XSF Discussion - 2018-01-31

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  61. jonasw

    moparisthebest, no, attic has no XMLs

  62. moparisthebest

    scratch that idea then

  63. jonasw

    moparisthebest, FYI, CoAP is a UDP binary HTTP-ish thing; can be used over DTLS (TLS for UDP). used for IoT stuff.

  64. Ge0rG

    Acronym galore!

  65. zinid

    let's reject XEP-0368 for the drama!

  66. Ge0rG

    zinid: we've had enough drama for this year already.

  67. zinid

    Ge0rG, okay

  68. Ge0rG


  69. moparisthebest

    what drama? it's mainly trying to get IANA to do IANA stuff

  70. zinid

    IANA is too busy to add records for that marginal protocol XMP-wtf

  71. moparisthebest

    I'd think XMPP is more widely used than CoAP or managesieve

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  73. zinid

    > The primary reason for introducing CoAP over TCP [RFC0793] and TLS [RFC5246] is that some networks do not forward UDP packets. Complete blocking of UDP happens in between about 2% and 4% of terrestrial access networks, according to [EK2016].

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  75. Ge0rG

    UDP isn't used by any serious protocol anyway.

  76. zinid

    serious = HTTP or JSON based

  77. jonasw

    zinid, lol

  78. jonasw

    they do coap over tcp now

  79. jonasw

    that’s funny

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  98. Flow

    Ge0rG, QUIC?

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  101. Ge0rG

    Flow: accelerate the Internet!

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  160. jonasw

    when did council switch?

  161. jonasw

    was it before 2017-11-28 or after?

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  163. jonasw

    AFAICT first session of new council was 2017-11-29, is that correct?

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  167. derdaniel

    Hi. Could someone kill the s2s between gultsch.de and muc.xmpp.org? It's stuck again. (I think it happens when I switch certs?) thanks

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  169. jonasw

    cc @ intosi maybe?

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  172. intosi

    I'll take a look.

  173. derdaniel

    And like I said the last four times this happened. It's not urgent and you can leave it stuck if that helps you debug the issue and I will do everything in my power to help

  174. jonasw

    MattJ, maybe?

  175. Kev

    I'm trying to get the informational protoxep covering 'xmpp 2' stuff out before the summit, but it's getting tight, BTW.

  176. jonasw

    or Zash

  177. Kev

    Writing on the train at the moment.

  178. Ge0rG

    Will xmpp2 fix the s2s stuck issue?

  179. jonasw

    Kev, I’ll be happy to do some editing if that helps

  180. jonasw

    (i.e. do some more proof-reading than usual ;-))

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  182. Kev

    Ge0rG: Possibly not :)

  183. Kev

    jonasw: Ta. I think if I get anything out, it'll be useful.

  184. Kev

    Although Georg's slide stack is fairly thorough, I'd like us to have something in (proto)XEP form.

  185. intosi

    derdaniel: try again, please :)

  186. Ge0rG

    Kev: I still don't understand your reasons for that, but I'm not going to stop you

  187. intosi

    s2s:close("muc.xmpp.org", "gultsch.de"); | Closed outgoing session from muc.xmpp.org to gultsch.de | OK: Closed 1 s2s session | Result: nil s2s:close("gultsch.de", "muc.xmpp.org") | Closed 1 incoming session from gultsch.de to muc.xmpp.org | OK: Closed 1 s2s session

  188. Kev

    Ge0rG: I'm trying to produce suggested ways of addressing things too :)

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  190. daniel

    intosi: 👍

  191. Kev

    Plus, I think doing things in the context of a XEP helps (it means the IP picture is clear, etc.).

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  193. Ge0rG

    Kev: so you are not documenting what's broken but writing proto-protocol to fix it? That's great :)

  194. jonasw

    lovely :)

  195. Kev

    I'm not trying to just duplicate the slides in XEP form, no.

  196. Ge0rG

    Kev: now I'm really interested in what you propose

  197. Kev

    Nothing revolutionary.

