XSF Discussion - 2018-01-22

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  203. moparisthebest Flow, haha nice when you search for a lib and someone you are familiar with has already written a good looking one, thanks for java-pinning :)
  204. Ge0rG m0xie? I wouldn't trust him.
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  206. edhelas trust no one
  207. Ge0rG Oh, no. m0xie did android-pinning. Completely separate project.
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  209. moparisthebest you have to be careful because loads of projects use the terms 'public key pinning' and 'certificate pinning' interchangeably when they are completely not, or they'll say 'TLS pinning', and you have to figure out what they actually do
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  211. moparisthebest java-pinning looks to support regular java and android, and both cert and public key pinning (public key being the only good acceptable version imho :))
  212. Ge0rG moparisthebest: how do you do revocation with pkp?
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  214. moparisthebest you release a new app with an updated set of pins, then switch it on the server
  215. moparisthebest same deal with cert pinning though
  216. Ge0rG moparisthebest: that's rotation, not revocation
  217. moparisthebest Ge0rG, how do you revoke without pkp ? iirc revocation essentially doesn't work and people just don't do it
  218. Ge0rG moparisthebest: OCSP stapling is probably the least broken way
  219. moparisthebest it's the same with pkp though, you supply 3 pins, only 1 of which is active, if you have to revoke you do it and use one of the other keys already pinned
  220. Ge0rG Yes, but how can you tell the client that the pin for the stolen cert is not trustworthy any more?
  221. moparisthebest It's not in the pinned set anymore, either in hpkp header or your new app
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  227. Flow moparisthebest, you are welcome :)
  228. vanitasvitae is there a xep for voice messages? Or does for example conversations just http_uploades a short audio file?
  229. edhelas http_upload + SIMS should be the way to go to me
  230. edhelas actually i think that Movim is showing a little audio player when he receive an audio file by SIMS :)
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  233. vanitasvitae edhelas, ah thank you :)
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  237. Ge0rG Sigh. "ceth4275@red42.net wants to subscribe"
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  240. moparisthebest hehe new version of sslh released, one of the features is support for letsencrypt tls-sni-* challenges, you know, the ones they just disabled and removed from the spec :)
  241. Ge0rG because there was some security issue in the protocol
  242. moparisthebest well, common implementations of SNI, but yes
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  254. moparisthebest "blocking RTTs at startup are a soluble problem here."
  255. moparisthebest hehe autocorrect is an endless source of entertainment
  256. Kev What's the autocorrect?
  257. moparisthebest solvable -> soluble
  258. moparisthebest unless he meant we could dissolve that problem
  259. Kev That's not an autocorrect.
  260. Kev Or, at least, it needn't have been.
  261. Kev Soluble means able-to-be-solved.
  262. Kev (As well as able to be dissolved)
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  265. moparisthebest does it? hmm learn something new every day
  266. Ge0rG Always have your Websters handy when Brits write.
  267. moparisthebest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soluble says nothing about 'solving' but turns out indeed that's definition #2 from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soluble
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  269. moparisthebest guess I need to start checking it as a british -> american dictionary :)
  270. jonasw just learn en_GB :)
  271. moparisthebest I don't have time to learn what's obviously an entirely new language :P
  272. Kev Or, as we like to call it, English.
  273. jonasw although, in the XSF, en_GB isn’t accepted anyways :(
  274. moparisthebest I've talked with brits every day for going on 13 years and *still* learn random new things all the time, it's ridiculous
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  277. Kev I don't think this is an en_GB thing.
  278. Kev At least, all the dictionaries I've just looked at have both meanings.
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  280. jonasw moparisthebest, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soluble#Adjective
  281. jonasw even wiktionary has it ;-)
  282. moparisthebest except wikipedia, but fair, I've just never seen it used that way, we just say 'solvable'
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  284. jonasw moparisthebest, wikipedia isn’t a dictionary ;-)
  285. Kev https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/soluble seems to suggest it's American as well.
  286. jonasw (moparisthebest, in contrast to wiktionary, which even has the definition)
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  288. moparisthebest well at least I'm not the only one https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2195485/proving-a-group-is-soluble-solvable-if-you-are-american
  289. Ge0rG Maybe it's just the Brits attempting to use less common words to implicate some kind of eliteliteraryism.
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  291. moparisthebest Outside of the US it's really called "soluble"? As in "dissolves in a solvent"? Why on earth is it called that? – Stella Biderman Mar 21 '17 at 16:19 ; my thoughts exactly Stella :)
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  293. Kev I know, it doesn't make much sense. Capable of dissolving in a solvent should obviously be solvable.
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  303. Link Mauve Ge0rG, half of the time, it’s also French people using the original word with an English accent.
