XSF Discussion - 2018-01-19

00:00:33 matlag has left
00:06:35 tux has left
00:14:36 blabla has left
00:15:22 waqas has joined
00:15:22 waqas has left
00:16:35 jjrh has left
00:17:19 bra has joined
00:17:52 lumi has joined
00:18:49 jjrh has left
00:20:52 jjrh has left
00:21:59 Dave Cridland has left
00:25:37 vanitasvitae has left
00:31:47 waqas has joined
00:35:40 Dave Cridland has left
00:36:36 Alex has left
00:39:08 jubalh has joined
01:01:14 waqas has left
01:01:26 waqas has joined
01:01:27 waqas has left
01:04:53 lskdjf has left
01:06:10 Dave Cridland has left
01:09:17 la|r|ma has left
01:09:34 jubalh has joined
01:12:51 bra has left
01:12:51 bra has joined
01:29:48 hannes has left
01:29:52 hannes has joined
01:30:04 lskdjf has joined
01:35:23 la|r|ma has joined
01:38:52 Dave Cridland has left
01:51:48 lskdjf has joined
02:01:07 ralphm has left
02:10:00 Dave Cridland has left
02:15:28 Guus has left
02:37:26 Syndace has left
02:37:29 Syndace has joined
02:41:30 matlag has left
03:06:55 uc has joined
03:12:28 Dave Cridland has left
03:30:45 Dave Cridland has left
03:45:59 SamWhited has left
03:46:01 SamWhited has joined
03:58:01 SamWhited has left
03:58:06 SamWhited has joined
04:06:06 SamWhited has joined
04:10:00 Dave Cridland has left
04:11:01 efrit has joined
04:22:21 matlag has left
04:34:25 efrit has left
04:34:32 efrit has joined
04:42:15 Dave Cridland has left
05:04:54 SamWhited has joined
05:15:54 Dave Cridland has left
05:20:35 SamWhited has left
05:20:39 SamWhited has joined
05:25:04 suzyo has joined
05:25:30 efrit has left
05:26:39 zinid has joined
05:48:47 Dave Cridland has left
05:49:53 xnyhps has left
05:49:59 xnyhps has joined
05:54:09 xnyhps has left
05:54:16 xnyhps has joined
06:14:37 hannes has left
06:20:18 Dave Cridland has left
06:25:20 Guus has left
06:27:29 zinid has left
06:27:48 tux has left
06:27:48 tux has joined
06:49:32 nyco has left
06:49:39 bra has left
06:49:52 bra has joined
06:52:01 Dave Cridland has left
06:52:46 Guus has left
06:57:17 ralphm has left
07:03:10 ralphm has left
07:05:40 Guus has left
07:08:19 hannes has joined
07:10:20 ralphm has left
07:11:04 ralphm has joined
07:14:02 zinid has joined
07:17:36 Guus has left
07:19:35 hannes has joined
07:48:03 ralphm has joined
07:48:47 Syndace has left
07:48:51 Syndace has joined
07:49:27 tux has left
07:49:30 tux has joined
07:52:26 Ge0rG has left
07:57:51 Dave Cridland has left
07:59:27 ralphm has left
08:03:11 moparisthebest has joined
08:03:58 Ge0rG has left
08:06:38 zinid has left
08:11:23 zinid has joined
08:19:10 Ge0rG has left
08:20:35 daniel has joined
08:29:52 ralphm has left
08:34:16 Dave Cridland has left
08:34:20 la|r|ma has joined
08:34:42 Ge0rG has left
08:36:23 remko has joined
08:45:19 lskdjf has joined
08:46:02 ralphm has left
08:46:05 hannes has joined
08:50:31 Ge0rG has left
08:51:53 hannes has left
08:57:07 waqas has joined
08:58:35 Steve Kille has left
08:59:35 remko has joined
09:01:48 ralphm has joined
09:02:21 remko has joined
09:04:33 ralphm has joined
09:06:03 moparisthebest has left
09:07:02 Ge0rG has left
09:11:21 Martin has joined
09:13:41 moparisthebest has joined
09:18:52 Ge0rG has left
09:24:46 la|r|ma has left
09:24:51 la|r|ma has joined
09:25:25 jubalh has joined
09:26:59 jubalh has left
09:27:01 jubalh has joined
09:28:11 goffi has joined
09:28:43 Dave Cridland has left
09:34:32 lskdjf has joined
09:35:58 Ge0rG has left
09:37:06 intosi Or... it helped mentors know what students they didn't mentor were up to.