  198. jonasw

    FWIW, even though I’m not going to be at summit, I’ll still be online to do editor tasks if needed.

  199. Ge0rG

    I hope the WebEx doesn't fail

  200. Kev

    jonasw: Thanks.

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  202. Kev

    Ge0rG: And me, I want you to give this presentation.

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  204. Kev

    Although, if it does fail, do you mind if I give a poor-man's approximation of your presentation?

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  206. Kev

    (Well, I'll do that anyway, it's a question of whether I could steal your slides)

  207. Ge0rG

    Kev: not at all. I hope that the points are sufficiently self-describing for you to present

  208. Kev

    Even for an idiot like me :)

  209. jonasw

    power-point karaoke

  210. jonasw


  211. Ge0rG attempts to imagine an idiot like Kev and fails.

  212. Kev

    jonasw: Musical chairs with power-point. When the music stops, whoever is still standing has to present the next slide.

  213. jonasw


  214. Kev

    I'm saying that now, and I've an awful feeling it's probably something someone has already done, somewhere, somewhen.

  215. jonasw

    power-point karaoke is actually a thing. you get a random slidedeck and need to make sense of it, for the amusement of the audience

  216. Ge0rG

    I remember a ppt karaoke session with Dan Kaminsky at some CCC congress, a decade ago. It was just hilarious.

  217. jonasw

    if you’re lucky, you get a really obscure slidedeck about brainfuck and happen to know something about brainfuck, but if you’re unlucky, it is about porous stones and you’re like what

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  219. daniel

    Ge0rG: was a called a power point karaoke or was it one of his actual talks?

  220. Ge0rG

    Kev: if you need any deeper content in anticipation of evil audience questions on that slide deck, feel free to let me know.

  221. Ge0rG

    daniel: it was an official powerpoint karaoke session, and Dan was "volunteered"

  222. Kev

    Ta. I did send a sub request to you, but you ignored it ;)

  223. Ge0rG

    Kev: I'm sorry, it's well possible that it got lost amidst dozens of spammer JIDs awaiting my approval.

  224. Guus

    brilliant, as soon as I press send, I spot a glaring typo.

  225. Ge0rG

    Kev: you should have used PARS

  226. Ge0rG

    Kev: but feel free to re-request now.

  227. Kev

    It was only a half hour or so ago.

  228. Kev

    I'll do so now.

  229. SamWhited

    power-point karaoke actually sounds really fun; after a few beers I imagine that would be hilarious.

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  231. jonasw

    SamWhited, it is

  232. jonasw

    even without beers :)

  233. Kev

    Oh, wait, maybe this is my fault and yax.im isn't whitelisted on isode.com

  234. Ge0rG

    Kev: I do have a mutual subscription with a JID that matches yours on the XSF application.

  235. Kev

    Yeah, I'm only using my work account while I'm travelling.

  236. Ge0rG

    Kev: and you are playing Unknown title - Unknown artist.

  237. Guus

    As time is running out (apologies for the delay), I'm cross-posting this invitation for _you_ to attend the XSF Dinner 2018 in a couple of places. Please help me spread the word! If you're interested in joining us, please RSVP by fill out a short form at https://goo.gl/forms/vgzWXyiRo5ne43yX2 but do so today!

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  239. Ge0rG

    > and yax.im isn't whitelisted on isode.com Because federation isn't a thing.

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  241. Kev

    Dame Blanche doesn't have a translation this year :(

  242. Kev

    Ge0rG: It was a sledgehammer approach to stopping spam. It's effective in that respect, but has unfortunate sideeffects.

  243. Ge0rG

    Kev: there should be a way to auto-whitelist JIDs on outgoing traffic to them.

  244. Kev

    That sounds sensible.

  245. jonasw


  246. Guus

    (As was pointed out elsewhere, the form didn't include the dinner date/time originally - it now does: it's Tomorrow, at 8.)

