XSF Discussion - 2018-01-16

  1. marc has left

  2. Ge0rG has left

  3. Ge0rG has left

  4. Ge0rG has left

  5. Ge0rG has left

  6. flo has joined

  7. Ge0rG has left

  8. Ge0rG has left

  9. flo

    hello is there a way to find out the total amount of active xmpp users worldwide? I know about the prosody monitor https://network.trashserver.net/ but I would like to know if there is any estimation of the deep net...

  10. Dave Cridland has left

  11. Dave Cridland has joined

  12. Dave Cridland has left

  13. Dave Cridland has joined

  14. moparisthebest has joined

  15. flo

    Mattj could you help with that question?

  16. flo


  17. Ge0rG has left

  18. Ge0rG has left

  19. Ge0rG has left

  20. Ge0rG has left

  21. moparisthebest has joined

  22. moparisthebest

    It'd be really hard to do flo , could maybe stalk cert transparency logs until Feb 28th and look for the number of XMPP servers then multiply by a few for users or something

  23. SamWhited has left

  24. ralphm has joined

  25. Zash

    You can guesstimate the number of servers. Users are harder.

  26. flo

    moparisthebest "Any list of XMPP servers, clients or libraries will, due to the dynamic and evolving nature of the XMPP market, be out of date almost as soon as it’s published." Maybe it would be worth a study to ask the biggest players for numbers.

  27. Zash

    Guess a distribution curve and multiply by the number of guesstimated servers

  28. moparisthebest

    Yea that will tell you how many users are on those servers

  29. Zash

    There are things like the Debian popcon and such that can provide some numbers

  30. moparisthebest

    If you want to try the cert transparency logs though you better do it quick the free lunch ends Feb 28th

  31. Zash


  32. moparisthebest

    Zash: that's the go live date for wildcard certs at letsencrypt

  33. moparisthebest

    Today every xmpp domain you get a cert for is in the log, when *. example.org is issued you just have to guess

  34. Dave Cridland has left

  35. Dave Cridland has joined

  36. Ge0rG has left

  37. Dave Cridland has left

  38. Dave Cridland has joined

  39. Ge0rG has left

  40. hannes has left

  41. hannes has joined

  42. Zash

    But certs aren't xmpp-specific in any way

  43. moparisthebest

    But a simple DNS query to check

  44. moparisthebest

    With any of the certstream projects

  45. Zash

    you mean srv records? those aren't required?

  46. SamWhited has left

  47. lskdjf has joined

  48. Zash

    might as well go for one of those entire internet port scans

  49. Ge0rG has left

  50. Ge0rG has left

  51. moparisthebest

    Yes srv and or connecting to 5222 you'd catch a good number

  52. moparisthebest

    Can't tell how many domains though, and useless for ipv6

  53. flo

    You would catch whatsapp on port 5222 too... I'm more interested in the numbers of alternative xmpp clients

  54. Ge0rG has left

  55. moparisthebest

    flo: oh well for that just search GitHub

  56. Ge0rG has left

  57. Dave Cridland has left

  58. Dave Cridland has joined

  59. flo

    moparisthebest‎ how does github tell me something about the userbase of lets say conversations?

  60. moparisthebest

    flo: sorry what are you after, number of users, number of clients, or numbers of users per client?

  61. moparisthebest

    Because those are all different things

  62. flo

    well users would be the most interesting thing, but the hardest to find out...

  63. flo

    just look at the prosody monitor, something is still better than nothing

  64. flo has left

  65. Ge0rG has left

  66. Ge0rG has left

  67. Ge0rG has left

  68. Ge0rG has left

  69. Dave Cridland has left

  70. Dave Cridland has joined

  71. Dave Cridland has left

  72. Dave Cridland has joined

  73. vanitasvitae has left

  74. Ge0rG has left

  75. Ge0rG has left

  76. jere has joined

  77. @Alacer has left

  78. @Alacer has joined

  79. blabla has joined

  80. blabla has left

  81. hannes has joined

  82. blabla has joined

  83. Ge0rG has left

  84. Ge0rG has left

  85. Dave Cridland has left

  86. Dave Cridland has joined

  87. Dave Cridland has left

  88. Dave Cridland has joined

  89. moparisthebest


  90. moparisthebest

    Is this is what passes for shocking news

  91. moparisthebest

    "Twitter has... What you send to Twitter"

