XSF Discussion - 2018-02-03

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  91. Flow Tobias, how/where did you learn about those two I-Ds?
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  110. Tobias The Twitter realms
  111. Tobias Will see if I get around reading them on the 🚆
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  115. Flow Tobias, kk :)
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  130. zinid Failed outbound s2s EXTERNAL authentication zinid.ru -> jabber.org ( Authentication failed: Peer provided no SASL mechanisms; most likely it doesn't accept our certificate
  131. zinid does anybody know when SASL EXTERNAL will be fixed on jabber.org?
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  152. Tobias zinid, yeah...DNS will be fixed.
  153. Tobias zinid, currently a lot people are busy doing FOSDEM things though
  154. zinid I don't think this is DNS problem
  155. zinid this is a problem in certificate verification
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  157. Tobias oh
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  160. zinid jabber.org's server doesn't accept LE certificates for example
  161. Tobias Flow, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-architecture-00#section-2.2 sounds tricky to do in a federated world, unless the "Authentication Service" can federate with others
  162. Tobias zinid, i'm using LE on my server and it can talk to jdev, so it supports them but there seem to be issues
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  166. zinid Tobias, that's because it authenticate your server via dialback
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  168. Tobias could be
  169. zinid but not every server is running dialback module, and more server will stop using it in the future
  170. zinid but not every server is running dialback module, and more servers will stop using it in the future
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  209. SaltyBones Tobias: so if the authentication service is trusted this is not e2e and thus not like omemo/otr, right?
  210. Tobias that's the question
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  223. Flow Tobias, not sure if it is tricky in a federated system, but if you don't have a central authentication authority and can't cryptographically bind your identity with your key, your only option is probably something like fingerprint verification and/or TOFU
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  227. Tobias right, in the end there are still people who want end to end verification when they meet
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  233. Tobias "By definition, the AS is invested with a large amount of trust. A malicious AS can impersonate - or allow an attacker to impersonate - any user of the system. This risk can be mitigated by publishing the binding between identities and keys in a public log such as Key Transparency (KT) [KeyTransparency]."
  234. Tobias Flow, they just bolt heavy KT on it and be done with it
  235. Tobias wonder how that scales, these KT logs become quite large
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  238. SaltyBones Tobias, have you found the corresponding mailing list discussion already?
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  242. Tobias there doesn't ssem to be one, currently it's just a personal draft
  243. SaltyBones Yeah, I can't find anything either.
  244. Tobias Flow, also https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-architecture-00#section-3.1.6 :) "should be able to interoperate"
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  248. Tobias at least not a MAY :)
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  252. SaltyBones Okay, from what I can find they don't even state how this is supposed to work so one can check.
  253. SaltyBones And the reference to the protocol has no link. :p
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  256. Tobias Federated authentication is tricky
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  262. SaltyBones Is that this: https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/message-security-layer-a-modern-take-on-securing-communication-f16964b79642 ?
  263. SaltyBones Tobias, but for proper e2e you need e2e verification anyway...
  264. SaltyBones You can get away without it if you have decent ratcheting, I suppose.
  265. Tobias I did a federated authentication thing for iot. But there I hard linked the crypto to the network layer (IPv6 address)
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  267. Tobias That's not directly possible with free choice DNS names so we would need a different system for XMPP
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  272. SaltyBones "hard linked"?
  273. SaltyBones So if a device is compromised you throw it away because the key cannot be changed?
  274. SaltyBones (Seems to be one of the few cases where this might not be problem.)
  275. Tobias If you change the key you change the address
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  277. SaltyBones Tobias, I axed: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/KN9-Dy26tBGMx4YkzY98ZDkpRTg
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  279. Tobias I linked to proto earlier. See history
  280. Tobias https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-barnes-mls-protocol/
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  282. SaltyBones Oh, cool, I'll add that!
  283. Tobias Don't know how future proof that is. It's not mentioning block chain at all
  284. SaltyBones -_-
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  287. SaltyBones Tobias, https://twitter.com/paul_pearce/status/959138611617673216
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  292. Tobias 😀
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  646. Ge0rG AES CBC is literally a block chain.
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  652. Zash !
  653. Zash Is "nano" still a cool word?
  654. Ge0rG Zash: sorry, nope
  655. Zash "nanoblockchain"
  656. Zash "microblockchain" then?
  657. Zash pico?
  658. Ge0rG "nano" was a thing when I wen to school. Which is now almost 20 years ago
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  661. Zash I was in school 20 years ago too
  662. Ge0rG Zash: I propose "eco" or "bio" because it comes without PoW
  663. waqas Yeah, enough time has passed to move to pico now
  664. Zash PicoBlockChain - PBC
  665. waqas Ge0rG: Eco has been around for too long too
  666. waqas I haven't head of Bio that much in tech however… XEP-xxxx: Bio Chains
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  668. Zash Hyperblockchains?
  669. MattJ nano is a cool word, I use it all the time
  670. Zash Something something hypercube routing
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  673. pep. Noob question, is there a way to never send the plain passwd to the server and only do scram, from account creation to the end. (Thinking about ibr)
  674. Ge0rG Hyper cube, wasn't that the movie full of deadly traps?
  675. Ge0rG pep.: you need to send the password during ibr
  676. MattJ pep., no
  677. Zash Wasn't there some draft/protoxep on uploading SCRAM stuff?
  678. MattJ oh?
  679. Zash Bunneh: xep scram
  680. Bunneh Zash: Sorry, I couldn't find a match
  681. pep. Zash: would be nice
  682. pep. Also, scram for the web when
  683. Zash Hah, good luck
  684. Zash Re the talk of device / client registration that was mentioned on the summit
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  686. Zash In't that something like the model of OAuth, where instead of the user signing into their account, they authorize the clients to access their account.
  687. Zash In that model, password login don't as much sense
  688. Ge0rG I want an Auth mechanism called SCUMM.
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