XSF Discussion - 2018-01-22

  1. moparisthebest

    Flow, haha nice when you search for a lib and someone you are familiar with has already written a good looking one, thanks for java-pinning :)

  2. Ge0rG

    m0xie? I wouldn't trust him.

  3. edhelas trust no one

  4. Ge0rG

    Oh, no. m0xie did android-pinning. Completely separate project.

  5. moparisthebest

    you have to be careful because loads of projects use the terms 'public key pinning' and 'certificate pinning' interchangeably when they are completely not, or they'll say 'TLS pinning', and you have to figure out what they actually do

  6. moparisthebest

    java-pinning looks to support regular java and android, and both cert and public key pinning (public key being the only good acceptable version imho :))

  7. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: how do you do revocation with pkp?

  8. moparisthebest

    you release a new app with an updated set of pins, then switch it on the server

  9. moparisthebest

    same deal with cert pinning though

  10. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: that's rotation, not revocation

  11. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, how do you revoke without pkp ? iirc revocation essentially doesn't work and people just don't do it

  12. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: OCSP stapling is probably the least broken way

  13. moparisthebest

    it's the same with pkp though, you supply 3 pins, only 1 of which is active, if you have to revoke you do it and use one of the other keys already pinned

  14. Ge0rG

    Yes, but how can you tell the client that the pin for the stolen cert is not trustworthy any more?

  15. moparisthebest

    It's not in the pinned set anymore, either in hpkp header or your new app

  16. Flow

    moparisthebest, you are welcome :)

  17. vanitasvitae

    is there a xep for voice messages? Or does for example conversations just http_uploades a short audio file?

  18. edhelas

    http_upload + SIMS should be the way to go to me

  19. edhelas

    actually i think that Movim is showing a little audio player when he receive an audio file by SIMS :)

  20. vanitasvitae

    edhelas, ah thank you :)

  21. Ge0rG

    Sigh. "ceth4275@red42.net wants to subscribe"

  22. moparisthebest

    hehe new version of sslh released, one of the features is support for letsencrypt tls-sni-* challenges, you know, the ones they just disabled and removed from the spec :)

  23. Ge0rG

    because there was some security issue in the protocol

  24. moparisthebest

    well, common implementations of SNI, but yes

  25. moparisthebest

    "blocking RTTs at startup are a soluble problem here."

  26. moparisthebest

    hehe autocorrect is an endless source of entertainment

  27. Kev

    What's the autocorrect?

  28. moparisthebest

    solvable -> soluble

  29. moparisthebest

    unless he meant we could dissolve that problem

  30. Kev

    That's not an autocorrect.

  31. Kev

    Or, at least, it needn't have been.

  32. Kev

    Soluble means able-to-be-solved.

  33. Kev

    (As well as able to be dissolved)

  34. moparisthebest

    does it? hmm learn something new every day

  35. Ge0rG

    Always have your Websters handy when Brits write.

  36. moparisthebest

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soluble says nothing about 'solving' but turns out indeed that's definition #2 from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soluble

  37. moparisthebest

    guess I need to start checking it as a british -> american dictionary :)

  38. jonasw

    just learn en_GB :)

  39. moparisthebest

    I don't have time to learn what's obviously an entirely new language :P

  40. Kev

    Or, as we like to call it, English.

  41. jonasw

    although, in the XSF, en_GB isn’t accepted anyways :(

  42. moparisthebest

    I've talked with brits every day for going on 13 years and *still* learn random new things all the time, it's ridiculous

  43. Kev

    I don't think this is an en_GB thing.

  44. Kev

    At least, all the dictionaries I've just looked at have both meanings.

  45. jonasw

    moparisthebest, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soluble#Adjective

  46. jonasw

    even wiktionary has it ;-)

  47. moparisthebest

    except wikipedia, but fair, I've just never seen it used that way, we just say 'solvable'

  48. jonasw

    moparisthebest, wikipedia isn’t a dictionary ;-)

  49. Kev

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/soluble seems to suggest it's American as well.

  50. jonasw

    (moparisthebest, in contrast to wiktionary, which even has the definition)

  51. moparisthebest

    well at least I'm not the only one https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2195485/proving-a-group-is-soluble-solvable-if-you-are-american

  52. Ge0rG

    Maybe it's just the Brits attempting to use less common words to implicate some kind of eliteliteraryism.

  53. moparisthebest

    Outside of the US it's really called "soluble"? As in "dissolves in a solvent"? Why on earth is it called that? – Stella Biderman Mar 21 '17 at 16:19 ; my thoughts exactly Stella :)

  54. Kev

    I know, it doesn't make much sense. Capable of dissolving in a solvent should obviously be solvable.

  55. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, half of the time, it’s also French people using the original word with an English accent.

  56. Link Mauve

    (It’s also « soluble » in French.)