  247. Ge0rG

    What time will Summit start?

  248. jonasw

    10 IIRC

  249. Guus

    We'll start at 10.

  250. jonasw


  251. jonasw


  252. Guus

    local time, so yeah, CET.

  253. jonasw

    so 09:00Z

  254. Ge0rG

    That sounds like I can make it in time, and even have some coffee first.

  255. Guus


  256. daniel

    Guus: do we get a copy of the form send to us?

  257. jonasw

    is there a plan when lunch break will be?

  258. daniel

    Or do I need to take a picture of the screen?

  259. jonasw

    maybe I can sync my lunch break :)

  260. Guus

    Daniel, you should get a copy by mail (but if you can confirm that for me, that'd be great)

  261. Guus

    jonasw: we will have lunch at the venue itself, but haven't explicitly defined a time for that. When most people grow hungry, I suppose.

  262. Kev

    Guus: i got a confirmation mail.

  263. SamWhited

    Guus: I got it on members@ and summit@

  264. jonasw

    Guus, okay

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  268. Kev

    Ge0rG: "Need for ephemeral all-online-clients routing (Bare-JID + <no-archive/>?)" I'm not sure about this. I think that if it went to all clients, it should go in the archive. Else you have issues with resync due to momentary disconnects.

  269. Ge0rG

    Kev: I could imagine that as useful for (some?) CSNs

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  271. Kev

    Possibly. But then you fall into the trap of inconsistent views, don't you?

  272. jonasw

    Kev, for "typing" and "stopped typing" it doesn’t matter (a lot), and that just pollutes the archive

  273. jonasw

    active and inactive makes sense to keep

  274. Kev

    I have a somewhat contentious suggestion here, but I don't know if I'm brave enough to make it.

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  278. Guus

    Thanks Kev. Sam, you surely didn't get the confirmation mail on the mailinglist?!

  279. Ge0rG

    Kev: be brave!

  280. Ge0rG

    While we are at presence spam... > iqvxh3d3s@xmpp.tips wants to subscribe to your presence, ...

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  282. Kev

    Seems legit.

  283. jonasw

    Kev, be brave!

  284. Kev

    "Special server handling"

  285. jonasw

    Guus, "RSVP before 7PM UTC (5PM Brussels time)" I’m pretty sure this is incorrect

  286. jonasw

    but that might be the glaring typo you spoke about

  287. Kev

    I'm thinking more of deliver/read receipts here than CSN, in the first instance.

  288. jonasw

    that’d be either 4PM UTC or 8PM brussels time

  289. Kev

    But what if you get your server to handle the message metadata, instead of clients doing the collation?

  290. jonasw

    Kev, that’d be great

  291. Guus

    jonasw: the glaring typo was in the subject, but you're right, that's also a mistake.

  292. Guus

    that's what I get for rushing things at the last moment. Again, apologies.

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  294. Ge0rG

    Kev: +1 to that

  295. jonasw

    Kev, that’d be great, but maybe quite a large step for now?

  296. Kev

    Well, 'for now' is kinda nebulous here.

  297. Ge0rG

    Kev: ask daniel about sending delivery receipts on MAM catch-up

  298. Kev

    Client collation of historical delivery receipts is painful at best. Even ignoring the traffic impact.

  299. Kev

    I've just had another evil and contentious thought.

  300. Kev

    CSN aren't messages, they're presence.

  301. Ge0rG

    Kev: except when they are used as read markers

  302. jonasw

    Ge0rG, are you confusing CSN and Chat Markers?

  303. jonasw

    CSN can’t be used as read markers AFAIK

  304. daniel

    Guus: yes got the confirmation.

  305. daniel

    Ge0rG: did I mention I'm doing this now. Even though the XEPs forbids this. I'm such a bad person

  306. Ge0rG

    daniel: you are doing what now?

  307. daniel

    Sending 184 on mam catchup

  308. daniel

    Only if there isn't one in mam already of course

  309. Ge0rG

    daniel: I think we talked about it some days ago. Or maybe it was jonasw telling me how your logic works?

