XSF Discussion - 2018-02-17


  1. jonasw

    uh, so I gotta vote for myself

  2. jonasw

    marc, do you intend to bring https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/585 to the standards@ list? Please comment with your intention so that I can move forward with the PR, thanks.

  3. marc

    jonasw, not really, I'm not on @standards

  4. jonasw

    marc, uh, can you join please?

  5. jonasw

    it is kind of expected of XEP authors

  6. jonasw

    that’s where comments on your XEP will usually be raised

  7. marc

    puh... GitHub account *and* joining a mailing list

  8. marc

    :D

  9. jonasw

    github is optional ;)

  10. marc

    haha

  11. jonasw

    (it just makes my life easier, but you can always mail PRs to editor@)

  12. marc

    jonasw, will do but tomorrow or on monday

  13. edhelas

    dwd here ?

  14. edhelas

    would it be possible to update https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0376.html to make the subscription fit with the namespace here https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0330.html

  15. edhelas

    urn:xmpp:pubsub:subscription:0

  16. jonasw

    330 doesn’t use :0?

  17. edhelas

    0330 define :0

  18. edhelas

    I can also bump 0330 if you need it

  19. jonasw

    agh, right

  20. jonasw

    I also confused namespace and node

  21. jonasw

    I’m not awake yet

  22. edhelas

    ok

  23. jonasw

    I’m not sure what the benefit would be though

  24. jonasw

    > 21:31:53 mathieui> I still haven’t come up with a way of saying my nick in english non-awkwardly how about "matthew"?

  25. mathieui

    that’s more like an english translation of my name, and there’s MattJ

  26. jonasw

    yeah; french matthew? ;-)

  27. jonasw

    names are tricky

  28. Flow

    It's such a pity that we don't have the htmldiffs on xep bumps any more :(

  29. rion

    Is "4.6 Image Restrictions" of vcard-based avatars xep still valid in the world of retina displays?

  30. jonasw

    flow, yes, but we also don’t have a way to work around that, given that htmldiff is really really inefficient

  31. flow

    how about starting htmldiff with a 5 min timeout?

  32. jonasw

    it won’t terminate on many XEPs

  33. jonasw

    and also iteam won’t agree to running this on the server.

  34. jonasw

    so we’d have to do some trickery, and since incremental builds with dockerhub do not work, I don’t see a viable way

  35. flow

    true, that's why I suggest using the timoout binary

  36. flow

    *timeout

  37. flow

    ahh, do we incrementally create the diffs, or all diffs every time?

  38. jonasw

    we don’t at all currently

  39. jonasw

    but I’m afraid that we would have to do the latter

  40. flow

  41. Guus

    What's an advisable namespace template for proprietary xmpp functionality?

  42. jonasw

    Guus, https://company.example/

  43. flow

    Guus, a URI you contral

  44. jonasw

    then whatever you like

  45. jonasw

    I personally do https://xmlns.zombofant.net/…

  46. Guus

    Is urn:xmpp: reserved?

  47. jonasw

    it belongs to the XSF afaik

  48. flow

    Guus, it's registered with the IANA

  49. Guus

    kk, uri it is

  50. jonasw

    you could of course also do urn:uuid:

  51. flow

    Guus, and I think you want URLs and not URNs

  52. Guus

    Pourquoi?

  53. Guus

    Its not referencing a location, but it is an identifier. So a URI or URN, I'd say?

  54. jonasw

    I always get super-confused by those nuanced differences

  55. flow

    Guus, IIRC xml namespaces only allow URL

  56. jonasw

    [Definition: An XML namespace is identified by a URI reference [RFC3986]; element and attribute names may be placed in an XML namespace using the mechanisms described in this specification. ]

  57. Guus

    flow: surely not. We use urn:xmpp in xmpp

  58. flow

    Guus, that's not an indication that it's done right

  59. flow

    but I could be wrong

  60. flow

    as said, IIRC

  61. jonasw

    flow, https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#concepts

  62. jonasw

    "identified by a URI reference"

  63. jonasw

    so URN is a subset of URI and thus valid

  64. Guus

    Kk

  65. Guus

    Tx

  66. jonasw

    Guus, bonus points if the URLs point to a schema or document describing what you’re doing :)

  67. Seve

    Does anyone know something about https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/blob/inbox-proto-xep/doc/open-extensions/xeps/xep-inbox.html ? A XEP to know which was the last message you read and such. Or is it going to be just in Bind 2.0? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0386.html#example-3

  68. Seve

    We discussed this at the Summit, but if someone could refresh my memory, please

  69. jonasw

    I guess this will in some way be in bind 2

  70. Seve

    Hmm... My question is regarding this table: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table I would like to put something on "Remembers last-read position" In Poezio you can leave the view on a certain position and continue reading later on, but if some XEP could assist this and say "Well, not now, but clients could implement it with XEP-0XXX"

  71. stoneturtle

    :)

  72. jonasw

    Seve, that are chat markers

  73. jonasw

    I’d be surprised if poezio didn’t even emit them

  74. mathieui

    it doesn’t

  75. jonasw

    :(

  76. mathieui

    (but I would consider poezio as not having the previously mentioned feature until we have real chat markers)

  77. jonasw

    Seve, the IRC bridges go the wrong way though

  78. jonasw

    with biboumi, IRC is still the "primary" medium of communication

  79. Seve

    It's because we had this discussion at Summit, so clients could know what you have read and such, and this would be multi device. That's why I liked to Michał Piotrowski's XEP (Inbox)

