XSF Discussion - 2018-02-17

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08:44:13 jonasw uh, so I gotta vote for myself
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09:06:18 jonasw marc, do you intend to bring https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/585 to the standards@ list? Please comment with your intention so that I can move forward with the PR, thanks.
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09:10:02 marc jonasw, not really, I'm not on @standards
09:10:38 jonasw marc, uh, can you join please?
09:10:46 jonasw it is kind of expected of XEP authors
09:10:54 jonasw that’s where comments on your XEP will usually be raised
09:11:23 marc puh... GitHub account *and* joining a mailing list
09:11:24 marc :D
09:11:57 jonasw github is optional ;)
09:12:10 marc haha
09:12:10 jonasw (it just makes my life easier, but you can always mail PRs to editor@)
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09:16:23 marc jonasw, will do but tomorrow or on monday
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09:37:55 edhelas dwd here ?
09:38:16 edhelas would it be possible to update https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0376.html to make the subscription fit with the namespace here https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0330.html
09:38:28 edhelas urn:xmpp:pubsub:subscription:0
09:38:42 jonasw 330 doesn’t use :0?
09:39:05 edhelas 0330 define :0
09:39:31 edhelas I can also bump 0330 if you need it
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09:41:27 jonasw agh, right
09:41:57 jonasw I also confused namespace and node
09:42:00 jonasw I’m not awake yet
09:43:33 edhelas ok
09:43:42 jonasw I’m not sure what the benefit would be though
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09:45:14 jonasw > 21:31:53 mathieui> I still haven’t come up with a way of saying my nick in english non-awkwardly how about "matthew"?
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09:49:29 mathieui that’s more like an english translation of my name, and there’s MattJ
09:49:56 jonasw yeah; french matthew? ;-)
09:50:07 jonasw names are tricky
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09:57:33 Flow It's such a pity that we don't have the htmldiffs on xep bumps any more :(
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13:24:29 rion Is "4.6 Image Restrictions" of vcard-based avatars xep still valid in the world of retina displays?
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15:18:27 jonasw flow, yes, but we also don’t have a way to work around that, given that htmldiff is really really inefficient
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15:19:58 flow how about starting htmldiff with a 5 min timeout?
15:20:16 jonasw it won’t terminate on many XEPs
15:20:27 jonasw and also iteam won’t agree to running this on the server.
15:20:40 jonasw so we’d have to do some trickery, and since incremental builds with dockerhub do not work, I don’t see a viable way
15:20:42 flow true, that's why I suggest using the timoout binary
15:20:53 flow *timeout
15:21:41 flow ahh, do we incrementally create the diffs, or all diffs every time?
15:21:48 jonasw we don’t at all currently
15:21:52 jonasw but I’m afraid that we would have to do the latter
15:22:05 flow …
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15:22:54 Guus What's an advisable namespace template for proprietary xmpp functionality?
15:23:08 jonasw Guus, https://company.example/
15:23:10 flow Guus, a URI you contral
15:23:13 jonasw then whatever you like
15:23:21 jonasw I personally do https://xmlns.zombofant.net/…
15:23:21 Guus Is urn:xmpp: reserved?
15:23:27 jonasw it belongs to the XSF afaik
15:23:33 flow Guus, it's registered with the IANA
15:23:51 Guus kk, uri it is
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15:24:22 jonasw you could of course also do urn:uuid:
15:24:40 flow Guus, and I think you want URLs and not URNs
15:24:56 Guus Pourquoi?
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15:25:51 Guus Its not referencing a location, but it is an identifier. So a URI or URN, I'd say?
