What's that sasl mode that proves the server knows your password?
moparisthebest
I recall Zash talking about it, like it'd be safe to use with a self signed cert type thing
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moparisthebest: scram is one
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Ge0rG
https://signal.org/blog/signal-foundation/ wow! It's impressive what they've achieved with 2.3 developers, and now they are drowning in money.
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Zash
Ge0rG: Weren't they already drowning in money?
Ge0rG
Zash: they just got 50M USD on top.
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marmistrz
> by Brian Acton, the co-founder of WhatsApp
marmistrz
am I the only one to whom it's suspicous? :)
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Ge0rG
marmistrz: he sold it to facebook and made gazillions on it?
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Ge0rG
> sell software for distribution Jaber and base 450000 jabber - ready business for you is$500
a real bargain!
jonasw
I don’t even get it
marc
Ge0rG: ?
Zash
English is hard
Ge0rG
Just got another incoming XMPP spam flood
jonasw
I think he’s getting spimmed
Ge0rG
somebody is selling a jabber spam bot plus a JID database for 500 usd.
marc
Oh 😮
Seve
A real bargain!
marmistrz
Ge0rG: I know they sold it to fb, what I mean that "if it's shaped in the same way whatsapp was shaped"
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marmistrz
I mean, I'm not using signal (phone number as an ID is a bad idea), but if it's backed by the whatsapp founder, I'd have at least a little more suspicion before ever thinking to use it, judging from the way whatsapp has evolved
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jonasw
marmistrz, maybe the whatsapp founder feels bad for what happened :)
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marmistrz
jonasw, by supporting another walled garden?
jonasw
obviously he’s not opposed to walled gardens
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marmistrz
well, if someone donated 5% of what he did for XMPP client development...
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Guus
There are times that I wonder if our some on our support forums are high on something: "Smack Bubble in Rainbow"
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Guus
(A service provided by openrainbow.com is apparently XMPP based?)
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Ge0rG
marmistrz: there was a time when I respected moxie for what he does. Back then I'd have said that moxie will keep an eye on that money.
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intosi
General service announcement: systemd sucks.</rant>
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MattJ
Old news
intosi
I know.
Ge0rG
XMPP sucks, too.
Zash
Everything sucks.
intosi
No, no, you're wrong there.
intosi
My vacuum cleaner doesn't anymore.
jonasw
well played
Kev
Mine either, actually, its battery doesn't last a full round of the floor it's on :(
Ge0rG
Kev: should've bought a Tesla then :P
Kev
I call it Gir.
Zash
That's it! What we really need is Internet-connected battery-powered IoT vacuum cleaners that collects dust into a blockchain!
Ge0rG
Zash: into a quantum blockchain!
Zash
And battery charging as a service!
intosi
3) profit!
Ge0rG
Zash: and huge batteries, because PoW performance
Guus
Kev: your floor is to large.
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Kev
Very much not!
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Guus
your vacuum cleaner disagrees.
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Kev
My vacuum cleaner is senile, it used to be fine with it.
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Guus
Hmm... Sure your floor didn't grow?
Kev
Moderately.
Guus
I concede.
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Ge0rG
Never underestimate continental drift!
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Guus
I unconcede. What he said!
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pep.
Can somebody add me into memberbot's roster? I sent a subscription presence yesterday
jonasw
pep., ping Alex
pep.
What he said ^
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marc
Ge0rG, are you going to change your langing page such that it accepts xmpp URIs?
Ge0rG
marc: are you going to look up how to do a string replace in Erlang?
marc
Ge0rG, yeah, if you tell me the reason for _not_ using the xmpp URI ;)
Ge0rG
marc: every character counts. more characters = longer QR codes = less readabiliy = higher chance for typos when entering manually
Ge0rG
marc: the "xmpp:" is really redundant there.
Ge0rG
marc: besides, you need to url-encode the JID anyway, so you won't get around custom processing.
