XSF Discussion - 2018-03-16

  1. Dave Cridland has left

  2. Dave Cridland has left

  3. Ge0rG has left

  4. Dave Cridland has left

  5. Dave Cridland has left

  6. Dave Cridland has joined

  7. lumi has joined

  8. Guus has left

  9. lskdjf has left

  10. Ge0rG has left

  11. Guus has left

  12. Dave Cridland has left

  13. Dave Cridland has left

  14. Ge0rG has left

  15. blabla has left

  16. Guus has left

  17. Guus has left

  18. Guus has left

  19. Ge0rG has left

  20. Dave Cridland has left

  21. Neustradamus has left

  22. Dave Cridland has left

  23. Neustradamus has joined

  24. Guus has left

  25. Guus has left

  26. Guus has left

  27. nyco has joined

  28. Dave Cridland has left

  29. Dave Cridland has joined

  30. Dave Cridland has left

  31. Guus has left

  32. Dave Cridland has joined

  33. lskdjf has joined

  34. Ge0rG has left

  35. ralphm has left

  36. Dave Cridland has left

  37. Dave Cridland has joined

  38. Dave Cridland has left

  39. Dave Cridland has joined

  40. Guus has left

  41. Ge0rG has left

  42. Guus has left

  43. Ge0rG has left

  44. Guus has left

  45. Guus has left

  46. Guus has left

  47. Dave Cridland has left

  48. Guus has left

  49. Dave Cridland has left

  50. Guus has left

  51. Ge0rG has left

  52. Dave Cridland has left

  53. SamWhited has left

  54. la|r|ma has joined

  55. tux has left

  56. tux has joined

  57. Guus has left

  58. Ge0rG has left

  59. Guus has left

  60. Lance has joined

  61. Ge0rG has left

  62. Guus has left

  63. Guus has left

  64. Guus has left

  65. Dave Cridland has left

  66. Dave Cridland has left

  67. Ge0rG has left

  68. Guus has left

  69. Guus has left

  70. Guus has left

  71. Dave Cridland has left

  72. Lance has left

  73. Dave Cridland has left

  74. Dave Cridland has left

  75. Guus has left

  76. Ge0rG has left

  77. Guus has left

  78. Guus has left

  79. Neustradamus has left

  80. Neustradamus has joined

  81. Guus has left

  82. Guus has left

  83. Guus has left

  84. Kev has joined

  85. Dave Cridland has left

  86. Ge0rG has left

  87. la|r|ma has left

  88. Guus has left

  89. vanitasvitae has left

  90. moparisthebest has left

  91. Guus has left

  92. Ge0rG has left

  93. rion has joined

  94. Guus has left

  95. moparisthebest has joined

  96. Guus has left

  97. Guus has left

  98. Ge0rG has left

  99. Guus has left

  100. Guus has left

  101. Guus has left

  102. Dave Cridland has left

  103. Guus has left

  104. Dave Cridland has left

  105. Dave Cridland has left

  106. Ge0rG has left

  107. rion has left

  108. Dave Cridland has left

  109. rion has joined

  110. rion has left

  111. Dave Cridland has left

  112. Dave Cridland has left

  113. Guus has left

  114. Ge0rG has left

  115. lumi has joined

  116. Dave Cridland has left

  117. Ge0rG has left

  118. Guus has left

  119. rion has joined

  120. Dave Cridland has left

  121. Ge0rG has left

  122. Guus has left

  123. Guus has left

  124. Ge0rG has left

  125. Guus has left

  126. Guus has left

  127. la|r|ma has joined

  128. Guus has left

  129. efrit has joined

  130. Guus has left

  131. Guus has left

  132. Guus has left

  133. Ge0rG has left

  134. Guus has left

  135. moparisthebest has joined

  136. Ge0rG has left

  137. Guus has left

  138. Ge0rG has left

  139. Guus has left

  140. Tobias has joined

  141. Guus has left

  142. efrit has left

  143. Tobias has joined

  144. Ge0rG has left

  145. Guus has left

  146. Dave Cridland has left

  147. daniel has left

  148. Dave Cridland has left

  149. la|r|ma has joined

  150. LNJ has joined

  151. lumi has joined

  152. Guus has left

  153. Dave Cridland has left

  154. Dave Cridland has left

  155. winfried has left

  156. Dave Cridland has left

  157. lskdjf has joined

  158. Ge0rG has left

  159. goffi has joined

  160. Guus has left

  161. Tobias has joined

  162. Guus has left

  163. Guus has left

  164. Nekit has left

  165. winfried has joined

  166. Guus has left

  167. Guus has left

  168. Guus has left

  169. Ge0rG has left

  170. winfried has left

  171. Guus has left

  172. Guus has left

  173. Nekit has joined

  174. LNJ has left

  175. Ge0rG has left

  176. waqas has left

  177. winfried has left

  178. Dave Cridland has left

  179. Dave Cridland has left

  180. j.r has joined

  181. j.r has joined

  182. Dave Cridland has left

  183. lumi has joined

  184. Ge0rG has left

  185. Guus has left

  186. Dave Cridland has left

  187. moparisthebest has joined

  188. Dave Cridland has left

  189. Dave Cridland has joined

  190. Guus has left

  191. ralphm has left

  192. moparisthebest has joined

  193. Guus has left

  194. la|r|ma has joined

  195. Guus has left

  196. Guus has left

  197. j.r has joined

  198. Ge0rG has left

  199. ralphm has joined

  200. Dave Cridland has left

  201. Dave Cridland has left

  202. Guus has left

  203. lskdjf has joined

  204. Dave Cridland has left

  205. Ge0rG has left

  206. Dave Cridland has left

  207. Dave Cridland has joined

  208. winfried has joined

  209. Dave Cridland has left

  210. Dave Cridland has left

  211. Guus has left

  212. Dave Cridland has left

  213. Dave Cridland has left

  214. Guus has left

  215. Guus has left

  216. Dave Cridland has left

  217. lovetox has joined

  218. jonasw

    edhelas, goffi, care to give feedback on the current XEP-0394 discussion? Even feedback of the type "We’ll need full XHTML anyways, so do whatever you folks want" would be valuable. specifically starting at https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-March/034588.html thanks

