XSF Discussion - 2018-04-05

  1. intosi

    Most useless message in years: "I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo"

  2. intosi

    Send me the bloody message instead.

  3. Seve/SouL

    Welcome to the club! o/

  4. Seve/SouL


  5. Ge0rG

    I wonder if that qualifies as "message not delivered end-to-end"

  6. Maranda


  7. lovetox

    on what server is the jdev room?

  8. lovetox

    muc.xmpp.org seems not the correct one

  9. Ge0rG

    lovetox: it's on conference.jabber.org and that was down for some hours today

  10. Ge0rG

    which reminds me to remind you to make the join-/account dialogs not split the JID

  11. lovetox

    ok then i ask my question here, you are the right person for that Ge0rG

  12. lovetox

    a server replies with a put httpupload url like this

  13. lovetox


  14. lovetox

    is this allowed?

  15. lovetox

    if i put this into pythons urllib i get a ascii decoding error

  16. Ge0rG

    lovetox: that's an awesome question. there is no default encoding for URI paths beyond ASCII, so the cyrillic there is based on the assumption that UTF8 is supported, which is not guaranteed to work

  17. Ge0rG

    RFC3986 recommends UTF8 though

  18. lovetox

    seems i have to use urllib.parse.quote(url) before i pass it to urlopen

  19. lovetox

    k thanks

  20. Ge0rG

    This is an interesting and valid concern though. Will test it in yaxim now.

  21. lovetox

    but just be aware i could not reproduce this on other servers

  22. lovetox

    or lets say on the servers i use

  23. lovetox

    if i upload such a file the put url would be escaped or what you call it

  24. Ge0rG

    encoded. yeah. Bummer.

  25. Ge0rG

    -version chat.dm.origin.com

  26. Ge0rG

    We should add Google Cloud Printing, League of Legends, EVE and Epic/Fortnite to https://xmpp.org/uses/

  27. jonasw

    Ge0rG, make a pR

  28. jonasw

    Ge0rG, make a PR

  29. Bunneh

    Ge0rG: chat.dm.origin.com can't be reached via XMPP (Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: closed)

  30. Ge0rG

    But they don't quite qualify as one of the five existing categories

  31. Zash

    <stream:error><see-other-host xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams">06d2a70415af764b3.gs.ea.com</see-other-host></stream:error>

  32. Ge0rG

    jonasw: gladly, if we can come up with the right category. It's not quite IM, and I'm not sure "match making" is a good category. Maybe GCP can go into IoT, and the others get their own "Online Games"

  33. Ge0rG

    Games are sexy

  34. jonasw

    while you’re at it, remove the empty realtime web category

  35. Ge0rG

    Oh my f***ing god. I need to change the menu in every single file there.

  36. Ge0rG

    Zash: following that host actually gets me a valid XMPP starttls :>

  37. Ge0rG

    I also wonder how Apple APNS and Goolge GCM ended up in XMPP/Social

  38. nyco


  39. Ge0rG

    test failed

  40. Maranda

    Ge0rG, don't forget Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, Champions Online.

  41. Ge0rG

    Maranda: all of them XMPP based?

  42. Maranda

    They use xmpp for ingame chat like EvE now and did way before EvE online did

  43. Maranda

    (e.g. from 2012 or some such)

  44. Ge0rG

    Maranda: you just volunteered to research player numbers and start year.

  45. Maranda

    Did I? 🤣

  46. Maranda

    STO/CO not many, but Neverwinter has like 16 millions players

  47. Maranda

    EVE no idea

  48. Maranda

    Ge0rG but Cryptic's chat service is shared between CO/STO/NW

  49. Ge0rG

    Maranda: give me five mins to prepare a first PR and then add to it.

  50. Maranda

    (at least for PC, PS4/Xbox no idea if it's the same platform)

  51. Ge0rG

    jonasw: any ideas on this one? -> Writing /usr/src/xmpp.org/output/extensions/index.html CRITICAL: RuntimeError: File /usr/src/xmpp.org/output/extensions/index.html is set to be overridden twice Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/bin/pelican", line 11, in <module>

  52. jonasw

    wat, /usr/src?

  53. jonasw

    in any case, can you show me the diff?

  54. Ge0rG

    jonasw: happens on master.

