But I imagine they'll delegate to the commteam now.
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Ge0rG
I'd really like to get the two articles twittered about. Something like "Congratulations to EVE Online for joining the robust and scalable XMPP ecosystem! <link1> <link2>"
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marc
jonasw, I can push a change for xep401 to use namespaces for the nodes, shall I?
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marc
Ge0rG, can you think of a way how we can properly manage interoperability between XEP-0158 and XEP-0401?
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marc
Just using both fields in the IBR form would be my proposal :D
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Ge0rG
marc: aren't there ibr captchas already?
Ge0rG
That would be an argument pro data forms indeed.
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marc
Ge0rG, XEP-0158 is IBR captcha
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marc
Ge0rG, yes, it would be "easy" to combine both
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Ge0rG
the _right_ thing would probably be to integrate the captcha into the form sent back when you attempt to make an invitation
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marc
Ge0rG, good point
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marc
Ge0rG, can you post that on the ML?
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Ge0rG
marc: no. It will end up in pointless debate about how to make the onboarding harder.
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Ge0rG
marc: I don't have captchas on my server and I'm perfectly able to kill off spam accounts.
marc
Ge0rG, okay, so you don't like the CAPTCHA idea?
Ge0rG
captchas are a pointless insult to your users.
Ge0rG
I could live with captchas to external users sending me spam, but only as a workaround for the inability to delay stanzas in mod_firewall
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marc
Ge0rG, okay, actually I don't care about botnets and spam because I run a private service - you and the other XSF guys should know what's best
Ge0rG
marc: "the other XSF guys" might disagree with me, but I don't care.
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Ge0rG, doesn't sound like we can make fast progress with this XEP ;)
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Ge0rG
marc: the main question that remains for me is: data forms or ad-hoc ibr extension?
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Ge0rG
So far, only Jonas reacted to my rationale
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Ge0rG
I wish for some more feedback from the council members that raised concerns with ad-hoc ibr
marc
Ge0rG, okay, to me it looks like data forms are the best solution but I don't have much experience with the XMPP internals
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marc
And I thought the IBR data forms are exactly for such extensions
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Ge0rG
marc: data forms are well suited to ask the user questions
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marc
Ge0rG, actually I don't get why you're against data forms
Ge0rG
Less so to mix hidden and visible fields
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marc
Ge0rG, okay, I'll stop working on the implementation until I get some feedback from @standards how we proceed
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marc
Unfortunately, from next month on I won't have that much time
Ge0rG
marc: I wonder how big the needed changes are afterwards
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marc
Ge0rG: depends on how the general feedback is
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marc
There is no feedback at all except from Jonas and you
Ge0rG
marc: I mean to switch between ibr and data forms
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marc
Ge0rG: not that big... I already changed it ;)
Ge0rG
marc: then you can just go on implementing everything else
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Zash
{jabber🇮🇶register}token?
Zash
argh
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Ge0rG
🤣
jonasw
marc: yes for the node name change
Ge0rG
Zash: I've put an updated version of the plugin online
Zash
Inventing new elements in an existing namespace seems weird to me
Zash
"online"
Ge0rG
Zash: same URL
Zash
Ge0rG: Where did you publish this?
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Ge0rG
Zash: just search in your history for the random pastebin id
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Zash
\o/
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marc
jonasw: okay
Guus
but yeah, first order of business is to make sure that the certificates that are used actually cover the server host name
Guus
(which is why I got started working on certs in Openfire in the first place)
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Guus
I'm thinking that you locally have both a proper certificate, and match your xmpp domain name to your server FQDN.
Guus
that saves you some trouble :)
Guus
hey, what?
Guus
hargh, my tabs changed :)
Guus
disregard my last text :)
Ge0rG
Certificate verification is an arcane witchcraft. Don't get into it if you want to prevent embarrassing vulnerabilities
Ge0rG
Speaking from experience
Zash
It is known
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marc
jonasw, on top of my pending change?
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Ge0rG
Zash: https://op-co.de/tmp/emoji_ascii.py (returned to a PC now)
Zash
Thanks
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Ge0rG
(same URL as always, I was just mocking you for putting everything into ungreppable pastebins; sorry)
jonasw
marc, better not
jonasw
marc, Ge0rG seems to not like that change :)
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Ge0rG
marc: your PR contained both the error fixes and a change from adhoc-IBR to data-forms, right?
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marc
Ge0rG: yes
marc
jonasw: how to handle the version number then?
jonasw
marc, don’t, that’s the editors job in case of doubt
marc
jonasw: also no description?
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jonasw
marc, make descriptive commit message s:)
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marc
jonasw: okay
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Ge0rG
jonasw: I don't like one of the two changes that were part of the same commit
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jonasw
Ge0rG, true
Ge0rG
jonasw: but please don't get me started about commit chains depending on dead ends
Ge0rG
jonasw: irregardless of what I like, I will bow to Council's decision
jonasw
what is councils decision on this experimental xep?