  219. blabla has joined

  220. Guus has left

  221. Dave Cridland has left

  222. Ge0rG has left

  223. Yagiza has joined

  224. Dave Cridland has left

  225. SaltyBones has left

  226. moparisthebest has joined

  227. Fabian has joined

  228. lovetox has left

  229. Dave Cridland has left

  230. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  231. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  232. xnyhps has joined

  233. ralphm has joined

  234. moparisthebest has joined

  235. Dave Cridland has left

  236. lumi has joined

  237. daniel has joined

  238. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  239. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  240. SaltyBones has joined

  241. Dave Cridland has left

  242. Dave Cridland has left

  243. Dave Cridland has left

  244. Dave Cridland has left

  245. jubalh has joined

  246. Dave Cridland has left

  247. jubalh has left

  248. Dave Cridland has left

  249. Dave Cridland has left

  250. jubalh has joined

  251. Ge0rG has left

  252. jubalh has left

  253. Dave Cridland has left

  254. Dave Cridland has left

  255. remko has joined

  256. rion has left

  257. rion has joined

  258. Dave Cridland has left

  259. Ge0rG has left

  260. Dave Cridland has left

  261. Dave Cridland has left

  262. jubalh has joined

  263. jubalh has left

  264. Dave Cridland has left

  265. LNJ has joined

  266. Dave Cridland has left

  267. moparisthebest has joined

  268. Guus has left

  269. Ge0rG has left

  270. moparisthebest has joined

  271. goffi has left

  272. Dave Cridland has left

  273. goffi has joined

  274. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  275. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  276. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  277. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  278. Guus has left

  279. Dave Cridland has left

  280. Guus has left

  281. Guus has left

  282. Steve Kille has left

  283. Dave Cridland has left

  284. Steve Kille has joined

  285. Guus has left

  286. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  287. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  288. Ge0rG has left

  289. Guus has left

  290. LNJ has left

  291. Guus has left

  292. Guus has left

  293. Steve Kille has left

  294. ralphm has left

  295. Ge0rG has left

  296. Guus has left

  297. Guus has left

  298. vanitasvitae has left

  299. Guus has left

  300. ralphm has joined

  301. Guus has left

  302. Ge0rG has left

  303. Guus has left

  304. Guus has left

  305. mrdoctorwho has joined

  306. Martin has joined

  307. Ge0rG has left

  308. ralphm has left

  309. ralphm has joined

  310. Alex has joined

  311. Guus has left

  312. la|r|ma has joined

  313. Guus has left

  314. Ge0rG has left

  315. winfried has left

  316. Guus

    goodday! I'm working on migrating bookmarks (0048) from private xml storage (0049) to pep (0223). I'm was surprised to find a difference between the pubsub node defined in 0048 example 3 (the published item root element is 'storage', that itself contains 'conference') and 0233's example 3 (the published item root element is 'conference' directly, without the wrapping 'storage'). I expected those two examples to have the same structure. What's going on there?

  317. Guus has left

  318. jonasw

    didn’t we firstw ant to discuss whether we want to make that multi-item to avoid the races?

  319. winfried has joined

  320. Ge0rG has left

  321. moparisthebest has joined

  322. Guus has left

  323. Ge0rG has left

  324. lskdjf has joined

  325. Guus

    the last update to the xep was in 2008. That's a long discussion. :)

  326. Zash

    The update that changed it from private xml to pep?

  327. moparisthebest has joined

  328. Guus

    Yeah. Both xeps descrbe the PEP way of doing things, but use a different xml structure.

  329. Guus

    that's mildly confusing, at best. :)

  330. Zash

    Well, if you needed evidence that nobody has looked at this since :)

  331. Guus

    so... which one is it? :)

  332. Ge0rG has left

  333. jonasw

    Guus, look at what converse.js does. it might be the only implementation around.

  334. Ge0rG has left

  335. Guus

    LOL. JC is right here - as in, we're both in London, sharing an appartment, hacking on code :)

  336. Guus

    which is why this came up in the first place

  337. jonasw


  338. Guus


  339. Guus

    I think he later also attends a JMAP session, unsure (he's still in bed, we were coding until 3am last night)

  340. Guus

    I'm leaving later today

  341. jonasw

    secret xsf meetup, eh?

  342. Guus

    littlebit :)

  343. Guus

    well, we did discuss doing this more often, and having mini hackathons or something

  344. jonasw

    make a secret XSF meetup in Dresden, I’ll join

  345. Guus

    we've been pretty productive, and it's good fun

  346. Guus

    well, he's in germany, I'm in the netherlands... I we can make something work. :)

  347. Ge0rG has left

  348. Ge0rG has left

  349. Seve/SouL has joined

  350. Ge0rG has left

  351. vanitasvitae

    Dresden is even further away than Berlin 🙁

  352. Ge0rG has left

  353. Guus has left

  354. Guus has left

  355. Ge0rG has left

  356. deleteme9

    Oh. I considered going to that jmap session as well. But time...

  357. j.r has joined

  358. Zash

    RIP email

  359. deleteme9 has left

  360. deleteme9 has joined

  361. deleteme9 has left

  362. deleteme9 has joined

  363. MattJ

    JMAP is great

  364. MattJ

    if it's ever adopted

  365. Ge0rG has left

  366. Zash

    But JSON and HTTP? Meeeeeh :(

  367. daniel

    Depends. It's still pretty close to imap. Which is both a good thing but also a bad thing

  368. MattJ

    I once tried to write an IMAP client in Javascript

  369. daniel

    I have an unfinished library for an earlier version of jmap somewhere on my disk

  370. MattJ

    JMAP is great

  371. Ge0rG has left

  372. Zash

    MattJ: "in Javascript" :|

  373. Guus has left

  374. MattJ

    Zash, find me a nice UI framework as an alternative :/

  375. Guus has left

  376. Guus has left

  377. Valerian has joined

  378. Tobias

    JS the UI framework? :)

  379. jere has joined

  380. Ge0rG has left

  381. Ge0rG has left

  382. SaltyBones has left

  383. MattJ

    Tobias, no, just HTML/CSS/JS is a portable well-documented stack for writing apps, with a large ecosystem

  384. SaltyBones has joined

  385. Tobias


  386. Guus has left

  387. Guus has left

  388. jonasw

    for certain definitions of well-documented

  389. MattJ

    It comes with the choice of multiple runtimes, pretty much all of them large complex and bloated, but everyone has them installed

  390. Tobias

    everyone has them installed but you ship a new environment anyway

  391. Tobias

    everyone has them installed but you ship a new environment anyway (Electron)

  392. Zash

    It's a linked document system that evolved into an application platform.