Ge0rG
marc: and you could just make the default prefix "xmpp:" for when constructing the link
marc
Ge0rG, that's not a good reason for _not_ accepting it ;)
Ge0rG
marc: yes it is. I'm forcing you to do something that's good for your users.
marc
...
marc
sounds like I need to fork :D
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Ge0rG
marc: or you need to bury your ego and just listen to what my ego says is the right thing™ 😛
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marc
Ge0rG, not sure if this is gonna happen for this thing ;)
jonasw
marc, FWIW, I think Ge0rG has a point here.
marc
jonasw, 5 chars?
marc
are you going to ban too long local parts of a JID too? :D
marc
or too long domain names?
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Ge0rG
marc: now guess why I own yax.im
marc
Ge0rG, because it's a funny name?
marc
probably I'll append the OMEMO keys to the QR code
marc
We generate QR codes for a XMPP URI and 5 OMEMO keys at the moment
marc
Works fine
Ge0rG
marc: to the xmpp URI or to the location URL?
marc
Ge0rG, to the xmpp URI
marc
doesn't make sense to transfer OMEMO keys via an "insecure" channel
Ge0rG
marc: not much probably.
marc
it's for the QR code only
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Ge0rG
marc: I mean obviously it does make sense to transmit them but not to trust them.
Ge0rG
just check for MitM
marc
Ge0rG, nitpicker ;)
Ge0rG
marc: professional pessimist^W security analyst :P
marc
Ge0rG, if we put the URI into the fragment part we don't need to URL encode it AFAIK
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Ge0rG
marc: except when we do.
marc
Ge0rG, hm?
Ge0rG
marc: as I mentioned some days ago, have a look at typical irc Transport JIDs
Ge0rG, wtf should I care about IRC transport URIs for invitation?
Ge0rG
marc: "#" is a valid local part character
marc
Ge0rG, "'#" can be used as username?
Zash
-nodeprep #hello
Bunneh
Zash: #hello
jonasw
yeah
Ge0rGreally needs to change name into Cassandra.
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marc
Ge0rG, but URL encoding is the wrong thing here, we don't need to escape all characters as not URL encoders do
marc
...as normal..
Ge0rG
marc: good luck figuring out the right subset. Also don't forget to tell me!
marc
Ge0rG, if you would _really_ care about the chars you would spend your time to figure it out ;)
Ge0rG
marc: I'm here to point out the problems, not the solutions!
Guus
wait, I thought you were here because you were our mascot?
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Ge0rG
Guus: what? I'm way too sexy for that! 😁
Seve
A sexy mascot is what we need so..
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Guus
w00t! just had my first in-client video conference :)
Guus
it's still very rough around the edges, but still, I'm excited :)
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Seve
Great Guus :D
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Ge0rG
Guus: we are only a decade behind?
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Guus
stop raining on my parade!
Guus
I've created a beautiful freak!
Guus
outdated, yes. incomplete, yes.
Ge0rG
Guus: oh, your own client. Good work, then! :)
Ge0rG
Time to catch up!
Guusdoes the happydance
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marc
Guus: Video conference via XMPP/Jingle?
marc
Ge0rG, After a walk in the sunshine I'm convinced now ;)
Ge0rG
marc: :)
Guus
marc, yes (although we're cheating by embedding jitsi-meet in a browser component)
marc
Guus, is this some closed-source component?
Tobias
Guus, but doing jingle xmpp protocol?
Guus
Jitsi Meet is open source, a webrtc-based solution that uses XMPP (COIN/Colibri/Jingle) for negotiation.
Guus
we've server-sided wrapped that solution in a very-easy-to-install plugin
Guus
clients will detect its presence, and use it isntead of the public instance
Guus
from there, it's a matter of opening the correct URL, and let Jitsi do the rest.
Holger
What's COIN?
Guus
Added bonus is that users of our client can invite anyone that has a browser.
marc
Guus, so you had a video conference between browsers running jitsi meet?
Guus
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0298.html
Guus
marc, yes.
Holger
Guus: Ah, thanks.
marc
Guus, with n > 2?