09:42:35 Flow Didn't we had mandatory weekly blog posts and a joined MUC for this?
09:43:00 daniel has left
09:43:03 zinid has left
09:43:10 Kev Not exactly, no.
09:43:23 Kev The blog posts are public-facing and are a summary of the technical activity.
09:43:47 Kev The weekly meetings are for keeping in touch and seeing how things are going and an opportunity to discuss issues, etc.
09:45:29 Flow Nothing which justifies the tradeoff of holding a weekly meeting across all mentors and particanpts
09:45:32 Alex has joined
09:46:05 intosi I disagree.
09:46:57 Kev It doesn't have to be a weekly MUC meeting, naturally. But I think *something* of that nature is vital in trying to encourage a culture of being team players.
09:47:11 Kev Surely you must have similar setups in other groups you're with - at work or with customers or whatever?
09:47:23 vanitasvitae has left
09:47:23 vanitasvitae has left
09:47:41 Flow Kev, if we work all on the same project
09:48:02 intosi We're part of the same organisation.
09:48:22 Flow But weekly mandatory meetings with all particpants who work on different projects are counterproductive
09:48:29 intosi Surely you have colleagues who work on other projects, and it makes sense to keep a sense of what's doing on there.
09:48:37 intosi I know I do.
09:48:42 Flow And the XSF is the only GSOC org who did that I'm aware of
09:48:52 Ge0rG has left
09:49:05 Dave Cridland has left
09:49:50 vanitasvitae has joined
09:53:47 vanitasvitae has joined
09:54:38 jubalh has joined
09:57:10 winfried has left
09:59:29 Flow And the comparison with a proffesional paid environment seems odd. As spare time mentor I have to carefully decide how I spend my time, and those weekly meetings yielded nothing in return for me, and possibly for my student. If there had been another XSF GSOC project I had been interrested in, I would probably get in direct contact with the related mentor and student.
10:00:02 Flow Actually that is what I did in 2015 when OMEMO was developed
10:00:15 jonasw Flow, but then, getting in contact with specific mentors incurs O(n²) cost "if everyone did that"
10:00:20 jonasw while a meeting can be O(n)
10:00:42 Link Mauve Flow, the only other org I was following some GSoCs ago was also holding a similar chat meeting with all students working on different projects.
10:00:48 Link Mauve (Tatoeba.)
10:01:01 Flow Link Mauve, a mandatory weekly meeting?
10:01:35 Flow jonasw, true, but that assumes that everyone wants to know what everyone else does
10:02:17 Link Mauve Yeah.
10:02:42 Kev The biggest gain is probably ensuring that no student feels that they're on their own, or stuck with their mentor if they're not getting on, or the like.
10:02:47 jonasw yeah, "if everyone did that"
10:02:51 Flow Link Mauve, and there where different codebases involved? Was Tatoea acting as umbrella org?
10:02:56 Kev In the happy path lots of the protections that an Admin has to put in place aren't as necessary.
10:03:12 Kev But they're there because experience says that when things go wrong they can go very wrong unless you keep on top of things.
10:03:41 Link Mauve Flow, different codebases (the current PHP-based tatoeba2, a totally new Django version, the Qt software Anki, and I think something else too).
10:04:51 Ge0rG has left
10:05:00 Flow I think is sufficent to tell the students that they can contact the org admin if they having issues which they can't resolve with the mentor, it doesn't need a weekly meeting for that
10:05:10 Link Mauve Flow, I’ve noticed that many newcomers tend not to think about going to the rooms of other projects.
10:05:40 Link Mauve Maybe because IM is not fully part of their workflow, or a myriad of other reasons.