  393. Valerian has left

  394. Tobias has joined

  395. Martin has left

  396. Ge0rG has left

  397. Valerian has joined

  398. Ge0rG has left

  399. SaltyBones has left

  400. SaltyBones has joined

  401. Neustradamus has left

  402. Neustradamus has joined

  403. Guus has left

  404. Guus has left

  405. Guus

    Daniel, MattJ, do you guys use PEP for private data storage?

  406. Ge0rG has left

  407. MattJ

    Prosody doesn't currently support private PEP nodes

  408. Ge0rG has left

  409. MattJ

    Roadmap is: Make our PEP implementation use the same code as our "full" pubsub implementation (done, pretty much) -> add publish-options support (in progress, almost done hopefully) -> add access model support (should be trivial)

  410. Zash

    Permissions and such are configurable, but only internally.

  411. deleteme9

    Guus: not yet

  412. Guus has left

  413. Guus

    deleteme9: you are aware that you are here as 'deleteme9'?

  414. deleteme9

    I'd switch bookmarks over in a heart beat. But I don't want to support both

  415. deleteme9


  416. deleteme9

    I'm on a dev phone with a different account

  417. Ge0rG has left

  418. Guus

    I'm finalizing a change in Openfire that would allow you to query the same data over both

  419. deleteme9

    And that phone was closer

  420. Guus

    However, there appears to be a descrepancy in 48/223

  421. deleteme9

    Guus: yes. That's what I'm afraid of. If you then push to both as a client that will get ugly

  422. Ge0rG has left

  423. deleteme9

    Not the descrepancy but what you Said earlier

  424. MattJ

    A disco feature was proposed

  425. deleteme9

    Can't type fast enough on my new phone

  426. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  427. Ge0rG has left

  428. Guus has left

  429. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  430. Ge0rG has left

  431. Guus has left

  432. Guus

    We're not keeping two distinct sets of data - we're using one set, that you can modify both through private xml storage as well as through the PEP thingy

  433. Guus

    the private xml storage does not broadcast, as far as I know, so it'd be up to the client to pick and choose one way to exchange this data?

  434. Guus has left

  435. Guus has left

  436. Guus has left

  437. Ge0rG has left

  438. Ge0rG has left

  439. Guus has left

  440. goffi has left

  441. Ge0rG has left

  442. Ge0rG has left

  443. Ge0rG has left

  444. Ge0rG has joined

  445. Guus has left

  446. Guus has left

  447. Guus has left

  448. Guus has left

  449. Ge0rG has left

  450. Ge0rG has left

  451. edhelas

    Guus thanks <3

  452. blabla has left

  453. edhelas

    Movim is already using Bookmarks on PEP for years

  454. blabla has joined

  455. Valerian has left

  456. Guus

    edhelas: can you review what I just send to standards@ then?

  457. SaltyBones has left

  458. SaltyBones has joined

  459. blabla has left

  460. blabla has joined

  461. blabla has left

  462. blabla has joined

  463. jubalh has joined

  464. Guus has left

  465. Guus has left

  466. jubalh has left

  467. Ge0rG has left

  468. vanitasvitae has left

  469. Ge0rG has left

  470. blabla has left

  471. blabla has joined

  472. Holger has left

  473. blabla has left

  474. blabla has joined

  475. Ge0rG has left

  476. Ge0rG has left

  477. Ge0rG has joined

  478. Martin has joined

  479. deleteme9 has left

  480. deleteme9 has joined

  481. Ge0rG has left

  482. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  483. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  484. deleteme9 has left

  485. deleteme9 has joined

  486. Ge0rG has left

  487. Ge0rG has left

  488. Ge0rG has left

  489. daniel has left

  490. daniel has left

  491. Ge0rG has left

  492. jonasw

    who’s deleteme9?

  493. Ge0rG has left

  494. pep. has left

  495. Guus


  496. jonasw


  497. Ge0rG has left

  498. Dave Cridland has left

  499. blabla has left

  500. blabla has joined

  501. Ge0rG has left

  502. edhelas

    Guus done :)

  503. Ge0rG has left

  504. Ge0rG has joined

  505. Dave Cridland has left

  506. Guus


  507. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  508. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  509. Ge0rG has left

  510. jubalh has joined

  511. jubalh has left

  512. Ge0rG has left

  513. daniel

    i think that difference between 48 and 223 makes sense if you assume that you want to put each bookmark in its own item

  514. daniel

    which would be kinda nice

  515. daniel

    but when in doubt 48 is right because 223 is just an example

  516. Guus


  517. Dave Cridland has left

  518. Dave Cridland has left

  519. Dave Cridland has left

  520. Ge0rG has left

  521. daniel has left

  522. vanitasvitae has left

  523. daniel has left

  524. SaltyBones has left

  525. SaltyBones has joined

  526. daniel has left

  527. Zash

    Oh and the <publish-option> issue where only pubsub#access_model is actually defined, has that been resolved?

  528. Valerian has joined

  529. Kev has left

  530. Valerian has left

  531. Guus

    Zash: I'm unsure what you're referring to

  532. Guus

    are you talking about the security issue where the publish-option can easily be ignored, which can lead to publication of items under false settings (such as by accident publicly publishing data that's ment to be private)?

  533. Ge0rG has left

  534. rion has left

  535. rion has joined

  536. Zash

    Guus: No, the fields in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0048.html#example-3

  537. Zash

    Well. pubsub#persist_items

  538. Zash

    What does that mean?

  539. daniel

    I think that has been resolved hasn't it?

  540. Zash

    Oh, '60 has been fixed so the're all preconditions?

  541. Zash

    Well then

  542. daniel

    Yes after some discussion in which unfortunately not many people participated it has been decided that this is the best move

  543. Zash

    Text in '60 makes sense

  544. nyco has left

  545. Martin has left

  546. nyco has joined

  547. mrdoctorwho has left

  548. mrdoctorwho has left

  549. mrdoctorwho has left

  550. mrdoctorwho has left

  551. jubalh has joined

  552. jubalh has left

  553. Ge0rG has left

  554. Guus

    yeah, those options confused us too. What we ended up with is that they are preconditions that must be met for existing nodes, and configuration overrides for nodes that do not exist (assuming auto-create is allowed).

