XSF Discussion - 2018-01-16

  1. marc has left
  2. Ge0rG has left
  3. Ge0rG has left
  4. Ge0rG has left
  5. Ge0rG has left
  6. flo has joined
  7. Ge0rG has left
  8. Ge0rG has left
  9. flo hello is there a way to find out the total amount of active xmpp users worldwide? I know about the prosody monitor https://network.trashserver.net/ but I would like to know if there is any estimation of the deep net...
  10. Dave Cridland has left
  11. Dave Cridland has joined
  12. Dave Cridland has left
  13. Dave Cridland has joined
  14. moparisthebest has joined
  15. flo Mattj could you help with that question?
  16. flo MattJ
  17. Ge0rG has left
  18. Ge0rG has left
  19. Ge0rG has left
  20. Ge0rG has left
  21. moparisthebest has joined
  22. moparisthebest It'd be really hard to do flo , could maybe stalk cert transparency logs until Feb 28th and look for the number of XMPP servers then multiply by a few for users or something
  23. SamWhited has left
  24. ralphm has joined
  25. Zash You can guesstimate the number of servers. Users are harder.
  26. flo moparisthebest "Any list of XMPP servers, clients or libraries will, due to the dynamic and evolving nature of the XMPP market, be out of date almost as soon as it’s published." Maybe it would be worth a study to ask the biggest players for numbers.
  27. Zash Guess a distribution curve and multiply by the number of guesstimated servers
  28. moparisthebest Yea that will tell you how many users are on those servers
  29. Zash There are things like the Debian popcon and such that can provide some numbers
  30. moparisthebest If you want to try the cert transparency logs though you better do it quick the free lunch ends Feb 28th
  31. Zash waitwhat
  32. moparisthebest Zash: that's the go live date for wildcard certs at letsencrypt
  33. moparisthebest Today every xmpp domain you get a cert for is in the log, when *. example.org is issued you just have to guess
  34. Dave Cridland has left
  35. Dave Cridland has joined
  36. Ge0rG has left
  37. Dave Cridland has left
  38. Dave Cridland has joined
  39. Ge0rG has left
  40. hannes has left
  41. hannes has joined
  42. Zash But certs aren't xmpp-specific in any way
  43. moparisthebest But a simple DNS query to check
  44. moparisthebest With any of the certstream projects
  45. Zash you mean srv records? those aren't required?
  46. SamWhited has left
  47. lskdjf has joined
  48. Zash might as well go for one of those entire internet port scans
  49. Ge0rG has left
  50. Ge0rG has left
  51. moparisthebest Yes srv and or connecting to 5222 you'd catch a good number
  52. moparisthebest Can't tell how many domains though, and useless for ipv6
  53. flo You would catch whatsapp on port 5222 too... I'm more interested in the numbers of alternative xmpp clients
  54. Ge0rG has left
  55. moparisthebest flo: oh well for that just search GitHub
  56. Ge0rG has left
  57. Dave Cridland has left
  58. Dave Cridland has joined
  59. flo moparisthebest‎ how does github tell me something about the userbase of lets say conversations?
  60. moparisthebest flo: sorry what are you after, number of users, number of clients, or numbers of users per client?
  61. moparisthebest Because those are all different things
  62. flo well users would be the most interesting thing, but the hardest to find out...