10:06:14 Link Mauve Flow, also some people tend not to reach for help when they feel overwhelmed or lost, I know I have that tendency.
10:06:40 Flow Link Mauve, I don't follow, sorry. This is not about having a joined MUC for GSOC, but about whether or neet it needs another additional mandatory weekly meeting
10:07:02 Link Mauve It has affected me quite a lot in the past, until I started seriously working on that issue, people around me would only notice when it was very late.
10:07:33 Link Mauve Flow, looking at other years, there was exactly no discussion in said MUC outside of the weekly meetings.
10:08:05 Flow Link Mauve, there surely was discussion between mentor and student
10:08:44 Link Mauve Maybe in private, and some in the project’s room, but I didn’t see any of that in the shared room.
10:09:08 Flow And I didn't expect that to happen
10:13:09 jubalh has left
10:15:47 jubalh has joined
10:18:52 Ge0rG has left
10:22:26 hannes has joined
10:23:52 pep. has left
10:26:19 vanitasvitae has left
10:26:19 vanitasvitae has left
10:27:58 vanitasvitae has joined
10:31:39 vanitasvitae has left
10:31:39 vanitasvitae has left
10:33:30 vanitasvitae has joined
10:33:52 Ge0rG has left
10:37:55 goffi has left
10:38:12 goffi has joined
10:48:46 vanitasvitae has joined
10:48:46 vanitasvitae has joined
10:48:57 Ge0rG has left
10:49:03 remko has joined
10:51:13 Tobias has left
10:51:32 vanitasvitae has joined
10:54:02 hannes has joined
11:04:42 edhelas has left
11:04:53 Ge0rG has left
11:09:53 lskdjf has joined
11:10:57 hannes has joined
11:12:11 jubalh has left
11:12:24 remko has joined
11:18:55 Ge0rG has left
11:21:43 edhelas has left
11:21:43 edhelas has joined
11:22:11 zinid has left
11:26:18 waqas has left
11:28:59 remko has joined
11:34:39 Guus has left
11:34:54 Ge0rG has left
11:36:37 Dave Cridland has left
11:45:13 blabla has left
11:45:50 suzyo has joined
11:47:36 Guus has left
11:49:28 Ge0rG has left
11:50:44 Bunneh has left
11:50:45 Bunneh has joined
11:51:32 hannes has joined
11:58:47 remko has joined
12:01:08 jubalh has joined
12:04:12 Ge0rG has left
12:04:28 lumi has joined
12:07:06 la|r|ma has joined
12:08:15 jubalh has joined
12:08:38 blabla has left
12:12:49 hannes has joined
12:20:54 Ge0rG has left
12:22:13 Syndace has left
12:22:18 Syndace has joined
12:23:32 daniel has joined
12:25:09 vanitasvitae has left
12:25:09 vanitasvitae has left
12:29:54 lskdjf has joined
12:32:30 Zash has left
12:36:02 Ge0rG has left
12:36:55 Alex has left
12:48:38 jubalh has left
12:50:27 vanitasvitae has joined
12:51:42 winfried has joined
12:51:44 Ge0rG has left
12:51:46 Martin has left
12:52:17 Steve Kille has joined
12:54:08 vanitasvitae has left
12:56:13 Alex has joined
12:59:17 goffi has left
13:03:54 Ge0rG has left
13:09:57 Steve Kille has left
13:16:16 la|r|ma has left
13:16:20 la|r|ma has joined
13:16:22 lumi has left
13:17:54 lskdjf has joined
13:20:14 Ge0rG has left
13:26:29 remko has joined
13:28:12 ralphm has left
13:31:47 moparisthebest has joined
13:31:55 moparisthebest has left
13:32:24 blabla has left
13:32:31 moparisthebest has left
13:33:16 remko has joined
13:33:21 Martin has joined
13:35:09 Ge0rG has left
13:38:54 daniel has left
13:40:38 goffi has joined
13:41:59 lskdjf has joined
13:47:01 jubalh has joined
13:49:12 Ge0rG has left
13:55:03 lumi has joined
13:55:43 vanitasvitae has left
13:57:14 remko has left
13:57:16 remko has joined
13:59:14 ralphm has joined
14:02:58 blabla has left
14:06:06 Ge0rG has left
14:19:09 winfried has joined
14:20:24 Ge0rG has left
14:23:05 Martin has left
14:23:13 blabla has left
14:23:30 Martin has joined
14:24:06 Alex has left
14:24:23 hannes has joined
14:33:52 Ge0rG has left
14:34:48 Martin has left
14:38:02 Steve Kille has joined
14:48:52 Ge0rG has left
14:54:01 ralphm has left
14:55:28 Steve Kille has left
15:03:52 Ge0rG has left
15:07:58 Flow Shouldn't there be an edge from "Rejected" to "Experimental" in xep1 § 8.1?
