XSF Discussion - 2018-01-19

  1. matlag has left
  2. tux has left
  3. blabla has left
  4. waqas has joined
  5. waqas has left
  6. jjrh has left
  7. bra has joined
  8. lumi has joined
  9. jjrh has left
  10. jjrh has left
  11. Dave Cridland has left
  12. vanitasvitae has left
  13. waqas has joined
  14. Dave Cridland has left
  15. Alex has left
  16. jubalh has joined
  17. waqas has left
  18. waqas has joined
  19. waqas has left
  20. lskdjf has left
  21. Dave Cridland has left
  22. la|r|ma has left
  23. jubalh has joined
  24. bra has left
  25. bra has joined
  26. hannes has left
  27. hannes has joined
  28. lskdjf has joined
  29. la|r|ma has joined
  30. Dave Cridland has left
  31. lskdjf has joined
  32. ralphm has left
  33. Dave Cridland has left
  34. Guus has left
  35. Syndace has left
  36. Syndace has joined
  37. matlag has left
  38. uc has joined
  39. Dave Cridland has left
  40. Dave Cridland has left
  41. SamWhited has left
  42. SamWhited has joined
  43. SamWhited has left
  44. SamWhited has joined
  45. SamWhited has joined
  46. Dave Cridland has left
  47. efrit has joined
  48. matlag has left
  49. efrit has left
  50. efrit has joined
  51. Dave Cridland has left
  52. SamWhited has joined
  53. Dave Cridland has left
  54. SamWhited has left
  55. SamWhited has joined
  56. suzyo has joined
  57. efrit has left
  58. zinid has joined
  59. Dave Cridland has left
  60. xnyhps has left
  61. xnyhps has joined
  62. xnyhps has left
  63. xnyhps has joined
  64. hannes has left
  65. Dave Cridland has left
  66. Guus has left
  67. zinid has left
  68. tux has left
  69. tux has joined
  70. nyco has left
  71. bra has left
  72. bra has joined
  73. Dave Cridland has left
  74. Guus has left
  75. ralphm has left
  76. ralphm has left
  77. Guus has left
  78. hannes has joined
  79. ralphm has left
  80. ralphm has joined
  81. zinid has joined
  82. Guus has left
  83. hannes has joined
  84. ralphm has joined
  85. Syndace has left
  86. Syndace has joined
  87. tux has left
  88. tux has joined
  89. Ge0rG has left
  90. Dave Cridland has left
  91. ralphm has left
  92. moparisthebest has joined
  93. Ge0rG has left
  94. zinid has left
  95. zinid has joined
  96. Ge0rG has left
  97. daniel has joined
  98. ralphm has left
  99. Dave Cridland has left
  100. la|r|ma has joined
  101. Ge0rG has left
  102. remko has joined
  103. lskdjf has joined
  104. ralphm has left
  105. hannes has joined
  106. Ge0rG has left
  107. hannes has left
  108. waqas has joined
  109. Steve Kille has left
  110. remko has joined
  111. ralphm has joined
  112. remko has joined
  113. ralphm has joined
  114. moparisthebest has left
  115. Ge0rG has left
  116. Martin has joined
  117. moparisthebest has joined
  118. Ge0rG has left
  119. la|r|ma has left
  120. la|r|ma has joined
  121. jubalh has joined
  122. jubalh has left
  123. jubalh has joined
  124. goffi has joined
  125. Dave Cridland has left
  126. lskdjf has joined
  127. Ge0rG has left
  128. intosi Or... it helped mentors know what students they didn't mentor were up to.
  129. Flow Didn't we had mandatory weekly blog posts and a joined MUC for this?
  130. daniel has left
  131. zinid has left
  132. Kev Not exactly, no.
  133. Kev The blog posts are public-facing and are a summary of the technical activity.
  134. Kev The weekly meetings are for keeping in touch and seeing how things are going and an opportunity to discuss issues, etc.
  135. Flow Nothing which justifies the tradeoff of holding a weekly meeting across all mentors and particanpts
  136. Alex has joined
  137. intosi I disagree.
  138. Kev It doesn't have to be a weekly MUC meeting, naturally. But I think *something* of that nature is vital in trying to encourage a culture of being team players.