  63. flo just look at the prosody monitor, something is still better than nothing
  64. flo has left
  65. Ge0rG has left
  66. Ge0rG has left
  67. Ge0rG has left
  68. Ge0rG has left
  69. Dave Cridland has left
  70. Dave Cridland has joined
  71. Dave Cridland has left
  72. Dave Cridland has joined
  73. vanitasvitae has left
  74. Ge0rG has left
  75. Ge0rG has left
  76. jere has joined
  77. @Alacer has left
  78. @Alacer has joined
  79. blabla has joined
  80. blabla has left
  81. hannes has joined
  82. blabla has joined
  83. Ge0rG has left
  84. Ge0rG has left
  85. Dave Cridland has left
  86. Dave Cridland has joined
  87. Dave Cridland has left
  88. Dave Cridland has joined
  89. moparisthebest https://www.projectveritas.com/2018/01/15/hidden-camera-hundreds-of-twitter-employees-paid-to-view-everything-you-post-online-including-private-sex-messages/
  90. moparisthebest Is this is what passes for shocking news
  91. moparisthebest "Twitter has... What you send to Twitter"
  92. Ge0rG has left
  93. moparisthebest Then XMPP has no chance on the "it's better for privacy" front
  94. Ge0rG has left
  95. jere has joined
  96. SamWhited has joined
  97. SamWhited has joined
  98. Ge0rG has left
  99. Ge0rG has left
  100. Dave Cridland has left
  101. Dave Cridland has joined
  102. Dave Cridland has left
  103. Dave Cridland has joined
  104. uc has joined
  105. jere has joined
  106. Ge0rG has left
  107. Ge0rG has left
  108. Steve Kille has joined
  109. Ge0rG has left
  110. Ge0rG has left
  111. Dave Cridland has left
  112. Dave Cridland has joined
  113. moparisthebest has joined
  114. Ge0rG has left
  115. Ge0rG has left
  116. Steve Kille has left
  117. Ge0rG has left
  118. Ge0rG has left
  119. Dave Cridland has left
  120. Dave Cridland has joined
  121. Dave Cridland has left
  122. Dave Cridland has joined
  123. Dave Cridland has left
  124. Dave Cridland has joined
  125. Ge0rG has left
  126. Dave Cridland has left
  127. Dave Cridland has joined
  128. Steve Kille has joined
  129. Ge0rG has left
  130. Ge0rG has left
  131. Ge0rG has left
  132. Steve Kille has left
  133. Ge0rG has left
  134. Zash has left
  135. Ge0rG has left
  136. Dave Cridland has left
  137. Dave Cridland has joined
  138. Dave Cridland has left
  139. Dave Cridland has joined
  140. Anu has joined
  141. Dave Cridland has left
  142. Dave Cridland has joined
  143. Ge0rG has left
  144. Ge0rG has left
  145. Anu has left
  146. suzyo has joined
  147. Ge0rG has left
  148. Ge0rG has left
  149. Ge0rG has left
  150. Dave Cridland has left
  151. Dave Cridland has joined
  152. Dave Cridland has left
  153. Dave Cridland has joined
  154. Ge0rG has left
  155. Dave Cridland has left
  156. Dave Cridland has joined
  157. Dave Cridland has left
  158. Dave Cridland has joined
  159. Ge0rG has left
  160. Ge0rG has left
  161. tux has left
  162. tux has joined
  163. jere has joined
  164. Ge0rG has left
  165. Ge0rG has left
  166. Dave Cridland has left
  167. Dave Cridland has joined
  168. Dave Cridland has left
  169. Dave Cridland has joined
  170. Guus has left
  171. Guus has joined
  172. Ge0rG has left
  173. Ge0rG has left
  174. lumi has joined
  175. efrit has left
  176. Guus has left
  177. Guus has joined
  178. Ge0rG has left
  179. efrit has joined
  180. Ge0rG has left
  181. Dave Cridland has left
  182. Dave Cridland has joined
  183. Ge0rG has left
  184. zinid For the majority it is not better, everyone supports e2ee already
  185. Ge0rG has left
  186. Steve Kille has joined
  187. waqas has joined
  188. waqas has left
  189. waqas has joined
  190. marc has joined
  191. tux has left
  192. tux has joined
  193. moparisthebest has joined
  194. Ge0rG has left
  195. Ge0rG has left