  55. Ge0rG

    from ./develop_server.sh restart

  56. jonasw


  57. jonasw

    works for me

  58. Ge0rG

    Oh, sorry. Had some non-gitted files in the source tree

  59. Ge0rG walks away ashamed

  60. Maranda


  61. nyco reads the minutes

  62. Guus


  63. Ge0rG

    Oh, the minutes are in?

  64. Ge0rG runs to the mailbox

  65. Guus

    5 minutes to spare! 🙂

  66. Guus

    MattJ, Ralphm, Martin ?

  67. Martin


  68. MattJ


  69. MattJ

    I'm sure it must be someone else's turn to volunteer this time...

  70. Guus

    Thanks for your work, Matt 🙂

  71. Guus

    I'm not seeing Ralph (but am using a new UI)

  72. MattJ

    np, sorry they're late

  73. MattJ

    He's indeed not here since ~15min ago

  74. Guus

    Ok, let's start without him. MattJ, do you want to do the honours?

  75. MattJ

    Heh, sure

  76. Guus

    Cheat sheet here: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  77. MattJ

    0) Roll call

  78. Guus


  79. MattJ

    <-- here

  80. MattJ

    Martin and Guus

  81. MattJ

    and no Ralph, but maybe he'll appear

  82. Martin

    i'm here o/

  83. MattJ

    Oops, sorry :)

  84. Guus

    Guus is here too - I think you ment nyco? 🙂

  85. MattJ

    Anyone for minutes this week?

  86. Guus

    he was here just now.

  87. MattJ

    nyco, ?

  88. nyco

    have read the minutes...

  89. Guus

    I'll do the minutes, if there's no-one from the floor

  90. nyco

    drafting a reply to survey

  91. MattJ

    Anyone from the floor for minutes...?

  92. Guus

    tag, I'm it.

  93. MattJ

    Ok, thanks Guus

  94. MattJ

    Any agenda bashing?

  95. Guus

    not from me.

  96. Martin

    Nothing from me

  97. nyco

    I'm good

  98. MattJ


  99. MattJ

    I don't see any topics for discussion, so...

  100. MattJ

    1) Commitments: Membership survey

  101. MattJ

    No feedback on list so far, I know we had a brief chat about it last week

  102. nyco

    I'm on a reply, I have a few comments, and I had my notes, plus a pointer to: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2905319

  103. MattJ

    I think the next step will be for me to turn it into a Google Form and send it out

  104. MattJ

    Ok nyco, I'll await that

  105. Guus

    (I wasn't aware of more feedback from me being expected)

  106. Martin

    I thought it looked good. Open-ended enough to get a read on what people have issues with, but gives us a good bounding box to begin to understand the membership

  107. MattJ

    That was my aim

  108. MattJ

    Ok, I'll await nyco's feedback and turn it into a form ready for sending

  109. Guus


  110. MattJ

    2) Topics for discussion: Fundraising and financing

  111. MattJ

    Just saw Guus's email on this, so I assume it's in progress

  112. nyco

    Typeform, maybe? or even a chatbot? 😉

  113. MattJ

    Is there anything more to discuss, or shall I kick it into commitments?

  114. Guus

    I'm not against discussing more actions (or something in that mail), but I'm fine with kicking it back, until Peter responds.

  115. nyco

    thinking of latest conversations, I think we do something for more funds

  116. nyco

    with a little effort

  117. nyco

    open an online shops that sells, mugs, T-shirts, stickers, etc.

  118. nyco

    easy, just have to upload logos

  119. nyco

    we earn some money, we do nothing

  120. nyco

    they ship and bill and...

  121. Ge0rG

    need written permission for usage of the Jabber™ trademark though.

  122. Guus

    Well, we do sell goodies IRL during Fosdem, for example - so I'm sure something similar could work

  123. MattJ


  124. MattJ

    nyco, is this something you could work on? (researching sales venues, etc.)

  125. nyco

    gotta try, we don't know, the shop would be open 24/7/365

  126. nyco


  127. Guus

    I'm wondering if we'd actually be making any money from this, but I'm not against giving this a try

  128. nyco

    work done already

  129. nyco

    cost: a few hours

  130. MattJ

    Ok, thanks... can you add a card to Trello?

  131. Guus

    nyco, could you perhaps outline a plan via mail?