  92. Ge0rG has left

  93. moparisthebest

    Then XMPP has no chance on the "it's better for privacy" front

  94. Ge0rG has left

  95. jere has joined

  96. SamWhited has joined

  97. SamWhited has joined

  98. Ge0rG has left

  99. Ge0rG has left

  100. Dave Cridland has left

  101. Dave Cridland has joined

  102. Dave Cridland has left

  103. Dave Cridland has joined

  104. uc has joined

  105. jere has joined

  106. Ge0rG has left

  107. Ge0rG has left

  108. Steve Kille has joined

  109. Ge0rG has left

  110. Ge0rG has left

  111. Dave Cridland has left

  112. Dave Cridland has joined

  113. moparisthebest has joined

  114. Ge0rG has left

  115. Ge0rG has left

  116. Steve Kille has left

  117. Ge0rG has left

  118. Ge0rG has left

  119. Dave Cridland has left

  120. Dave Cridland has joined

  121. Dave Cridland has left

  122. Dave Cridland has joined

  123. Dave Cridland has left

  124. Dave Cridland has joined

  125. Ge0rG has left

  126. Dave Cridland has left

  127. Dave Cridland has joined

  128. Steve Kille has joined

  129. Ge0rG has left

  130. Ge0rG has left

  131. Ge0rG has left

  132. Steve Kille has left

  133. Ge0rG has left

  134. Zash has left

  135. Ge0rG has left

  136. Dave Cridland has left

  137. Dave Cridland has joined

  138. Dave Cridland has left

  139. Dave Cridland has joined

  140. Anu has joined

  141. Dave Cridland has left

  142. Dave Cridland has joined

  143. Ge0rG has left

  144. Ge0rG has left

  145. Anu has left

  146. suzyo has joined

  147. Ge0rG has left

  148. Ge0rG has left

  149. Ge0rG has left

  150. Dave Cridland has left

  151. Dave Cridland has joined

  152. Dave Cridland has left

  153. Dave Cridland has joined

  154. Ge0rG has left

  155. Dave Cridland has left

  156. Dave Cridland has joined

  157. Dave Cridland has left

  158. Dave Cridland has joined

  159. Ge0rG has left

  160. Ge0rG has left

  161. tux has left

  162. tux has joined

  163. jere has joined

  164. Ge0rG has left

  165. Ge0rG has left

  166. Dave Cridland has left

  167. Dave Cridland has joined

  168. Dave Cridland has left

  169. Dave Cridland has joined

  170. Guus has left

  171. Guus has joined

  172. Ge0rG has left

  173. Ge0rG has left

  174. lumi has joined

  175. efrit has left

  176. Guus has left

  177. Guus has joined

  178. Ge0rG has left

  179. efrit has joined

  180. Ge0rG has left

  181. Dave Cridland has left

  182. Dave Cridland has joined

  183. Ge0rG has left

  184. zinid

    For the majority it is not better, everyone supports e2ee already

  185. Ge0rG has left

  186. Steve Kille has joined

  187. waqas has joined

  188. waqas has left

  189. waqas has joined

  190. marc has joined

  191. tux has left

  192. tux has joined

  193. moparisthebest has joined

  194. Ge0rG has left

  195. Ge0rG has left

  196. Dave Cridland has left

  197. Dave Cridland has joined

  198. Dave Cridland has left

  199. Dave Cridland has joined

  200. Ge0rG has left

  201. Ge0rG has left

  202. Guus has left

  203. Guus has joined

  204. Guus has left

  205. marc has left

  206. Guus has joined

  207. Ge0rG has left

  208. @Alacer has left

  209. waqas has left

  210. @Alacer has joined

