agreed-upon format does not cope well with the defined limits in the RFCs

  765. sezuan has joined

  766. lovetox

    i dont really care, i was just arguing that you seriously think thats elegant

  767. jonasw

    I wish we had a way to properly put multiple formats into the avatar node in an XMPPy way

  768. jonasw

    lovetox, I’m not arguing that doing some server-side conversion is particularly elegant

  769. lovetox

    maybe i should start uploading in some even more exotic format, so we can write more server mods

  770. zinid

    we probably need to consider a different format, I don't think this will hurt, because I don't think there are clients not understanding jpeg (i.e. png-only)

  771. jonasw

    I’m arguing that not caring about the /resource of vcard updates is elegant, because you don’t need that extra check.

  772. jonasw

    zinid, except that jpeg sucks

  773. zinid

    jonasw, yes, but png is really huge

  774. jonasw


  775. daniel

    Fwiw Conversations stopped uploading webp

  776. zinid

    so they both suck

  777. jonasw

    zinid, yes

  778. jonasw

    trade-offs all over again

  779. zinid

    daniel, good to know 😛

  780. daniel

    Should we create or own image format?

  781. jonasw

    daniel, like we created our own Markup?

  782. jonasw

    daniel, what does conversations do now?

  783. daniel


  784. daniel


  785. jonasw


  786. daniel


  787. daniel


  788. daniel

    jonasw: don't worry it will still work with your avatar because there is an exception if the image contains transparency

  789. jonasw

    daniel, neat!

  790. jonasw

    so if I want an uncompressed avatar, I just make one pixel with alpha=254 :)

  791. daniel

    It will resize it of course. But yes

  792. daniel

    Or use a different avatar

  793. daniel


  794. jonasw


  795. daniel

    To upload it

  796. zinid

    daniel, muc vcard avatars are left!

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  798. zinid

    daniel, movim did it already 🙂

  799. zinid

    ejabberd supports them since stone age

  800. daniel

    zinid: is there a xep?

  801. zinid

    well, I asked XSF back in the time, they said no xep is needed for this

  802. zinid

    the only problem is how to update the avatar, since a conference doesn't generate presences

  803. zinid

    I mean how to propagate updates

  804. daniel

    'the only problem'

  805. zinid


  806. jonasw

    MIX will fix that ;-)

  807. jonasw

    we should get stickers with that

  808. zinid

    well, I'd really love to see conference avatar in my conversations list instead of a square with 4 squares inside

  809. daniel

    So what does movim do? Just query it opportunisticly on every join?

  810. zinid

    daniel, no, every couple of hours or so 😀

  811. zinid

    what if a presence comes from bare conference jid?

  812. zinid

    would clients get crazy because of this?

  813. jonasw

    I think we should definitely write down a XEP about how to deal with the bare MUC JID

  814. daniel

    Conversations would just ignore it I guess

  815. jonasw

    services are already making use of the bare MUC JID for sending service messages, and having that written down somewhere would be good

  816. jonasw

    I have no idea what aioxmpp would do on a presence from the bare MUC JID.

  817. zinid

    daniel, so we probably can utilize it for avatars dissemination

  818. daniel

    Probably... We can try to implement it next year as a PoC

  819. zinid


  820. daniel

    Proof of concept

  821. daniel

    Proof that it works in quick demo

  822. zinid

    and we prove it to ... ?

  823. zinid

    XSF? 🙂

  824. daniel

    I never personally had the desire for muc avatars but it's easy enough to implement I guess so I'm not opposed

  825. daniel

    Nah the world

  826. daniel

    Or to ourselves

  827. jonasw

    do MUCs have to implement PubSub then, too?

  828. daniel

    I think we are talking about vCard avatars

  829. jonasw

    for now :)

  830. zinid

    and if mucs implement pubsub, why would we need mix? 🙂

  831. zinid

    I'm actually agreed already to implement pubsub on mucs, just not to implement this dredful MIX

  832. daniel

    Well we are now slowly getting to point where we fixed most of the muc bugs so it's about time to replace it with something else

  833. ralphm has joined

  834. zinid

    daniel, another way is to utilize something like if-modified-since in join presence, and later a muc will send presence updates to those clients only

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  840. Holger

    Sorry I'm late to the party; regarding overriding the avatar hash: If you think users might not want to publish the avatar to MUCs, then auto-publishing the PEP avatar as vCard is a problem, no? I mean there's no way to stop the server from injecting the hash after the client published the avatar via PEP, no?

  841. daniel

    yes it doesn't do anything security wise

  842. daniel

    it might stop certain clients from discovering that you have a client

  843. daniel

    but thats not even security by obscurity

  844. daniel

    *that you have an avatar

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  851. zinid

    Holger, but in theory you can restrict your access to vcards via privacy rules (e.g. subscription=none => deny)

  852. daniel

    zinid, but then it doesn't matter what hash you annouce

  853. zinid

    well, you can be identified by the hash 😛

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  855. zinid

    I don't know how the brain of crypto maniacs work, so I just guessing 🙂

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  867. daniel

    https://gultsch.de/files/pep-vcard-conversion.html updated. i included a note that the server should not touch empty photo elemets but override photo with wrong hashes

  868. ralphm has joined

  869. zinid

    fine by me 🙂

  870. zinid


  871. zinid

    when approved, I'll fix that in ejabberd

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  876. daniel

    and prosody needs to do the x_update thing. maybe i'll code that myself at some point

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  879. zinid

    I'm drunk, but I don't find this text clear: > Empty x elements qualified by the 'vcard-temp:x:update' namespace (those without a photo element as child), as well as photo elements with a wrong hash MUST be overwritten.

  880. SamWhited has joined

  881. zinid

    what is the 'wrong hash'? Is empty hash ('') wrong?

  882. zinid

    the example is clear, though

  883. daniel

    do you have a suggestion on how to make this more clear?

  884. daniel

    (even though you are drunk?)

  885. stefandxm has left

  886. daniel

    …as well as photo elements with a non-empty content MUST be overwritten?

  887. zinid

    I would suggest to split the sentence in two short parts, which are clear, like 'A server MUST NOT override presences with empty <photo> element. A server MAY override all other presences', something like that

  888. moparisthebest has joined

  889. daniel

    fair enough

  890. zinid

    not sure whey we want to override presences without <photo/> element though 🙂

  891. zinid

    I just read the XEP-0153 and didn't get what means "a client is not yet ready to advertise an image"

  892. daniel

    sending presence before receiving the iq response for the avatar

  893. zinid


  894. zinid

    good point

  895. zinid

    then it makes sense, yes

  896. daniel

    > To avoid this, services MUST include the hash on behalf of their users in every available presence that does not contain an empty photo element wrapped in an x element qualified by the 'vcard-temp:x:update' namespace. Empty x elements qualified by the 'vcard-temp:x:update' namespace (those without a photo element as child) MUST be overwritten. Presences where the content of the photo element is not empty and not equal to the hash calculated by the service MAY be overwritten.

  897. zinid

    yes, much more clear

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