  80. jonasw

    Seve, for persistent public logging, research the prosody module which is used for xmpp.org and link to the logs of this channel

  81. jonasw

    (or something like that)

  82. jonasw

    http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-17/#17:11:58

  83. jonasw

    I think that’s this: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_log_http.html

  84. jonasw

    but I’m not sure, ask in xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join

  85. jonasw

    Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368

  86. jonasw

    Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368, or even https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368

  87. jonasw

    Seve, " Depends on the client. Psi and Gajim are able to do this.", this sounds as if ONLY Psi and Gajim can do it. add an "for example," :)

  88. Seve

    jonasw, Thanks!! Yes you are right, I'm just starting with it, any feedback is welcome please. I'm going to update it as soon as I get home!

  89. jonasw

    Seve, you’re welcome. that should be all of my feedback for now though :)

  90. Ge0rG

    The nice thing about biboumi is that it allows multi client usage

  91. Ge0rG

    Kind of like a bouncer.

  92. Ge0rG

    But yeah, the ideal solution would be an irc server interface exposed by a MUC.

  93. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, that's what this is https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd

  94. Seve

    jonasw, sorry, I didn't understand you. Now, reading moparisthebest's comment, do you mean when they say 'IRC Bridge' they mean connect to XMPP from IRC?

  95. moparisthebest

    Well there are 2 different ways

  96. moparisthebest

    Biboumi let's you connect to an IRC server with an XMPP client

  97. moparisthebest

    The opposite is connecting to xmpp muc with an IRC client, that's my thing

  98. moparisthebest

    IRC bridge is ambiguous

  99. Seve

    By the way, thanks for that, I will add it to the table if you don't mind! Pretty handy for this situation.

  100. moparisthebest

    Oh yea in terms of recommending xmpp mucs to KDE IRC bridge means xmpp-ircd

  101. moparisthebest

    Sorry I hadn't read backlog

  102. Seve

    moparisthebest, my bad, I should have specified too

  103. moparisthebest

    An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works

  104. moparisthebest

    As far as I know no other IRC server supports that

  105. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: is there authentication in place

  106. Seve

    moparisthebest, jonasw, then, from looking at the table, I should put xmpp-ircd in 'IRC Bridge' and biboume and spectrum in 'Popular bridges'?

  107. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: no that's the part that is missing, like, nickserv at least, maybe chanserv

  108. moparisthebest

    Seve: still not exactly sure what they are after

  109. moparisthebest

    My thing is useful if they are hosting a muc, IRC users can join directly

  110. moparisthebest

    Biboumi is useful if they are giving out xmpp accounts

  111. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: will it properly reflect message ids? 😀

  112. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: isn't that the mucs job?

  113. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: depends on whom you ask

  114. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat#Matching_Your_Reflected_Message

  115. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: so being a component it knows there are no other clients, so it can just match the sending nick and ignore all

  116. moparisthebest

    Which I'm guessing it's what it does, been awhile, and I didn't write it all in the first place

  117. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: sorry, I was still talking of your reverse gateway.

  118. moparisthebest

    Yes I am too

  119. Ge0rG

    I know that biboumi fails hard on reflection

  120. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: then I don't understand what you mean. Maybe it's just too late, I will try on Monday

  121. moparisthebest

    Biboumi is a muc though, my thing just uses mucs

  122. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG: If you are guaranteed no other clients are connected to the same account on a muc you don't have to worry about matching

  123. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest [20:58]: > An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works That just doesn't fit with what you just said

  124. moparisthebest

    Ah yes so it must only display on recieve and never send

  125. Seve

    Would you link to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html as the specification for 'Reply to (quote) messages with reference to the original message'?

  126. Seve

    Since it has a lot of TODOs, I'm not sure if I should.

  127. Seve

    Maybe that would scare more than make it interesting

  128. Kev

    Link to in what context? References is the way to do that, yes.

  129. Kev

    We'll be implementing some references stuff in Swift imminently.

  130. Seve

    Kev, that's great to hear! I'm just doing this: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table (The original is here https://community.kde.org/IM_Survey_Results but I can't edit that, so I'm making it on my own on GitHub) The sentence is from those requirements but from another place, where they are a bit more explained. In the table it just says 'Quotes' but I guess I should say references.

  131. Kev

    And you've got 393 for just quote formatting.

  132. SamWhited

    The "TODO: define character appropriately" still seems like an important part missing from references; I probably wouldn't consider it fit for use until that's fixed.

  133. Seve

    Kev, yes, I wrote that, but I also wanted to specify that there's a XEP for referencing other messages, since I think is something expected. The XEP is still in need of some work, so I'm not sure if I should put it there, because the audience of that table I'm doing may or may not understand how the process work and will think I'm joking or something like that. I guess you get what I mean.

  134. Seve

    SamWhited, thank you

  135. Seve

    SamWhited, by the way, I haven't replied yet, but thank you very much for your answer on the mailing list, very very good and helpful!

  136. SamWhited

    Sure thing, I hope it ends up being useful. Their requirements list was a tad vague though, so maybe once they've tightened it up a bit we can help them.

  137. Seve

    SamWhited, indeed. It seems that the table I'm filling, is based on https://sessellift.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/results-of-the-requirements-survey-for-a-kde-wide-chat-solution/ So I'm trying to match the requirements on the table with the ones on that blogpost.