  310. jonasw

    I’m pretty sure that the XEP doesn’t intend to forbid that

  311. Ge0rG

    jonasw: CSN can be used as an activity marker.

  312. jonasw

    Ge0rG, but that’s not read

  313. Ge0rG

    Kev: if we redefine CSN in terms of presence, we _might_ get rid of ephemeral-message-to-all-devices.

  314. jonasw


  315. jonasw

    presence’ getting large

  316. Ge0rG

    don't forget to inject avatars and caps²

  317. Zash

    Transport csn in directed presence ?

  318. jonasw

    Kev, but then we’re getting in directed-presence semantics when you send CSN to specific contacts, don’t we?

  319. Zash

    That somehow makes sense

  320. jonasw

    I’d be worried about that

  321. jonasw

    I mean, yes, it makes sense

  322. jonasw

    but we’d have to look closely at the sematics involved in sending directed presence to people

  323. Ge0rG

    jonasw: what's wrong with directed presence?

  324. jonasw

    Ge0rG, I’m not 100% sure, but that would break broadcast of global presence changes, wouldn’t it?

  325. Kev

    As far as I can see, CSN in directed presence would work, and makes lots of things better.

  326. Kev

    So, my current strawman is that we move CSN to directed presence, we have the server handle receipts as special data, and that way we avoid (I think) ephemeral bare-JID messages.

  327. jonasw

    Ge0rG, if I send you directed presence with CSN, would my subsequent global presence change to away (a) not be broadcasted to you or (b) break the CSN I sent you before?

  328. jonasw

    Kev, I love it

  329. jonasw

    if it actually works :)

  330. Ge0rG

    Kev: we might be able to come up with other use-cases for ephemeral bare-JID messages, if we think about it hard enough.

  331. Kev

    Maybe. But it's not clear to me that we can't also solve them.

  332. SaltyBones

    Is there any good reading material on bare-JID messages somewhere? Because in my head all user generated messages should be bare-JID and all server generated messsages should be directed but I am probably missing a lot of use-cases.

  333. Kev

    What I'm trying to avoid is special-casing such that some messages don't hit the archive and some do.

  334. jonasw

    SaltyBones, file transfers are usually to full jid

  335. Kev

    SaltyBones: Georg's slide deck is online somewhere, I think. Ge0rG?

  336. jonasw

    (if they’re happening in-band)

  337. Ge0rG

    SaltyBones, Kev: https://op-co.de/tmp/whats-wrong-with-xmpp-2017.pdf

  338. SaltyBones

    jonasw, maybe we don't need to discuss this here but: why?

  339. Kev

    Ta muchly.

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  341. Ge0rG

    Please reload, forgot to refresh the PDF export.

  342. jonasw

    SaltyBones, I don’t think it makes sense to broadcast a file to all clients by default.

  343. jonasw

    SaltyBones, think memory use, battery use etc. on mobiles

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  345. SaltyBones

    Ge0rG, 208-01-30.00 :)

  346. SaltyBones

    Is that the room it's in? :)

  347. Ge0rG

    SaltyBones: perfect

  348. Ge0rG

    Sorry, gotta go now.

  349. Kev

    jonasw: No, it doesn't make sense to broadcast it to any clients by default, but to hold it on the server until a client wants it :)

  350. SaltyBones

    jonasw, they don't have to accept it but how would the user chose which client to send it to? It's usually transparent to him what the contact is doing with his devices...

  351. SaltyBones

    Maybe opaque not transparent. :p

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  353. jonasw

    SaltyBones, offering is different from actually transferring the file

  354. jonasw

    once one client accepted the offer, you wouldn’t want to send your file to *all* clients

  355. jonasw

    you’d negotiate a transport with that client, and if the transport is in-band, you’d use messages to the full jid

  356. jonasw

    (to avoid other clients getting spammed with a transfer they didn’t accept)

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  358. SaltyBones

    Ah, I see. So the client sends directed even though the user only sent bare-JID.