  555. Zash

    This conflicts with cloud push, dontit?

  556. daniel

    Zash: not if the app server doesn't announce publish options as a feature

  557. daniel

    But yes that should probably be changed somehow

  558. daniel

    Maybe by push not using pubsub syntax at all

  559. daniel

    But at least on paper we don't have a problem here

  560. j.r has joined

  561. Dave Cridland has left

  562. Guus has left

  563. nyco has left

  564. Dave Cridland has left

  565. Dave Cridland has left

  566. SaltyBones has left

  567. Ge0rG has left

  568. SaltyBones has joined

  569. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  570. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  571. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  572. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  573. Guus has left

  574. Guus has left

  575. Guus has left

  576. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  577. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  578. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  579. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  580. Ge0rG has left

  581. winfried has joined

  582. winfried has joined

  583. moparisthebest has left

  584. SamWhited has joined

  585. LNJ has joined

  586. SamWhited has joined

  587. Tobias has joined

  588. Ge0rG has left

  589. jubalh has joined

  590. jubalh has left

  591. lovetox has joined

  592. lovetox

    what clients do use user mood and user activity

  593. lovetox


  594. Zash


  595. lovetox

    i just thought about the xep and it feels a bit useless

  596. lovetox

    user can set status message with presence

  597. lovetox

    he can put emojis and any text he like in there

  598. lovetox

    why would he set beside that a mood

  599. intosi

    Because not everyone is interested in that info. Presence flooding is a real thing.

  600. Zash

    Was emoji even a thing back then?

  601. lovetox

    i didnt mean it was useless back then

  602. lovetox

    i wonder about today

  603. lovetox

    idont see this as presence flooding

  604. Zash

    If combined with access controls, you could in theory only show your closest friends your mood. Or somesuch.

  605. lovetox

    you will not change more often your mood than your status

  606. lovetox

    i re-evaluate these xeps in gajim currently so i wonder if its worth to keep them

  607. lovetox

    would it not make more sense to have a user status xep

  608. lovetox

    just a node where a user can publish multiple things that could be extended

  609. lovetox

    like a link to a picture

  610. lovetox

    or video

  611. Zash

    Hm, wasn't the need for a status-in-pep xep agreed upon already?

  612. jonasw

    yeah, that was part of summit

  613. Guus has left

  614. j.r has joined

  615. jonasw

    lovetox, go write it down, it’ll get accepted

  616. vanitasvitae has left

  617. j.r has left

  618. j.r has joined

  619. jere has joined

  620. lovetox

    yeah maybe i invest my energy into that instead of refactoring code for mood and activity

  621. lovetox

    because almost no one supports that anyway

  622. Zash

    Poezio and pidgin does

  623. Zash

    Or, activity at least

  624. Zash

    Yeah, mood too

  625. lovetox

    so what does a status xep need

  626. Ge0rG has left

  627. lovetox

    text obviously

  628. lovetox

    a way to add a URI to some file or video

  629. Zash

    <show> and <status> from presence probably?

  630. lovetox

    really show?

  631. Zash


  632. lovetox

    why we have that in presence

  633. lovetox

    why would i need it in status again

  634. Zash

    I got the impression that consensus was that the things in <presence> ought to be in a per-account PEP thing instead.

  635. Zash

    And the relevant things are basically just show and status

  636. lovetox

    you talk like you can get rid of presence

  637. lovetox

    presence will be there, so the show information is already known to the client

  638. Martin has joined

  639. lovetox

    hm or is it possible to leave show out of presnece?

  640. Guus has left

  641. Zash

    I said nothing about removing from presence.

  642. jere has joined

  643. Zash

    It'd probably be a mess of both anyways

  644. Guus has left

  645. lovetox

    also different resources can have differen show

  646. Guus has left

  647. Guus has left

  648. daniel has left

  649. lovetox

    show can never be in a pep node

  650. daniel

    There was talk at the summit (and I tend to agree with the idea) to remove Show and status from presence and put that into a pep node

  651. lovetox

    if i disconnect, the pep node will show online forever

  652. daniel

    Because if you are dnd with one client you probably want to be dnd with all

  653. lovetox

    but than you need server addon

  654. daniel

    And what ever clever status you came up with you probably want that to be global as well

  655. Zash

    Well, sometimes I don't want you to disturb my phone, but you can talk to me at my desktop

  656. lovetox

    that changes the show inside the pepnode in some circumstances

  657. Guus has left

  658. daniel

    Zash: with carbons that will arrive at your phone though and disturb you there anyway, no?

  659. lovetox

    yeah what Zash said, im not sold on that, seems forced, and the only plus is that you can sync show over clients, but who really wants that

  660. Zash


  661. Zash

    I was fairly happy with how it worked when I originally stared with Jabber after all

  662. lovetox

    if you set status DND on your client and he still notifys you the same as when you are online

  663. Zash

    I didn't want to move to everything everywhere all the time and everything persisted forever on some cloud somewhere

  664. lovetox

    i woudl say thats a client problem

  665. daniel has left

  666. daniel has joined

  667. Zash

    And a dnd status doesn't seem to stop people from messaging anyways

  668. lovetox

    why should it? if you dont want to get messages go offline

  669. Guus has left

  670. Guus has left

  671. Zash

    lovetox: re your original question, why not rip out mood and stuff into a plugin (or tell those who wants the feature to write a plugin)

  672. lovetox

    because i need to add a api to show the icons than

  673. lovetox

    and maintain that until the end of time

  674. lovetox

    lets do a status xep

  675. lovetox

    but this show idea has way to many holes for me

  676. lovetox

    and also its just not really solving a problem

  677. lovetox

    i never heard someone complain that he wants his status synced over all clients

  678. MattJ

    lovetox, plugins being able to show icons next to the contacts, for a client like Gajim, seems like a nice idea :)

  679. lovetox

    was the current trend not to dont even allow and show status changes ^^

  680. Zash

    it seems to be coming back

  681. Zash

    you can be ahead of the curve!

  682. Zash

    trens are often cyclic after all

  683. Zash

    I mean gateways and transports are apparently all the rage again

  684. Maranda

    Are they?

