XSF Discussion - 2018-03-11

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  216. Ge0rG https://pidgin.im/pipermail/announce/2018-March/000020.html The libpurple changes have some RCE galore > Properlly shell escape URI's when opening them.
  217. Zash https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/pidgin
  218. Zash Hot damn
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  221. Zash Only one CVE from 2017, is that good or bad?
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  230. jonasw good argument for Moved XEP: could easily become a requirement with the EU-GDPR
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  245. Dave Cridland has broken everything today.
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  247. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
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  250. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: closed
  251. Dave Cridland Bunneh, Thanks. Yes, I have broken *everything*.
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  253. Zash "closed" is the most informative error message
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  261. Maranda Maranda: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: connection refused 🤔
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  292. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
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  295. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout
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  313. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
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  315. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: dialback authentication failed
  316. Zash Dave Cridland: Having fun?
  317. Dave Cridland Zash, Well, maybe.
  318. Dave Cridland Zash, For various reasons, I replaced the autoconf build system of libunbound with cmake, and introduced some interesting errors.
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  321. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
  322. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: dialback authentication failed
  323. Dave Cridland I think this is actually working now - remaining errors are because I've not got TLS enabled.
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  325. jonasw lovely, replace all autotools with cmake <3
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  368. Ge0rG Zash [12:26]: > Only one CVE from 2017, is that good or bad? I think this is because libpurple lost popularity, not because it lost all its bugs.
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  372. jonasw hah
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  385. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
  386. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Pong from cridland.im in 10.289 seconds
  387. Dave Cridland Ah, sweet smell of success.
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  393. Dave Cridland jonasw, Metre and all its dependencies build with cmake, now, except for OpenSSL because that has the most terrifying build system ever.
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  396. jonasw lovely
  397. jonasw are you handing that to upstream?
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  400. Dave Cridland jonasw, For libunbound? Doubtful, it's nothing like done yet. Just enough to build on Linux for now. I'm gradually working on Windows.
  401. Dave Cridland jonasw, But git@github.com:dwd/unbound has it, anyway. "Patches welcome" - especially for the Windows support, actually.
  402. jonasw hm ok
  403. Dave Cridland jonasw, Don't get me wrong - *eventually* I'd like to get it into upstream. But it's a long way to go yet - unbound's flexibility with autoconf is pretty high - although it does things like check for fork(), but fails dead at runtime if it doesn't have it.
  404. jonasw :/
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  406. Neustradamus Good news Dave Cridland
  407. Dave Cridland jonasw, Oh, and that's not mentioning that unbound works with a wide variety of OpenSSL versions, *and* libsodium, *and* ...
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  411. jonasw Dave Cridland: sounds like a huge load of fun -- and good work
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  436. Dave Cridland -ping dave.cridland.net
  437. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Pong from dave.cridland.net in 1.559 seconds
  438. Dave Cridland -ping dave.cridland.net
  439. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Pong from dave.cridland.net in 0.073 seconds
  440. Dave Cridland Better.
  441. jonasw :)
  442. jonasw even more fun for doing that on a live service, right?
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  445. Dave Cridland jonasw, Yeah. cridland.im is a domain I use for running arbitrary servers on for testing. But since the very basic tests worked on Metre, I deployed it on prod a little optimistically...
  446. Dave Cridland jonasw, I wasn't expecting unbound to completely fail. :-)
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  448. jonasw :D
  449. Dave Cridland Weird, though, that so many of my contacts are still using a StartSSL certificate.
  450. Dave Cridland (Metre rejects all of them since the CRLDP is down now)
  451. jonasw crldp?
  452. Neustradamus Little question: A friend request me news about XEP Diff tool, any news about it?
  453. jonasw Neustradamus: no
  454. Neustradamus :/
  455. Dave Cridland jonasw, Certificate Revocation List Distribution Point. And amazingly, some of StartSSL's still seem to be up.
  456. jonasw we either need an external service or a way to build the xeps incrementally
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  463. Dave Cridland Zash, Do you have a working TLS1.3 server around?
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  482. Alex https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/09/slack_cuts_ties_to_irc_and_xmpp/
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  485. moparisthebest Gotta get that sweet sweet vendor lock-in
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  493. Ge0rG If only we had some alternative to offer.
  494. moparisthebest Most accurate comment from there:
  495. moparisthebest Hey, Facebook Messenger also used XMPP once... But when users are the product, you don't want anyone to access "your" users without paying your toll.