  211. Dave Cridland has left

  212. Dave Cridland has joined

  213. Dave Cridland has left

  214. Dave Cridland has joined

  215. @Alacer has left

  216. Ge0rG has left

  217. Ge0rG has left

  218. Ge0rG has left

  219. efrit has left

  220. efrit has joined

  221. Dave Cridland has left

  222. Dave Cridland has joined

  223. Dave Cridland has left

  224. Dave Cridland has joined

  225. Ge0rG has left

  226. Steve Kille has left

  227. Ge0rG has left

  228. la|r|ma has joined

  229. Ge0rG has left

  230. hannes has joined

  231. goffi has joined

  232. Dave Cridland has left

  233. Dave Cridland has joined

  234. Dave Cridland has left

  235. Dave Cridland has joined

  236. Ge0rG has left

  237. hannes has joined

  238. Ge0rG has left

  239. Alex has joined

  240. suzyo has joined

  241. ralphm has joined

  242. zinid has left

  243. Ge0rG has left

  244. hannes has joined

  245. ralphm has joined

  246. marc has left

  247. hannes has joined

  248. jere has joined

  249. Ge0rG has left

  250. Ge0rG has left

  251. Martin has joined

  252. efrit has left

  253. goffi has left

  254. daniel has left

  255. goffi has joined

  256. lskdjf has joined

  257. Kev has joined

  258. Ge0rG has left

  259. Ge0rG has left

  260. Alex has left

  261. Alex has joined

  262. Dave Cridland has left

  263. Dave Cridland has joined

  264. Dave Cridland has left

  265. Dave Cridland has joined

  266. Ge0rG has left

  267. Ge0rG has left

  268. SouL has left

  269. SouL has joined

  270. marc has joined

  271. @Alacer has joined

  272. ralphm has joined

  273. Ge0rG has left

  274. Ge0rG has left

  275. lskdjf has joined

  276. ralphm has left

  277. Syndace has joined

  278. Syndace has joined

  279. @Alacer has left

  280. @Alacer has joined

  281. Dave Cridland has left

  282. Dave Cridland has joined

  283. Ge0rG has left

  284. Ge0rG has left

  285. @Alacer has left

  286. tux has left

  287. jubalh has joined

  288. ralphm has left

  289. tux has joined

  290. la|r|ma has left

  291. Ge0rG has left

  292. Ge0rG has left

  293. marc has left

  294. Martin has left

  295. la|r|ma has left

  296. la|r|ma has joined

  297. Dave Cridland has left

  298. Dave Cridland has joined

  299. Dave Cridland has left

  300. Dave Cridland has joined

  301. Martin has joined

  302. Ge0rG has left

  303. Dave Cridland has left

  304. Dave Cridland has joined

  305. Ge0rG has left

  306. marc has joined

  307. Dave Cridland has left

  308. Dave Cridland has joined

  309. zinid has left

  310. mimi89999 has joined

  311. Dave Cridland has left

  312. Dave Cridland has joined

  313. Dave Cridland has left

  314. @Alacer has joined

  315. Dave Cridland has joined

  316. jere has joined

  317. Ge0rG has left

  318. @Alacer has left

  319. Ge0rG has left

  320. Alex has left

  321. Alex has joined

  322. @Alacer has joined

  323. moparisthebest has joined

  324. ralphm has left

  325. moparisthebest has joined

  326. Ge0rG has left

  327. tux has joined

  328. jere has joined

  329. Ge0rG has left

  330. Dave Cridland has left

  331. Dave Cridland has joined

  332. Ge0rG has left

  333. Ge0rG has left

  334. moparisthebest has joined

  335. Alex has left