  304. Link Mauve (It’s also « soluble » in French.)
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  308. Ge0rG recently rewatched Episode I, and in the German synchro the trade federation folks had a French accent. It was almost comical, but not in a funny way.
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  331. Dave Cridland Weirdly, I wrote "solvable" and decided that soundsed like it was a Maths problem, so changed it.
  332. Kev That's "Math" if you're en_US. Happy to help.
  333. moparisthebest he is correct
  334. Dave Cridland But weirdly, "Mathematics" in both.
  335. moparisthebest or Arithmetic
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  337. SamWhited Oh, I thought it was Maths instead of Mathematics, not Maths instead of Math. That's confusing.
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  339. moparisthebest I swear british and american are two different languages that just share a common ancestor in english :P
  340. Kev Arithmetic, and Maths are not the same :)
  341. jonasw moparisthebest, so you’re saying en_GB and en_US are like C and C++?
  342. intosi :)
  343. Kev Arithmetic's the numbery bit of Maths.
  344. intosi jonasw: C and BCPL, in order ;)
  345. moparisthebest I don't like the connotation that US is the C++ but, otherwise yes
  346. Dave Cridland moparisthebest, "The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language" - attrib George Bernard Shaw.
  347. Dave Cridland moparisthebest, So you prefer the idea that the US is simple and error prone?
  348. intosi Great, language wars.
  349. moparisthebest better than complicated and error prone
  350. jonasw moparisthebest, oh, I didn’t mean to imply that either is eithre
  351. moparisthebest also I prefer tabs for code indentation, and nano for an editor, might as well get all the wars out of the way :)
  352. jonasw just that they share a relationship
  353. jonasw moparisthebest, does nano edit XEPs now?
  354. Kev Tabs for indentation are obviously superior.
  355. Kev Is nano actually an editor?
  356. jonasw we should add emacs or something to the editor team
  357. SamWhited The U.S. is the C++ to GB's C… in theory it was an enhancement, but in practice it's overly complicated and messy.
  358. Dave Cridland "we have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language" - Oscar Wilde.
  359. intosi As long as we can all agree that Dutch is Python, I'm fine with whatever analogy you can come up with for English and Murican.
  360. Dave Cridland intosi, Dutch is Erlang. Probably great, but nobody understands it.
  361. intosi I thought that was Russian.
  362. moparisthebest what would Rust be, esperanto? technically superior but no one wants to be bothered learning another language?
  363. jonasw Dave Cridland, if you want to go by that analogy, I’d recommend finnish instead of dutch
  364. Dave Cridland jonasw, Finnish is Perl6. Impossible to understand and most people are convinced it doesn't really exist.
  365. SamWhited nah, Rust is currently one of the most desirable languages to learn, no one ever really cared about esperanto
  366. intosi That's what the Esperantists said ;)
  367. moparisthebest nah I'm still hoping rust takes over the world :) I hope it's not an esperanto
  368. Dave Cridland Rust is actually getting serious code written in it. WHich is more than can be said for D, for example.
  369. intosi Fair enough. I'm fairly language agnostic anyway. Except for Java, which triggers some strong emotions. And PHP, but that's not a language.
  370. SamWhited We're starting to adopt Rust at work which has been nice. Unfortunately all the tooling still sucks; they're making very similar mistakes to what Go did and ignoring that people want to be able to host their own packages internally without jumping through hoops
  371. SamWhited (or rather, the tools for packaging in Rust are great, they're just lacking in features)
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  374. Ge0rG Wow, some strong emotions in this place.
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  376. Guus ❤️
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  378. SouL Lovely discussion, thanks for the fun guys :D
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  400. edhelas http://lists.jitsi.org/pipermail/dev/2018-January/036563.html nice <3
  401. edhelas so basically I'll not do any kind of effort to try to be compatible with Jitsi
  402. edhelas except maybe for the videobridge but they have quite no documentation so meh…
  403. edhelas so as far as I know, Movim is the only modern web client that is doing (pure) Jingle + WebRTC at the moment
  404. moparisthebest I want to get that into conversations so bad
  405. moparisthebest an impl to test with and against is a big bonus :P
  406. moparisthebest I'm more of a watch the wire guy than a read the specs guy...
  407. edhelas remind me of buddycloud and their "own pubsub implementation" http://buddycloud.com/
  408. edhelas hopefully we still have people like Goffi that are willing to work with the others and make the standard interroperable
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  419. Link Mauve edhelas, you haven’t checked jsxc?
  420. Link Mauve It also does that.
  421. Link Mauve moparisthebest, checking what Jitsi Videobridge does would be quite helpful.
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  423. edhelas will have a look
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