  685. intosi dusts off Jabber RPC

  686. Zash

    Isn't that the sell with Matrix?

  687. Maranda

    🤣 🤣

  688. Zash

    And the whole Slack bridge issue

  689. lovetox

    hm what does movim?

  690. lovetox

    do they put status into pubsub

  691. Maranda

    XMPP bridge/federation of MatriX?

  692. Zash

    And the thing where we've got a new generation of a bazillion different services and people are getting fed up with having a ton of chat apps at once

  693. Zash

    All the old is new again!

  694. Guus has left

  695. edhelas

    Also tons of social network accounts

  696. moparisthebest

    are there tons of social networks? I thought it was essentially just facebook

  697. moparisthebest

    same with chat really, except like 8 of 10 top chat apps are just facebook owned...

  698. Zash

    don't forget how google has a dosen or something

  699. Guus has left

  700. Maranda


  701. Zash

    also signal, wire, telegram, ... others

  702. Maranda

    All I use is Facebook and Instagram... Or should I count WhatsApp too?

  703. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  704. edhelas


  705. moparisthebest

    someone in some xmpp muc pasted a chart of the top 10 chat apps recently...

  706. moparisthebest

    not recently enough for me to find in history though

  707. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  708. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  709. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  710. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  711. Maranda

    I tried to get someone to use Conversations apparently it's "nerd stuff", "rocket science" 🤔

  712. Nekit has left

  713. Nekit has joined

  714. Dave Cridland has left

  715. Dave Cridland has left

  716. Dave Cridland has left

  717. tux has joined

  718. Guus has left

  719. Guus has left

  720. Guus has left

  721. moparisthebest

    I tend to think there is no hope for a user that just wants to use their phone number and no username/password

  722. moparisthebest

    because that's really the only hurdle to conversations over whatscrap

  723. lovetox

    i can tell you that order moparisthebest

  724. lovetox

    whatsapp, facebook, weechat, rest

  725. moparisthebest

    weechat the IRC relay? no way normal users use that

  726. j.r has joined

  727. moparisthebest

    I was shocked recently when a few newish ~25 year old programmers started at work and hadn't heard of IRC... :'(

  728. lovetox

    So was the talks about the status xep anywhere written down

  729. lovetox

    then i give it a try to write down a xep

  730. lovetox

    moparisthebest, wee chat is the biggest messenger in china

  731. lovetox

    i think a billion users easy

  732. jubalh has joined

  733. moparisthebest

    "WeeChat is a free and open-source Internet Relay Chat client" https://weechat.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeeChat

  734. moparisthebest

    ah so you meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat :)

  735. lovetox

    lol, ok there are 2 :d

  736. moparisthebest

    I'd only heard of the IRC one, wikipedia has at the top "Not to be confused with WeChat." but clearly they *are* to be confused haha

  737. daniel has left

  738. jubalh has left

  739. jubalh has joined

  740. blabla has left

  741. vanitasvitae has left

  742. Dave Cridland has left

  743. daniel has joined

  744. lovetox

    is there somewhere a list with all published xeps?

  745. moparisthebest

    lovetox, https://xmpp.org/extensions/ ?

  746. lovetox

    yes nice

  747. Neustradamus

    lovetox: Psi/+

  748. Dave Cridland has left

  749. moparisthebest

    lovetox, also https://github.com/xsf/xeps if you'd rather grep XML or whatever

  750. Ge0rG has left

  751. Neustradamus

    Today, I have looked the https://xmpp.org/registrar/namespaces.html, not all are on it

  752. Guus has left

  753. Guus has left

  754. Tobias has left

  755. vanitasvitae has left

  756. Guus has left

  757. Dave Cridland has left

  758. tux has left

  759. ludo has joined

  760. Dave Cridland has left

  761. Ge0rG has left

  762. Guus has left

  763. Guus has left

  764. Dave Cridland has left

  765. Guus has left

  766. Guus has joined

  767. Dave Cridland has left

  768. lovetox has left

  769. Dave Cridland has left

  770. Yagiza has joined

  771. SamWhited has joined

  772. SamWhited has left

  773. SamWhited has joined

  774. ludo has left

  775. Guus has left

  776. Guus has left

  777. lovetox has joined

  778. Guus has left

  779. Ge0rG has left

  780. Guus has left

  781. Guus has left

  782. Guus has left

  783. SaltyBones has left

  784. SaltyBones has joined

  785. mimi89999 has joined

  786. Guus has left

  787. Guus has left

  788. Guus has left

  789. jubalh has joined

  790. jubalh has joined

  791. Dave Cridland has left

  792. Neustradamus has left

  793. Neustradamus has joined

  794. Guus

    Neustradamus: please provide fixes.

  795. jubalh has left

  796. Neustradamus has left

  797. Neustradamus has joined

  798. Guus has left

  799. Guus has left

  800. Ge0rG has left

  801. Neustradamus has left

  802. Neustradamus has joined

  803. waqas has joined

  804. waqas has left

  805. efrit has joined

  806. lovetox

    can xep 372 be used for quoting older messages?

  807. Ge0rG has left

  808. lovetox

    or was the idea something different

  809. lovetox

    because im a bit confused why it says message MUST NOT contain a body

  810. lovetox

    quoting messages without adding a reply seems not so nice

  811. j.r has joined

  812. Kev has left

  813. Guus has left

  814. daniel has left

  815. daniel has joined

  816. lovetox

    ah no i see we have 0367 for that

  817. lovetox

    seems reference use case is something differnet

  818. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  819. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  820. Guus has left

  821. lovetox

    ok no thats also not it

  822. Nekit has left

  823. Nekit has joined

  824. lovetox

    i hoped there is something easy like adding a stanza id so the other client knows this is a reply to that message and can show it as a quote

  825. lovetox

    though a client that does not support that would miss the meaning..

  826. lovetox

    hm i guess i stick to > for quoting

  827. lovetox

    or use the new 0394

  828. Guus has left

  829. MattJ

    ITYM 393: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0393.html#quote

  830. moparisthebest

    plus it's not like stanza id is globally unique, or that you can rely on any client actually having that copy?

  831. Zash

    the touple of (jid, stanza-id) should be tho

  832. SaltyBones has left

  833. Guus has left

  834. Guus has left

  835. SaltyBones has joined

  836. rion has left

  837. lovetox

    and why should i care if someone uses a client thats no able to generate a uuid?