  132. MattJ

    So we can track it

  133. nyco

    my estimations: we could do hundreds... of dollars, pounds, euros, but not bitcoins

  134. MattJ

    or email works too for now

  135. nyco


  136. MattJ

    Ok, great

  137. MattJ

    3) Topics for discussion: Executive Officer replacement

  138. MattJ

    This one probably needs Ralph's input too

  139. MattJ

    It's somewhat stalled at the moment, and we need to figure out what we can do to get it moving

  140. MattJ

    or just give up on it

  141. Guus

    We briefly discussed this last week

  142. Guus

    I think we're unsure what the exact purpose of an XO is?

  143. MattJ

    That seems to be the case

  144. Guus

    and therefore, if we have a need for one.

  145. MattJ

    We need one because the Bylaws say so, as I understand it

  146. Guus

    maybe we should invite our previous XO to discuss this with us?

  147. MattJ

    Whether we practically need one is a different matter

  148. Guus

    oh, that's a good reason to have one 🙂

  149. Guus

    "because we must."

  150. MattJ

    If it's just a title with no responsibility, then we probably have a lot more people to choose from

  151. MattJ

    If it has responsibility, we need to document what that is, in practical terms

  152. Guus

    Maybe we should actively start to find out what those responsibilities are.

  153. MattJ

    We should get some info from Peter on this indeed (unless he already said something on that matter... I vaguely recall he may have done)

  154. MattJ

    The last email I could find, he said "I really wasn't doing anything in that role"

  155. Guus

    Martin, would you be willing to dig into this perhaps (looking in archives, talking to Peter), and outline some rough description that we can discuss next week?

  156. Martin

    Yup sure

  157. Guus

    Cool thanks.

  158. MattJ

    Great, thanks Martin

  159. Guus

    Having something tangible (probably misspelled) will help us to put something in action.

  160. MattJ

    End of the agenda...

  161. MattJ

    4) AOB?

  162. nyco


  163. Guus

    no AOB from me.

  164. Martin

    Nothing from me

  165. MattJ

    5) Time of next

  166. MattJ

    +1w as usual

  167. Guus


  168. nyco


  169. Martin

    Fine by mne

  170. Martin


  171. Guus


  172. MattJ

    Meeting closed, gavel banged

  173. MattJ

    Thanks all

  174. nyco

    merci à tous ! 😉

  175. Guus

    MattJ, any particular reason why you sent the minutes to board@?

  176. Guus

    I assumed members@ was preferred.

  177. Guus

    (board@ is not publicly accessible, I think, while these meetings are)

  178. MattJ

    Er, because I wasn't thinking. I'll forward them

  179. MattJ


  180. MattJ


  181. Guus

    ok, I'll continue to send them there then 🙂

  182. Guus

    you made me wonder

  183. Ge0rG

    So I've created an "Online Games" category under XMPP/Uses: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/427

  184. MattJ

    Yay, thanks Ge0rG

  185. Ge0rG

    I'd love to add "Google Cloud Printing" to a Uses list, but the IoT page seems to be a definition of IoT-XMPP and not a "Projects using XMPP for IoT are"

  186. Guus

    Ge0rG: so, change the definition? 🙂

  187. moparisthebest

    or add a Misc category

  188. jonasw

    I’m not sure if this categorization makes sense anyways

  189. Ge0rG

    I think that IoT is a perfect match, and the definition there is actually rather confusing to me

  190. Ge0rG

    Maybe somebody who is actually into XMPP IoT can improve that part.

  191. Ge0rG

    There are other oddities on the webpage: We have posted one security notice about XMPP protocols and implementations: 2014-04-04: Uncontrolled Resource Consumption with Highly-Compressed XMPP Stanzas 2012-08-21: Vulnerability in XMPP Server Dialback Implementations

  192. edhelas

    for the store it would be nice to also sell client related things :)

  193. Ge0rG

    I signle-handedly caused that many CVEs in XMPP software.

  194. edhelas

    like buy a pack of Conversations/Dino/whatever stickers, 50% goes to the XSF

  195. Ge0rG

    edhelas: I could imagine that projects will be interested in keeping most of the revenue from their own merch

  196. edhelas

    well for Movim I'll be fine to do 50%-50%

  197. MattJ

    There may be some benefit to having the XSF promote and manage the store though

  198. Ge0rG

    I don't mind selling Jabber Yak faces without getting a share, but only if we get rid of that ridiculous Jabber™ 500$ fee

  199. edhelas

    depends of the merchandising, for t-shirts it can be 25-75

  200. moparisthebest

    or just get rid of the term Jabber all together!