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Guus
yes. not unlike google talk
Guus
err
Guus
hangouts
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Guus
I can try posting an invite here, if you want
Guus
(beware, alpha-quality software release)
Guus
Please join me in this web-based video-conference room: https://meet.jit.si/xsf
marc
Guus, masked camera here ;)
marc
But I can see you :D
Guus
I am nice to look at :D
marc
Nice
marc
Works fine
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Guus
yeah, one-on-one is peer-to-peer
marc
Maybe somebody else can join to test with n > 2? :)
Guus
beyond that, a bridge kicks in
marc
where is that bridge hosted?
Guus
I've added a uuid to make the room name somewhat more unique, but neglected doing that in a muc context
Guus
it's part of the Jitsi setup. We're now using their public service, but that is also deployable as an Openfire plugin
marc
Nice, now we need this in some desktop / moible client :)
Guus
(or a standalone installation if you go with their setup)
Guus
they do have a mobile client
marc
okay, now we need this in other mobile clients :D
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Guus
they have an API that potentially is usable for that
Guus
not my area of expertise though
SamWhited
Jitsi doesn't like my home network for some reason, that's new.
Guus
I popped out for a second
Guus
still, you should've been able to join that Meet.
Guus
... you know that, having worked at their stuff :)
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SamWhited
one would think, but I've already forgotten most of how it works.
SamWhited
You're the expert, fix it Guus!
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Guus
if you're trying to use their public service, it should pretty much work out of the box, if you're not blocking outbound traffic and have a relatively sane NAT setup.
Guus
other than that, Damian is a hero :)
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SamWhited
Indeed
SamWhited
I'll dig in later, catching the bus now. My network hasn't changed to my knowledge, so maybe it just needs a kick
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Ge0rGis just "participating" in a Lync conference call. The audio works for the first second, and then there is silence.
Maranda
Nice
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Ge0rG
I wonder when my coworkers will figure it out.
Ge0rG
I'm only 19mins and two reboots in.
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Maranda
Wasn't Lync one of those dismissed things by Microsoft btw?
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Maranda
(it should be "Skype for Bussness" now)
Ge0rG
Maranda: it's not dismissed, just renamed.
Maranda
🤣
Maranda
Touche
Ge0rG
Third reboot, same result.
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Maranda
Keep going, try with a kick or two since you're at it 🤣
So I don't see many changes from last time around. Did we progress on any of the items in our Trello, and discuss it?
MattJ
I think we skipped last week because of lack of people, and I don't remember the week before that
Guus
we skipped the week before too
Guus
no progress that I am aware of, although one new item was added
Guus
the comm-wt card
ralphm
Ok
Ge0rG
And I forgot to write to an ML regarding a SPAM SIG :(
ralphm
Ok, let's start with these then
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ralphm
1. Communications Team
Guus
if desirable, we can do a post-mortem on the summit/fosdem too
ralphm
(ok)
ralphm
I'm with Kev on this, that we don't really need this to be formalized
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ralphm
(at the moment)
ralphm
I'd rather just first see some stuff happening, without the yak shaving
Guus
I think it helps to get stuff under way
ralphm
How?
Guus
by defining that team members get access to things they want to use to produce stuff.
ralphm
I strongly believe we should get away from needing some kind of formal structure to be able to do things.
MattJ
I'm hearing that, combined with "we need to restrict access to XSF resources"
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Ge0rG
you might want to approve the persons named for comm-wt access to github, before they go away in disdain.
Guus
well, getting access to resources are a pain. I've done that plenty of times recently, and it was always painful and took way to long for comfort.
ralphm
Ge0rG: wait what?
Guus
i'm not seeing harm in us formaly defining the team again, and defining that its members get read/write access to our website and social media accounts.
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MattJ
Same here
Ge0rG
ralphm: referring to JC's last email on that thread.
MattJ
I agree this shouldn't be so painful, but it appears to me that (re)formation of the team seems the least painful way for everyone involved
Guus
(also, the overhead of us doing this is minor)
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ralphm
But since this is GitHub, why can't we start with pull requests (that don't require any additional permissions) and move from that? I think that's the point Kev tried to make. I'm not opposed to restart a formal team, but I don't see it being on the critical path.
