XSF Discussion - 2018-03-11

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  216. Ge0rG

    https://pidgin.im/pipermail/announce/2018-March/000020.html The libpurple changes have some RCE galore > Properlly shell escape URI's when opening them.

  217. Zash


  218. Zash

    Hot damn

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  221. Zash

    Only one CVE from 2017, is that good or bad?

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  230. jonasw

    good argument for Moved XEP: could easily become a requirement with the EU-GDPR

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  245. Dave Cridland has broken everything today.

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  247. Dave Cridland

    -ping cridland.im

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  250. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: closed

  251. Dave Cridland

    Bunneh, Thanks. Yes, I have broken *everything*.

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  253. Zash

    "closed" is the most informative error message

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  261. Maranda

    Maranda: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: connection refused 🤔

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    -ping cridland.im

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  295. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: connection-timeout

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  313. Dave Cridland

    -ping cridland.im

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  315. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: dialback authentication failed

  316. Zash

    Dave Cridland: Having fun?

  317. Dave Cridland

    Zash, Well, maybe.

  318. Dave Cridland

    Zash, For various reasons, I replaced the autoconf build system of libunbound with cmake, and introduced some interesting errors.

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  321. Dave Cridland

    -ping cridland.im

  322. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: dialback authentication failed

  323. Dave Cridland

    I think this is actually working now - remaining errors are because I've not got TLS enabled.

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  325. jonasw

    lovely, replace all autotools with cmake <3

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  368. Ge0rG

    Zash [12:26]: > Only one CVE from 2017, is that good or bad? I think this is because libpurple lost popularity, not because it lost all its bugs.

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  372. jonasw


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  385. Dave Cridland

    -ping cridland.im

  386. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Pong from cridland.im in 10.289 seconds

  387. Dave Cridland

    Ah, sweet smell of success.

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  393. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Metre and all its dependencies build with cmake, now, except for OpenSSL because that has the most terrifying build system ever.

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  396. jonasw


  397. jonasw

    are you handing that to upstream?

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  400. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, For libunbound? Doubtful, it's nothing like done yet. Just enough to build on Linux for now. I'm gradually working on Windows.

  401. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, But git@github.com:dwd/unbound has it, anyway. "Patches welcome" - especially for the Windows support, actually.

  402. jonasw

    hm ok

  403. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Don't get me wrong - *eventually* I'd like to get it into upstream. But it's a long way to go yet - unbound's flexibility with autoconf is pretty high - although it does things like check for fork(), but fails dead at runtime if it doesn't have it.

  404. jonasw


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  406. Neustradamus

    Good news Dave Cridland

  407. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Oh, and that's not mentioning that unbound works with a wide variety of OpenSSL versions, *and* libsodium, *and* ...

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  411. jonasw

    Dave Cridland: sounds like a huge load of fun -- and good work

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    -ping dave.cridland.net

  437. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Pong from dave.cridland.net in 1.559 seconds

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    -ping dave.cridland.net

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    Dave Cridland: Pong from dave.cridland.net in 0.073 seconds

  440. Dave Cridland


  441. jonasw


  442. jonasw

    even more fun for doing that on a live service, right?

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  445. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Yeah. cridland.im is a domain I use for running arbitrary servers on for testing. But since the very basic tests worked on Metre, I deployed it on prod a little optimistically...

  446. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, I wasn't expecting unbound to completely fail. :-)

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  448. jonasw


  449. Dave Cridland

    Weird, though, that so many of my contacts are still using a StartSSL certificate.

  450. Dave Cridland

    (Metre rejects all of them since the CRLDP is down now)

  451. jonasw


  452. Neustradamus

    Little question: A friend request me news about XEP Diff tool, any news about it?

  453. jonasw

    Neustradamus: no

  454. Neustradamus


  455. Dave Cridland

    jonasw, Certificate Revocation List Distribution Point. And amazingly, some of StartSSL's still seem to be up.

  456. jonasw

    we either need an external service or a way to build the xeps incrementally

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  463. Dave Cridland

    Zash, Do you have a working TLS1.3 server around?

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  482. Alex


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  485. moparisthebest

    Gotta get that sweet sweet vendor lock-in

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  493. Ge0rG

    If only we had some alternative to offer.

  494. moparisthebest

    Most accurate comment from there:

  495. moparisthebest

    Hey, Facebook Messenger also used XMPP once... But when users are the product, you don't want anyone to access "your" users without paying your toll.