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Ge0rG
jonasw: it was accepted as experimental with some IBR data-forms sentiment
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Maranda
About games using xmpp for chat, Perfect World Entertainment/Cryptic Studios use XMPP for their out of game to in-game chat interface from like 2011
Maranda
(e.g. Star Trek Online)
Maranda
(Neverwinter)
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vanitasvitae
I like the fact, that a Star Trek game is using XMPP given the fact, that all species in the star trek universe can call each others ships without any issues
Ge0rG
Kev: so who is _technically able_ to post on @xmpp twitter?
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Zash
I remember mention of Twitter account setup such that people could be given access easily. How did that go?
Ge0rG
Guus: I didn't volunteer because I plainly lack the time
Guus
As nicely illustrated by answering after 2 1/2 hours
Ge0rG
Guus: sorry :(
Guus
no worries :)
Ge0rG
Guus: do you know who can twitter out things?
Ge0rG
Ah, there it was already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16445365
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marc
jonasw, done in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/592
marc
Oh damn, I should adapt the examples :D
jonasw
yeah
jonasw
do that :)
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marc
okay, done
jonasw
lgtm
jonasw
Ge0rG, I can’t seem to find councils statemetn on easy user onboarding
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Ge0rG
jonasw: I wish council minutes were better greppable.
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Ge0rG
Can't we have links to the council MUC from the XEP history? :D
jonasw
hah
Ge0rG
jonasw: Dave's comment is in the lines after http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-01-17#16:06:45
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Ge0rG
jonasw: Kev commented on-list:
> Not blocking this (+1), but the addition of fields into IBR seems wrong - don’t we have xep4 in IBR for this reason?
jonasw
ok
jonasw
so I should be merging the PR against 401 and you delayed that for no reason? ;-)
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Ge0rG
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-January/034152.html is the link
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Ge0rG
jonasw: yes. I'm an asshole :P
jonasw
m(
jonasw
I know, zinid said that
Ge0rG
jonasw: seriously though, I provided my rationale for adding fields into IBR on-list, and I hoped that Dave and Kev would comment on that.
jonasw
Ge0rG, well, okay. so should we be waiting longer?
Ge0rG
jonasw: yes please.
jonasw
gaaah just say that! :P
jonasw
you wasted a minute of my time :P
Ge0rG
jonasw: I what? Why?
jonasw
because of thinking on whether or not to merge this now and hunting references and so on :P
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Ge0rG
jonasw: maybe data-forms have an advantage for server developers, where a single hook API can be exposed for all registration-related things. I don't know.
Ge0rG
All I know is how it's the easiest for a client.
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jonasw
I find it useful to have extensibility here
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Ge0rG
Do we have something for hidden fields in data forms?
jonasw: like field type hidden, but to be filled out by the client
jonasw
Ge0rG,
> hidden The field is not shown to the form-submitting entity, but instead is returned with the form. The form-submitting entity SHOULD NOT modify the value of a hidden field, but MAY do so if such behavior is defined for the "using protocol".
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jonasw
so exactly like field type hidden?
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Ge0rG
jonasw: I was just going to post that quote, yes!
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SaltyBones
so, just in case you don't have it on your radar yet
I just attended a talk about it and tried to pull out of the guys nose what I have to do.
SaltyBones
And the answer is definitely not nothing.
jonasw
what is the answer then?
SaltyBones
In fact it is apparently so far away from nothing that it can only be described as "it's complicated" and he pretty much suggested that I shut down.
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jonasw
"you"?
SaltyBones
Well, to not complicate things I only told him that I am running an e-mail server for family and friends...
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SaltyBones
And apparently that means you actually have to do a bunch of things that somehow magically conform to the legalese of risk analysis and all the other umpteen steps I just heard about...
SaltyBones
I think nobody knows what it will mean in practice yet. The documents are complex and contain the usual, excessive amount of weaselwords.
jonasw
can someone not affected sue me?
jonasw
if not, I don’t care.
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SaltyBones
I have no clue. He at some point seemed to answer this question with yes and later with no. :p
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SaltyBones
I just wanted to mention it.
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Ge0rG
SaltyBones: I'm a professional GDPR consultant. I can support you at only 175€/hr.
Zash
Is "Self-host in your own home" still the best way to avoid all legalities?
SaltyBones
Ask Ge0rG! :D
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Ge0rG
Zash: no. "Do not store other people's data" is the best way.
Zash
Good thing we made MAM mandatory!
Ge0rG
Zash: you might understand now why I insist on https://prosody.im/issues/867 so much.
Zash
Ge0rG: I'd probably go with disabling it entirely until explicitly enabled via prefs if I were me
Ge0rG
Zash: are you you?
Zash
Not sure
Ge0rG
I'm sure I'm not you.
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Zash
Uh, this doesn't look right: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0158.html#registrar-formtypes-register