  336. moparisthebest has joined

  337. intosi has joined

  338. Ge0rG has left

  339. tux has joined

  340. zinid has left

  341. Ge0rG has left

  342. jjrh has left

  343. zinid has left

  344. nyco has left

  345. lskdjf has joined

  346. tux has left

  347. tux has joined

  348. tux has joined

  349. lskdjf has joined

  350. jjrh has left

  351. jjrh has left

  352. jjrh has left

  353. Dave Cridland has left

  354. Dave Cridland has left

  355. Ge0rG has left

  356. jjrh has left

  357. daniel has left

  358. hannes has joined

  359. zinid has left

  360. @Alacer has left

  361. @Alacer has joined

  362. Ge0rG has left

  363. jjrh has left

  364. @Alacer has left

  365. jjrh has left

  366. Ge0rG has left

  367. Ge0rG has left

  368. ralphm has left

  369. tux has left

  370. Alex has left

  371. Ge0rG has left

  372. Ge0rG has left

  373. Alex has joined

  374. Ge0rG has left

  375. Dave Cridland has left

  376. Dave Cridland has left

  377. jubalh has left

  378. suzyo has joined

  379. @Alacer has joined

  380. Martin has left

  381. Ge0rG has left

  382. ralphm has left

  383. @Alacer has left

  384. @Alacer has joined

  385. Ge0rG has left

  386. @Alacer has left

  387. @Alacer has joined

  388. Alex has left

  389. Ge0rG has left

  390. @Alacer has left

  391. Ge0rG has left

  392. Dave Cridland has left

  393. daniel has left

  394. vanitasvitae has left

  395. moparisthebest has joined

  396. Ge0rG has left

  397. moparisthebest has joined

  398. tux has left

  399. tux has left

  400. tux has joined

  401. nyco has left

  402. jjrh has left

  403. jjrh has left

  404. Ge0rG has left

  405. Ge0rG has left

  406. lumi has left

  407. Ge0rG has left

  408. Dave Cridland has left

  409. Dave Cridland has left

  410. vanitasvitae has left

  411. moparisthebest has left

  412. moparisthebest has joined

  413. moparisthebest has left

  414. moparisthebest has joined

  415. moparisthebest has left

  416. moparisthebest has joined

  417. moparisthebest has joined

  418. moparisthebest has left

  419. moparisthebest has joined

  420. moparisthebest has left

  421. moparisthebest has joined

  422. moparisthebest has left

  423. moparisthebest has joined

  424. moparisthebest has left

  425. moparisthebest has joined

  426. moparisthebest has joined

  427. moparisthebest has joined

  428. moparisthebest has joined

  429. moparisthebest has joined

  430. moparisthebest has joined

  431. moparisthebest has joined

  432. moparisthebest has joined

  433. moparisthebest has joined

  434. moparisthebest has joined

  435. moparisthebest has left

  436. vanitasvitae has left

  437. Ge0rG has left

  438. hannes has left

  439. Ge0rG has left

  440. Steve Kille has joined

  441. Guus has joined

  442. Guus has joined

  443. Guus has joined

  444. Alex has joined

  445. Ge0rG has left

  446. suzyo has joined

  447. Alex

    lots of SPAM again the last 2 days :(

  448. Guus has left

  449. edhelas

    I'm planning to move to Matrix, less spam there

  450. jonasw

    http://www.managingcommunities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/not-sure-if-trolling.jpg "not sure if trolling or being serious"

