jonaswZash, first the editors are going to drown in CFEs ;-)
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Ge0rGYay, I've got another change into XEP-0045! Two more and I've fixed it sufficiently to not need MIX any more! 🙌
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KevI'm not convinced :)
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KevWell, I guess if you switch it to work on bare JIDs, make occupancy persistent, synched with the user's server, and then add pubsub nodes you'd be most of the way there. You'd also have MIX.
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jonaswKev, MIX doesn’t really sync with the users server or does it?
jonaswIIRC MIX does not handle s2s link downtimes
KevThe state of which rooms you're in does.
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Ge0rGjonasw: MIX contains strong words about ensuring consistency over s2s failures, but no hints for implementations on how to actually achieve that.
jonaswsomething something s2s SM
Ge0rGI'm really curious to see that play out in the wild.
Ge0rGI've got popcorn and spectator seats.
Ge0rGI might not even veto MIX in case it comes in fast enough
danielGe0rG: that popcorn will be pretty stale by the time mix gets implemented
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Ge0rGdaniel: touché
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SamWhitedwell played…
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lovetoxServers MUST NOT include the <stanza-id/> element in messages addressed to JIDs that do not have permissions to access the archive, such as a users’s outgoing messages to their contacts. However servers SHOULD include the element as a child of the forwarded message when using Message Carbons (XEP-0280) [3]
lovetoxwhy is this a SHOULD?
lovetoxthis makes the whole reason we have mam:2 useless
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moparisthebesthow do we go from "I made this strange but useful-to-me thing by tying 3 different proprietary silos together" to "I made this strange but useful-to-me thing with XMPP" ?
moparisthebestis it that they don't know about XMPP or is it just shinier to use proprietary silos?
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Ge0rGmoparisthebest: it's because there are more people who know http than xmpp, and because xmpp just lacks the right abstraction layer for IoT
SamWhitedNo, it's because it's infinitely easier to use proprietary silos that have good support and nice HTTP APIs.
SamWhited(too late; what Ge0rG said)
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moparisthebestall that looks way harder than how I'd probably do it, but meh
fippoall xmpp needs is lots of dev advocates who write about poop buttons...
Zashhow will the poop button developers get paid?
SamWhitedtrue story; fippo ++
waqas💩
jonaswZash, shitty
waqas💸
moparisthebestI've done similar things but I guess they just aren't fancy and I don't blog about them
waqasI'm curious about how well emojis work in non-desktop XMPP clients
Zashmoparisthebest: Do things and talk about them.
jonaswwaqas, mobile you mean? pretty well
SamWhitedI'd think they would work better than on the desktop ones, no?
Link Mauvewaqas, in console it just works, if you have a recent enough glibc and a font.
moparisthebestlike when the amazon buttons came out, when you pushed it it sent out an ARP request, and I called sendxmpp
Zashwaqas: Better than on desktop probably
moparisthebestbut it's trivial, does that stuff require writing about?
SamWhitedOn the more tightly controlled mobile system you presumably have nice built-in fonts for it and support in the application platform.
jonaswneed to figure out how to load my own font into QWebEngineView >.>
waqasZash: I was also thinking of CLI clients, do those actually show emojis well? I'd expect font issues
Link Mauvewaqas, yes.
SamWhitedmoparisthebest: the problem with that statement is two fold: 1) it's probably not trivial for most people, 2) it's not about things being difficult, we don't need people to blog about difficult or complex things as much, we want to show that you can do things simply, so if it is actually trivial (or at least simple), blog away!
SamWhitedInteresting, simple projects are what attract people who will spend a weekend doing it. If it's not trivial, most likely no one wants to waste too much time on it.
Link Mauvewaqas, https://linkmauve.fr/files/wayland-screenshot-2018-03-07_21-39-01.png
Link MauveAh, too late.
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moparisthebestI have a blog, but my last blog post was about new blog software on april 24th 2013 lol
ZashTho my screenshot has Ge0rGs plugin
moparisthebestand the last one before that was a guest blog poster in 2006
moparisthebestsuper active, in other words
SamWhitedmy terminal is not that fancy :( https://i.imgur.com/SF16kJf.png
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Ge0rGfippo: what we need is a compelling abstraction layer with appropriate libraries. Something where you define your sensors and actors in a human readable way, eg. "button, two-state", "230V relais", and then those objects automatically log into your private server and you can define rules like "button DEADBEEF triggers relais FOOBAR"
moparisthebestthat sounds like a tool you build using something like xmpp in the background
SamWhitedThat seems a bit specific to IoT (I don't disagree, but I'd start with decent, well-documented libraries in a number of popular languages that hide the XMPP specifics from you as much as possible…)
moparisthebestin general I'd say that's too much overhead and too restrictive
moparisthebestbut it seems like what all these proprietary APIs do, so maybe it's what people want
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Ge0rGfippo: what we need is a compelling abstraction layer with appropriate libraries. Something where you define your sensors and actors in a human readable way, eg. "button, two-state", "230V relais", and then those objects automatically log into your private server and you can define rules like "button DEADBEEF triggers relais FOOBAR"
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A̫̦͚̳̪͍ͧ̐̓̃̐lͥ̓̓̌ͧ̾e̺̰͉̣̝̺̱̎̈́̿ͯ̽͗ẋ̥̙͑ͩ̌ͨͤhas joined
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Ge0rGSamWhited: yes, that's very specific to IoT, but it's something that we need to differentiate over MQTT, CoAP and other contenders
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lovetoxthis call to experience
lovetoxshould only people answer that implemented the xep fully?
ZashIt's kinda like Last Calls
lovetoxor is it in general of interest what parts are used for which use case in clients?
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Zashgoes to read what the posts actually say
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SamWhitedlovetox: why you didn't implement it or why you only partially did would be useful too.
SamWhiteduse cases are great
lovetoxk thanks
ZashIf you feel that you can answer any of the questions then that's surely useful info.
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jjrhhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254 'Slack' turning off their irc and XMPP gateways :p
Zashwhu
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Link MauveOr how walled gardens first expose standard protocols to get the nerd crowds to root for them, and once they obtain some critical mass stop with that.
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ThurahTwho needs/use slack anyway...
ThurahTmatrix otoh is somewhat useful.
ThurahTstill <3 XMPP.
Link MauveThurahT, a few millions of users, at least.
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waqasThe answer to "who needs/use slack" is a fairly large set of organizations :)
ThurahTinconceivable!
Link MauveI’ve had to use it for a client.
Zashwaqas: You gon' have fun now?
waqasMy company uses it. There's quite a bit in the UX that I wish XMPP clients had.
XSF Discussion - 2018-03-07