XSF Discussion - 2018-02-17

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  120. jonasw uh, so I gotta vote for myself
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  131. jonasw marc, do you intend to bring https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/585 to the standards@ list? Please comment with your intention so that I can move forward with the PR, thanks.
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  135. marc jonasw, not really, I'm not on @standards
  136. jonasw marc, uh, can you join please?
  137. jonasw it is kind of expected of XEP authors
  138. jonasw that’s where comments on your XEP will usually be raised
  139. marc puh... GitHub account *and* joining a mailing list
  140. marc :D
  141. jonasw github is optional ;)
  142. marc haha
  143. jonasw (it just makes my life easier, but you can always mail PRs to editor@)
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  145. marc jonasw, will do but tomorrow or on monday
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  156. edhelas dwd here ?
  157. edhelas would it be possible to update https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0376.html to make the subscription fit with the namespace here https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0330.html
  158. edhelas urn:xmpp:pubsub:subscription:0
  159. jonasw 330 doesn’t use :0?
  160. edhelas 0330 define :0
  161. edhelas I can also bump 0330 if you need it
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  164. jonasw agh, right
  165. jonasw I also confused namespace and node
  166. jonasw I’m not awake yet
  167. edhelas ok
  168. jonasw I’m not sure what the benefit would be though
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  170. jonasw > 21:31:53 mathieui> I still haven’t come up with a way of saying my nick in english non-awkwardly how about "matthew"?
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  172. mathieui that’s more like an english translation of my name, and there’s MattJ
  173. jonasw yeah; french matthew? ;-)
  174. jonasw names are tricky
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  179. Flow It's such a pity that we don't have the htmldiffs on xep bumps any more :(
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  320. rion Is "4.6 Image Restrictions" of vcard-based avatars xep still valid in the world of retina displays?
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  395. jonasw flow, yes, but we also don’t have a way to work around that, given that htmldiff is really really inefficient
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  397. flow how about starting htmldiff with a 5 min timeout?
  398. jonasw it won’t terminate on many XEPs
  399. jonasw and also iteam won’t agree to running this on the server.
  400. jonasw so we’d have to do some trickery, and since incremental builds with dockerhub do not work, I don’t see a viable way
  401. flow true, that's why I suggest using the timoout binary
  402. flow *timeout
  403. flow ahh, do we incrementally create the diffs, or all diffs every time?
  404. jonasw we don’t at all currently
  405. jonasw but I’m afraid that we would have to do the latter
  406. flow
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  408. Guus What's an advisable namespace template for proprietary xmpp functionality?
  409. jonasw Guus, https://company.example/
  410. flow Guus, a URI you contral
  411. jonasw then whatever you like
  412. jonasw I personally do https://xmlns.zombofant.net/…
  413. Guus Is urn:xmpp: reserved?
  414. jonasw it belongs to the XSF afaik
  415. flow Guus, it's registered with the IANA
  416. Guus kk, uri it is
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  418. jonasw you could of course also do urn:uuid:
  419. flow Guus, and I think you want URLs and not URNs
  420. Guus Pourquoi?
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  423. Guus Its not referencing a location, but it is an identifier. So a URI or URN, I'd say?
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  425. jonasw I always get super-confused by those nuanced differences
  426. flow Guus, IIRC xml namespaces only allow URL
  427. jonasw [Definition: An XML namespace is identified by a URI reference [RFC3986]; element and attribute names may be placed in an XML namespace using the mechanisms described in this specification. ]
  428. Guus flow: surely not. We use urn:xmpp in xmpp
  429. flow Guus, that's not an indication that it's done right
  430. flow but I could be wrong
  431. flow as said, IIRC
  432. jonasw flow, https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#concepts
  433. jonasw "identified by a URI reference"
  434. jonasw so URN is a subset of URI and thus valid
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  445. jonasw Guus, bonus points if the URLs point to a schema or document describing what you’re doing :)
  446. Seve Does anyone know something about https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/blob/inbox-proto-xep/doc/open-extensions/xeps/xep-inbox.html ? A XEP to know which was the last message you read and such. Or is it going to be just in Bind 2.0? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0386.html#example-3
  447. Seve We discussed this at the Summit, but if someone could refresh my memory, please
  448. jonasw I guess this will in some way be in bind 2
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  512. Seve Hmm... My question is regarding this table: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table I would like to put something on "Remembers last-read position" In Poezio you can leave the view on a certain position and continue reading later on, but if some XEP could assist this and say "Well, not now, but clients could implement it with XEP-0XXX"
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  515. stoneturtle :)
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  517. jonasw Seve, that are chat markers
  518. jonasw I’d be surprised if poezio didn’t even emit them
  519. mathieui it doesn’t
  520. jonasw :(
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  522. mathieui (but I would consider poezio as not having the previously mentioned feature until we have real chat markers)
  523. jonasw Seve, the IRC bridges go the wrong way though
  524. jonasw with biboumi, IRC is still the "primary" medium of communication
  525. Seve It's because we had this discussion at Summit, so clients could know what you have read and such, and this would be multi device. That's why I liked to Michał Piotrowski's XEP (Inbox)
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  529. jonasw Seve, for persistent public logging, research the prosody module which is used for xmpp.org and link to the logs of this channel
  530. jonasw (or something like that)
  531. jonasw http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-17/#17:11:58
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  533. jonasw I think that’s this: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_log_http.html
  534. jonasw but I’m not sure, ask in xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join
  535. jonasw Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368
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  537. jonasw Firewall friendly: link to XEP-0368, or even https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368
  538. jonasw Seve, " Depends on the client. Psi and Gajim are able to do this.", this sounds as if ONLY Psi and Gajim can do it. add an "for example," :)
  539. Seve jonasw, Thanks!! Yes you are right, I'm just starting with it, any feedback is welcome please. I'm going to update it as soon as I get home!