  451. Ge0rG has left

  452. suzyo has joined

  453. daniel has left

  454. jubalh has joined

  455. Ge0rG has left

  456. zinid has left

  457. efrit has joined

  458. Ge0rG has left

  459. Ge0rG has left

  460. hannes has joined

  461. vanitasvitae has joined

  462. vanitasvitae has joined

  463. SamWhited has left

  464. SamWhited has joined

  465. Zash has left

  466. Ge0rG has left

  467. Martin has joined

  468. Ge0rG has left

  469. Steve Kille has left

  470. jjrh has left

  471. Ge0rG has left

  472. tux has left

  473. jjrh has left

  474. la|r|ma has left

  475. jjrh has left

  476. daniel has left

  477. tux has left

  478. tux has joined

  479. Kev has left

  480. Kev has joined

  481. efrit has left

  482. vanitasvitae has joined

  483. Ge0rG has left

  484. lumi has joined

  485. nyco has left

  486. zinid has left

  487. Ge0rG has left

  488. daniel has left

  489. pep. has joined

  490. zinid has left

  491. Ge0rG has left

  492. daniel has left

  493. suzyo has joined

  494. suzyo has joined

  495. vanitasvitae has left

  496. tux has left

  497. Dave Cridland has left

  498. Martin has left

  499. Dave Cridland has left

  500. Ge0rG has left

  501. Dave Cridland has left

  502. Martin has joined

  503. Ge0rG has left

  504. daniel has left

  505. blabla has left

  506. Dave Cridland has left

  507. Dave Cridland has left

  508. Ge0rG has left

  509. Dave Cridland has left

  510. Ge0rG has left

  511. jjrh has left

  512. suzyo has joined

  513. suzyo has joined

  514. jjrh has left

  515. jjrh has left

  516. jubalh has left

  517. Kev has left

  518. jjrh has left

  519. Kev has joined

  520. jjrh has left

  521. intosi has left

  522. Ge0rG has left

  523. jubalh has left

  524. jjrh has left

  525. suzyo has joined

  526. Ge0rG has left

  527. Kev has left

  528. suzyo has joined

  529. Steve Kille has left

  530. jjrh has left

  531. Steve Kille has joined

  532. hannes has left

  533. hannes has joined

  534. Ge0rG has left

  535. Ge0rG has left

  536. Dave Cridland has left

  537. Dave Cridland has left

  538. Dave Cridland has left

  539. blabla has left

  540. Martin has left

  541. jjrh has left

  542. jjrh has left

  543. Ge0rG has left

  544. Ge0rG has left

  545. Kev has joined

  546. jjrh has left

  547. ralphm has left

  548. jjrh has left

  549. blabla has joined

  550. peter has joined

  551. daniel has left

  552. daniel has joined

  553. Ge0rG has left

  554. jjrh has left

  555. Dave Cridland has left

  556. moparisthebest

    well zinid privacy and e2ee overlap a bit but it's not the whole story, no commercial walled gardens offer the kind of privacy xmpp does

  557. moparisthebest

    my point was if the average user is surprised that twitter has what they send to twitter, they have no concept of the term privacy and selling xmpp to them based on that is impossible

  558. Ge0rG has left

  559. moparisthebest

    the less nice way to put it is you'd have to sell xmpp to those morons by saying it has prettier stickers

  560. jjrh has left

  561. Ge0rG has left

  562. Ge0rG has left

  563. jjrh has left

  564. Ge0rG has left

  565. Alex has left

  566. jjrh has left

  567. Alex has joined

  568. lskdjf has joined

  569. la|r|ma has joined

  570. Kev

    It's hard to imagine why we'd have a hard time selling XMPP to anyone, if we consider people who like prettiness to be morons.

  571. intosi has joined

  572. Ge0rG has left

  573. vanitasvitae

    My Grandmother recently got an iPad for christmas. She had no experience with computers before and hasn't even used a typewriter once in her life (neither have I but thats not the point :D). I did not even think about installing her an XMPP client, because there is *no* simple to use client that I know of (let alone for iOS).

  574. daniel has left

  575. daniel has joined

  576. Kev

    I kinda think Swift is as simple as it can sensibly be, for the very basic cases, but certainly the more complex stuff isn't as straightforward as it could be.

  577. daniel has left

  578. daniel has joined

  579. moparisthebest

    well conversations is simple and pretty, but if you are trying to sell it to someone over whatsapp, I think all I can come up with immediatly is 'privacy' and for morons who are surprised twitter has what they send them, that's a non-argument

  580. vanitasvitae

    Originally my brother installed her Facetime, but then she couldn't call me, so I installed her Wire instead. Even Wires interface is too complicated (too many buttons and thingies to accidentally tap on). In the end we stayed with Wire, but my brother put the ipad in "guided access" (he basically blocked away many buttons and prevented wire from being closed).

