XSF Discussion - 2018-02-17

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  120. jonasw

    uh, so I gotta vote for myself

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  131. jonasw

    marc, do you intend to bring https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/585 to the standards@ list? Please comment with your intention so that I can move forward with the PR, thanks.

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  135. marc

    jonasw, not really, I'm not on @standards

  136. jonasw

    marc, uh, can you join please?

  137. jonasw

    it is kind of expected of XEP authors

  138. jonasw

    that’s where comments on your XEP will usually be raised

  139. marc

    puh... GitHub account *and* joining a mailing list

  140. marc


  141. jonasw

    github is optional ;)

  142. marc


  143. jonasw

    (it just makes my life easier, but you can always mail PRs to editor@)

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  145. marc

    jonasw, will do but tomorrow or on monday

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  156. edhelas

    dwd here ?

  157. edhelas

    would it be possible to update https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0376.html to make the subscription fit with the namespace here https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0330.html

  158. edhelas


  159. jonasw

    330 doesn’t use :0?

  160. edhelas

    0330 define :0

  161. edhelas

    I can also bump 0330 if you need it

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  164. jonasw

    agh, right

  165. jonasw

    I also confused namespace and node

  166. jonasw

    I’m not awake yet

  167. edhelas


  168. jonasw

    I’m not sure what the benefit would be though

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  170. jonasw

    > 21:31:53 mathieui> I still haven’t come up with a way of saying my nick in english non-awkwardly how about "matthew"?

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  172. mathieui

    that’s more like an english translation of my name, and there’s MattJ

  173. jonasw

    yeah; french matthew? ;-)

  174. jonasw

    names are tricky

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  179. Flow

    It's such a pity that we don't have the htmldiffs on xep bumps any more :(

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  320. rion

    Is "4.6 Image Restrictions" of vcard-based avatars xep still valid in the world of retina displays?

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  395. jonasw

    flow, yes, but we also don’t have a way to work around that, given that htmldiff is really really inefficient

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  397. flow

    how about starting htmldiff with a 5 min timeout?

  398. jonasw

    it won’t terminate on many XEPs

  399. jonasw

    and also iteam won’t agree to running this on the server.

  400. jonasw

    so we’d have to do some trickery, and since incremental builds with dockerhub do not work, I don’t see a viable way

  401. flow

    true, that's why I suggest using the timoout binary

  402. flow


  403. flow

    ahh, do we incrementally create the diffs, or all diffs every time?

  404. jonasw

    we don’t at all currently

  405. jonasw

    but I’m afraid that we would have to do the latter

  406. flow

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  408. Guus

    What's an advisable namespace template for proprietary xmpp functionality?

  409. jonasw

    Guus, https://company.example/

  410. flow

    Guus, a URI you contral

  411. jonasw

    then whatever you like

  412. jonasw

    I personally do https://xmlns.zombofant.net/…

  413. Guus

    Is urn:xmpp: reserved?

  414. jonasw

    it belongs to the XSF afaik

  415. flow

    Guus, it's registered with the IANA

  416. Guus

    kk, uri it is

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  418. jonasw

    you could of course also do urn:uuid:

  419. flow

    Guus, and I think you want URLs and not URNs

  420. Guus


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  423. Guus

    Its not referencing a location, but it is an identifier. So a URI or URN, I'd say?

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  425. jonasw

    I always get super-confused by those nuanced differences

  426. flow

    Guus, IIRC xml namespaces only allow URL

  427. jonasw

    [Definition: An XML namespace is identified by a URI reference [RFC3986]; element and attribute names may be placed in an XML namespace using the mechanisms described in this specification. ]

  428. Guus

    flow: surely not. We use urn:xmpp in xmpp

  429. flow

    Guus, that's not an indication that it's done right

  430. flow

    but I could be wrong

  431. flow

    as said, IIRC

  432. jonasw

    flow, https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#concepts

  433. jonasw

    "identified by a URI reference"

  434. jonasw

    so URN is a subset of URI and thus valid

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  445. jonasw

    Guus, bonus points if the URLs point to a schema or document describing what you’re doing :)

  446. Seve

    Does anyone know something about https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/blob/inbox-proto-xep/doc/open-extensions/xeps/xep-inbox.html ? A XEP to know which was the last message you read and such. Or is it going to be just in Bind 2.0? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0386.html#example-3

  447. Seve

    We discussed this at the Summit, but if someone could refresh my memory, please

  448. jonasw

    I guess this will in some way be in bind 2

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  512. Seve

    Hmm... My question is regarding this table: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table I would like to put something on "Remembers last-read position" In Poezio you can leave the view on a certain position and continue reading later on, but if some XEP could assist this and say "Well, not now, but clients could implement it with XEP-0XXX"

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  517. jonasw

    Seve, that are chat markers

  518. jonasw

    I’d be surprised if poezio didn’t even emit them

  519. mathieui

    it doesn’t

  520. jonasw


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  522. mathieui

    (but I would consider poezio as not having the previously mentioned feature until we have real chat markers)

  523. jonasw

    Seve, the IRC bridges go the wrong way though

  524. jonasw

    with biboumi, IRC is still the "primary" medium of communication

  525. Seve

    It's because we had this discussion at Summit, so clients could know what you have read and such, and this would be multi device. That's why I liked to Michał Piotrowski's XEP (Inbox)

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  529. jonasw

    Seve, for persistent public logging, research the prosody module which is used for xmpp.org and link to the logs of this channel

  530. jonasw

    (or something like that)

  531. jonasw


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  533. jonasw

    I think that’s this: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_log_http.html

  534. jonasw

    but I’m not sure, ask in xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join

  535. jonasw

    Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368

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  537. jonasw

    Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368, or even https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368

  538. jonasw

    Seve, " Depends on the client. Psi and Gajim are able to do this.", this sounds as if ONLY Psi and Gajim can do it. add an "for example," :)

  539. Seve

    jonasw, Thanks!! Yes you are right, I'm just starting with it, any feedback is welcome please. I'm going to update it as soon as I get home!