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15:26:20 jonasw I always get super-confused by those nuanced differences
15:26:21 flow Guus, IIRC xml namespaces only allow URL
15:26:48 jonasw [Definition: An XML namespace is identified by a URI reference [RFC3986]; element and attribute names may be placed in an XML namespace using the mechanisms described in this specification. ]
15:26:54 Guus flow: surely not. We use urn:xmpp in xmpp
15:27:14 flow Guus, that's not an indication that it's done right
15:27:18 flow but I could be wrong
15:27:22 flow as said, IIRC
15:27:23 jonasw flow, https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#concepts
15:27:32 jonasw "identified by a URI reference"
15:27:59 jonasw so URN is a subset of URI and thus valid
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15:35:11 jonasw Guus, bonus points if the URLs point to a schema or document describing what you’re doing :)
15:36:10 Seve Does anyone know something about https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/blob/inbox-proto-xep/doc/open-extensions/xeps/xep-inbox.html ? A XEP to know which was the last message you read and such. Or is it going to be just in Bind 2.0? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0386.html#example-3
15:36:23 Seve We discussed this at the Summit, but if someone could refresh my memory, please
15:36:45 jonasw I guess this will in some way be in bind 2
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17:05:53 Seve Hmm... My question is regarding this table: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table I would like to put something on "Remembers last-read position" In Poezio you can leave the view on a certain position and continue reading later on, but if some XEP could assist this and say "Well, not now, but clients could implement it with XEP-0XXX"
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17:08:22 stoneturtle :)
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17:08:45 jonasw Seve, that are chat markers
17:08:51 jonasw I’d be surprised if poezio didn’t even emit them
17:09:09 mathieui it doesn’t
17:09:13 jonasw :(
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17:09:46 mathieui (but I would consider poezio as not having the previously mentioned feature until we have real chat markers)
17:10:21 jonasw Seve, the IRC bridges go the wrong way though
17:10:45 jonasw with biboumi, IRC is still the "primary" medium of communication
17:11:15 Seve It's because we had this discussion at Summit, so clients could know what you have read and such, and this would be multi device. That's why I liked to Michał Piotrowski's XEP (Inbox)
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17:11:58 jonasw Seve, for persistent public logging, research the prosody module which is used for xmpp.org and link to the logs of this channel
17:12:03 jonasw (or something like that)
17:12:14 jonasw http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-17/#17:11:58
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17:12:43 jonasw I think that’s this: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_log_http.html
17:12:54 jonasw but I’m not sure, ask in xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join
17:13:12 jonasw ~~Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368~~ ✎
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17:14:03 jonasw Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368, or even https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 ✏
17:14:54 jonasw Seve, " Depends on the client. Psi and Gajim are able to do this.", this sounds as if ONLY Psi and Gajim can do it. add an "for example," :)
17:16:00 Seve jonasw, Thanks!! Yes you are right, I'm just starting with it, any feedback is welcome please. I'm going to update it as soon as I get home!
17:16:13 jonasw Seve, you’re welcome. that should be all of my feedback for now though :)
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17:36:21 Ge0rG The nice thing about biboumi is that it allows multi client usage
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17:36:35 Ge0rG Kind of like a bouncer.
17:37:04 Ge0rG But yeah, the ideal solution would be an irc server interface exposed by a MUC.
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19:10:34 moparisthebest Ge0rG, that's what this is https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd
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19:41:59 Seve jonasw, sorry, I didn't understand you. Now, reading moparisthebest's comment, do you mean when they say 'IRC Bridge' they mean connect to XMPP from IRC?
19:42:42 moparisthebest Well there are 2 different ways
19:43:15 moparisthebest Biboumi let's you connect to an IRC server with an XMPP client
19:43:46 moparisthebest The opposite is connecting to xmpp muc with an IRC client, that's my thing
19:44:36 moparisthebest IRC bridge is ambiguous
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19:47:08 Seve By the way, thanks for that, I will add it to the table if you don't mind! Pretty handy for this situation.