  196. Dave Cridland has left
  197. Dave Cridland has joined
  198. Dave Cridland has left
  199. Dave Cridland has joined
  200. Ge0rG has left
  201. Ge0rG has left
  202. Guus has left
  203. Guus has joined
  204. Guus has left
  205. marc has left
  206. Guus has joined
  207. Ge0rG has left
  208. @Alacer has left
  209. waqas has left
  210. @Alacer has joined
  211. Dave Cridland has left
  212. Dave Cridland has joined
  213. Dave Cridland has left
  214. Dave Cridland has joined
  215. @Alacer has left
  216. Ge0rG has left
  217. Ge0rG has left
  218. Ge0rG has left
  219. efrit has left
  220. efrit has joined
  221. Dave Cridland has left
  222. Dave Cridland has joined
  223. Dave Cridland has left
  224. Dave Cridland has joined
  225. Ge0rG has left
  226. Steve Kille has left
  227. Ge0rG has left
  228. la|r|ma has joined
  229. Ge0rG has left
  230. hannes has joined
  231. goffi has joined
  232. Dave Cridland has left
  233. Dave Cridland has joined
  234. Dave Cridland has left
  235. Dave Cridland has joined
  236. Ge0rG has left
  237. hannes has joined
  238. Ge0rG has left
  239. Alex has joined
  240. suzyo has joined
  241. ralphm has joined
  242. zinid has left
  243. Ge0rG has left
  244. hannes has joined
  245. ralphm has joined
  246. marc has left
  247. hannes has joined
  248. jere has joined
  249. Ge0rG has left
  250. Ge0rG has left
  251. Martin has joined
  252. efrit has left
  253. goffi has left
  254. daniel has left
  255. goffi has joined
  256. lskdjf has joined
  257. Kev has joined
  258. Ge0rG has left
  259. Ge0rG has left
  260. Alex has left
  261. Alex has joined
  262. Dave Cridland has left
  263. Dave Cridland has joined
  264. Dave Cridland has left
  265. Dave Cridland has joined
  266. Ge0rG has left
  267. Ge0rG has left
  268. SouL has left
  269. SouL has joined
  270. marc has joined
  271. @Alacer has joined
  272. ralphm has joined
  273. Ge0rG has left
  274. Ge0rG has left
  275. lskdjf has joined
  276. ralphm has left
  277. Syndace has joined
  278. Syndace has joined
  279. @Alacer has left
  280. @Alacer has joined
  281. Dave Cridland has left
  282. Dave Cridland has joined
  283. Ge0rG has left
  284. Ge0rG has left
  285. @Alacer has left
  286. tux has left
  287. jubalh has joined
  288. ralphm has left
  289. tux has joined
  290. la|r|ma has left
  291. Ge0rG has left
  292. Ge0rG has left
  293. marc has left
  294. Martin has left
  295. la|r|ma has left
  296. la|r|ma has joined
  297. Dave Cridland has left
  298. Dave Cridland has joined
  299. Dave Cridland has left
  300. Dave Cridland has joined
  301. Martin has joined
  302. Ge0rG has left
  303. Dave Cridland has left
  304. Dave Cridland has joined
  305. Ge0rG has left
  306. marc has joined
  307. Dave Cridland has left
  308. Dave Cridland has joined
  309. zinid has left
  310. mimi89999 has joined
  311. Dave Cridland has left
  312. Dave Cridland has joined
  313. Dave Cridland has left
  314. @Alacer has joined
  315. Dave Cridland has joined
  316. jere has joined
  317. Ge0rG has left
  318. @Alacer has left
  319. Ge0rG has left
  320. Alex has left
  321. Alex has joined
  322. @Alacer has joined
  323. moparisthebest has joined
  324. ralphm has left
  325. moparisthebest has joined
  326. Ge0rG has left
  327. tux has joined
  328. jere has joined
  329. Ge0rG has left
  330. Dave Cridland has left
  331. Dave Cridland has joined
  332. Ge0rG has left
  333. Ge0rG has left
  334. moparisthebest has joined
  335. Alex has left
  336. moparisthebest has joined
  337. intosi has joined
  338. Ge0rG has left
  339. tux has joined
  340. zinid has left
  341. Ge0rG has left
  342. jjrh has left
  343. zinid has left
  344. nyco has left
  345. lskdjf has joined