  540. jonasw

    Seve, you’re welcome. that should be all of my feedback for now though :)

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  559. Ge0rG

    The nice thing about biboumi is that it allows multi client usage

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  561. Ge0rG

    Kind of like a bouncer.

  562. Ge0rG

    But yeah, the ideal solution would be an irc server interface exposed by a MUC.

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  629. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, that's what this is https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd

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  659. Seve

    jonasw, sorry, I didn't understand you. Now, reading moparisthebest's comment, do you mean when they say 'IRC Bridge' they mean connect to XMPP from IRC?

  660. moparisthebest

    Well there are 2 different ways

  661. moparisthebest

    Biboumi let's you connect to an IRC server with an XMPP client

  662. moparisthebest

    The opposite is connecting to xmpp muc with an IRC client, that's my thing

  663. moparisthebest

    IRC bridge is ambiguous

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  665. Seve

    By the way, thanks for that, I will add it to the table if you don't mind! Pretty handy for this situation.

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  667. moparisthebest

    Oh yea in terms of recommending xmpp mucs to KDE IRC bridge means xmpp-ircd

  668. moparisthebest

    Sorry I hadn't read backlog

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  671. Seve

    moparisthebest, my bad, I should have specified too

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  673. moparisthebest

    An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works

  674. moparisthebest

    As far as I know no other IRC server supports that

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  688. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: is there authentication in place

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  692. Seve

    moparisthebest, jonasw, then, from looking at the table, I should put xmpp-ircd in 'IRC Bridge' and biboume and spectrum in 'Popular bridges'?

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  697. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: no that's the part that is missing, like, nickserv at least, maybe chanserv

  698. moparisthebest

    Seve: still not exactly sure what they are after

  699. moparisthebest

    My thing is useful if they are hosting a muc, IRC users can join directly

  700. moparisthebest

    Biboumi is useful if they are giving out xmpp accounts

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  705. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: will it properly reflect message ids? 😀

  706. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: isn't that the mucs job?

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  708. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: depends on whom you ask

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  710. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat#Matching_Your_Reflected_Message

  711. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: so being a component it knows there are no other clients, so it can just match the sending nick and ignore all

  712. moparisthebest

    Which I'm guessing it's what it does, been awhile, and I didn't write it all in the first place

  713. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: sorry, I was still talking of your reverse gateway.

  714. moparisthebest

    Yes I am too

  715. Ge0rG

    I know that biboumi fails hard on reflection

  716. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: then I don't understand what you mean. Maybe it's just too late, I will try on Monday

  717. moparisthebest

    Biboumi is a muc though, my thing just uses mucs

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  719. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: If you are guaranteed no other clients are connected to the same account on a muc you don't have to worry about matching

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  724. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest [20:58]: > An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works That just doesn't fit with what you just said

  725. moparisthebest

    Ah yes so it must only display on recieve and never send

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  772. Seve

    Would you link to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html as the specification for 'Reply to (quote) messages with reference to the original message'?

  773. Seve

    Since it has a lot of TODOs, I'm not sure if I should.

  774. Seve

    Maybe that would scare more than make it interesting

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  777. Kev

    Link to in what context? References is the way to do that, yes.

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  779. Kev

    We'll be implementing some references stuff in Swift imminently.

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  782. Seve

    Kev, that's great to hear! I'm just doing this: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table (The original is here https://community.kde.org/IM_Survey_Results but I can't edit that, so I'm making it on my own on GitHub) The sentence is from those requirements but from another place, where they are a bit more explained. In the table it just says 'Quotes' but I guess I should say references.

  783. Dave Cridland has left

  784. Kev

    And you've got 393 for just quote formatting.

  785. SamWhited

    The "TODO: define character appropriately" still seems like an important part missing from references; I probably wouldn't consider it fit for use until that's fixed.

  786. Seve

    Kev, yes, I wrote that, but I also wanted to specify that there's a XEP for referencing other messages, since I think is something expected. The XEP is still in need of some work, so I'm not sure if I should put it there, because the audience of that table I'm doing may or may not understand how the process work and will think I'm joking or something like that. I guess you get what I mean.

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  790. Seve

    SamWhited, thank you

  791. Seve

    SamWhited, by the way, I haven't replied yet, but thank you very much for your answer on the mailing list, very very good and helpful!

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  794. SamWhited

    Sure thing, I hope it ends up being useful. Their requirements list was a tad vague though, so maybe once they've tightened it up a bit we can help them.

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  800. Seve

    SamWhited, indeed. It seems that the table I'm filling, is based on https://sessellift.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/results-of-the-requirements-survey-for-a-kde-wide-chat-solution/ So I'm trying to match the requirements on the table with the ones on that blogpost.

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