  57. Ge0rG recently rewatched Episode I, and in the German synchro the trade federation folks had a French accent. It was almost comical, but not in a funny way.

  58. Dave Cridland

    Weirdly, I wrote "solvable" and decided that soundsed like it was a Maths problem, so changed it.

  59. Kev

    That's "Math" if you're en_US. Happy to help.

  60. moparisthebest

    he is correct

  61. Dave Cridland

    But weirdly, "Mathematics" in both.

  62. moparisthebest

    or Arithmetic

  63. SamWhited

    Oh, I thought it was Maths instead of Mathematics, not Maths instead of Math. That's confusing.

  64. moparisthebest

    I swear british and american are two different languages that just share a common ancestor in english :P

  65. Kev

    Arithmetic, and Maths are not the same :)

  66. jonasw

    moparisthebest, so you’re saying en_GB and en_US are like C and C++?

  67. intosi


  68. Kev

    Arithmetic's the numbery bit of Maths.

  69. intosi

    jonasw: C and BCPL, in order ;)

  70. moparisthebest

    I don't like the connotation that US is the C++ but, otherwise yes

  71. Dave Cridland

    moparisthebest, "The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language" - attrib George Bernard Shaw.

  72. Dave Cridland

    moparisthebest, So you prefer the idea that the US is simple and error prone?

  73. intosi

    Great, language wars.

  74. moparisthebest

    better than complicated and error prone

  75. jonasw

    moparisthebest, oh, I didn’t mean to imply that either is eithre

  76. moparisthebest

    also I prefer tabs for code indentation, and nano for an editor, might as well get all the wars out of the way :)

  77. jonasw

    just that they share a relationship

  78. jonasw

    moparisthebest, does nano edit XEPs now?

  79. Kev

    Tabs for indentation are obviously superior.

  80. Kev

    Is nano actually an editor?

  81. jonasw

    we should add emacs or something to the editor team

  82. SamWhited

    The U.S. is the C++ to GB's C… in theory it was an enhancement, but in practice it's overly complicated and messy.

  83. Dave Cridland

    "we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language" - Oscar Wilde.

  84. intosi

    As long as we can all agree that Dutch is Python, I'm fine with whatever analogy you can come up with for English and Murican.

  85. Dave Cridland

    intosi, Dutch is Erlang. Probably great, but nobody understands it.

  86. intosi

    I thought that was Russian.

  87. moparisthebest

    what would Rust be, esperanto? technically superior but no one wants to be bothered learning another language?

  88. jonasw

    Dave Cridland, if you want to go by that analogy, I’d recommend finnish instead of dutch

  89. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Finnish is Perl6. Impossible to understand and most people are convinced it doesn't really exist.

  90. SamWhited

    nah, Rust is currently one of the most desirable languages to learn, no one ever really cared about esperanto

  91. intosi

    That's what the Esperantists said ;)

  92. moparisthebest

    nah I'm still hoping rust takes over the world :) I hope it's not an esperanto

  93. Dave Cridland

    Rust is actually getting serious code written in it. WHich is more than can be said for D, for example.

  94. intosi

    Fair enough. I'm fairly language agnostic anyway. Except for Java, which triggers some strong emotions. And PHP, but that's not a language.

  95. SamWhited

    We're starting to adopt Rust at work which has been nice. Unfortunately all the tooling still sucks; they're making very similar mistakes to what Go did and ignoring that people want to be able to host their own packages internally without jumping through hoops

  96. SamWhited

    (or rather, the tools for packaging in Rust are great, they're just lacking in features)

  97. Ge0rG

    Wow, some strong emotions in this place.

  98. Guus


  99. SouL

    Lovely discussion, thanks for the fun guys :D

  100. edhelas

    http://lists.jitsi.org/pipermail/dev/2018-January/036563.html nice <3

  101. edhelas

    so basically I'll not do any kind of effort to try to be compatible with Jitsi

  102. edhelas

    except maybe for the videobridge but they have quite no documentation so meh…

  103. edhelas

    so as far as I know, Movim is the only modern web client that is doing (pure) Jingle + WebRTC at the moment

  104. moparisthebest

    I want to get that into conversations so bad

  105. moparisthebest

    an impl to test with and against is a big bonus :P

  106. moparisthebest

    I'm more of a watch the wire guy than a read the specs guy...

  107. edhelas

    remind me of buddycloud and their "own pubsub implementation" http://buddycloud.com/

  108. edhelas

    hopefully we still have people like Goffi that are willing to work with the others and make the standard interroperable

  109. Link Mauve

    edhelas, you haven’t checked jsxc?

  110. Link Mauve

    It also does that.

  111. Link Mauve

    moparisthebest, checking what Jitsi Videobridge does would be quite helpful.

  112. edhelas

    will have a look