  346. tux has left
  347. tux has joined
  348. tux has joined
  349. lskdjf has joined
  350. jjrh has left
  351. jjrh has left
  352. jjrh has left
  353. Dave Cridland has left
  354. Dave Cridland has left
  355. Ge0rG has left
  356. jjrh has left
  357. daniel has left
  358. hannes has joined
  359. zinid has left
  360. @Alacer has left
  361. @Alacer has joined
  362. Ge0rG has left
  363. jjrh has left
  364. @Alacer has left
  365. jjrh has left
  366. Ge0rG has left
  367. Ge0rG has left
  368. ralphm has left
  369. tux has left
  370. Alex has left
  371. Ge0rG has left
  372. Ge0rG has left
  373. Alex has joined
  374. Ge0rG has left
  375. Dave Cridland has left
  376. Dave Cridland has left
  377. jubalh has left
  378. suzyo has joined
  379. @Alacer has joined
  380. Martin has left
  381. Ge0rG has left
  382. ralphm has left
  383. @Alacer has left
  384. @Alacer has joined
  385. Ge0rG has left
  386. @Alacer has left
  387. @Alacer has joined
  388. Alex has left
  389. Ge0rG has left
  390. @Alacer has left
  391. Ge0rG has left
  392. Dave Cridland has left
  393. daniel has left
  394. vanitasvitae has left
  395. moparisthebest has joined
  396. Ge0rG has left
  397. moparisthebest has joined
  398. tux has left
  399. tux has left
  400. tux has joined
  401. nyco has left
  402. jjrh has left
  403. jjrh has left
  404. Ge0rG has left
  405. Ge0rG has left
  406. lumi has left
  407. Ge0rG has left
  408. Dave Cridland has left
  409. Dave Cridland has left
  410. vanitasvitae has left
  411. moparisthebest has left
  412. moparisthebest has joined
  413. moparisthebest has left
  414. moparisthebest has joined
  415. moparisthebest has left
  416. moparisthebest has joined
  417. moparisthebest has joined
  418. moparisthebest has left
  419. moparisthebest has joined
  420. moparisthebest has left
  421. moparisthebest has joined
  422. moparisthebest has left
  423. moparisthebest has joined
  424. moparisthebest has left
  425. moparisthebest has joined
  426. moparisthebest has joined
  427. moparisthebest has joined
  428. moparisthebest has joined
  429. moparisthebest has joined
  430. moparisthebest has joined
  431. moparisthebest has joined
  432. moparisthebest has joined
  433. moparisthebest has joined
  434. moparisthebest has joined
  435. moparisthebest has left
  436. vanitasvitae has left
  437. Ge0rG has left
  438. hannes has left
  439. Ge0rG has left
  440. Steve Kille has joined
  441. Guus has joined
  442. Guus has joined
  443. Guus has joined
  444. Alex has joined
  445. Ge0rG has left
  446. suzyo has joined
  447. Alex lots of SPAM again the last 2 days :(
  448. Guus has left
  449. edhelas I'm planning to move to Matrix, less spam there
  450. jonasw http://www.managingcommunities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/not-sure-if-trolling.jpg "not sure if trolling or being serious"
  451. Ge0rG has left
  452. suzyo has joined
  453. daniel has left
  454. jubalh has joined
  455. Ge0rG has left
  456. zinid has left
  457. efrit has joined
  458. Ge0rG has left
  459. Ge0rG has left
  460. hannes has joined
  461. vanitasvitae has joined
  462. vanitasvitae has joined
  463. SamWhited has left
  464. SamWhited has joined
  465. Zash has left
  466. Ge0rG has left
  467. Martin has joined
  468. Ge0rG has left
  469. Steve Kille has left
  470. jjrh has left
  471. Ge0rG has left
  472. tux has left
  473. jjrh has left
  474. la|r|ma has left
  475. jjrh has left
  476. daniel has left
  477. tux has left
  478. tux has joined
  479. Kev has left
  480. Kev has joined
  481. efrit has left
  482. vanitasvitae has joined
  483. Ge0rG has left
  484. lumi has joined
  485. nyco has left
  486. zinid has left
  487. Ge0rG has left
  488. daniel has left