  581. vanitasvitae

    I havent used swift, so I cannot tell, but conversations is certainly *not* easy to use unfortunately

  582. vanitasvitae

    at least in my opinion.

  583. Dave Cridland has left

  584. moparisthebest

    why not? my 5yo uses it to message grandma

  585. Dave Cridland has left

  586. moparisthebest

    she can't even fully read, just simple words

  587. Kev

    Swift's certainly straightforward enough for my parents, but they can use a web browser and the such too, so that's not as extreme.

  588. Kev

    Compared with relatives who're unable to work a phone.

  589. daniel

    Probably depends on the grandma. I wasn't able to teach my grandma to use a feature phone

  590. vanitasvitae

    moparisthebest, fair enough, most features of conversations are hidden away in menus, so mistake clicks are not made so easily

  591. daniel

    But then again I can't use Instagram

  592. vanitasvitae

    still, no encryption by default (I know we are getting there), and for example the green indicator thing doubling up as status indicator (if configured so) and image send button is confusing for starters

  593. daniel

    And I don't really want to learn it either because that's not my generation

  594. Kev

    You're too young to instagram?

  595. moparisthebest

    those users don't need to worry about status ?

  596. moparisthebest

    (no one really *needs* to from conversations honestly)

  597. Ge0rG has left

  598. Kev

    Not that I think instagram's the most enriching thing in the world, but ... yeah.

  599. Alex has left

  600. daniel

    It has a very confusing interface...

  601. vanitasvitae

    moparisthebest, sure I'm nitpicking here. My point is, that XMPP could still be *even* simpler.

  602. daniel

    Kev: I was thinking I'm too old? But maybe I'm too young...

  603. moparisthebest

    vanitasvitae, does conversations even show status without fiddling in advanced options? I didn't think it did

  604. Kev

    daniel: I think you're younger than me, and a lot of my friends use it (and going down from my age to 25 or so - I don't have many friends below that).

  605. vanitasvitae

    sure it doesn't point taken :)

  606. Kev

    But I think we might be digressing :)

  607. Kev

    As an aside, I think status needs to be seriously rethought and simplified at the protocol level - at least by convention.

  608. Dave Cridland has left

  609. daniel

    Kev: maybe it's different in the UK? I dont know a single person who actually uses it on a regular basis. I always assumed it was a generation thing. But maybe it's a culture thing

  610. vanitasvitae

    moparisthebest, some time ago I installed conversations on my fathers phone. It was a hassle to explain OMEMO fingerprints to him.

  611. Kev

    It could be regional. Back in the day, whether you were MSN/ICQ/Y! etc. was heavily influenced by region.

  612. moparisthebest

    oh I agree there vanitasvitae , I installed conversations on my mom's phone , trusted my fingerprints, and didn't mention omemo :)

  613. Kev

    vanitasvitae: I'm not convinced that e2e for all is actually the right thing to do.

  614. Kev

    Because in order for e2e to be meaningful there are some slightly tricky things that you *have* to deal with, or else have a central entity with too much control.

  615. daniel

    vanitasvitae: why did you even try to? Leave it in BTBV mode and don't bother with verification

  616. moparisthebest

    my 5yo doesn't know about omemo either, it just works

  617. vanitasvitae

    Try to explain him, that some times (when I reinstalled conversations), the fingerprint would change, and what that means

  618. vanitasvitae

    daniel, that was back, when BTBV didnt exist

  619. vanitasvitae

    I'm a long time user lol

  620. Link Mauve

    daniel, how do you enable that btw?

  621. moparisthebest

    I am convinced XMPP is the *best* (or only) choice for safely creating children's accounts :) https://burtrum.org/kids_firewall.pfw.txt

  622. vanitasvitae

    Link Mauve, just dont scan somebodies fingerprint :D

  623. Dave Cridland has left

  624. Link Mauve

    Ok, but you still have to select it in the dropdown (?) menu, right?