Ge0rG
ralphm: the deployment cycle via PRs and editor bugging is long and frustrating
Guus
ralphm: because it's keeping the team-members dependent of others, and thus less effective. Also, I really don't see the harm in not giving them access.
Guus
why not facilitate them if it benefits us all?
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Guus
as I said, most of the work for board on this is this debate. After that, it's asking iteam to add some permissions to existing resources.
Guus
which I assume will take them about five minutes to implement
intosi
iteam can do that, words need only be said.
ralphm
Ok, so let me get this straight. The deployment cycle of the site itself is cumbersome and would require an Editor to approve?
intosi
It does not.
Guus
no, it now requires <unnamed entity> (usually me) to approve.
intosi
It requires someone with commit permissions on the website repo to merge the PR.
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MattJ
Which is currently (iteam + editors)?
Guus
no, it's undefined, as far as I know
Ge0rG
wouldn't that be another reason to name it "comm-team"?
Guus
(defining that comm-team gets access would be another nice side-eff... what he said)
Guus
What would be arguments for _not_ doing this?
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ralphm
Well, it is just a bit of work to get going.
ralphm
You need a charter, a chair and Members (only).
Guus
I believe that's neglible.
Guus
the charter has been proposed, as has the chair and member list
Guus
(on list, and in @commsteam)
Guus
@commteam, not @commsteam
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MattJ
I'm also inclined towards "let's just do it"
ralphm
Ok. I didn't see the chair mentioned. I have no strong objections to having a formal team with only those Members having those accesses for publishing at xmpp.org
Guus
the chair was mentioned in the MUC only (being JC)
ralphm
Aha
Guus
it'd also be good if that team can use our social media accounts (which currently is limited to Twitter, I think?)
Ge0rG
It would be great to mention all the many XMPP-deploying projects on @XMPP
ralphm
So the proposal is as the e-mail with JC as chair.
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ralphm
The only objection I have is Simon not (currently) being a Member.
ralphm
AFIAK
Guus
ah, good catch.
Guus
bylaws do say: "Participation in Teams shall be limited to elected Members of the Corporation."
ralphm
Indeed that was my point
ralphm
So assuming Guus is motioning this with the exception of Simon, I'm +1
Guus
he's not listed as a member, nor do find an application for him
Guus
Ok, I'm motioning.
ralphm
For the record:
Daniel Wisnewski (Daniel_W)
Jan-Carel Brand (jcbrand) as Chair
Nicolas Vérité (Nyco)
Severino Ferrer de la Peñita (Seve or SouL)
Charter: The team's mission is to inform the XMPP community and interested parties on news and recent developments within XMPP ecosystem.
MattJ
So he can still submit PRs/etc. but a member will need to approve
MattJ
Still an acceptable situation if you ask me
ralphm
Right
Guus
agreed
ralphm
I left off the second part of the charter as it seems superfluous and not alligned with the bylaws w.r.t. openness of the team itself. Of course others are still free to contribute through the Team.
ralphm
aligned even
Guus
agreed (as was agreed on in the mail htread)
ralphm
Yeah, just repeating here for the record
Guus
I'm +1 to the formation of the WT, the chair and member list, and the charter.
ralphm
+1 (again)
MattJ
+1
ralphm
Yay
Guus
also, I motion that we grant read/write permission to the source code repository that holds the XMPP.org website code to all members of the Communications work team - which should reflect future team changes.
ralphm
The motion carries.
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ralphm
Guus: I don't think we need to formalize that per se. But I'm sure Kev and intosi can make sure of the necessary technical requirements for the Team to carry out their task.
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Guus
I'd simply like to avoid a situation where everyone looks at eachother and wonders who is allowed access, by making this explicit.
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intosi
Is there a list of github user ids for the members of the comms team?
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Guus
intosi: I'll ask them to provide that
intosi
Ta.
ralphm
I'm sure there will be other things that access is required for and I'm not sure if asking Board every time is needed. If iteam would give out too many creds, that'd be the day.
intosi
Sure. Comms team can just ask iteam.
Guus
I was going to follow up with one more similar motion, for social media accounts :)
Ge0rG, haven't we discussed the spam team 50 times already?
ralphm
We actually rejected it because there wasn't a feeling of needing a team of SIG for doing things around that topic.
