XSF Discussion - 2018-03-15

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  173. jonasw

    after reading https://gultsch.de/converse_bookmarks.html, I think we should adapt the security considerations of XEP-0223 to include a strong hint that discovering support is vital for security

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  183. Ge0rG

    jonasw: that or doing the probing limbo dance

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  186. jonasw

    probing limbo?

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  188. Ge0rG

    Where you publish with options set and then query what the server did out of that

  189. Ge0rG


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  191. jonasw

    and then your data is already public?

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  205. Zash

    Trying with non-sensitive data first?

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  207. jonasw

    not convinced

  208. jonasw

    discovering the feature seems more reasonable to me

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  211. Zash

    Of course.

  212. Zash

    Are the required features recent additions or what's the issue here?

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  214. Zash

    (assume I've lost all memory)

  215. jonasw

    no, people just apparently don’t check

  216. jonasw

    no, people just apparently don’t check if the service actually supports publish-options

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  221. Zash

    I approve of big angry warning in 223

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  226. Ge0rG

    Zash: PR or didn't happen

  227. jonasw

    Ge0rG, #608

  228. jonasw


  229. jonasw


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  234. flow

    jonasw, +1

  235. jonasw

    I was slightly shocked that a XEP which puts private data in pubsub boldly claimed that there were no security considerations above those in '60 and '163. I haven’t checked if "everything’s gonna be public" has been mentioned there, but not mentioning it in '223 anyways feels like negligent

  236. Ge0rG

    jonasw: 👍 Also I remember documentation somewhere on how to publish to PEP in a secure way, but probably it predated the latest publish-options

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  238. jonasw

    Ge0rG, daniel has some on his site

  239. Ge0rG

    Yeah, that

  240. jonasw

    this one probably: https://gist.github.com/iNPUTmice/7c52785ed69787516abb60e31703dbd2

  241. Ge0rG

    I was looking into crawling all my contacts' PEP for their bookmarks for a while, but I never was sufficiently good at scripting xmpp

  242. daniel

    Ge0rG, just subscribe to the node

  243. jonasw

    does that give you a push when you come online?

  244. daniel

    yes that'll push you all your contacts bookmarks

  245. jonasw


  246. jonasw

    lemme try that

  247. daniel

    aehm +notify i mean

  248. jonasw


  249. Ge0rG

    daniel: you mentioned that, yes. But it still requires code to subscribe and to process events

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  251. jonasw


  252. jonasw

    lemme aioxmpp that for you

  253. Ge0rG

    If somebody writes a script that...

  254. Ge0rG

    jonasw: yes please

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  257. Zash

    `storage:bookmarks+notify` ?

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  260. Ge0rG

    Are there any other use cases of private PEP?

  261. daniel

    i justed added that to Conversations very quickly. that was like two lines of code

  262. daniel

    when i tested that last month

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  265. Zash

    Just tried using clix. Boring, got nothing but disco#info queries at me.

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  267. daniel

    yeah it's not very widespread it seems. nobody uses converse.js (to publish! bookmarks) and in poezio it's just a rare corner case

  268. Zash

    What's `urn:xmpp:inbox`

  269. jonasw

    Ge0rG, aioxmpp git pull && cd examples && python3 listen_pep.py --namespace storage:bookmarks

  270. jonasw

    stop it with Ctrl+C

  271. jonasw

    I tested it with urn:xmpp:avatar:metadata

  272. Zash

    Uh, taking a thing that's meant for *broadcasting public data* and using it for storing private data?

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  276. jonasw

    it revealed the depressing amount of people using xep-0084

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  278. Zash

    About a quarter of my contacts, it seems

  279. daniel

    note that you wont receive pep notifications for offline contacts on ejabberd servers

  280. daniel

    that might distort what ever you are 'testing'

  281. Zash

    jonasw: Nice caps2 you got there

  282. jonasw


  283. jonasw

    the resource tells you why

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  286. Ge0rG

    jonasw: ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'aioxmpp' 😞

  287. Zash

    jonasw: Does it offer like an XML console/REPL hybrid thing? (like `clix raw`)

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  290. Zash

    If not, make one, it's the best thing since sliced bread

  291. jonasw

    Ge0rG, enter our jabbercat virtualenv

  292. jonasw

    Ge0rG, enter your jabbercat virtualenv

  293. Ge0rG

    Oh, yes.