  838. Dave Cridland has left

  839. lovetox

    people should not use these clients

  840. lovetox

    with stanza-id i meant message-id

  841. lovetox

    i was not talking about a mam added stanza-id

  842. moparisthebest

    still the second part is true isn't it?

  843. marmistrz has joined

  844. lovetox

    yes, contact not having the referenced message is a problem

  845. lovetox

    using 0394 is also a problem

  846. lovetox

    if the other client doesnt support it, every trace of quote is gone

  847. moparisthebest

    I'd say just use 393 just like everything has always done even before 393 or even xmpp

  848. lovetox

    this might be one of the exceptions where you want to mix markup and 0394

  849. rion has joined

  850. moparisthebest

    good enough for email/irc, good enough now :)

  851. lovetox

    how is this good enough if you receive a message like this

  852. lovetox

    > do it like that

  853. lovetox

    who wrote this message?

  854. lovetox

    who am i quoting?

  855. moparisthebest

    looks like you quoted a message to me

  856. lovetox

    what time was this message written?

  857. lovetox

    all these things could be added in 0394

  858. moparisthebest

    > [TIMESTAMPHERE] lovetox: bla bla bla

  859. moparisthebest

    good enough

  860. moparisthebest

    doesn't 394 have a way to discover if a contact has support? if not it's useless

  861. Martin has left

  862. lovetox

    yes but this does not help you if there are multiple devices, and your contact is offline

  863. moparisthebest

    then you can't use it

  864. lovetox

    discovery for such things was always a bit meh

  865. lovetox

    most people just ignore it

  866. Guus has left

  867. lovetox

    like with message receipts

  868. lovetox

    i dont care if a contact supports that or not

  869. lovetox

    just send it

  870. lovetox

    and the same with xhtml etc, maybe contact comes later online with a client that knows xhtml and loads message from MAM

  871. moparisthebest

    well you can always send both like some clients (pidgin?) does with xhtml and open up all sorts of security problems with PGP/OMEMO/OTR

  872. lovetox

    yes encryption is a trap

  873. lovetox

    but after falling in this trap i have now a sanitizer that has a tag whitelist

  874. moparisthebest

    or you can ignore 394 and just send messages every client will understand regardless of if they have explicit 393 support or not...

  875. lovetox

    so this can never happen again

  876. lovetox

    gajim supports > quoting

  877. lovetox

    but i think about ways to draw it more beautiful, and a reference to the original message seems helpful with that

  878. lovetox

    so doing > blabla

  879. lovetox

    and adding more stuff via 0294

  880. lovetox


  881. lovetox

    and when displaying with 0394 support, delete the > out of the message

  882. lovetox

    this seems one of these exceptions where you want to have markup inside body

  883. Martin has joined

  884. lovetox has left

  885. tux has joined

  886. lovetox has joined

  887. rion has left

  888. rion has joined

  889. Dave Cridland has left

  890. ludo has joined

  891. Dave Cridland has left

  892. j.r has joined

  893. tux has left

  894. jubalh has joined

  895. jubalh has left

  896. jubalh has joined

  897. ludo has left

  898. jubalh has left

  899. Ge0rG has left

  900. lovetox has left

  901. daniel has left

  902. tux has joined

  903. SamWhited has left

  904. Dave Cridland has left

  905. j.r has joined

  906. Dave Cridland has left

  907. SamWhited has left

  908. tux has joined

  909. Dave Cridland has left

  910. jere has joined

  911. j.r has left

  912. j.r has joined

  913. ludo has joined

  914. ralphm has left

  915. pep. has left

  916. Tobias has joined

  917. Ge0rG has left

  918. marc has left

  919. Nekit has left

  920. j.r has left

  921. j.r has joined

  922. Guus has left

  923. ludo has left

  924. mimi89999 has joined

  925. SaltyBones has left

  926. SaltyBones has joined

  927. Guus has left

  928. SamWhited has left

  929. Ge0rG


  930. Guus has left

  931. daniel has joined

  932. Fabian has left

  933. jubalh has joined

  934. valo has joined

  935. ludo has joined

  936. j.r has joined

  937. Ge0rG has left

  938. efrit has left

  939. efrit has joined

  940. Valerian has joined

  941. Valerian has left

  942. Valerian has joined

  943. ludo has left

  944. intosi has left

  945. blabla has left

  946. Steve Kille has left

  947. Steve Kille has left

  948. rion has left

  949. rion has joined

  950. rion has left

  951. Ge0rG has left

  952. ralphm has joined

  953. j.r has joined

  954. Martin has left

  955. Steve Kille has joined

  956. rion has joined

  957. Guus has left

  958. blabla has left

  959. blabla has joined

  960. ralphm has joined

  961. blabla has left

  962. blabla has joined

  963. Guus has left

  964. jubalh has left

  965. Ge0rG has left

  966. Guus

    How is the German meetup going? #PicsOrItDidntHappen

  967. Guus has left

  968. Dave Cridland has left

  969. Guus has left

  970. Fabian has joined

  971. moparisthebest has joined

  972. rion has left

  973. Yagiza has left

  974. Fabian has left

  975. Guus has left

  976. Guus has left

  977. Dave Cridland has left

  978. Dave Cridland has left

  979. daniel has left

  980. j.r has left

  981. j.r has joined

  982. waqas has joined

  983. Holger

    Guus: Very well, 11 people, a few of them first-time visitors.

  984. Holger

    > #PicsOrItDidntHappen My upload is currently broken, sorry 😉

  985. Dave Cridland has left

  986. Ge0rG has left

  987. daniel has joined

  988. MattJ

    Holger, nonsense, it's HTTP, it just works!

  989. Tobias has joined

  990. Yagiza has joined

  991. Guus has left

  992. Guus

    Holger: what he said!

  993. LNJ has left

  994. mrdoctorwho has joined

  995. Ge0rG

    Holger: you need a better client then.