Ge0rG
MattJ: with the Spam Fighting Manifesto, there is some traction in the open to improve default server configs, write modules to block domains etc.
ralphm
Great.
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Ge0rG
but that said Manifesto is made by a single volunteer who lacks time to incorporate feedback from server admins already.
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MattJ
Github repo and get people to submit PRs - if unable to merge PRs, find the people that you imagine in the SIG and grant them access to merge the PRs
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intosi
An impromptu SIGish, if you like.
Ge0rG
I had hoped for something more official than my private github account, but okay.
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ralphm
why?
ralphm
Please, and I have asked this before, why can't you do any of this without 'something more official'?
ralphm
I don't understand this at all.
Ge0rG
I'm doing it already, as far as my time permits. Sorry for bothering you.
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intosi
comm team effective immediately, with the list JC mailed?
intosi
I note that Winfried replied that he wanted to be on it as well.
Ge0rG
intosi: without Simon AFAIU
ralphm
Ge0rG: it is not about bothering. It is about not feeling for doing a lot of bureaucracy just because.
Ge0rG
ralphm: ah, I see
Guus
intosi, in my understanding, Winfried was in, Simon out.
jonasw
couldn’t we put the anti spam manifesto under the xsf account?
ralphm
intosi: yes. I think Winfried already has permissions, by the way, and I wasn't sure if was actually applying for the team or merely contributing.
Guus
intosi, scratch that
Guus
we didn't include Winfried when voting (I overlooked that)
ralphm
jonasw: why?
jonasw
ralphm, dunno, if georg is unhappy with having that under his account
ralphm
The TLS manifesto was also not an XSF activity and worked out fine
jonasw
I’m just throwing ideas in the room
MattJ
jonasw, as I understand it some people are opposed to the manifesto. It's just going to cause way more debate and just be counter-productive when it's totally unnecessary in the first place
jonasw
yeah, true
ralphm
and what MattJ said applied to that manifesto, too
MattJ
Right
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intosi
I have added JC as maintainer of the comm team group
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MattJ
I'm not opposed to the manifesto, and Ge0rG, if you need help, I and others would be more than willing I'm sure
intosi
Invited Nÿco, kept Winfried in it for now, and require two more github user names, for SouL and for Daniel_W.
MattJ
Thanks intosi
Guus
SeveFP <-- Soul's github
intosi
Guus: ta
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Ge0rG
MattJ: thanks for your offer!
winfried
In is ok for me (I am in a meeting, can't communicate all the time)
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intosi
I suggest that the comm teams adds its own page to the website, and optionally fixes its own wiki page :)
Guus
it's nice how we keep having the same conversation in two different MUCs :)
Guus
I just proposed that (sans the wiki, but that's a good idea)
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intosi
Don't know in which muc that happened, but I'm not in it :)
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Guus
commteam@muc.xmpp.org
intosi
Ah, not something I'd want to be in on a permanent basis currently :)
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Guus
you not being in it made it more impressive
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intosi
Great minds, fools, there was something with a comparison there.
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marc
Ge0rG, fixed my ejabberd implementation but your landing page doesn't work on "firefox klar"
marc
Ge0rG, no button is clickable
marc
Ge0rG, can you verify and at least add an issue please
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marc
works fine on firefox (desktop version)
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waqas
marc: Is that different than Firefox Focus?
marc
waqas, it seems, I don't know if they use a different engine, probably not
marc
maybe some javascript issue but at least some javascript code works
marc
the xmpp URI is correct etc.
marc
waqas, oh, thought you're asking about "normal" firefox
waqas
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.focus&hl=en and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.klar&hl=en look practically the same, both were updated on February 5, and only Focus is listed on the Mozilla page: https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Mozilla&hl=en
marc
waqas, does it work for "firefox focus"?
waqas
I was asking what Klar was, as I've only heard of Focus
marc
waqas, AFAIK it's just the german version of firefox focus
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waqas
Ah, right you are: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/difference-between-firefox-focus-and-firefox-klar