  201. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: what about getting rid of the term "email"

  202. edhelas

    with a little logo "buy a tshirt, help a poor XSF guy by giving him wat… beer"

  203. Ge0rG

    that inadequately reminds me of that war on terror quote - when have you wan the war on terror, when you have remove the word "terror" from the dictionary?

  204. moparisthebest

    is email owned by evil-corp llc ?

  205. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: no. But this is something we can't change.

  206. Ge0rG

    The call is open for a good new name for what jabber used to be. Ideally accompanied by a large promotion budget.

  207. MattJ

    Ge0rG, I'll add it to the members survey :)

  208. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I'd propose "Jabber™"

  209. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, we can change it by not using the name ever again :)

  210. moparisthebest

    I propose 'XMPP'

  211. jonasw

    XMPP is too unwieldy for end users.

  212. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: let me tell you about Ex-MP pee!

  213. Maranda


  214. moparisthebest

    I've never met anyone who couldn't say xmpp

  215. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: have you met people who couldn't remember it?

  216. moparisthebest

    besides, 99% of people I'd just tell them to install Conversations

  217. jonasw

    moparisthebest, you’re from the US, right? ;-)

  218. Maranda

    I've never met anyone who knew WTF xmpp is...

  219. Maranda

    Point of views ™️

  220. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: "how do I do Conversations on my iPhone?"

  221. moparisthebest

    you throw away your shitty phone, and get an android

  222. MattJ

    My family barely know what I do. Trust me, "I work on this chat thing called Jabber" is received very differently to "I work on this chat thing called XMPP"

  223. moparisthebest

    see? I'm full of solutions

  224. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: reminds me of http://n0ssc.com/posts/540-whats-the-best-iphone-aprs-app

  225. Ge0rG

    MattJ: so "Jabber" rang a bell with your family? Or am I missing the sarcasm tag?

  226. Zash

    Maybe we should just rebrand the whole thing to Jibber

  227. Maranda

    The usual problem with Jabber... ™️

  228. edhelas

    can't wait to start selling muc mugs

  229. Maranda


  230. MattJ

    Ge0rG, no sarcasm. People treat 4-letter acronyms related to computing as something incomprehensible to them, it tends to terminate the conversation

  231. Maranda


  232. jonasw

    can we do better with three letter acronyms? /s

  233. edhelas


  234. Maranda

    But Jabber is still ™️

  235. Ge0rG

    edhelas: a MUC mug with the print "Schrödingers Chat - you don't know if you are in or out until you write a message"

  236. Zash

    "I work on a chat related piece of infrastructure"

  237. Maranda

    Relate all your complaints to that dumb strange phones maker kek

  238. edhelas

    Ge0rG :D but we're working on it, buy the mix-mug, soon released

  239. Maranda

    I wonder on a trademark related question....

  240. Maranda

    The lightbulb logo is trademarked as well by Cisco?

  241. Maranda

    That puzzles me.

  242. Ge0rG

    Maranda: https://www.jabber.org/faq.html#logo

  243. Maranda

    Dank you

  244. Maranda


  245. Zash

    And soon nobody will have any idea what the heck that is supposed to be

  246. Zash

    Better update it to a CFL or LED

  247. Maranda


  248. pep.

    +1 for Jabber without the fee :x

  249. moparisthebest

    I think the fee should be raised to $5,000 or even $50,000

  250. moparisthebest

    just to discourage use of a bad idea

  251. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: you sound like Peter.

  252. Zash

    You sound like you don't understand peoples perception of price tags.

  253. Zash

    More expensive == more better!

  254. Maranda


  255. moparisthebest

    as long as it stops a bad idea from being more widely used I'm fine with any perception

  256. moparisthebest

    the #1 problem is no one can even find the paperwork allowing the XSF to license it

  257. moparisthebest

    peter said he'd look in some drawers

  258. moparisthebest

    but, lets pretend such paperwork does exist for a second

  259. moparisthebest

    XSF must enforce proper usage on it's licensees, and if they do not, cisco can revoke the license to XSF and all sub-licensees within like 2 weeks or whatever

  260. moparisthebest

    does XSF have any lawyers or any way at all to enforce proper usage?