  294. jonasw

    Zash, yeah, it’s tricky to do that with asyncio though

  295. jonasw

    like, really tricky

  296. jonasw

    readline + asyncio doesn’t mix

  297. Zash

    Can't pretend that stdin is a socket somehow?

  298. jonasw

    that’s not the main problem

  299. jonasw

    writing things on stdout asynchronously and expecting readline or whatever’s handling your input to cope by redrawing is "nope"

  300. jonasw

    I messed with that for some time and then gave up

  301. jonasw

    closest thing I can do is something based on urwid (pure-python ncurses-like thing)

  302. jonasw

    not to mention that doing actual raw XML is super-hard with aioxmpp

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  305. Zash

    clix doesn't use readline, just the bare io lib for reading stdin, and some clever lies told to the network server

  306. Ge0rG

    jonasw: so it's idling there after I entered my password. Does that mean everybody I know is safe?

  307. jonasw

    Ge0rG, yeah

  308. jonasw

    modulo what daniel said

  309. Zash

    I usually wrap it in rlwrap. Not that it gets happy about showing new stanzas while you are typing something...

  310. Ge0rG

    ah, urn:xmpp:avatar:metadata happens to return a bunch of things.

  311. jonasw

    Zash, yeah, that can probably be done easily, but that goes against my perfectionism ;-)

  312. Ge0rG

    I demand a zemlyanka frontend.

  313. jonasw

    a what

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  315. Ge0rG

    that used to be a TUI binding for one of the large X11 toolkits. GTK I think

  316. jonasw


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  320. Ge0rG

    I am waiting for a use case that mandates a resurrection of TurboVision

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  325. Link Mauve

    “13:27:28 Steve Kille> Ge0rG: military users like to have lots of tabs, so they can monitor many chats at once, with keyword highlighting to draw attention to things they care about. I have been told of an operator with 64 rooms displayed”, damn, I should get into this business, they’d see my poezio with 216 tabs (currently)!

  326. jonasw

    216 is a great number

  327. Link Mauve

    About half of those are private discussions, the rest are MUCs.

  328. Zash

    Link Mauve: You are promoted to General. Report to the president at once. ;)

  329. Seve/SouL


  330. Link Mauve

    Zash, it’s with the very concept of war that I have an issue, so sadly I can’t make use of my great poezio skills that way.

  331. jonasw

    Link Mauve, sabotage them from the inside!

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  353. rion just implemented optional session in Psi.

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  590. Martin

    Any Boardies about?

  591. MattJ waves

  592. Martin

    Hi MattJ

  593. MattJ

    ralphm, Guus

  594. ralphm

    I'm here, but also in a telco

  595. ralphm

    Can somebody else take the lead for this meeting?

  596. Martin

    I can

  597. MattJ

    Thanks Martin

  598. Ge0rG has left

  599. Martin

    1. Roll Call:

  600. Martin

    Me, MattJ, and ralphm in his peripheral vision

  601. Martin

    2. Minutes.

  602. Martin

    Any volunteers?

  603. MattJ

    I'd rather not volunteer, as I already have outstanding commitments...

  604. Guus

    I'm half here

  605. jonasw

    I would, but I can’t promise that I don’t have to disappear in the next 30 minutes, sorry.

  606. Martin

    OK, I'll try and scribe after the fact

  607. Martin

    3. Topics for decisions

  608. Martin

    3.1 Board Priorities

  609. Martin

    From last week's minutes, seems like there's a meeting that needs arranging

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  611. Martin

    Anyone know where that's at?

  612. Guus

    Nyco has asked me for availablity a couple of times

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  614. Guus

    Don't know the current state.

  615. Martin

    OK, let's kick it along the road to next week

  616. Guus

    At some point, I think we should give up on this.

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  620. Guus

    Sooner rather than later.

