XSF Discussion - 2018-02-24

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09:12:59 jonasw seems like it
09:13:47 jonasw maybe an editorial mistake that the jabber:iq:register FORM_TYPE isn’t used in the register workflow?
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19:10:46 Guus Does the Dino client use a fixed resource-part value?
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19:12:10 Zash tries
19:12:15 Zash gets "dino.8ec193f8"
19:12:16 Seve Their MUC: chat@dino.im
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20:13:10 jonasw SamWhited, uh, are you sure about that?
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20:13:30 jonasw grepping through my presence, I see the following XEP-0115 nodes which emit(ted) sha1 hashes: node='http://bitlbee.org/xmpp/caps' node='http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/riddim/' node='http://conversations.im' node='http://gajim.org' node='http://mcabber.com/caps' node='http://miranda-ng.org/caps' node='http://pidgin.im/' node='http://psi-dev.googlecode.com/caps' node='http://psi-im.org' node='http://psi-plus.com' node='https://dino.im' node='https://github.com/robbiehanson/XMPPFramework' node='http://sleekxmpp.com/ver/1.3.2' node='http://slixmpp.com/ver/1.2.4' node='http://slixmpp.com/ver/1.3.0' node='http://swift.im' node='http://tkabber.jabber.ru/' node='http://vacuum-im.googlecode.com' node='http://www.android.com/gtalk/client/caps' node='http://www.apple.com/ichat/caps' node='http://www.eyecu.ru' node='http://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/smack' node='http://www.profanity.im'
20:13:50 Zash ENOCTX
20:13:50 jonasw this should be about the total ecosystem and I’m wondering where you’re getting the base64 from
20:13:51 SamWhited ahh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood; I thought he was looking at the bindata, let me check again.
20:14:15 jonasw Zash, {xep 0153} presence update SHA1 encoding
20:14:17 Bunneh Zash: vCard-Based Avatars (Historical, Active, 2006-08-16) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0153.html
20:14:31 jonasw XEP schema says base64, XEP normative text says nothing about that, the whole ecosystem uses lowercase hex
20:14:52 Zash Classic ecosystem.
20:15:05 jonasw Zash, also, newest standards@ thread
20:15:54 Zash I look away from mutt for 5 seconds and there's a bazillion new posts...
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20:18:05 daniel I think every one uses hex
20:18:28 daniel Also the node in the pep avatar is also hex
20:18:57 SamWhited It references RFC3174 which shows things in hex, I'm pretty sure. Still, seems as if it should be clarified.
20:19:09 Zash hex vs b64 inconsistensy has happened before, like in the hashes xep, and jingle file transfer
20:24:31 daniel > Now this is fun. First of all, the mantra: The Schemas Are Not Normative. the schemas are not normative? the examples aren't either. so what is?
20:24:47 daniel and why do we have schemas and examples
20:24:55 Zash the text is normative
20:25:11 Zash which is great when all the text says is "this is how you do it:" followed by examples
20:25:14 SamWhited I wish we'd get rid of schemas, for something that supposedly makes things less confusing it ends up introducing a lot of confusion.
20:25:36 SamWhited And make examples normative since that's all anyone looks at anyways.
20:25:56 Zash SamWhited: Unless the author goes the distance to make the schemas normative-worthy perhaps?
20:26:15 SamWhited That would be nice, except that most authors don't understand XML schema, it's too confusing, and way too easy to get wrong.
20:26:37 jonasw also, things we like to do are hard to express in XML schemas, see {xep 30}
20:26:37 Bunneh jonasw: Service Discovery (Standards Track, Final, 2017-10-03) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html
20:27:43 SamWhited Right, you end up needing xml schema 2 which was more or less never implemented.
20:27:44 jonasw SamWhited, you scared me there for a second with your base64 :)
20:28:26 SamWhited jonasw: amusingly enough, I was confused because he sent xml schema…
20:28:41 SamWhited (okay, that's not entirely fair, he did say "hash" as well, which I should have understood to mean the sha1)
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