  996. valo has left

  997. lovetox has joined

  998. valo has joined

  999. Dave Cridland has left

  1000. Ge0rG has left

  1001. Guus has left

  1002. Yagiza has left

  1003. Guus has left

  1004. jubalh has joined

  1005. Alex has left

  1006. Guus has left

  1007. Guus has left

  1008. Guus has left

  1009. Guus has left

  1010. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1011. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1012. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1013. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1014. pep. has left

  1015. rion has joined

  1016. Guus has left

  1017. Ge0rG has left

  1018. j.r has joined

  1019. daniel has left

  1020. SaltyBones has left

  1021. Dave Cridland has left

  1022. SaltyBones has joined

  1023. ralphm has left

  1024. j.r has joined

  1025. ralphm has joined

  1026. daniel has joined

  1027. marmistrz has joined

  1028. jubalh has left

  1029. Ge0rG has left

  1030. j.r has left

  1031. j.r has joined

  1032. Valerian has left

  1033. Valerian has joined

  1034. Dave Cridland has left

  1035. Ge0rG has left

  1036. j.r has joined

  1037. Dave Cridland has left

  1038. Syndace has left

  1039. Syndace has joined

  1040. j.r has joined

  1041. Dave Cridland has left

  1042. Dave Cridland has left

  1043. Dave Cridland has left

  1044. SaltyBones has left

  1045. SaltyBones has joined

  1046. Dave Cridland has left

  1047. Dave Cridland has left

  1048. daniel has left

  1049. Ge0rG has left

  1050. Dave Cridland has left

  1051. Dave Cridland has left

  1052. Dave Cridland has left

  1053. Dave Cridland has left

  1054. Valerian has left

  1055. Valerian has joined

  1056. Guus has left

  1057. Dave Cridland has left

  1058. Guus has left

  1059. Ge0rG has left

  1060. Dave Cridland has left

  1061. Dave Cridland has left

  1062. Dave Cridland has left

  1063. Dave Cridland has left

  1064. daniel has joined

  1065. Fabian has joined

  1066. Guus has left

  1067. Dave Cridland has left

  1068. Dave Cridland has left

  1069. Dave Cridland has left

  1070. LNJ has joined

  1071. Dave Cridland has left

  1072. Ge0rG has left

  1073. SaltyBones has left

  1074. Zash has left

  1075. SaltyBones has joined

  1076. Dave Cridland has left

  1077. Guus has left

  1078. Guus has left

  1079. vanitasvitae has left

  1080. la|r|ma has joined

  1081. Alex has joined

  1082. Ge0rG has left

  1083. Valerian has left

  1084. efrit has left

  1085. Dave Cridland has left

  1086. daniel has left

  1087. daniel has joined

  1088. Dave Cridland has left

  1089. efrit has joined

  1090. rion has left

  1091. Dave Cridland has left

  1092. Ge0rG has left

  1093. marc has left

  1094. Dave Cridland has left

  1095. Valerian has joined

  1096. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1097. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1098. Dave Cridland has left

  1099. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1100. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1101. waqas has left

  1102. waqas has joined

  1103. waqas has left

  1104. Dave Cridland has left

  1105. waqas has joined

  1106. Dave Cridland has left

  1107. Ge0rG has left

  1108. Fabian has left

  1109. Dave Cridland has left

  1110. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1111. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1112. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1113. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1114. Dave Cridland has left

  1115. Ge0rG has left

  1116. Guus has left

  1117. lskdjf has joined

  1118. Lance has joined

  1119. Lance has left

  1120. Dave Cridland has left

  1121. Ge0rG has left

  1122. Dave Cridland has left

  1123. Dave Cridland has left

  1124. Alex has left

  1125. Dave Cridland has left

  1126. Dave Cridland has left

  1127. Dave Cridland has joined

  1128. Guus has left

  1129. Guus has left

  1130. Guus has left

  1131. Dave Cridland has left

  1132. Dave Cridland has left

  1133. Ge0rG has left

  1134. Guus has left

  1135. remko has left

  1136. Guus has left

  1137. marmistrz has joined

  1138. Dave Cridland has left

  1139. Dave Cridland has left

  1140. marmistrz has joined

  1141. Dave Cridland has left

  1142. Dave Cridland has left

  1143. Lance has joined

  1144. Lance has left

  1145. Dave Cridland has left

  1146. j.r has joined

  1147. la|r|ma has left

  1148. la|r|ma has joined

  1149. j.r has joined

  1150. Dave Cridland has left

  1151. Guus has left

  1152. Ge0rG has left

  1153. Dave Cridland has left

  1154. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1155. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1156. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1157. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1158. la|r|ma has left

  1159. la|r|ma has left

  1160. la|r|ma has joined

  1161. Dave Cridland has left

  1162. Dave Cridland has left

  1163. Dave Cridland has joined

  1164. Guus has left

  1165. Dave Cridland has left

  1166. Dave Cridland has left

  1167. Dave Cridland has joined

  1168. moparisthebest has joined

  1169. la|r|ma has left

  1170. la|r|ma has joined

  1171. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1172. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1173. Dave Cridland has left

  1174. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1175. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1176. Ge0rG has left

  1177. la|r|ma has joined

  1178. la|r|ma has left

  1179. la|r|ma has joined

  1180. Dave Cridland has left

  1181. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  1182. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  1183. jubalh has joined

  1184. la|r|ma has joined

  1185. Guus has left

  1186. jubalh has left

  1187. la|r|ma has joined

  1188. Zash has left

  1189. la|r|ma has left

  1190. la|r|ma has joined

  1191. jubalh has joined

  1192. lovetox

    so i written down a xep draft

  1193. lovetox

    inside a xml file

  1194. lovetox

    how can i get this to be rendered?