  621. MattJ


  622. Martin

    Let's give it another week, then see where we are

  623. Guus


  624. Martin

    3.2 Bus factor / bank account

  625. Guus

    I failed to ping Peter

  626. Guus

    Still waiting on feedback from the bank, AFAIK

  627. Martin


  628. Martin

    4. Commitment list

  629. Martin

    4.1 Board priority meeting: dealt with above

  630. Martin

    4.2 Membership survey, MattJ?

  631. MattJ

    Not finished, but I may send a draft for feedback to the board list in the next day or two

  632. Martin


  633. Martin

    4.3 Prepare discussion points regarding the Fundraising and Financing discussion.

  634. Martin


  635. Guus

    I did not plan to be here today (I sent apologies) and did not prepare for that.

  636. Martin

    OK, no problem

  637. Guus

    Next week

  638. Martin

    5. Items for discussion

  639. Martin

    5.1 Fundraising & finance

  640. Martin

    I'm guessing we should postpone this topic given the above?

  641. MattJ


  642. Guus


  643. Martin

    6. AOBs

  644. Martin


  645. MattJ

    None here

  646. Guus

    Not from me

  647. Guus has left

  648. Martin


  649. Andrew Nenakhov has left

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  651. Martin

    6. Date & time of next? Everyone OK with +1W, 14:30 UK time? (I know some DSTs kcik in)

  652. MattJ

    wfm, I think everyone is going to switch at the same time anyway

  653. Guus

    It's 14:30 always, right?

  654. Martin

    Guus: It is indeed

  655. jubalh has joined

  656. Guus


  657. Martin

    Excellent, then I think we're all done. Thanks all!

  658. MattJ

    Thanks Martin :)

  659. Guus


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  754. Maranda

    . . .

  755. Maranda

    . .

  756. Maranda


  757. Maranda has left

  758. Maranda

    Pidgin still uses legacy sessions? Oh rly?

  759. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  760. Zash

    Everything uses them

  761. Dave Cridland has left

  762. Guus has left

  763. Zash

    Some servers required it, and there wasn't any way to know that it was optional.

  764. Guus has left

  765. Maranda eyes Neustradamus.

  766. Zash

    So it must be used if offered.

  767. Zash

    Or you risk not being able to login at all

  768. Maranda

    And what if not offered?

  769. jonasw

    yeah, learnt that the hard way with aioxmpp

  770. Maranda

    Pidgin breaks? yay.

  771. Zash

    If not offered then ???

  772. Holger

    Now there is an <optional/> tag right ...

  773. Zash

    Probably some clients will do it anyways because reasons, and shoot themselves right in the connection.

  774. Maranda

    if not offered then pidgin = "borked" end

  775. Guus has left

  776. Maranda


  777. jonasw

    classic pidgin

  778. Maranda

    Neustradamus, what you made me do :P

  779. Zash

    Holger: In an expired draft...

  780. jere has joined

  781. Holger

    Zash: Well, yeah.

  782. Zash

    Prosody does add optional tho.

  783. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  784. Maranda

    Holger, I (re-)added the optional and changed the default to not offer legacy sessions by default and guess what... An e-mail this morning stating someone using Pidgin can't login.

  785. Maranda


  786. Zash

    Heh, https://hg.prosody.im/trunk/rev/0bbbc9042361

  787. moparisthebest

    actually that might be good

  788. Zash

    Praise waqas

  789. Zash

    That might predate the draft

  790. moparisthebest

    if they can't login with pidgin, then it's "pidgin sucks", if they login with pidgin successfully then it's "xmpp sucks"

  791. Zash

    moparisthebest: whoever touched it last gets the blame

  792. Dave Cridland has left

  793. Holger

    moparisthebest: I think XMPP sucks if we break interop for no good reason.

  794. Zash

    First rule of Internet protocols: It has to work.

  795. moparisthebest

    that's if you define pidgin's xmpp implementation as 'working otherwise'

  796. la|r|ma has joined

  797. Holger

    Depending on the use case it works just fine of course.

  798. moparisthebest

    for the use case of work like AIM in 1999 sure

  799. Holger

    That's the #1 strength of XMPP. We can add a ton of modern stuff without breaking Pidgin.