15:18:52 Ge0rG has left
15:27:31 Tobias has left
15:27:45 Tobias has joined
15:33:15 tux has left
15:33:52 Ge0rG has left
15:33:54 blabla has left
15:39:37 jubalh has left
15:48:53 Ge0rG has left
15:52:55 hannes has joined
15:56:03 hannes has joined
16:03:41 Dave Cridland Flow, Hmmm. Possibly. I think Council should probably be able to fish things out of Rejected etc, and also push things back from Proposed to Experimental (which I think has happened).
16:03:52 Ge0rG has left
16:06:21 Dave Cridland has left
16:08:21 Kev I've whinged about this for years, but never got traction with anyone else to fix it.
16:08:40 Kev No, Council can't technically fish things out of Rejected, or from Proposed back to Experimental, although past Councils have ignored this and done it anyway.
16:08:51 Kev I think XEP1 should be fixed to allow both.
16:09:01 Flow I don't think that it needs council to get from rejected to experimental
16:09:20 jubalh has joined
16:19:53 Ge0rG has left
16:20:35 daniel has joined
16:20:48 lumi has left
16:31:59 Steve Kille has joined
16:34:20 Ge0rG has left
16:36:24 hannes has joined
16:38:47 jubalh has joined
16:48:52 Ge0rG has left
16:51:17 Alex has joined
16:58:24 lumi has joined
17:00:11 lskdjf has joined
17:01:46 matlag has left
17:05:43 Ge0rG has left
17:06:35 waqas has joined
17:06:36 waqas has left
17:06:59 hannes has joined
17:07:09 jubalh has joined
17:10:56 Guus has left
17:15:33 ralphm has left
17:16:33 Steve Kille has left
17:18:16 Dave Cridland Flow, I think it probably does. It's the moral equivalent of resubmitting as a new ProtoXEP.
17:18:53 Guus has left
17:18:54 Ge0rG But without a new number, I hope
17:20:36 Guus has left
17:20:40 la|r|ma has joined
17:20:52 Ge0rG has left
17:21:54 remko has joined
17:22:59 hannes has joined
17:26:16 vanitasvitae has left
17:26:33 Lance has joined
17:29:21 hannes has joined
17:29:23 lskdjf has joined
17:33:34 hannes has joined
17:34:03 Ge0rG has left
17:35:18 ralphm has joined
17:43:12 remko has joined
17:43:14 bra has left
17:43:18 bra has joined
17:43:46 blabla has left
17:45:29 ralphm has joined
17:46:56 winfried has left
17:48:52 Ge0rG has left
17:51:28 ralphm has left
17:53:21 ralphm has joined
17:55:14 Flow How can it be the "moral equivalent" if the previous XEP state was Experimental. What justifies a downgrade to ProtoXEP?
