marc: You've not seen the looooooong threads about how OMEMO can't be used unless there's a non-GPL library?
moparisthebest
Gpl is the best, don't fight it, just let it's glory wash over you
Syndace
moparisthebest: Thanks, will do so later
marc
Zash, no, are you kidding me? :D
SamWhited
Please dear god don't make another GPL implementation…
Zash
marc: I don't know how long the threads were. Server dev, etc.
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Syndace
Aaaaaaah haaalp :D
Zash
marc: But they existed.
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SamWhited
I would absolutely *love* it if there was an Apache or BSD/MIT/similar licensed version.
Zash
Code in RFCs are usually some BSD license for a reason, after all.
Syndace
I really don't want GPL, but if just looking at their wire format makes the lib GPL, I have no choice
marc
Zash, what's the problem in a nutshell?
SamWhited
It doesn't as long as you're not redistributing their library or code.
SamWhited
(disclaimer: not a lawyer, etc.)
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Syndace
Well the one thing that I kind of have to "copy" or at least recreate is their protobuf structure definition
goffi
Syndace: FSF can link you with a lawyer if you need advices
Syndace
That's just part of the current OMEMO specification and there's no way (I can think of) to avoid that
Zash
marc: It doesn't fit in a nutshell.
SamWhited
Are we still using their protobuf stuff? I thought daniel moved OMEMO off of that a while ago
SamWhited
Apparently I was mistaken
Syndace
SamWhited, nope, that's the current OMEMO xep
Syndace
including the protobuf stuff
Syndace
SamWhited: I think the other ones are still pr's on github
SamWhited
oh right, we never merged those.
SamWhited
Partially due to the disagreement about there not being a non-GPL library, IIRC :)
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Syndace
Ha!
moparisthebest
Syndace: so the proper way to do that is have someone else look and document it, then you recreate it from docs
Zash
marc: Look for posts by Remko or Kev I guess
moparisthebest
But it's too late now...
Syndace
moparisthebest: Not too late, the wireformat is just a super small part, I might aswell release the lib without the wire format first.
marc
Zash, @standards
Zash
Implement only from documentation, while being locked in a room with only that documentation and an airgapped type writer.
marc
?
Zash
marc: yes
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moparisthebest
But then you can't write it since you looked Syndace , you could document it though
Zash
Or pray that they don't read these logs :)
moparisthebest
https://github.com/SirCmpwn/TrueCraft/blob/master/README.md#get-involved similarish problem explaining it Syndace
moparisthebest
OWS does have a history of suing people too
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Syndace
So, following plan: The library is alreay split into multiple projects: The X3DH key agreement, the DoubleRatchet the XEdDSA and the final OMEMO library, putting it all together.
All of the parts, except for the OMEMO library, were written without having a single look at the libsignal implementation.
So, I could release huge parts under MIT, except for the OMEMO part, which I have to GPL apparently.
That's what we could do as a transitional solution. And as soon as we merge a PR moving away from the libsignal wire format, we can swap the last part to MIT.
vanitasvitae
Syndace: you could define your own wire format
vanitasvitae
The we patch libsignal :D
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vanitasvitae
Nevermind, thata what you just wrote :D
lovetox
Syndace, do you have your code public?
Syndace
not yet
Syndace
Expected in a few days, less than a week
lovetox
i currently use python-axolotl
lovetox
but it uses pycrypto which is bad, and also the project seems not maintained anymore
lovetox
so im looking forward to your work
Syndace
lovetox: Nice to hear, I'm super excited :D
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Syndace
My phone is going to die, I'll read through the links you sent me later, in the worst case I'll just have to GPL it for now and we'll see what the future brings. I really don't want problems with the law.
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goffi
Syndace: GPL is OK for me, looking forward to try it too, thanks to it I may implement OMEMO earlier than initially planed
moparisthebest
Honestly closed source e2e is worthless anyway
goffi
moparisthebest: GPL is an issue with Apple, AFAIK it's not compatible with apple store
moparisthebest
goffi: Apple can go to hell :)
goffi
I could do a IPhone frontend more or less easily without that
Syndace
goffi: libsignal has an exception for apply in their lib
goffi
moparisthebest: agreed, but still lot of people use it, and if we want XMPP to spread
moparisthebest
But libsignal etc has Apple store exceptions...
moparisthebest
goffi: chatsecure on iOS already does omemo
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goffi
moparisthebest: yes, but would be nice to have alternative, and in our case we have many features not implemented in chat secure
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moparisthebest
goffi: what's stopping anyone from improving it, forking it, or just creating a new one?
moparisthebest
Certainly not the gpl
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goffi
moparisthebest: I have already a client which could work in iOS easily on the technical side, but not because of their stupid conditions, that's all I'm saying.
moparisthebest
goffi: so complain to Apple? Idk
moparisthebest
The solution to brain dead apple policy decisions is not to relicense all software with worse licences
daniel
iOS market share is in decline. Just sit it out
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goffi
moparisthebest: I was saying that to explain why GPL could be a problem (I was not aware of the exception in libsignal), and I'm not willing to relicense because of apple.
moparisthebest
But that's an apple problem not a gpl one...
goffi
I agree, but that's a reason why people may want an non gpl OMEMO lib
goffi
I'm not blaming GPL in any way
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moparisthebest
It's clear why Apple hates the GPL, they've made their Fortune off the backs of open source code that isn't GPL, if everything was GPL they wouldn't be a company
Zash
They haven't figured out how it goes both ways
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moparisthebest
Well GPL makes it go both ways, MIT/ Apache etc it only goes one way, into Apple's pockets
Zash
I mean, the dual-licensing thing some do.
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Andrew Nenakhov
goffi, > moparisthebest: GPL is an issue with Apple, AFAIK it's not compatible with apple store
That is not true
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Andrew Nenakhov
One can run open source app on AppStore pretty fine unless some of the contributors will issue a complaint. That was the reason of vlc takedown several years ago
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Andrew Nenakhov
So we'll be forced to sign contributors to give us all rights to contributed code if we are to accept PRs