  800. Holger

    moparisthebest: Yes for many of my co-workers that use case hasn't changed.

  801. moparisthebest

    I'm not so sure, whenever someone says 'XMPP Sucks' if you ask enough questions it usually boils down to 'Pidgin Sucks'

  802. Guus has left

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  804. Holger

    Saying it's good to break stuff for them because Pidgin doesn't fit your use cases is going for Matrix.

  805. Zash

    > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Common saying about things that appear to work, but are actually horribly broken.

  806. Holger

    If I wouldn't care about compat I'd ditch XMPP and start from scratch.

  807. Holger

    moparisthebest: I'm sure he'll love XMPP if you break Pidgin's ability to initiate a session altogether.

  808. Zash

    Maybe even Pidgin with GTalk

  809. Guus has left

  810. moparisthebest

    I'm just saying virtually every time I've had a discussion with someone that said xmpp sucks, they meant pidgin connected to gmail sucks

  811. jere has joined

  812. moparisthebest

    luckily half of that is gone now

  813. Zash

    Is it really tho?

  814. moparisthebest

    I thought it was?

  815. Zash

    Federation is dead

  816. jjrh

    I think the solution for pidgin is either: A) Fix pidgin's xmpp support or B) convince distributions to ship something else by default.

  817. Holger

    moparisthebest: I do not doubt that. The thing I don't understand is how you come to the conclusion that breaking Pidgin helps with that problem.

  818. Zash

    jjrh: Too attractive to ship one thing, get all the protocols

  819. jjrh

    Zash, I'd be interested in how many people actually use pidgin for much other than XMPP and possibly IRC.

  820. moparisthebest

    pidgin user's should be used to stuff breaking, lync support always broke when I used pidgin for it

  821. moparisthebest

    of course official lync client isn't much better...

  822. Zash

    moparisthebest: Have you tried suggesting alternative clients when you reach the conclution that pidgin is the problem? Assuming they understand or admit it themselves?

  823. Guus has left

  824. moparisthebest

    yea, every one I've convinced to try Conversations really likes it

  825. jjrh

    I mean ummm 5 or so years ago pidgin was okay. You could connect to a bunch of chat systems with it. These days everything has broken their support. I migrated to bitlbee for a while then gave up and just open browser tabs

  826. Zash

    moparisthebest: because that's probably one of the times they'd be most receptive to it

  827. Zash

    it sure doesn't work to say something like "your thing sucsk, try mine"

  828. Holger

    Even less so if your thing was a desktop client and mine runs on Android.

  829. Dave Cridland has left

  830. jjrh

    Pidgin dev is pretty dead by the looks of things. :P

  831. Holger


  832. jjrh

    Last news update was 2016

  833. Holger

    So what? It's not like I recommend Pidgin to anyone, ever. It's just that I don't fancy breaking Pidgin for no good reason, that's all.

  834. Holger

    (And Pidgin just being an example, of course.)

  835. rion has left

  836. moparisthebest

    not for no good reason, but you also wouldn't want to hold everything else back just for pidgin compat

  837. moparisthebest

    it's a balance I guess

  838. Zash

    Last commit seems to be less than a month ago tho

  839. jjrh

    No I agree - breaking a client isn't a good idea. My point is more the reason pidgin is used - even if it's ONLY for xmpp - is because it's installed by default on the majority of popular distributions.

  840. Holger

    moparisthebest: This was about offering <session/> (as a no-op). This doesn't hold back anything.

  841. Dave Cridland has joined

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  844. Zash

    It can't really be removed at this point, but adding <optional> allows it to be skipped by aware clients

  845. jjrh has left

  846. Holger

    Yes I'm all for <optional/> (and ejabberd adds it as well).

  847. Guus has left

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  850. Holger

    Without <optional/> it does hold back saving that round trip of course.

  851. marmistrz has joined

  852. Maranda

    Holger I don't think Pidgin cares about optional.

  853. Maranda


  854. Guus has left

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  856. Zash

    Clients that don't know about <optional> pay the round trip price.

  857. jjrh has left

  858. Holger

    Maranda: Of course not.

