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jonasw
{xep 155}
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Bunneh
jonasw: Stanza Session Negotiation (Standards Track, Draft, 2016-01-20) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0155.html
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Zash
Are we devs going to drown in CFEs now?
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peter
Yes, you are!
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jonasw
Zash, first the editors are going to drown in CFEs ;-)
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Ge0rG
Yay, I've got another change into XEP-0045! Two more and I've fixed it sufficiently to not need MIX any more! 🙌
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Kev
I'm not convinced :)
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Kev
Well, I guess if you switch it to work on bare JIDs, make occupancy persistent, synched with the user's server, and then add pubsub nodes you'd be most of the way there. You'd also have MIX.
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jonasw
Kev, MIX doesn’t really sync with the users server or does it?
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jonasw
IIRC MIX does not handle s2s link downtimes
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Kev
The state of which rooms you're in does.
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Ge0rG
jonasw: MIX contains strong words about ensuring consistency over s2s failures, but no hints for implementations on how to actually achieve that.
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jonasw
something something s2s SM
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Ge0rG
I'm really curious to see that play out in the wild.
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Ge0rG
I've got popcorn and spectator seats.
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Ge0rG
I might not even veto MIX in case it comes in fast enough
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daniel
Ge0rG: that popcorn will be pretty stale by the time mix gets implemented
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Ge0rG
daniel: touché
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SamWhited
well played…
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lovetox
Servers MUST NOT include the <stanza-id/> element in messages addressed to JIDs that do not have permissions to access the archive, such as a users’s outgoing messages to their contacts. However servers SHOULD include the element as a child of the forwarded message when using Message Carbons (XEP-0280) [3]
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lovetox
why is this a SHOULD?
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lovetox
this makes the whole reason we have mam:2 useless
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moparisthebest
how do we go from "I made this strange but useful-to-me thing by tying 3 different proprietary silos together" to "I made this strange but useful-to-me thing with XMPP" ?
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moparisthebest
https://www.twilio.com/blog/2018/03/iot-poop-button-python-twilio-aws.html
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moparisthebest
is it that they don't know about XMPP or is it just shinier to use proprietary silos?
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest: it's because there are more people who know http than xmpp, and because xmpp just lacks the right abstraction layer for IoT
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SamWhited
No, it's because it's infinitely easier to use proprietary silos that have good support and nice HTTP APIs.
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SamWhited
(too late; what Ge0rG said)
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moparisthebest
all that looks way harder than how I'd probably do it, but meh
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fippo
all xmpp needs is lots of dev advocates who write about poop buttons...
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Zash
how will the poop button developers get paid?
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SamWhited
true story; fippo ++
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waqas
💩
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jonasw
Zash, shitty
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waqas
💸
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moparisthebest
I've done similar things but I guess they just aren't fancy and I don't blog about them
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waqas
I'm curious about how well emojis work in non-desktop XMPP clients
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Zash
moparisthebest: Do things and talk about them.
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jonasw
waqas, mobile you mean? pretty well
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SamWhited
I'd think they would work better than on the desktop ones, no?
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Link Mauve
waqas, in console it just works, if you have a recent enough glibc and a font.
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moparisthebest
like when the amazon buttons came out, when you pushed it it sent out an ARP request, and I called sendxmpp
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Zash
waqas: Better than on desktop probably
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moparisthebest
but it's trivial, does that stuff require writing about?
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SamWhited
On the more tightly controlled mobile system you presumably have nice built-in fonts for it and support in the application platform.
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jonasw
need to figure out how to load my own font into QWebEngineView >.>
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waqas
Zash: I was also thinking of CLI clients, do those actually show emojis well? I'd expect font issues
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Link Mauve
waqas, yes.
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SamWhited
moparisthebest: the problem with that statement is two fold: 1) it's probably not trivial for most people, 2) it's not about things being difficult, we don't need people to blog about difficult or complex things as much, we want to show that you can do things simply, so if it is actually trivial (or at least simple), blog away!
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jonasw
waqas, https://sotecware.net/images/dont-puush-me/KmzOKUa0WA5-e_lLWT5Bx0s9lYxOaSOtqLcl1_tTv18.png
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SamWhited
Interesting, simple projects are what attract people who will spend a weekend doing it. If it's not trivial, most likely no one wants to waste too much time on it.
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Zash
waqas: https://www.zash.se/upload/3sakjSXMvw0y.png
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Link Mauve
waqas, https://linkmauve.fr/files/wayland-screenshot-2018-03-07_21-39-01.png
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Link Mauve
Ah, too late.
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moparisthebest
I have a blog, but my last blog post was about new blog software on april 24th 2013 lol
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Zash
Tho my screenshot has Ge0rGs plugin
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moparisthebest
and the last one before that was a guest blog poster in 2006
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moparisthebest
super active, in other words
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SamWhited
my terminal is not that fancy :( https://i.imgur.com/SF16kJf.png
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Ge0rG
fippo: what we need is a compelling abstraction layer with appropriate libraries. Something where you define your sensors and actors in a human readable way, eg. "button, two-state", "230V relais", and then those objects automatically log into your private server and you can define rules like "button DEADBEEF triggers relais FOOBAR"
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moparisthebest
that sounds like a tool you build using something like xmpp in the background
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SamWhited
That seems a bit specific to IoT (I don't disagree, but I'd start with decent, well-documented libraries in a number of popular languages that hide the XMPP specifics from you as much as possible…)
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moparisthebest
in general I'd say that's too much overhead and too restrictive
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moparisthebest
but it seems like what all these proprietary APIs do, so maybe it's what people want
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Ge0rG
fippo: what we need is a compelling abstraction layer with appropriate libraries. Something where you define your sensors and actors in a human readable way, eg. "button, two-state", "230V relais", and then those objects automatically log into your private server and you can define rules like "button DEADBEEF triggers relais FOOBAR"
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Ge0rG
SamWhited: yes, that's very specific to IoT, but it's something that we need to differentiate over MQTT, CoAP and other contenders
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lovetox
this call to experience
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lovetox
should only people answer that implemented the xep fully?
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Zash
It's kinda like Last Calls
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lovetox
or is it in general of interest what parts are used for which use case in clients?
- Zash goes to read what the posts actually say
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SamWhited
lovetox: why you didn't implement it or why you only partially did would be useful too.
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SamWhited
use cases are great
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lovetox
k thanks
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Zash
If you feel that you can answer any of the questions then that's surely useful info.
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jjrh
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254 'Slack' turning off their irc and XMPP gateways :p
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Zash
whu
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Link Mauve
Or how walled gardens first expose standard protocols to get the nerd crowds to root for them, and once they obtain some critical mass stop with that.
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ThurahT
who needs/use slack anyway...
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ThurahT
matrix otoh is somewhat useful.
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ThurahT
still <3 XMPP.
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Link Mauve
ThurahT, a few millions of users, at least.
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waqas
The answer to "who needs/use slack" is a fairly large set of organizations :)
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ThurahT
inconceivable!
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Link Mauve
I’ve had to use it for a client.
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Zash
waqas: You gon' have fun now?
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waqas
My company uses it. There's quite a bit in the UX that I wish XMPP clients had.