  496. moparisthebest That's basically what it boils down to
  497. Ge0rG moparisthebest: on slack you actually pay for using it, and it's very expensive
  498. Ge0rG moparisthebest: maybe the issue was that you could create remote backups easily by parking a client in there, to circumvent the free account limit
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  504. waqas Ge0rG: The "very expensive" part doesn't apply to actual companies. Slack is one of the cheaper services.
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  507. Ge0rG waqas: all the companies that I've seen using slack were on the free tier because it was too expensive
  508. Ge0rG waqas: it's something like one third of an Office 365 subscription, and it only has chat
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  511. waqas Here's from my company's slack account's billing page that I pay for: "Your workspace is on the Standard plan, paying Monthly. Your plan will renew on April 9, 2018 for $174.20. $160 for 20 users $14.20 sales tax"
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  513. waqas And I think the average spend for a tech company is ~$10k/month/employee around these parts.
  514. waqas I simply can't see the slack bill as being expensive. See what I mean?
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  518. waqas We probably subscribe to 10-20 services in that category (slack, github, jira, etc), and all that combined comes out to probably >1% of total company spend.
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  526. waqas So I can absolutely understand that there are companies out there who'd consider Slack's expense burdensome, but most companies in the US tech sector probably would not.
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  532. Alex agree with waqas
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  535. Dave Cridland Same. There's ways to compete with Slack, but cost isn't it.
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  538. Alex Ge0rG: we have all the XEPs to compete. but we do not have any good modern client ;-)
  539. Alex Desktop clients I refer to
  540. waqas That's what it really boils down to. Almost nobody cares about the underlying protocol. People like slack because of the client.
  541. waqas And there's an opportunity there: the memory usage and sluggishness of their client is almost universally complained about
  542. Dave Cridland waqas, Right. And they moan about all sorts in the client, too - but the overall expeience is really positive.
  543. waqas Yep
  544. waqas Which is why despite being a Prosody author it's hard for me to push XMPP, as there's no client that can compete in Slack's niche
  545. Dave Cridland I think a tough problem we have to deal with is the integrations, though. The general "hook" concept for services heavily assumes a single service to hook into, not a federation.
  546. Dave Cridland -ping cridland.im
  547. Alex lets take a JS lib, electron and start one ;-)
  548. Bunneh Dave Cridland: Pong from cridland.im in 14.527 seconds
  549. Dave Cridland Wow. Still works.
  550. waqas -ping cridland.im
  551. Bunneh waqas: Pong from cridland.im in 0.096 seconds
  552. Dave Cridland Also, https://github.com/surevine/web-chat
  553. Dave Cridland I mean, it's a start.
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  555. Alex Dave Cridland: is there a hosted version available somewhere? d you have some screenshots?
  556. waqas I was going to ask about screenshots too
  557. waqas Slack's integrations aren't that difficult. Writing a bridge that let's an XMPP server expose Slack's webhook/API system isn't that hard, followed by evangelism to popular integration authors for support for custom API end-points.
  558. Dave Cridland Jonny, who wrote it, said that "in the absence of budget available for this project to perform detailed user interviews, we elected to take design cues from a well-known IM service".
  559. Dave Cridland In other words, he copied Slack, mostly.
  560. waqas That's compelling :)
  561. Alex thats a great start dave ;-)
  562. Dave Cridland But it's React+Redux+stanza.io, so it's a good base whatever.
  563. Dave Cridland But it *only* does MUC, for now (well, and FDP and a weird snippets thing I really need to document).
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  580. Alex looks like a reference is missing: ./~/react-toastify/lib/ToastContainer.js Module not found: Can't resolve 'glamor' in 'C:\Users\Alex\Downloads\web-chat-master\node_modules\react-toastify\lib'
  581. Alex after npm install glamor it starts up
  582. Dave Cridland Oh. That's odd. I'll see if I can get it running locally, but I believe it works.
  583. Alex after installing this module it seems to work
  584. Alex have to figure out where to set the server
  585. Dave Cridland config.js
  586. Alex I assume this modile is missing in package.json
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  588. waqas Alex: Screenshots and review please, when you can ;)
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  599. Alex waqas: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pgluxp1gy28iynv/acreen1.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/59yibqys5ax2hee/screen2.png?dl=0
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  602. Alex probably becuase no histor is there. But looks pretty good
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