  139. Kev Surely you must have similar setups in other groups you're with - at work or with customers or whatever?
  140. vanitasvitae has left
  141. vanitasvitae has left
  142. Flow Kev, if we work all on the same project
  143. intosi We're part of the same organisation.
  144. Flow But weekly mandatory meetings with all particpants who work on different projects are counterproductive
  145. intosi Surely you have colleagues who work on other projects, and it makes sense to keep a sense of what's doing on there.
  146. intosi I know I do.
  147. Flow And the XSF is the only GSOC org who did that I'm aware of
  148. Ge0rG has left
  149. Dave Cridland has left
  150. vanitasvitae has joined
  151. vanitasvitae has joined
  152. jubalh has joined
  153. winfried has left
  154. Flow And the comparison with a proffesional paid environment seems odd. As spare time mentor I have to carefully decide how I spend my time, and those weekly meetings yielded nothing in return for me, and possibly for my student. If there had been another XSF GSOC project I had been interrested in, I would probably get in direct contact with the related mentor and student.
  155. Flow Actually that is what I did in 2015 when OMEMO was developed
  156. jonasw Flow, but then, getting in contact with specific mentors incurs O(n²) cost "if everyone did that"
  157. jonasw while a meeting can be O(n)
  158. Link Mauve Flow, the only other org I was following some GSoCs ago was also holding a similar chat meeting with all students working on different projects.
  159. Link Mauve (Tatoeba.)
  160. Flow Link Mauve, a mandatory weekly meeting?
  161. Flow jonasw, true, but that assumes that everyone wants to know what everyone else does
  162. Link Mauve Yeah.
  163. Kev The biggest gain is probably ensuring that no student feels that they're on their own, or stuck with their mentor if they're not getting on, or the like.
  164. jonasw yeah, "if everyone did that"
  165. Flow Link Mauve, and there where different codebases involved? Was Tatoea acting as umbrella org?
  166. Kev In the happy path lots of the protections that an Admin has to put in place aren't as necessary.
  167. Kev But they're there because experience says that when things go wrong they can go very wrong unless you keep on top of things.
  168. Link Mauve Flow, different codebases (the current PHP-based tatoeba2, a totally new Django version, the Qt software Anki, and I think something else too).
  169. Ge0rG has left
  170. Flow I think is sufficent to tell the students that they can contact the org admin if they having issues which they can't resolve with the mentor, it doesn't need a weekly meeting for that
  171. Link Mauve Flow, I’ve noticed that many newcomers tend not to think about going to the rooms of other projects.
  172. Link Mauve Maybe because IM is not fully part of their workflow, or a myriad of other reasons.
  173. Link Mauve Flow, also some people tend not to reach for help when they feel overwhelmed or lost, I know I have that tendency.
  174. Flow Link Mauve, I don't follow, sorry. This is not about having a joined MUC for GSOC, but about whether or neet it needs another additional mandatory weekly meeting
  175. Link Mauve It has affected me quite a lot in the past, until I started seriously working on that issue, people around me would only notice when it was very late.
  176. Link Mauve Flow, looking at other years, there was exactly no discussion in said MUC outside of the weekly meetings.