  489. pep. has joined
  490. zinid has left
  491. Ge0rG has left
  492. daniel has left
  493. suzyo has joined
  494. suzyo has joined
  495. vanitasvitae has left
  496. tux has left
  497. Dave Cridland has left
  498. Martin has left
  499. Dave Cridland has left
  500. Ge0rG has left
  501. Dave Cridland has left
  502. Martin has joined
  503. Ge0rG has left
  504. daniel has left
  505. blabla has left
  506. Dave Cridland has left
  507. Dave Cridland has left
  508. Ge0rG has left
  509. Dave Cridland has left
  510. Ge0rG has left
  511. jjrh has left
  512. suzyo has joined
  513. suzyo has joined
  514. jjrh has left
  515. jjrh has left
  516. jubalh has left
  517. Kev has left
  518. jjrh has left
  519. Kev has joined
  520. jjrh has left
  521. intosi has left
  522. Ge0rG has left
  523. jubalh has left
  524. jjrh has left
  525. suzyo has joined
  526. Ge0rG has left
  527. Kev has left
  528. suzyo has joined
  529. Steve Kille has left
  530. jjrh has left
  531. Steve Kille has joined
  532. hannes has left
  533. hannes has joined
  534. Ge0rG has left
  535. Ge0rG has left
  536. Dave Cridland has left
  537. Dave Cridland has left
  538. Dave Cridland has left
  539. blabla has left
  540. Martin has left
  541. jjrh has left
  542. jjrh has left
  543. Ge0rG has left
  544. Ge0rG has left
  545. Kev has joined
  546. jjrh has left
  547. ralphm has left
  548. jjrh has left
  549. blabla has joined
  550. peter has joined
  551. daniel has left
  552. daniel has joined
  553. Ge0rG has left
  554. jjrh has left
  555. Dave Cridland has left
  556. moparisthebest well zinid privacy and e2ee overlap a bit but it's not the whole story, no commercial walled gardens offer the kind of privacy xmpp does
  557. moparisthebest my point was if the average user is surprised that twitter has what they send to twitter, they have no concept of the term privacy and selling xmpp to them based on that is impossible
  558. Ge0rG has left
  559. moparisthebest the less nice way to put it is you'd have to sell xmpp to those morons by saying it has prettier stickers
  560. jjrh has left
  561. Ge0rG has left
  562. Ge0rG has left
  563. jjrh has left
  564. Ge0rG has left
  565. Alex has left
  566. jjrh has left
  567. Alex has joined
  568. lskdjf has joined
  569. la|r|ma has joined
  570. Kev It's hard to imagine why we'd have a hard time selling XMPP to anyone, if we consider people who like prettiness to be morons.
  571. intosi has joined
  572. Ge0rG has left
  573. vanitasvitae My Grandmother recently got an iPad for christmas. She had no experience with computers before and hasn't even used a typewriter once in her life (neither have I but thats not the point :D). I did not even think about installing her an XMPP client, because there is *no* simple to use client that I know of (let alone for iOS).
  574. daniel has left
  575. daniel has joined
  576. Kev I kinda think Swift is as simple as it can sensibly be, for the very basic cases, but certainly the more complex stuff isn't as straightforward as it could be.
  577. daniel has left
  578. daniel has joined
  579. moparisthebest well conversations is simple and pretty, but if you are trying to sell it to someone over whatsapp, I think all I can come up with immediatly is 'privacy' and for morons who are surprised twitter has what they send them, that's a non-argument
  580. vanitasvitae Originally my brother installed her Facetime, but then she couldn't call me, so I installed her Wire instead. Even Wires interface is too complicated (too many buttons and thingies to accidentally tap on). In the end we stayed with Wire, but my brother put the ipad in "guided access" (he basically blocked away many buttons and prevented wire from being closed).