  859. Maranda

    And it will say "error initializing session" if it's not offered as well lol.

  860. Holger

    Maranda: Yes. Optional is the way to allow modern clients to save the round trip without breaking old ones.

  861. Holger

    (Am I not stating the obvious?)

  862. Maranda

    I'm not sure if I should change the default of legacy session offering back to true.

  863. Holger

    Why not?

  864. Maranda

    I suppose so.

  865. Maranda

    Holger, I didn't consider Pidgin would break, I should have probably.

  866. Holger

    Well I'm obviously not complaining about an oversight, just about an "it's fine to break old clients" attitude.

  867. SaltyBones has left

  868. Maranda

    Holger, oh I didn't want to break anything I didn't expect it to break :P

  869. Guus has left

  870. Zash

    Can we fight over dialback instead?

  871. Guus has left

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  875. fippo

    zash: you can fight with me!

  876. Holger

    Zash: It should die who cares about old servers!!

  877. Zash

    Kill it with fire!

  878. Martin has left

  879. Zash

    Or at least get xep-0178 to match whatever current consensus is

  880. vanitasvitae has left

  881. Holger

    Yeah 0178 should be fixed.

  882. Guus has left

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  884. Holger

    Next issue we ran into with Dialback is 0198 feature negotiation.

  885. rion has joined

  886. Zash

    Because it's not advertised on unauthenticated connections? And there's no advertising at all after authentication-by-dialback

  887. Dave Cridland has left

  888. Holger

    0198 says "negotiate when authenticated" Dialback says "go go go when authenticated!".

  889. Holger

    Zash: Right.

  890. Zash

    Which means it has to be advertised before auth

  891. Zash

    Or limited to connections with SASL EXTERNAL

  892. Zash

    I wonder if BIDI didn't have some similar issue

  893. Zash

    In at least one of those cases I just went with EXTERNAL-only

  894. Holger

    Yeah I think I'm going for limiting it to SASL EXTERNAL. So I'm back to "burn Dialback with fire".

  895. Maranda

    well yes you can't use db on the same stream for bidi.

  896. Maranda

    You need to open another.

  897. Guus has left

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  901. fippo

    holger: mind you, in the past when those specs were written the percentage of servers that had usable certificates was single-digit

  902. Holger

    fippo: Yes, sure :-)

  903. Holger

    Some things do improve.

  904. Maranda

    Holger, or it's even worse maybe....

  905. Maranda

    no it's not.

  906. Holger

    (Then again, if the attacker can mess with DNS to circumvent Dialback he can also get a Let's Encrypt cert, no?)

  907. rion has left

  908. fippo

    holger: dialback is online. getting a certificate is an offline attack.

  909. Zash

    Did anyone ever formalise "samecert"?

  910. fippo

    zash: dwd and me talked about it. i might even have implemented it but not sure if i ever pushed it somewhere

  911. SaltyBones has joined

  912. Maranda

    <<Pidgin client working with Lightwitch again (starting ~11:30am CT). Thanks! >>

  913. Maranda


  914. Maranda rolls eyes.

  915. Guus has left

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  918. Maranda

    well if you have BIDI and dialback you need to support dialback errors because the BIDI XEP mandates so anyways

  919. Zash

    fippo: I might have done a plugin with half of it (in one direction if there's already an open session in the other)

  920. jere has joined

  921. Zash

    and d-w-d

  922. Maranda

    so if you don't... well I'm not sure what you need to do since db support is advertised right on the stream header yay.

  923. Maranda

    So pretty

  924. Maranda just supports db errors, and opens another stream to do dialback if it's a BIDI stream.

  925. Maranda


  926. moparisthebest

    if a server only supported the latest state of the art of everything, and no legacy, it probably would interop just fine with all somewhat recently updated servers right?

  927. rion has joined

  928. Maranda

    a server?

  929. Zash

    Disable dialback and see what happens

  930. Maranda


  931. Maranda

    although most servers now do SASL external since alle the free certificateness.

  932. moparisthebest

    I guess what I'm asking is, if you were writing a server from scratch today, would you support dialback?