  177. Flow Link Mauve, there surely was discussion between mentor and student
  178. Link Mauve Maybe in private, and some in the project’s room, but I didn’t see any of that in the shared room.
  179. Flow And I didn't expect that to happen
  180. jubalh has left
  181. jubalh has joined
  182. Ge0rG has left
  183. hannes has joined
  184. pep. has left
  185. vanitasvitae has left
  186. vanitasvitae has left
  187. vanitasvitae has joined
  188. vanitasvitae has left
  189. vanitasvitae has left
  190. vanitasvitae has joined
  191. Ge0rG has left
  192. goffi has left
  193. goffi has joined
  194. vanitasvitae has joined
  195. vanitasvitae has joined
  196. Ge0rG has left
  197. remko has joined
  198. Tobias has left
  199. vanitasvitae has joined
  200. hannes has joined
  201. edhelas has left
  202. Ge0rG has left
  203. lskdjf has joined
  204. hannes has joined
  205. jubalh has left
  206. remko has joined
  207. Ge0rG has left
  208. edhelas has left
  209. edhelas has joined
  210. zinid has left
  211. waqas has left
  212. remko has joined
  213. Guus has left
  214. Ge0rG has left
  215. Dave Cridland has left
  216. blabla has left
  217. suzyo has joined
  218. Guus has left
  219. Ge0rG has left
  220. Bunneh has left
  221. Bunneh has joined
  222. hannes has joined
  223. remko has joined
  224. jubalh has joined
  225. Ge0rG has left
  226. lumi has joined
  227. la|r|ma has joined
  228. jubalh has joined
  229. blabla has left
  230. hannes has joined
  231. Ge0rG has left
  232. Syndace has left
  233. Syndace has joined
  234. daniel has joined
  235. vanitasvitae has left
  236. vanitasvitae has left
  237. lskdjf has joined
  238. Zash has left
  239. Ge0rG has left
  240. Alex has left
  241. jubalh has left
  242. vanitasvitae has joined
  243. winfried has joined
  244. Ge0rG has left
  245. Martin has left
  246. Steve Kille has joined
  247. vanitasvitae has left
  248. Alex has joined
  249. goffi has left
  250. Ge0rG has left
  251. Steve Kille has left
  252. la|r|ma has left
  253. la|r|ma has joined
  254. lumi has left
  255. lskdjf has joined
  256. Ge0rG has left
  257. remko has joined
  258. ralphm has left
  259. moparisthebest has joined
  260. moparisthebest has left
  261. blabla has left
  262. moparisthebest has left
  263. remko has joined
  264. Martin has joined
  265. Ge0rG has left
  266. daniel has left
  267. goffi has joined
  268. lskdjf has joined
  269. jubalh has joined
  270. Ge0rG has left
  271. lumi has joined
  272. vanitasvitae has left
  273. remko has left
  274. remko has joined
  275. ralphm has joined
  276. blabla has left
  277. Ge0rG has left
  278. winfried has joined
  279. Ge0rG has left
  280. Martin has left
  281. blabla has left
  282. Martin has joined
  283. Alex has left
  284. hannes has joined
  285. Ge0rG has left
  286. Martin has left
  287. Steve Kille has joined
  288. Ge0rG has left
  289. ralphm has left
  290. Steve Kille has left
  291. Ge0rG has left
  292. Flow Shouldn't there be an edge from "Rejected" to "Experimental" in xep1 § 8.1?
  293. Ge0rG has left
  294. Tobias has left
  295. Tobias has joined
  296. tux has left
  297. Ge0rG has left
  298. blabla has left
  299. jubalh has left
  300. Ge0rG has left
  301. hannes has joined
  302. hannes has joined
  303. Dave Cridland Flow, Hmmm. Possibly. I think Council should probably be able to fish things out of Rejected etc, and also push things back from Proposed to Experimental (which I think has happened).
  304. Ge0rG has left
  305. Dave Cridland has left
  306. Kev I've whinged about this for years, but never got traction with anyone else to fix it.
  307. Kev No, Council can't technically fish things out of Rejected, or from Proposed back to Experimental, although past Councils have ignored this and done it anyway.
  308. Kev I think XEP1 should be fixed to allow both.
  309. Flow I don't think that it needs council to get from rejected to experimental
  310. jubalh has joined
  311. Ge0rG has left
  312. daniel has joined
  313. lumi has left
  314. Steve Kille has joined
  315. Ge0rG has left
  316. hannes has joined
  317. jubalh has joined
  318. Ge0rG has left
  319. Alex has joined
  320. lumi has joined
  321. lskdjf has joined
  322. matlag has left
  323. Ge0rG has left
  324. waqas has joined
  325. waqas has left
  326. hannes has joined
  327. jubalh has joined
  328. Guus has left
  329. ralphm has left
  330. Steve Kille has left
  331. Dave Cridland Flow, I think it probably does. It's the moral equivalent of resubmitting as a new ProtoXEP.
  332. Guus has left
  333. Ge0rG But without a new number, I hope
  334. Guus has left
  335. la|r|ma has joined
  336. Ge0rG has left
  337. remko has joined
  338. hannes has joined
  339. vanitasvitae has left
  340. Lance has joined
  341. hannes has joined
  342. lskdjf has joined
  343. hannes has joined
  344. Ge0rG has left
  345. ralphm has joined
  346. remko has joined
  347. bra has left
  348. bra has joined
  349. blabla has left
  350. ralphm has joined
  351. winfried has left
  352. Ge0rG has left
  353. ralphm has left
  354. ralphm has joined
  355. Flow How can it be the "moral equivalent" if the previous XEP state was Experimental. What justifies a downgrade to ProtoXEP?