  496. moparisthebest

    That's basically what it boils down to

  497. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: on slack you actually pay for using it, and it's very expensive

  498. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: maybe the issue was that you could create remote backups easily by parking a client in there, to circumvent the free account limit

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  504. waqas

    Ge0rG: The "very expensive" part doesn't apply to actual companies. Slack is one of the cheaper services.

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  507. Ge0rG

    waqas: all the companies that I've seen using slack were on the free tier because it was too expensive

  508. Ge0rG

    waqas: it's something like one third of an Office 365 subscription, and it only has chat

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  511. waqas

    Here's from my company's slack account's billing page that I pay for: "Your workspace is on the Standard plan, paying Monthly. Your plan will renew on April 9, 2018 for $174.20. $160 for 20 users $14.20 sales tax"

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  513. waqas

    And I think the average spend for a tech company is ~$10k/month/employee around these parts.

  514. waqas

    I simply can't see the slack bill as being expensive. See what I mean?

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  518. waqas

    We probably subscribe to 10-20 services in that category (slack, github, jira, etc), and all that combined comes out to probably >1% of total company spend.

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  526. waqas

    So I can absolutely understand that there are companies out there who'd consider Slack's expense burdensome, but most companies in the US tech sector probably would not.

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  532. Alex

    agree with waqas

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  535. Dave Cridland

    Same. There's ways to compete with Slack, but cost isn't it.

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  538. Alex

    Ge0rG: we have all the XEPs to compete. but we do not have any good modern client ;-)

  539. Alex

    Desktop clients I refer to

  540. waqas

    That's what it really boils down to. Almost nobody cares about the underlying protocol. People like slack because of the client.

  541. waqas

    And there's an opportunity there: the memory usage and sluggishness of their client is almost universally complained about

  542. Dave Cridland

    waqas, Right. And they moan about all sorts in the client, too - but the overall expeience is really positive.

  543. waqas


  544. waqas

    Which is why despite being a Prosody author it's hard for me to push XMPP, as there's no client that can compete in Slack's niche

  545. Dave Cridland

    I think a tough problem we have to deal with is the integrations, though. The general "hook" concept for services heavily assumes a single service to hook into, not a federation.

  546. Dave Cridland

    -ping cridland.im

  547. Alex

    lets take a JS lib, electron and start one ;-)

  548. Bunneh

    Dave Cridland: Pong from cridland.im in 14.527 seconds

  549. Dave Cridland

    Wow. Still works.

  550. waqas

    -ping cridland.im

  551. Bunneh

    waqas: Pong from cridland.im in 0.096 seconds

  552. Dave Cridland

    Also, https://github.com/surevine/web-chat

  553. Dave Cridland

    I mean, it's a start.

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  555. Alex

    Dave Cridland: is there a hosted version available somewhere? d you have some screenshots?

  556. waqas

    I was going to ask about screenshots too

  557. waqas

    Slack's integrations aren't that difficult. Writing a bridge that let's an XMPP server expose Slack's webhook/API system isn't that hard, followed by evangelism to popular integration authors for support for custom API end-points.

  558. Dave Cridland

    Jonny, who wrote it, said that "in the absence of budget available for this project to perform detailed user interviews, we elected to take design cues from a well-known IM service".

  559. Dave Cridland

    In other words, he copied Slack, mostly.

  560. waqas

    That's compelling :)

  561. Alex

    thats a great start dave ;-)

  562. Dave Cridland

    But it's React+Redux+stanza.io, so it's a good base whatever.

  563. Dave Cridland

    But it *only* does MUC, for now (well, and FDP and a weird snippets thing I really need to document).

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  580. Alex

    looks like a reference is missing: ./~/react-toastify/lib/ToastContainer.js Module not found: Can't resolve 'glamor' in 'C:\Users\Alex\Downloads\web-chat-master\node_modules\react-toastify\lib'

  581. Alex

    after npm install glamor it starts up

  582. Dave Cridland

    Oh. That's odd. I'll see if I can get it running locally, but I believe it works.

  583. Alex

    after installing this module it seems to work

  584. Alex

    have to figure out where to set the server

  585. Dave Cridland


  586. Alex

    I assume this modile is missing in package.json

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  588. waqas

    Alex: Screenshots and review please, when you can ;)

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  599. Alex

    waqas: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pgluxp1gy28iynv/acreen1.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/59yibqys5ax2hee/screen2.png?dl=0

  600. Alex

    does not display messages for some reason

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  602. Alex

    probably becuase no histor is there. But looks pretty good

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