  359. jonasw


  360. SaltyBones

    Okay, I see maybe the distinction should be automatic

  361. SaltyBones

    vs interactive

  362. jonasw

    yes, users should of course never touch full JIDs

  363. jonasw

    if anything, they should touch a list of clients of the peer, with their disco identities

  364. jonasw

    but no full jIDs

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  366. SaltyBones

    Yeah, and even that I would strongly oppose. :)

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  380. SamWhited

    Guus: oh, sorry, I thought you were looking for confirmation that the survey went out

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  383. Guus

    SamWhited: 👍

  384. ralphm

    Everyone, please read Guus' e-mail and fill in the XSF Dinner form therein.

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  400. Guus

    Dinner update: I've just been in contact with the restaurant. If people would like to have a vegetarian dinner, that'll be possible. Some of the menu items are vegetarian (or will be slightly modified to be vegetarian). For a main course, there can be a pasta. If you're interested in a vegatarian option, please add that as a comment to the form (and tell the waiter tomorrow, when ordering)

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  413. Kev

    And there's always the option of A Tomato.

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  422. Guus

    to consume, or to throw?

  423. intosi

    Guus: there's a history there.

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  440. Kev

    This is not helpful rendering, but here's a very rough preview of my xmpp2 thoughts - https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkcbdwpxivg41gp/multi-client.html?dl=0

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  448. Steve Kille

    "not helpful" is quite an understatement

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  450. Kev

    I'm sure everyone can read HTML.

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  468. Guus

    Kev, you're getting awefully close to that guy from the Matrix. "All I see is blonde, red head"

  469. Guus

    (apart from the fact that that's the guy that ends up killing everyone, obviously)

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  472. jonasw


  473. jonasw

    some day, I’ll set up a web service which renders github PRs against the xep repository...

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  477. Guus

    (fun fact, I initially spelled "red head" as "redhat")

  478. Kev

    All I see is Debian, Red Hat...

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  483. SouL

    This MUC gets better and better each day hah

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  486. jonasw

    SouL, until somebody complains about too much off-topic

  487. jonasw

    then we go back to xmpp@ ;-)

  488. SouL


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  497. Zash

    jonasw: That happens to every group chat ever

  498. jonasw

    Zash, true

  499. jonasw

    except to off-topic groupchats

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  513. moparisthebest

    jonasw: can you un-archive https://trello.com/c/8arSL8aD/2-vote-on-moving-xep-0368-to-draft

  514. moparisthebest

    Still waiting on iana

  515. moparisthebest

    Hey that sounds like a good song title

  516. jonasw

    moparisthebest, done

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  518. moparisthebest


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  562. Guus

    Reminder: As time is running out (apologies for the delay), I'm cross-posting this invitation for _you_ to attend the XSF Dinner 2018 in a couple of places. Please help me spread the word! If you're interested in joining us, please RSVP by fill out a short form at https://goo.gl/forms/vgzWXyiRo5ne43yX2 but do so today!

  563. moparisthebest has joined

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  567. jonasw

    Guus, maybe highlight all people in the participants list by their nickname here?

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  578. Guus

    I'll do that as a last resort :)

  579. moparisthebest has joined

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  582. jonasw


  583. jonasw

    the earlier they know the better?

  584. andy has left

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  586. Holger

    Seems xmpp.net is "too busy" quite often?

  587. intosi

    Can happen.

  588. jonasw

    I still think there’s a bug with the queue manager there

  589. intosi

    But not being able to submit any domains is perhaps a bit rich :)

  590. mimi89999 has joined

  591. intosi

    jonasw: very likely.

  592. jonasw

    I didn’t get the debug logs I asked for a few weeks ago and I didn’t have time to persue it since then

  593. intosi

    Did you ask for debug logs?

  594. Holger

    Ok. I'll wait with shutting down check.messaging.one then.