  581. vanitasvitae I havent used swift, so I cannot tell, but conversations is certainly *not* easy to use unfortunately
  582. vanitasvitae at least in my opinion.
  583. Dave Cridland has left
  584. moparisthebest why not? my 5yo uses it to message grandma
  585. Dave Cridland has left
  586. moparisthebest she can't even fully read, just simple words
  587. Kev Swift's certainly straightforward enough for my parents, but they can use a web browser and the such too, so that's not as extreme.
  588. Kev Compared with relatives who're unable to work a phone.
  589. daniel Probably depends on the grandma. I wasn't able to teach my grandma to use a feature phone
  590. vanitasvitae moparisthebest, fair enough, most features of conversations are hidden away in menus, so mistake clicks are not made so easily
  591. daniel But then again I can't use Instagram
  592. vanitasvitae still, no encryption by default (I know we are getting there), and for example the green indicator thing doubling up as status indicator (if configured so) and image send button is confusing for starters
  593. daniel And I don't really want to learn it either because that's not my generation
  594. Kev You're too young to instagram?
  595. moparisthebest those users don't need to worry about status ?
  596. moparisthebest (no one really *needs* to from conversations honestly)
  597. Ge0rG has left
  598. Kev Not that I think instagram's the most enriching thing in the world, but ... yeah.
  599. Alex has left
  600. daniel It has a very confusing interface...
  601. vanitasvitae moparisthebest, sure I'm nitpicking here. My point is, that XMPP could still be *even* simpler.
  602. daniel Kev: I was thinking I'm too old? But maybe I'm too young...
  603. moparisthebest vanitasvitae, does conversations even show status without fiddling in advanced options? I didn't think it did
  604. Kev daniel: I think you're younger than me, and a lot of my friends use it (and going down from my age to 25 or so - I don't have many friends below that).
  605. vanitasvitae sure it doesn't point taken :)
  606. Kev But I think we might be digressing :)
  607. Kev As an aside, I think status needs to be seriously rethought and simplified at the protocol level - at least by convention.
  608. Dave Cridland has left
  609. daniel Kev: maybe it's different in the UK? I dont know a single person who actually uses it on a regular basis. I always assumed it was a generation thing. But maybe it's a culture thing
  610. vanitasvitae moparisthebest, some time ago I installed conversations on my fathers phone. It was a hassle to explain OMEMO fingerprints to him.
  611. Kev It could be regional. Back in the day, whether you were MSN/ICQ/Y! etc. was heavily influenced by region.
  612. moparisthebest oh I agree there vanitasvitae , I installed conversations on my mom's phone , trusted my fingerprints, and didn't mention omemo :)
  613. Kev vanitasvitae: I'm not convinced that e2e for all is actually the right thing to do.
  614. Kev Because in order for e2e to be meaningful there are some slightly tricky things that you *have* to deal with, or else have a central entity with too much control.
  615. daniel vanitasvitae: why did you even try to? Leave it in BTBV mode and don't bother with verification
  616. moparisthebest my 5yo doesn't know about omemo either, it just works
  617. vanitasvitae Try to explain him, that some times (when I reinstalled conversations), the fingerprint would change, and what that means
  618. vanitasvitae daniel, that was back, when BTBV didnt exist
  619. vanitasvitae I'm a long time user lol
  620. Link Mauve daniel, how do you enable that btw?
  621. moparisthebest I am convinced XMPP is the *best* (or only) choice for safely creating children's accounts :) https://burtrum.org/kids_firewall.pfw.txt