  356. Dave Cridland has left
  357. Zash has left
  358. vanitasvitae has left
  359. Zash has left
  360. goffi has left
  361. remko has joined
  362. blabla has joined
  363. blabla has joined
  364. jubalh has joined
  365. tux has joined
  366. blabla has left
  367. jjrh has left
  368. Ge0rG has left
  369. tux has joined
  370. Alex has left
  371. Alex has joined
  372. remko has joined
  373. ralphm has joined
  374. Dave Cridland has left
  375. Ge0rG has left
  376. Alex has left
  377. winfried has joined
  378. jubalh has joined
  379. remko has joined
  380. Guus has left
  381. lumi has left
  382. Ge0rG has left
  383. lskdjf has left
  384. jjrh has left
  385. Alex has left
  386. Dave Cridland has left
  387. jjrh has left
  388. Guus has left
  389. Guus has left
  390. zinid has left
  391. Ge0rG has left
  392. ralphm has joined
  393. Dave Cridland has left
  394. goffi has joined
  395. lovetox has joined
  396. Dave Cridland has left
  397. ralphm has left
  398. Ge0rG has left
  399. Zash has left
  400. zinid has left
  401. Alex has left
  402. Alex has joined
  403. jubalh has joined
  404. lovetox has left
  405. Ge0rG has left
  406. SamWhited has left
  407. remko has joined
  408. Dave Cridland has left
  409. Ge0rG has left
  410. Dave Cridland has left
  411. Guus has left
  412. SamWhited has left
  413. ralphm has left
  414. Guus has left
  415. Dave Cridland has left
  416. Ge0rG has left
  417. ralphm has joined
  418. Ge0rG has left
  419. jubalh has left
  420. remko has joined
  421. remko has joined
  422. Ge0rG has left
  423. Dave Cridland has left
  424. ralphm has left
  425. Ge0rG has left
  426. ralphm has joined
  427. remko has joined
  428. Ge0rG has left
  429. Dave Cridland has left
  430. lskdjf has left
  431. remko has left
  432. lskdjf has left
  433. moparisthebest has left
  434. jubalh has left
  435. Ge0rG has left
  436. ralphm has left
  437. ralphm has joined
  438. lumi has joined
  439. valo has joined
  440. Alex has left
  441. Ge0rG has left
  442. moparisthebest has joined
  443. Alex has joined
  444. lovetox has joined
  445. Ge0rG has left
  446. jubalh has left
  447. remko has joined
  448. ralphm has joined
  449. ralphm has joined
  450. lovetox has left
  451. lovetox has joined
  452. lovetox has left
  453. lovetox has joined
  454. Ge0rG has left
  455. jubalh has joined
  456. remko has joined
  457. SamWhited has left
  458. SamWhited has left
  459. SamWhited has joined
  460. ralphm has left
  461. ralphm has joined
  462. bra has left
  463. bra has joined
  464. Ge0rG has left
  465. lskdjf has left
  466. lskdjf has left
  467. pep. has left
  468. remko has joined
  469. lskdjf has left
  470. lskdjf has left
  471. ralphm has left
  472. Ge0rG has left
  473. SamWhited has left
  474. SamWhited has joined
  475. ralphm has joined
  476. lskdjf has left
  477. Ge0rG has left
  478. remko has joined
  479. ralphm has left
  480. ralphm has joined
  481. daniel has left
  482. goffi has left
  483. Ge0rG has left
  484. jubalh has left
  485. Lance has joined
  486. remko has joined
  487. winfried has left
  488. winfried has joined