  261. moparisthebest

    I don't think so

  262. moparisthebest

    meaning, if a single sub-licensee misuses it, cisco takes it from everyone and can sue them to oblivion

  263. moparisthebest

    and someone thinks this is a good idea?

  264. moparisthebest


  265. Zash

    Let's just crowdfund a buyout of Cisco.

  266. jonasw

    moparisthebest, so technically you could force that scenario by getting a sublicense and "misbehaving".

  267. moparisthebest

    yep, anyone could, even by accident

  268. Maranda

    I'll check what's left in my pouch

  269. jonasw

    I think by accident the XSF can rectify that.

  270. moparisthebest

    you think? how often does the XSF check?

  271. jonasw

    it doesn’t need to

  272. jonasw

    the paperwork I’ve seen is effective once the XSF takes notice

  273. moparisthebest

    I think it's supposed to actively enforce proper usage

  274. moparisthebest

    the only paperwork I've seen is a promise for future paperwork, none of which has been found yet

  275. Maranda

    Ge0rG you wanted the xmpp adoption start date or the game release date or both?

  276. Ge0rG

    Maranda: when the game deployed XMPP

  277. Ge0rG

    Maranda: with EVE it's 2018

  278. jjrh

    Ge0rG, league of legends uses XMPP https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/chat-service-architecture-protocol

  279. Maranda

    Ge0rG, May 2010 for Cryptic Games (STO and CO at that time, NW was released in 2013)

  280. jjrh

    isn't XMPP built into the Unreal engine?

  281. jjrh

    Maybe included is a better word

  282. jjrh

    oh I see you have League of legends in the list.

  283. Maranda

    Ge0rG, some numbers https://sto.gamepedia.com/Global_Channel_Directory related to channels/rooms (using muc)

  284. Maranda

    Ge0rG, EVE Online has a currently estimated playerbase of 1 million, STO of about 900k (3 millions is PWE numbers), CO of 345k, NW data for PC is about 3 millions. Although PWE asserted NW playerbase in 16 millions for NW (I suppose it could be pooled between PC and consoles)

  285. Maranda

    there you go.

  286. Ge0rG

    Maranda: PR or didnt happen

  287. Maranda

    what am I supposed to PR, and where

  288. Maranda


  289. Ge0rG

    Maranda: follow up to https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/427

  290. Maranda

    Ge0rG, so can I just comment there? :P?

  291. Maranda forkes Ge0rG thing.

  292. Ge0rG

    Maranda: append a patch

  293. Ge0rG

    jjrh: we still need to research EA Origin, among others

  294. Maranda

    Ge0rG, there you go.

  295. Ge0rG

    Maranda: wait, now you PR my PR?

  296. Maranda

    I wasn't supposed to?

  297. Maranda


  298. Ge0rG

    Maranda: I thought you PR against xsf?

  299. Ge0rG

    Maranda: especially as your PR contains some 30 commits

  300. Ge0rG

    let me fix that

  301. Maranda

    Well I didn't think the gaming stuff was already in

  302. Maranda

    and I'm not sure what I did tbh I just forked your repo on github

  303. Maranda

    github did all the rest XD

  304. Maranda

    (aka the other 30 commits)

  305. Ge0rG

    Maranda: yeah, you PRed against ge0rg:master instead of ge0rg:games, but that's ok

  306. Ge0rG

    Maranda: could you reorder them by number of users? Or shall I?

  307. Ge0rG

    I was just on the way out, the garden demands some heavylifting work.

  308. Maranda

    Ge0rG, pft *heavy lifting* :P, ok I'll do.

  309. Maranda

    Ge0rG, ok re-ordered, it's into the pull request

  310. Ge0rG

    Maranda: thanks, I'll push that to xsf

  311. Ge0rG

    Maranda: thanks very much, updated #427; cc jonasw

  312. Maranda

    oh for the love of...

  313. Neustradamus


  314. Maranda

    "Passwords can't be longer than 30 characters" too bad it's 32 already....

  315. Maranda doesn't wanna know.

  316. Maranda just doesn't.

  317. pep.

    https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/appstream/2018-April/000244.html GDPR related

  318. pep.