  933. moparisthebest

    I'm thinking you wouldn't have to

  934. Maranda


  935. Maranda

    moparisthebest, you need it if SASL external fails for whatever reason.

  936. Zash

    Security related failure, let's proceed anyways!

  937. moparisthebest

    well or you just, fail

  938. SaltyBones has left

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  940. Maranda

    Zash, *security* le like self-signed certificate? CA error? Let me think. Hmm yes let's continue anyways.

  941. moparisthebest

    how many servers today don't have valid CA signed certs that you actually want to communicate with?

  942. moparisthebest

    I would hope few to none

  943. jonasw

    could grep through xmpp.net database

  944. Zash

    moparisthebest: 1/3 according to xmpp.net/stats

  945. jonasw

    or ask holger to grep through his one on messaging.one

  946. jonasw

    oh neat

  947. moparisthebest

    sure I bet there are a couple with IBR enabled from 2005 or whatever, but you explicitly do not want those to s2s with you

  948. moparisthebest

    well I said "that you want to communicate with" :)

  949. jonasw


  950. Maranda

    because if your CA isn't included in someone's OS does it make "not valid"? Just saying trust is one thing validity another me thinks.

  951. Maranda

    because if your CA isn't included in someone's OS does it make it "not valid"? Just saying trust is one thing validity another me thinks.

  952. jonasw

    moparisthebest, probably you want to communicate with all of them, otherwise you’re like microsoft who think that blacklisting whole IP ranges is okay.

  953. moparisthebest

    there is essentially 1 CA list, and that's whatever mozilla/google uses

  954. Maranda


  955. Steve Kille has left

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  958. moparisthebest

    I'm not really sure what's going on on the reports.php page

  959. Dave Cridland has left

  960. moparisthebest

    is the trust numbers only of those servers that do TLS

  961. moparisthebest

    because you don't want to talk to any non-TLS ones anyway

  962. moparisthebest

    ha, or the 1 with the 512 bit RSA key lol

  963. Steve Kille has joined

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  966. moparisthebest

    but yea my point is there are whole classes of servers you do not want to s2s with, look at the ones using SSLv2, even SSLv3

  967. jjrh has left

  968. MattJ

    Just because someone is on a server that uses SSLv2, do I not want to communicate with them?

  969. Dave Cridland has left

  970. moparisthebest

    yes, all decent servers shouldn't communicate them so they'll fix it or move

  971. MattJ

    Yes, it has weak/no transport security, but does it automatically follow that I would never want to communicate with them? :)

  972. Maranda

    moparisthebest, I think you're confusing security with trust.

  973. Maranda

    moparisthebest, I think you're confusing security with identity trust.

  974. moparisthebest

    they are 2 different issues, but both lead me to not want to interop with that server

  975. Dave Cridland has left

  976. waqas has joined

  977. Maranda

    when dialback got dished out I think it was more about asserting and authenticating identity but that's me, and while the two things may go hand in hand someone may say.

  978. Maranda

    when dialback got dished out I think it was more about asserting and authenticating identity but that's me, and while the two things may go hand to hand someone may say.

  979. moparisthebest

    well it also allows for insecure connections, so it's a bit of a mixed bag

  980. Maranda

    Encrypted streams when Jabber was Jabber?

  981. Maranda


  982. Maranda

    or following short after?

  983. Maranda

    or even now? *eyes cisco.com*

  984. moparisthebest

    I haven't been around it that long :P

  985. marc has left

  986. moparisthebest

    and maybe that's the reason I view it like this

  987. Fabian has joined

  988. Dave Cridland has left

  989. moparisthebest

    but things that made sense then like dialback, haven't made sense now for a long time, and I see no reason to support legacy code to interop with a server last updated in 2005

  990. Zash

    moparisthebest: lucrative customer wants to talk to you. they use an ancient jabberd release from the 1800s and support only SSL 3. what do you do?

  991. moparisthebest

    I guess you could say "I'll talk to you only if we upgrade your server" :P

  992. Dave Cridland has left

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  995. moparisthebest

    I once dropped a contracting side job because they wouldn't drop windows XP

  996. Maranda

    moparisthebest, to talk with cisco.com I need dialback, to talk with M-Link I often need dialback because it complains the purpose of my certificate is wrong I suppose (YAY).