  625. Ge0rG has left

  626. vanitasvitae

    I think no

  627. vanitasvitae

    but daniel is probably the better one to ask :D

  628. moparisthebest

    if you mean turn omemo on, yes you still have to do that

  629. moparisthebest

    (until feb or something? he has a plan to make it default)

  630. daniel

    Link Mauve: enable BTBV? That's enabled by default. You can disable it in the expert settings

  631. Link Mauve

    Ok, my parents definitely didn’t do that. :)

  632. Link Mauve

    I just enabled OMEMO for them between them and with my sister, without saying anything special about it.

  633. jubalh has joined

  634. jonasw

    I disabled OMEMO everywhere because the interop with non-OMEMO clients on the same account is terrible.

  635. jonasw

    (and the pidgin-omemo-plugins mess my pidgin up badly, for some reason)

  636. Link Mauve

    I didn’t enable it with me, because I don’t use it. :p

  637. Link Mauve

    But they all use Conversations, and some use Dino, so that’s fine.

  638. uc has left

  639. uc has joined

  640. Ge0rG has left

  641. intosi has left

  642. Ge0rG has left

  643. vanitasvitae

    I would switch from gajim to dino as soon as they implement tray icon support, so that the app keeps running in the background

  644. Steve Kille has left

  645. tux has joined

  646. uc has joined

  647. Ge0rG has left

  648. Guus has left

  649. Ge0rG has left

  650. suzyo has joined

  651. suzyo has joined

  652. suzyo has joined

  653. Guus has left

  654. Ge0rG has left

  655. moparisthebest

    ha I feel like that's all that is discussed in the dino muc nowadays

  656. moparisthebest

    the 'one true DE Gnome' dropped systray support so all other DEs should drop it, or something

  657. moparisthebest

    I disagree, but meh

  658. SamWhited

    I don't think it was a GNOME thing, I think the Freedesktop spec dropped it, IIRC

  659. SamWhited

    GNOME and many other DEs follow that

  660. moparisthebest

    gnome is the only one I know of without a systray

  661. SamWhited

    It moves faster than others, yes

  662. moparisthebest

    also iirc Link Mauve said it won't work in wayland either

  663. Link Mauve

    moparisthebest, my DE also doesn’t have a systray.

  664. Link Mauve

    I haven’t had one even when I was still on X11.

  665. mathieui

    I don’t have a systray either

  666. SamWhited

    Neither does mine (also on X11), although that might not matter much since I'm in a weird MATE/i3 mix and it's pretty heavily customized

  667. Link Mauve

    moparisthebest, KDE and Unity were the ones who wrote a specification (hosted at fd.o) to support systray on non-X11, but with Unity moving to GNOME I’m not sure where that went.

  668. moparisthebest

    leave my KDE alone kthx :P

  669. Link Mauve


  670. moparisthebest

    I have been meaning to try something tiling though, maybe i3

  671. moparisthebest

    (I was just joking around, that I want to keep my systray in KDE)

  672. SamWhited

    I like i3 a lot, but I've also heard good things about "awesome" (I think that's what it's called)

  673. SamWhited

    But i3 is firmly in the "good enough" category for me, so I haven't tried anything else

  674. moparisthebest

    that's how I am with KDE, started with it in 2005ish and just could never switch to anything else

  675. Ge0rG has left

  676. Link Mauve

    “20:31:17 moparisthebest> (I was just joking around, that I want to keep my systray in KDE)”, if you read what I said again, that’s exactly what I said they are doing. :p

  677. SouL

    moparisthebest, +1

  678. jonasw

    SamWhited, if you like i3, awesome isn’t for you :)

  679. jonasw

    (I say that as a long-time awesome user who switched to i3)

  680. jonasw

    (because i3 had the single feature I always missed from awesome)

  681. SouL

    Which is? :)

  682. jonasw

    SouL, more freely tiling windows. awesome has rather fixed layouts

  683. Anu has joined

  684. daniel has left

  685. Zash

    Having workspaces switchable independencly on each monitor is pretty nice

  686. jonasw

    Zash, yeah, that too

  687. SamWhited

    My only real problem with i3 is that I haven't found a good way to swap easily between the 1080p screen on my laptop and a 4k external monitor

  688. SamWhited

    (although luckily the only external monitor I use right now is also 1080p, so it stopped being a problem)

  689. SamWhited has left

  690. Zash

    Swap how?