18:04:58 Dave Cridland has left
18:05:13 Zash has left
18:08:05 vanitasvitae has left
18:10:14 Zash has left
18:10:36 goffi has left
18:10:40 remko has joined
18:11:26 blabla has joined
18:11:33 blabla has joined
18:12:31 jubalh has joined
18:14:14 tux has joined
18:14:36 blabla has left
18:17:41 jjrh has left
18:17:56 Ge0rG has left
18:22:26 tux has joined
18:26:07 Alex has left
18:26:10 Alex has joined
18:27:16 remko has joined
18:28:17 ralphm has joined
18:32:03 Dave Cridland has left
18:33:59 Ge0rG has left
18:40:37 Alex has left
18:42:16 winfried has joined
18:44:26 jubalh has joined
18:46:46 remko has joined
18:46:47 Guus has left
18:48:27 lumi has left
18:50:05 Ge0rG has left
18:51:35 lskdjf has left
18:51:59 jjrh has left
18:52:07 Alex has left
18:52:54 Dave Cridland has left
18:54:10 jjrh has left
18:55:56 Guus has left
18:56:36 Guus has left
18:56:53 zinid has left
19:02:14 Ge0rG has left
19:04:44 ralphm has joined
19:05:10 Dave Cridland has left
19:16:27 goffi has joined
19:21:05 lovetox has joined
19:32:48 Dave Cridland has left
19:34:17 ralphm has left
19:37:32 Ge0rG has left
19:44:25 Zash has left
19:50:02 zinid has left
19:56:12 Alex has left
19:56:43 Alex has joined
19:56:47 jubalh has joined
19:58:32 lovetox has left
20:02:10 Ge0rG has left
20:04:00 SamWhited has left
20:06:21 remko has joined
20:07:21 Dave Cridland has left
20:07:31 Ge0rG has left
20:08:38 Dave Cridland has left
20:10:40 Guus has left
20:12:59 SamWhited has left
20:14:51 ralphm has left
20:17:15 Guus has left
20:21:39 Dave Cridland has left
20:22:32 Ge0rG has left
20:30:04 ralphm has joined
20:37:43 Ge0rG has left
20:38:44 jubalh has left
20:41:07 remko has joined
20:57:31 remko has joined
20:57:53 Ge0rG has left
20:58:10 Dave Cridland has left
21:05:57 ralphm has left
21:08:14 Ge0rG has left
21:11:00 ralphm has joined
21:17:11 remko has joined
21:22:42 Ge0rG has left
21:27:47 Dave Cridland has left
21:30:19 lskdjf has left
21:33:17 remko has left
21:36:04 lskdjf has left
21:36:28 moparisthebest has left
21:38:29 jubalh has left
21:38:38 Ge0rG has left
21:42:27 ralphm has left
21:42:30 ralphm has joined
21:45:37 lumi has joined
21:50:22 valo has joined
21:54:27 Alex has left
21:54:34 Ge0rG has left
21:57:52 moparisthebest has joined
21:59:35 Alex has joined
22:02:12 lovetox has joined
22:08:52 Ge0rG has left
22:09:20 jubalh has left
22:11:07 remko has joined
22:13:36 ralphm has joined
22:15:26 ralphm has joined
22:20:17 lovetox has left
22:20:36 lovetox has joined
22:22:39 lovetox has left
22:22:45 lovetox has joined
22:24:16 Ge0rG has left
22:26:41 jubalh has joined
22:27:40 remko has joined
22:27:45 SamWhited has left
22:30:01 SamWhited has left
22:30:03 SamWhited has joined
22:35:28 ralphm has left
22:35:59 ralphm has joined
22:38:49 bra has left
22:39:02 bra has joined
22:39:03 Ge0rG has left
22:45:58 lskdjf has left
22:46:52 lskdjf has left
22:49:40 pep. has left
22:49:43 remko has joined
22:49:55 lskdjf has left
22:51:19 lskdjf has left
22:52:30 ralphm has left
22:54:34 Ge0rG has left
22:55:27 SamWhited has left
22:55:30 SamWhited has joined
22:56:07 ralphm has joined
23:03:08 lskdjf has left
23:08:15 Ge0rG has left
23:08:33 remko has joined
23:16:13 ralphm has left
23:16:48 ralphm has joined
23:22:22 daniel has left
23:24:48 goffi has left
23:32:14 Ge0rG has left
23:39:53 jubalh has left
23:43:21 Lance has joined
23:43:58 remko has joined
23:49:23 winfried has left
23:57:51 winfried has joined