  622. vanitasvitae Link Mauve, just dont scan somebodies fingerprint :D
  623. Dave Cridland has left
  624. Link Mauve Ok, but you still have to select it in the dropdown (?) menu, right?
  625. Ge0rG has left
  626. vanitasvitae I think no
  627. vanitasvitae but daniel is probably the better one to ask :D
  628. moparisthebest if you mean turn omemo on, yes you still have to do that
  629. moparisthebest (until feb or something? he has a plan to make it default)
  630. daniel Link Mauve: enable BTBV? That's enabled by default. You can disable it in the expert settings
  631. Link Mauve Ok, my parents definitely didn’t do that. :)
  632. Link Mauve I just enabled OMEMO for them between them and with my sister, without saying anything special about it.
  633. jubalh has joined
  634. jonasw I disabled OMEMO everywhere because the interop with non-OMEMO clients on the same account is terrible.
  635. jonasw (and the pidgin-omemo-plugins mess my pidgin up badly, for some reason)
  636. Link Mauve I didn’t enable it with me, because I don’t use it. :p
  637. Link Mauve But they all use Conversations, and some use Dino, so that’s fine.
  638. uc has left
  639. uc has joined
  640. Ge0rG has left
  641. intosi has left
  642. Ge0rG has left
  643. vanitasvitae I would switch from gajim to dino as soon as they implement tray icon support, so that the app keeps running in the background
  644. Steve Kille has left
  645. tux has joined
  646. uc has joined
  647. Ge0rG has left
  648. Guus has left
  649. Ge0rG has left
  650. suzyo has joined
  651. suzyo has joined
  652. suzyo has joined
  653. Guus has left
  654. Ge0rG has left
  655. moparisthebest ha I feel like that's all that is discussed in the dino muc nowadays
  656. moparisthebest the 'one true DE Gnome' dropped systray support so all other DEs should drop it, or something
  657. moparisthebest I disagree, but meh
  658. SamWhited I don't think it was a GNOME thing, I think the Freedesktop spec dropped it, IIRC
  659. SamWhited GNOME and many other DEs follow that
  660. moparisthebest gnome is the only one I know of without a systray
  661. SamWhited It moves faster than others, yes
  662. moparisthebest also iirc Link Mauve said it won't work in wayland either
  663. Link Mauve moparisthebest, my DE also doesn’t have a systray.
  664. Link Mauve I haven’t had one even when I was still on X11.
  665. mathieui I don’t have a systray either
  666. SamWhited Neither does mine (also on X11), although that might not matter much since I'm in a weird MATE/i3 mix and it's pretty heavily customized
  667. Link Mauve moparisthebest, KDE and Unity were the ones who wrote a specification (hosted at fd.o) to support systray on non-X11, but with Unity moving to GNOME I’m not sure where that went.
  668. moparisthebest leave my KDE alone kthx :P
  669. Link Mauve Hmm?
  670. moparisthebest I have been meaning to try something tiling though, maybe i3
  671. moparisthebest (I was just joking around, that I want to keep my systray in KDE)
  672. SamWhited I like i3 a lot, but I've also heard good things about "awesome" (I think that's what it's called)
  673. SamWhited But i3 is firmly in the "good enough" category for me, so I haven't tried anything else
  674. moparisthebest that's how I am with KDE, started with it in 2005ish and just could never switch to anything else
  675. Ge0rG has left
  676. Link Mauve “20:31:17 moparisthebest> (I was just joking around, that I want to keep my systray in KDE)”, if you read what I said again, that’s exactly what I said they are doing. :p
  677. SouL moparisthebest, +1
  678. jonasw SamWhited, if you like i3, awesome isn’t for you :)
  679. jonasw (I say that as a long-time awesome user who switched to i3)
  680. jonasw (because i3 had the single feature I always missed from awesome)
  681. SouL Which is? :)
  682. jonasw SouL, more freely tiling windows. awesome has rather fixed layouts
  683. Anu has joined
  684. daniel has left
  685. Zash Having workspaces switchable independencly on each monitor is pretty nice
  686. jonasw Zash, yeah, that too
  687. SamWhited My only real problem with i3 is that I haven't found a good way to swap easily between the 1080p screen on my laptop and a 4k external monitor