  691. Ge0rG has left

  692. SamWhited

    pluging in a 4k monitor everything on it is tiny, if I make it bigger when I unplug it the bar eats half my screen

  693. daniel has left

  694. SamWhited has left

  695. SamWhited has joined

  696. Ge0rG has left

  697. Kev has left

  698. SamWhited has left

  699. SamWhited has joined

  700. la|r|ma has left

  701. Guus has left

  702. jonasw

    hm, I have a similar issue with my 3k notebook screen and the 19 inch 1280×1024 external one. I use a font which is rather readable even on small sizes (one of those <http://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/>)

  703. la|r|ma has left

  704. la|r|ma has left

  705. daniel has left

  706. la|r|ma has left

  707. la|r|ma has left

  708. la|r|ma has left

  709. la|r|ma has left

  710. la|r|ma has left

  711. Ge0rG has left

  712. la|r|ma has left

  713. Anu has left

  714. la|r|ma has left

  715. SamWhited has joined

  716. SamWhited has joined

  717. la|r|ma has left

  718. Guus has left

  719. la|r|ma has left

  720. la|r|ma has left

  721. la|r|ma has left

  722. la|r|ma has left

  723. mimi89999 has left

  724. la|r|ma has left

  725. la|r|ma has left

  726. la|r|ma has left

  727. bra has joined

  728. Ge0rG has left

  729. la|r|ma has left

  730. ralphm has joined

  731. la|r|ma has left

  732. la|r|ma has left

  733. la|r|ma has left

  734. la|r|ma has left

  735. la|r|ma has left

  736. la|r|ma has left

  737. la|r|ma has left

  738. la|r|ma has left

  739. la|r|ma has left

  740. la|r|ma has left

  741. Ge0rG has left

  742. la|r|ma has left

  743. la|r|ma has left

  744. la|r|ma has left

  745. winfried has left

  746. debacle has joined

  747. Ge0rG has left

  748. ralphm has joined

  749. la|r|ma has joined

  750. blabla has left

  751. debacle has joined

  752. zinid has left

  753. Ge0rG has left

  754. jonasw has left

  755. goffi has left

  756. lovetox has joined

  757. marc has left

  758. SamWhited has left

  759. efrit has joined

  760. Ge0rG has left

  761. suzyo has left

  762. ralphm has joined

  763. matlag has left

  764. Ge0rG has left

  765. efrit has left

  766. blabla has left

  767. moparisthebest has left

  768. SamWhited has left

  769. Ge0rG has left

  770. Ge0rG has joined

  771. lskdjf has left

  772. SouL has joined

  773. bra has left

  774. bra has joined

  775. SouL has joined

  776. jubalh has joined

  777. Ge0rG has left

  778. Kev has joined

  779. lovetox has left

  780. intosi has joined

  781. Kev has left

  782. jubalh has left

  783. jubalh has joined

  784. SamWhited has joined

  785. Kev has joined

  786. Kev has left

  787. Steve Kille has joined

  788. Ge0rG has left

  789. SamWhited has joined

  790. Dave Cridland has left

  791. Ge0rG has left

  792. intosi has left

  793. debacle has joined

  794. Ge0rG has left

  795. Dave Cridland has left

  796. Ge0rG has left

  797. suzyo has joined

  798. jubalh has left

  799. daniel has left

  800. tux has left

  801. matlag has left

  802. SouL has joined

  803. SouL has joined

  804. suzyo has joined

  805. Ge0rG has left

  806. suzyo has joined

  807. SamWhited has left

  808. lumi has left

  809. tux has left

  810. winfried has joined

  811. Dave Cridland has left

  812. Ge0rG has left

  813. Dave Cridland has left

  814. debacle has joined

  815. SamWhited has joined