  997. Zash

    ah yes, LE certs aren't technically/strictly valid for XMPP s2s or somesuch

  998. moparisthebest

    seems like a lot of work to talk to legacy systems that need to burn

  999. Dave Cridland has left

  1000. Holger

    Zash: I think they are. Or at least they don't miss that bit that the StartSSL certs missed.

  1001. rion has left

  1002. Zash

    Holger: The bit saying "This is ok as client certificate"?

  1003. rion has joined

  1004. Holger


  1005. Holger

    Web Client Whatever Something.

  1006. Zash

    TLS Web Client Authentication

  1007. Dave Cridland has left

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  1015. moparisthebest

    hmm does xmpp.net not say what IP it's connecting to? or at least v4 vs v6 ?

  1016. Ge0rG has left

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  1038. jonasw

    moparisthebest, I think it can only do v4

  1039. jonasw

    due to deployment fubar

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  1047. moparisthebest

    ah ok, would be nice eventually to test both like http://ssllabs.com/ does for https

  1048. jubalh has joined

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  1050. Zash

    Is anyone aware of any remaining Group Chat 1.0 clients?

  1051. Zash

    Or is can we get rid of that without breaking anything

  1052. Ge0rG

    Zash: didn't you plan to write something to log GC1 joins?

  1053. Dave Cridland has left

  1054. Ge0rG

    Maybe combined with version-querying the respective client, so we can check if it's just presence desync

  1055. Dave Cridland has left

  1056. Ge0rG

    I volunteer to run that code on yax.im for a week, and then to make a PR against 0045.

  1057. Ge0rG

    [I feel lucky]

  1058. Zash

    Well I did add some logging already.

  1059. Ge0rG

    Is it already deployed on my server? :>

  1060. Zash

    Probably not

  1061. Guus has left

  1062. Guus has left

  1063. Ge0rG

    Can I deploy it without restarting the server?

  1064. Zash

    Not running trunk with debug logging enabled right?

  1065. jjrh has left

  1066. Ge0rG

    Zash: [version yax.im]

  1067. Ge0rG

    Zash: {version yax.im}

  1068. Zash

    sans bot

  1069. Bunneh

    Zash: yax.im is running Prosody version 0.10 nightly build 460 (2018-02-03, 980d2daf3ed4) on Linux

  1070. Dave Cridland has left

  1071. Ge0rG

    quoting. It drives me crazy.

  1072. Ge0rG has left

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  1077. Zash

    Hm, I thought I had that code excracted out already

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  1099. Zash

    Ge0rG: Link Mauve did report some numbers that I didn't write down, unscientific as I am.

  1100. Zash

    Or did I dream that?

  1101. Link Mauve

    Wait, let me read the backlog.

  1102. Ge0rG

    Zash: I remember that as well.

  1103. Ge0rG

    I think the number of GC1 clients reported was 0

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  1114. Link Mauve

    Ah right, over a period of one week (our debug log retention time) we saw 47 GC1.0 joins, zero of which from a client which didn’t support MUC.

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  1116. Link Mauve

    (And only from two bare JIDs in total, but multiple times.)

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  1177. Ge0rG

    I'd like to replicate the measurement on my server

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  1316. Neustradamus

    https://xmpp.org/rfcs/ <-- a lot of RFCs are missing no?

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  1322. Guus

    which ones?

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  1333. Neustradamus

    RFC 8284 RFC 8266 RFC 8048 RFC 7700 RFC 7702 RFC 7712 RFC 7622 RFC 7590 RFC 7572 RFC 7573 RFC 7395 RFC 7340 RFC 7248 RFC 7247 RFC 7259 RFC 7165 RFC 7081 RFC 5437 RFC 4979

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  1335. Neustradamus

    -> RFC 7395 (WebSocket)

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  1344. Guus

    kindly add a PR?

  1345. Neustradamus

    I do not know ^^

  1346. Neustradamus

    I have already notified too the missing XMPP logo with XMPP text

  1347. Neustradamus

    Maybe some messages are lost in the XMPP network