  540. jonasw Seve, you’re welcome. that should be all of my feedback for now though :)
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  559. Ge0rG The nice thing about biboumi is that it allows multi client usage
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  561. Ge0rG Kind of like a bouncer.
  562. Ge0rG But yeah, the ideal solution would be an irc server interface exposed by a MUC.
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  629. moparisthebest Ge0rG, that's what this is https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd
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  659. Seve jonasw, sorry, I didn't understand you. Now, reading moparisthebest's comment, do you mean when they say 'IRC Bridge' they mean connect to XMPP from IRC?
  660. moparisthebest Well there are 2 different ways
  661. moparisthebest Biboumi let's you connect to an IRC server with an XMPP client
  662. moparisthebest The opposite is connecting to xmpp muc with an IRC client, that's my thing
  663. moparisthebest IRC bridge is ambiguous
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  665. Seve By the way, thanks for that, I will add it to the table if you don't mind! Pretty handy for this situation.
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  667. moparisthebest Oh yea in terms of recommending xmpp mucs to KDE IRC bridge means xmpp-ircd
  668. moparisthebest Sorry I hadn't read backlog
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  671. Seve moparisthebest, my bad, I should have specified too
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  673. moparisthebest An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works
  674. moparisthebest As far as I know no other IRC server supports that
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  688. Ge0rG moparisthebest: is there authentication in place
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  692. Seve moparisthebest, jonasw, then, from looking at the table, I should put xmpp-ircd in 'IRC Bridge' and biboume and spectrum in 'Popular bridges'?
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  697. moparisthebest Ge0rG: no that's the part that is missing, like, nickserv at least, maybe chanserv
  698. moparisthebest Seve: still not exactly sure what they are after
  699. moparisthebest My thing is useful if they are hosting a muc, IRC users can join directly
  700. moparisthebest Biboumi is useful if they are giving out xmpp accounts
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  705. Ge0rG moparisthebest: will it properly reflect message ids? 😀
  706. moparisthebest Ge0rG: isn't that the mucs job?
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  708. Ge0rG moparisthebest: depends on whom you ask
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  710. Ge0rG moparisthebest: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP-Remarks/XEP-0045:_Multi-User_Chat#Matching_Your_Reflected_Message
  711. moparisthebest Ge0rG: so being a component it knows there are no other clients, so it can just match the sending nick and ignore all
  712. moparisthebest Which I'm guessing it's what it does, been awhile, and I didn't write it all in the first place
  713. Ge0rG moparisthebest: sorry, I was still talking of your reverse gateway.
  714. moparisthebest Yes I am too
  715. Ge0rG I know that biboumi fails hard on reflection
  716. Ge0rG moparisthebest: then I don't understand what you mean. Maybe it's just too late, I will try on Monday
  717. moparisthebest Biboumi is a muc though, my thing just uses mucs
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  719. moparisthebest Ge0rG: If you are guaranteed no other clients are connected to the same account on a muc you don't have to worry about matching
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  724. Ge0rG moparisthebest [20:58]: > An interesting side effect to it that I didn't even plan is you can join from multiple IRC clients with the same Nick and it all just works That just doesn't fit with what you just said
  725. moparisthebest Ah yes so it must only display on recieve and never send
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  772. Seve Would you link to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html as the specification for 'Reply to (quote) messages with reference to the original message'?
  773. Seve Since it has a lot of TODOs, I'm not sure if I should.
  774. Seve Maybe that would scare more than make it interesting
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  777. Kev Link to in what context? References is the way to do that, yes.
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  779. Kev We'll be implementing some references stuff in Swift imminently.
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  782. Seve Kev, that's great to hear! I'm just doing this: https://github.com/SeveFP/KDE_IM_Requirements/wiki/XMPP-Table (The original is here https://community.kde.org/IM_Survey_Results but I can't edit that, so I'm making it on my own on GitHub) The sentence is from those requirements but from another place, where they are a bit more explained. In the table it just says 'Quotes' but I guess I should say references.
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  784. Kev And you've got 393 for just quote formatting.
  785. SamWhited The "TODO: define character appropriately" still seems like an important part missing from references; I probably wouldn't consider it fit for use until that's fixed.
  786. Seve Kev, yes, I wrote that, but I also wanted to specify that there's a XEP for referencing other messages, since I think is something expected. The XEP is still in need of some work, so I'm not sure if I should put it there, because the audience of that table I'm doing may or may not understand how the process work and will think I'm joking or something like that. I guess you get what I mean.
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  790. Seve SamWhited, thank you
  791. Seve SamWhited, by the way, I haven't replied yet, but thank you very much for your answer on the mailing list, very very good and helpful!
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  794. SamWhited Sure thing, I hope it ends up being useful. Their requirements list was a tad vague though, so maybe once they've tightened it up a bit we can help them.
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  800. Seve SamWhited, indeed. It seems that the table I'm filling, is based on https://sessellift.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/results-of-the-requirements-survey-for-a-kde-wide-chat-solution/ So I'm trying to match the requirements on the table with the ones on that blogpost.
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