  688. SamWhited (although luckily the only external monitor I use right now is also 1080p, so it stopped being a problem)
  689. SamWhited has left
  690. Zash Swap how?
  691. Ge0rG has left
  692. SamWhited pluging in a 4k monitor everything on it is tiny, if I make it bigger when I unplug it the bar eats half my screen
  693. daniel has left
  694. SamWhited has left
  695. SamWhited has joined
  696. Ge0rG has left
  697. Kev has left
  698. SamWhited has left
  699. SamWhited has joined
  700. la|r|ma has left
  701. Guus has left
  702. jonasw hm, I have a similar issue with my 3k notebook screen and the 19 inch 1280×1024 external one. I use a font which is rather readable even on small sizes (one of those <http://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/>)
  703. la|r|ma has left
  704. la|r|ma has left
  705. daniel has left
  706. la|r|ma has left
  707. la|r|ma has left
  708. la|r|ma has left
  709. la|r|ma has left
  710. la|r|ma has left
  711. Ge0rG has left
  712. la|r|ma has left
  713. Anu has left
  714. la|r|ma has left
  715. SamWhited has joined
  716. SamWhited has joined
  717. la|r|ma has left
  718. Guus has left
  719. la|r|ma has left
  720. la|r|ma has left
  721. la|r|ma has left
  722. la|r|ma has left
  723. mimi89999 has left
  724. la|r|ma has left
  725. la|r|ma has left
  726. la|r|ma has left
  727. bra has joined
  728. Ge0rG has left
  729. la|r|ma has left
  730. ralphm has joined
  731. la|r|ma has left
  732. la|r|ma has left
  733. la|r|ma has left
  734. la|r|ma has left
  735. la|r|ma has left
  736. la|r|ma has left
  737. la|r|ma has left
  738. la|r|ma has left
  739. la|r|ma has left
  740. la|r|ma has left
  741. Ge0rG has left
  742. la|r|ma has left
  743. la|r|ma has left
  744. la|r|ma has left
  745. winfried has left
  746. debacle has joined
  747. Ge0rG has left
  748. ralphm has joined
  749. la|r|ma has joined
  750. blabla has left
  751. debacle has joined
  752. zinid has left
  753. Ge0rG has left
  754. jonasw has left
  755. goffi has left
  756. lovetox has joined
  757. marc has left
  758. SamWhited has left
  759. efrit has joined
  760. Ge0rG has left
  761. suzyo has left
  762. ralphm has joined
  763. matlag has left
  764. Ge0rG has left
  765. efrit has left
  766. blabla has left
  767. moparisthebest has left
  768. SamWhited has left
  769. Ge0rG has left
  770. Ge0rG has joined
  771. lskdjf has left
  772. SouL has joined
  773. bra has left
  774. bra has joined
  775. SouL has joined
  776. jubalh has joined
  777. Ge0rG has left
  778. Kev has joined
  779. lovetox has left
  780. intosi has joined
  781. Kev has left
  782. jubalh has left
  783. jubalh has joined
  784. SamWhited has joined
  785. Kev has joined
  786. Kev has left
  787. Steve Kille has joined
  788. Ge0rG has left
  789. SamWhited has joined
  790. Dave Cridland has left
  791. Ge0rG has left
  792. intosi has left
  793. debacle has joined
  794. Ge0rG has left
  795. Dave Cridland has left
  796. Ge0rG has left
  797. suzyo has joined
  798. jubalh has left
  799. daniel has left
  800. tux has left
  801. matlag has left
  802. SouL has joined
  803. SouL has joined
  804. suzyo has joined
  805. Ge0rG has left
  806. suzyo has joined
  807. SamWhited has left
  808. lumi has left
  809. tux has left
  810. winfried has joined
  811. Dave Cridland has left
  812. Ge0rG has left
  813. Dave Cridland has left
  814. debacle has joined
  815. SamWhited has joined