  595. jonasw

    intosi, I asked for somebody to lend me a hand for gathering information, yeah

  596. jonasw

    weeks ago, probably last year

  597. intosi

    Where did you ask?

  598. intosi

    Should be running again, FWIW.

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  604. jonasw

    intosi, iteam@

  605. jonasw

    intosi, specifically MR 20171215T10:36:44Z 000 <jonasw>  can somebody take a look at the logs, we seem to have a stuck queue again

  606. jonasw

    so yeah, several weeks, last year :)

  607. jonasw

    but then there were the holidays etc and I kinda lost track

  608. Guus

    is this that issue again where malformed characters cause the queue processing to stagnate?

  609. Guus

    that was a weird one

  610. jonasw


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  614. intosi

    I might have a clue why that happens.

  615. jonasw

    that’d be great

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  633. Ge0rG

    Normally a client does disco#items on its service domain to find MUCs, File Upload and other nifty services. However, it is possible to have things like File Upload on the service domain. How is a client supposed to find out?

  634. Zash

    Disco info the domain first

  635. Zash

    To see if it even supports disco#items

  636. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if it doesn't support either?

  637. Zash

    And the account itself too

  638. Zash

    Disco#info all the things

  639. Ge0rG

    Roundtrips all the way

  640. Zash

    Ge0rG: what if?

  641. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if what.

  642. Zash

    What if whatif what

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  648. Zash

    Ge0rG: What if what don't support what ?

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  651. Ge0rG

    Zash: what if the service domain doesn't support disco#info

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  653. Zash

    Ge0rG: Then it's broken

  654. Tobias


  655. Ge0rG

    Zash: so you want to tell me disco#info is mandatory and disco#items is optional?

  656. Tobias

    it's kind of a basic feature

  657. Zash

    And probably won't support disco#items either

  658. Tobias


  659. Guus has joined

  660. Zash

    Ge0rG: Yes

  661. Ge0rG

    So I'm supposed to disco#info my service domain, then to disco#items it, then to disco#info each item.

  662. Zash

    At least I think so

  663. Ge0rG

    But if I disco#info my service domain, I'm not doing it in a code path where I'm collecting features, only checking for disco#items support

  664. Zash

    Ge0rG: Or do both kinds in parallel, and live with the possibility of an error

  665. Ge0rG

    Do I need to disco#items each of the items of my service domain's disco#items?

  666. Ge0rG

    It's disco#items all the way down!

  667. Zash

    I assume you want some limit

  668. Ge0rG

    Zash: do I?

  669. xnyhps has joined

  670. Tobias

    Ge0rG, if you want to support that, it's what you have to do

  671. Ge0rG

    Tobias: I don't want to. Do I _have_ to?

  672. Zash

    Ge0rG: You don't have to do anything

  673. Tobias

    If you want to discover a File Upload component that hides some levels down

  674. Tobias

    you don't have to support that

  675. Tobias

    I'd probably not go further than 1 or 2 levels down and stop there

  676. Ge0rG

    My question is: is a client supposed to discover a File Upload on it's direct service domain?

  677. Zash

    Survey time?

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  679. Zash

    Ge0rG: Same as with proxy65

  680. Ge0rG

    Zash: can you un-redirect that answer, please?

  681. Zash

    Nothing about those require a separate domain

  682. Ge0rG


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  685. Zash

    You as a client dev will want to support both setups

  686. Zash

    Both exist in the wild

  687. Ge0rG assumes this is a pun on behalf of a server developer and admin deploying such a setup.

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  689. Zash

    I think I moved all the file transfer helpers to my main domain, yes

  690. Ge0rG

    Zash: you are not the person I was talking of.

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  693. Zash

    Well, still

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  698. Ge0rG

    "You received a message encrypted with OMEMO but your client doesnt support OMEMO." *sigh*

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  700. Guus

    monar, Hantu.sc, bg, Dwisnewski, Holger, MattJ (and Ethan), michalwski: if you want to join us at dinner tomorrow, please RSVP at https://goo.gl/forms/vgzWXyiRo5ne43yX2 - do so today please!