    Apparently he also wants some kind of inline license agreement thingy

  319. pep.

    https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib/commit/9974127762729c629f84731ea53f40ec0d3c2c24#diff-d98a4241d769c797c07f2b30ae80b53bR60 I'd be interested to know what the ICO thinks about this

  320. Maranda


  321. Maranda


  322. Maranda 's brain segfaults reading that.

  323. Maranda

    (the bit about NAT)

  324. moparisthebest

    I mean it's right in that an IP address does not necessarily represent a single user

  325. moparisthebest

    but it can, and often does, especially with ipv6

  326. pep.

    You can still nat ip6 :/

  327. pep.

    Not saying in arguing in favor

  328. pep.


  329. jjrh

    and a ipv6 address doesn't always mean it's one person or even one computer. I might have many v6 addresses.

  330. Zash

    "It's complicated"

  331. jjrh

    natting ipv6 is like using a vacuum cleaner without the bag attached

  332. jjrh

    https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/track/real_time_communications/ was there only two XMPP talks this year or am I missing something?

  333. Zash

    Does anyone remember me or someone talking about what to do if you block someone who sent you a subscription request?

  334. Zash

    Hm, noone replied to https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030394.html

  335. lovetox

    hm on block remove all open sub requests

  336. Seve/SouL

    `16:38:35 MattJ> My family barely know what I do. Trust me, "I work on this chat thing called Jabber" is received very differently to "I work on this chat thing called XMPP"`

  337. Seve/SouL

    "To jabber" may be something in english and I guess that's one of the reasons people prefer to say Jabber instead of XMPP while speaking in english (apart from being called like that in the past, I know). But in other languages, Jabber is a complete weird word as XMPP is. It's true that Jabber is easy to pronounce but on the other hand, XMPP is called XMPP. It's hard for me tu buy the argument where Jabber is to XMPP what e-mail is to SMTP, IMAP, POP3... because XMPP is not multiple things. It's just XMPP. I feel more comfortable calling it by its name and that's all. It's called XMPP and we have to accept that. One can think of creating a new shiny name, let's say Zimpy, and clients could say 'Zimpy chat client', 'Zimpy compatible', 'Based on the Zimpy network' and such stuff. But then this is just an alias for XMPP, and nothing else. I'm not going to hide, I'm somehow attached to the XMPP term, but I understand the name does not help at all when explaining it to non technical people. I would be open to gather together and try to find a new name that would be good marketing wise, but finding that name is a really difficult task. Names are difficult and is hard to find one that the vast majority of us would agree on.

  338. Seve/SouL

    I'm just quoting you, MattJ, nothing else, peace and love <3.

  339. Ge0rG

    Seve/SouL: except that xmpp is many things. It is IoT, it is cloud printing, it is online game matchmaking, it is messaging

  340. Ge0rG

    Seve/SouL: and Jabber is the federated chat network based on the xmpp protocol

  341. Zash

    And the community.

  342. Ge0rG

    Zash: the what?

  343. Zash


  344. Zash

    Or maybe that's "XSF & co"

  345. Ge0rG

    I wish we had the Jabber software foundation

  346. Zash

    Just Start It

  347. moparisthebest

    Might as well just call it 'Please Sue Me Cisco, LLC'

  348. UsL

    I like XMPP. Jabber for me is the old chat system on that old company..

  349. Zash

    Callit it Zimpy

  350. moparisthebest

    Zash: I could go for that, unless Oracle owns it or something :)

  351. UsL

    XMPP is fresher IMHO

  352. Zash

    Funky Fresh Software Foundation

  353. UsL

    Funky != fresh

  354. UsL

    : )

  355. Ge0rG

    The Jabber term is still very common in parts of the world where the American copyright regime hasn't arrived.

  356. moparisthebest

    So nowhere

  357. UsL

    Cisco and Jabber goes well together. Just like Dinosaur and Dodo does.. While XMPP feels like a fresh continuation. Like Jabber_v2. Or perhaps v4 by now.

  358. Zash


  359. UsL

    Millennium edition

  360. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: you know that map of the world as seen by America? The "here be dragons" area is inhabited by people, but no copyright lawyers.

  361. Neustradamus

    For finish about it, it is XMPP since 2004 :) Protocol and network

  362. Andrew Nenakhov

    Russian junkies just call it Xabber. :-/ Encryption be damned.

  363. Maranda