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19:54:55 moparisthebest Oh yea in terms of recommending xmpp mucs to KDE IRC bridge means xmpp-ircd
19:55:04 moparisthebest Sorry I hadn't read backlog
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19:56:15 Seve moparisthebest, my bad, I should have specified too
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19:58:21 moparisthebest An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works
19:58:39 moparisthebest As far as I know no other IRC server supports that
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20:27:37 Ge0rG moparisthebest: is there authentication in place
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20:34:15 Seve moparisthebest, jonasw, then, from looking at the table, I should put xmpp-ircd in 'IRC Bridge' and biboume and spectrum in 'Popular bridges'?
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20:45:52 moparisthebest Ge0rG: no that's the part that is missing, like, nickserv at least, maybe chanserv
20:46:13 moparisthebest Seve: still not exactly sure what they are after
20:46:45 moparisthebest My thing is useful if they are hosting a muc, IRC users can join directly
20:47:03 moparisthebest Biboumi is useful if they are giving out xmpp accounts
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20:58:25 Ge0rG moparisthebest: will it properly reflect message ids? 😀
20:58:59 moparisthebest Ge0rG: isn't that the mucs job?
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20:59:54 Ge0rG moparisthebest: depends on whom you ask
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21:02:08 Ge0rG moparisthebest: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat#Matching_Your_Reflected_Message
21:03:38 moparisthebest Ge0rG: so being a component it knows there are no other clients, so it can just match the sending nick and ignore all
21:04:07 moparisthebest Which I'm guessing it's what it does, been awhile, and I didn't write it all in the first place
21:04:50 Ge0rG moparisthebest: sorry, I was still talking of your reverse gateway.
21:05:02 moparisthebest Yes I am too
21:05:06 Ge0rG I know that biboumi fails hard on reflection
21:05:31 Ge0rG moparisthebest: then I don't understand what you mean. Maybe it's just too late, I will try on Monday
21:05:32 moparisthebest Biboumi is a muc though, my thing just uses mucs
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21:06:51 moparisthebest Ge0rG: If you are guaranteed no other clients are connected to the same account on a muc you don't have to worry about matching
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21:11:08 Ge0rG moparisthebest [20:58]: > An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works That just doesn't fit with what you just said
21:12:52 moparisthebest Ah yes so it must only display on recieve and never send
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22:58:22 Seve Would you link to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html as the specification for 'Reply to (quote) messages with reference to the original message'?
22:58:38 Seve Since it has a lot of TODOs, I'm not sure if I should.
22:59:00 Seve Maybe that would scare more than make it interesting
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23:02:52 Kev Link to in what context? References is the way to do that, yes.
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23:03:11 Kev We'll be implementing some references stuff in Swift imminently.
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23:07:14 Seve Kev, that's great to hear! I'm just doing this: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table (The original is here https://community.kde.org/IM_Survey_Results but I can't edit that, so I'm making it on my own on GitHub) The sentence is from those requirements but from another place, where they are a bit more explained. In the table it just says 'Quotes' but I guess I should say references.
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23:07:47 Kev And you've got 393 for just quote formatting.
23:08:34 SamWhited The "TODO: define character appropriately" still seems like an important part missing from references; I probably wouldn't consider it fit for use until that's fixed.
23:09:34 Seve Kev, yes, I wrote that, but I also wanted to specify that there's a XEP for referencing other messages, since I think is something expected. The XEP is still in need of some work, so I'm not sure if I should put it there, because the audience of that table I'm doing may or may not understand how the process work and will think I'm joking or something like that. I guess you get what I mean.
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23:11:31 Seve SamWhited, thank you
23:12:35 Seve SamWhited, by the way, I haven't replied yet, but thank you very much for your answer on the mailing list, very very good and helpful!
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23:15:21 SamWhited Sure thing, I hope it ends up being useful. Their requirements list was a tad vague though, so maybe once they've tightened it up a bit we can help them.
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23:18:07 Seve SamWhited, indeed. It seems that the table I'm filling, is based on https://sessellift.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/results-of-the-requirements-survey-for-a-kde-wide-chat-solution/ So I'm trying to match the requirements on the table with the ones on that blogpost.
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