  701. Guus

    (as well as anyone else that feels like joining)

  702. Ge0rG

    I wish I could

  703. intosi

    Anyone who wants the vegetarian option: mention it in the notes at the bottom of the form.

  704. zinid

    Ge0rG, are you hungry?

  705. Ge0rG

    zinid: yes

  706. Holger

    I'm too stingy.

  707. Holger

    Ge0rG could borrow me his member pass.

  708. Holger

    I could pretend to be Ge0rG.

  709. Ge0rG

    Holger: are you attending?

  710. zinid

    Holger, just always say that we need XMPP2.0

  711. Holger

    Ge0rG: Yeah.

  712. Holger

    zinid: :-)

  713. Zash

    We are all Ge0rG on this blessed day

  714. Ge0rG

    Holger: I wouldn't mind you taking my position at the Dinner, if this is okay with the Org.

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  716. Ge0rG

    Zash: in that case you need to wear a black fedora hat and politely troll everyone.

  717. SaltyBones

    Ge0rG, you are not coming?

  718. Ge0rG

    SaltyBones: no

  719. SaltyBones

    That's a bit disappointing.

  720. Zash

    Ge0rG: Actual fedora ?

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  723. Holger

    Ge0rG: That's nice thanks, but I was just kidding. I'll meet jabber.at-Mati and we'll search for a French fries stand :-)

  724. Holger

    Belgium fries.

  725. Ge0rG

    Zash: it looks like the one worn by Indiana Jones, except it's black.

  726. Ge0rG

    I pretend to be a Black Hat.

  727. Ge0rG

    Holger: last time I attended Summit, another XSF member (I wasn't one at the time) invited me to the dinner but then couldn't come for personal reasons.

  728. Guus

    "he tricked me into coming and then left me on my own."

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  734. Guus

    For what it's worth: although I appreciate the guesture - and would like to have Holger there - I'd try to avoid allowing people to trade places with non-members. That'll start to raise eyebrows fast.

  735. andy has left

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  737. Ge0rG

    Guus: alright

  738. zinid has left

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  741. Guus

    obviously, everyone is welcome, but I suggest with stick with who's paying for what as defined: the XSF will pick up the tab for members and sponsors only.

  742. alameyo has left

  743. Ge0rG

    Guus: this is a very understandable position

  744. Kev has left

  745. Holger

    Guus: Sure, that's fine.

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  762. intosi

    jonasw: you have an incoming PR

  763. jonasw

    intosi, cool!

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  766. jonasw

    that looks sane

  767. jonasw

    thank you :)

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  771. Guus

    that's fixing the observatory? nice!

  772. jonasw

    I think so

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  775. zinid

    the observatory will become usable again?

  776. zinid

    last time I checked it said GTFO

  777. Ge0rG

    zinid: it has your IP address hardcoded.

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  779. jonasw

    intosi, https://xmpp.net/result.php?domain=jabber.org&type=client that seems wrong?

  780. jonasw

    ah, nevermind, that’s probably v6 going wrong

  781. jonasw

    can we get ipv6 support?

  782. Guus

    also, dns and jabber.org are not friends at the moment

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  798. zinid

    is jabber.org maintained?

  799. jjrh has left

  800. Ge0rG

    in theory, yes

  801. zinid

    Ge0rG, I assumed in practice ;)

  802. Ge0rG

    I'm attempting to contact the admin for some weeks now.

  803. zinid

    who is the admin?

  804. Ge0rG

    zinid: stpeter

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  807. zinid


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  925. Dave Cridland

    Jabber.org the XMPP server?

  926. intosi

    zinid: why?

  927. jubalh has joined

  928. intosi

    There are DNS issues. If days had more than 24 hours, those would've been fully resolved.

  929. intosi

    It's high on my to-do.

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