  1195. lovetox

    if i open it with chrome it shows nothing

  1196. daniel has left

  1197. Dave Cridland has left

  1198. daniel has joined

  1199. Dave Cridland has left

  1200. Zash has left

  1201. la|r|ma has joined

  1202. LNJ has left

  1203. Dave Cridland has left

  1204. la|r|ma has joined

  1205. la|r|ma has left

  1206. Dave Cridland has left

  1207. Alex has left

  1208. Dave Cridland has left

  1209. SaltyBones has left

  1210. Ge0rG has left

  1211. Dave Cridland has left

  1212. la|r|ma has joined

  1213. Dave Cridland has left

  1214. Dave Cridland has left

  1215. Neustradamus

    lovetox: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0134.html + https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0143.html

  1216. SaltyBones has joined

  1217. lovetox

    thx Neustradamus

  1218. Dave Cridland has left

  1219. Dave Cridland has left

  1220. Dave Cridland has left

  1221. moparisthebest has joined

  1222. Dave Cridland has left

  1223. la|r|ma has joined

  1224. lovetox

    hm nice ok worked :)

  1225. Dave Cridland has left

  1226. Valerian has left

  1227. winfried has left

  1228. winfried has joined

  1229. Dave Cridland has left

  1230. winfried has left

  1231. winfried has joined

  1232. Ge0rG has left

  1233. la|r|ma has joined

  1234. daniel has left

  1235. Dave Cridland has left

  1236. Guus has left

  1237. Dave Cridland has left

  1238. SamWhited has left

  1239. winfried has left

  1240. winfried has joined

  1241. la|r|ma has left

  1242. Dave Cridland has left

  1243. winfried has left

  1244. winfried has joined

  1245. Dave Cridland has left

  1246. winfried has joined

  1247. winfried has left

  1248. la|r|ma has joined

  1249. Guus has left

  1250. la|r|ma has joined

  1251. winfried has joined

  1252. Dave Cridland has left

  1253. andy has joined

  1254. winfried has joined

  1255. winfried has joined

  1256. la|r|ma has joined

  1257. Dave Cridland has left

  1258. winfried has joined

  1259. winfried has joined

  1260. Ge0rG has left

  1261. lovetox

    so here http://www.funkroom.net/xep/xep-status.html i copied most of the stuff from other xeps hope this is no problem does someone care to tell me what was talked about and what should go into this

  1262. winfried has joined

  1263. Dave Cridland has left

  1264. winfried has joined

  1265. jubalh has left

  1266. winfried has joined

  1267. winfried has left

  1268. Dave Cridland has left

  1269. Guus has left

  1270. winfried has joined

  1271. Dave Cridland has left

  1272. winfried has joined

  1273. winfried has left

  1274. winfried has joined

  1275. Ge0rG has left

  1276. winfried has left

  1277. winfried has joined

  1278. Dave Cridland has left

  1279. winfried has left

  1280. winfried has joined

  1281. Dave Cridland has left

  1282. Dave Cridland has left

  1283. winfried has joined

  1284. winfried has joined

  1285. Dave Cridland has left

  1286. Dave Cridland has left

  1287. jubalh has joined

  1288. jubalh has left

  1289. winfried has joined

  1290. winfried has joined

  1291. Dave Cridland has left

  1292. winfried has left

  1293. winfried has joined

  1294. winfried has joined

  1295. Dave Cridland has left

  1296. winfried has joined

  1297. Dave Cridland has left

  1298. winfried has left

  1299. winfried has joined

  1300. Dave Cridland has left

  1301. SaltyBones has left

  1302. SaltyBones has joined

  1303. jere has joined

  1304. waqas has left

  1305. winfried has joined

  1306. winfried has joined

  1307. Ge0rG has left

  1308. jjrh has left

  1309. winfried has joined

  1310. winfried has joined

  1311. edhelas

    soon Presence over PEP ?

  1312. winfried has joined

  1313. valo has joined

  1314. winfried has left

  1315. winfried has joined

  1316. jubalh has joined

  1317. winfried has joined

  1318. winfried has joined

  1319. jjrh has left

  1320. winfried has joined

  1321. winfried has joined

  1322. jubalh has left

  1323. winfried has joined

  1324. winfried has joined

  1325. daniel has joined

  1326. winfried has joined

  1327. winfried has joined

  1328. lovetox

    the question is why do i have to parse from 2 xeps and one core mechanic stuff to get the full status of a contact

  1329. lovetox

    presence, mood, activity

  1330. winfried has joined

  1331. lovetox

    i just want to provide a textfield where the user can put in whatever he likes (emojis, text) and publish this to all my contacts

  1332. andy has left

  1333. lovetox

    not send a presence, publish my mood, then publish my activity

  1334. Tobias has joined

  1335. winfried has joined

  1336. Dave Cridland has left

  1337. winfried has joined

  1338. winfried has joined

  1339. lovetox

    and with the added bonus of pep syncing this also to my other clients, this just makes sense :)

  1340. winfried has left

  1341. winfried has joined

  1342. winfried has joined

  1343. j.r has joined

  1344. Maranda has joined

  1345. deleteme9 has left

  1346. deleteme9 has joined

  1347. winfried has joined

  1348. winfried has joined

  1349. deleteme9 has left

  1350. deleteme9 has joined

  1351. goffi has left

  1352. Ge0rG has left

  1353. winfried has joined

  1354. winfried has joined

  1355. Guus has left

  1356. winfried has left

  1357. winfried has joined

  1358. winfried has left

  1359. winfried has joined

  1360. Guus has left

  1361. winfried has joined

  1362. winfried has joined

  1363. Dave Cridland has left

  1364. winfried has joined

  1365. winfried has left

  1366. winfried has joined

  1367. winfried has joined

  1368. Dave Cridland has left

  1369. winfried has joined

  1370. winfried has left

  1371. winfried has joined

  1372. j.r has joined

  1373. Dave Cridland has left

  1374. Ge0rG has left

  1375. Dave Cridland has left

  1376. SaltyBones has left

  1377. Dave Cridland has left

  1378. Dave Cridland has left

  1379. Dave Cridland has left

  1380. Dave Cridland has left

  1381. Ge0rG has left

  1382. Dave Cridland has left

  1383. Dave Cridland has left

  1384. Dave Cridland has left

  1385. Dave Cridland has left

  1386. Dave Cridland has left

  1387. jjrh has left

  1388. deleteme9 has left

  1389. Dave Cridland has left

  1390. jubalh has joined

  1391. jubalh has left

  1392. Dave Cridland has left

  1393. Dave Cridland has left

  1394. Dave Cridland has left

  1395. jjrh has left

  1396. Dave Cridland has left

  1397. Dave Cridland has left

  1398. Ge0rG has left

  1399. Dave Cridland has left

  1400. Dave Cridland has left

  1401. moparisthebest has joined

  1402. Dave Cridland has left

  1403. Dave Cridland has left

  1404. Dave Cridland has left

  1405. jjrh has left

  1406. Dave Cridland has left

  1407. Dave Cridland has left

  1408. lovetox has left

  1409. Dave Cridland has left

  1410. jjrh has left