MarandaGe0rG and sorted the GC1 directed presence stuff now it tracks those too (also for carbons)
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Ge0rGMaranda: what do you do with Carbons differently?
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MarandaNot much, it checked muc whispers looking into the resource session's "joined mucs" table before but that didnt cover GC1, now it'll fall back to the directed bare I added in that case covering it.
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Marandaalso removed a loop so it's a pro point as we
MarandaAs well*
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MarandaGe0rG and outside mucs there's no use I currently see of directed presences as well so it's safe enough to make an assumption
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Ge0rGI don't know what the use case for directed presence was...
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Holger> In general, a client sends directed presence when it wishes to share availability information with an entity that is not subscribed to its presence, typically on a temporary basis. Common uses of directed presence include casual one-to-one chat sessions as described under Section 5.1 and multi-user chat rooms as described in [XEP-0045].
HolgerAnd I've seen IoT people doing directed presence for some reason.
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ZashJingle maybe
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lovetoxjonasw, Ge0rG: did one of you implement that coloring xep? maybe in a python lib that i now just can use 😃?
jonaswlovetox, jclib has the functions
jonaswI also have some stuff in C++
jonaswlovetox, I wanted to make it a standalone lib but never gotten around to do it
jonaswlovetox, jclib doesn’t have a license file, but it’s going to be GPLv3+ or LGPLv3+. you can extract and use the coloring stuff under MIT, Apache 2.0 or 3-clause BSD, whatever pleases you.
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jonaswno guarantee that it’s 100% the XEP as it stands right now, I might’ve some experiment in there
jonaswdouble-check the constants
lovetoxpeople can say about python what they want, but so many people using it and because of it so many libs and code exists is such a huge plus that language architecture details dont really matter
lovetoxyes thanks
jonaswah yes, it’s not what’s in the XEP atm.
lovetoxjonasw, doesnt really matter for me now
Ge0rGjonasw: have a different branch :P
lovetoxi just need something that colors my nicks
jonaswyeah, the difference is minor
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lovetoxah i really have to try now to run a minimal gtk application with aioxmpp
lovetoxi wanted to do this for a long time
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jonaswI had a basic demo somewhere, but it might’ve been lost
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lovetoxif it works with gtk, i definitly plan to try and port gajim to it
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Ge0rGYeah, finally consistent colors!
jonaswneeaaat
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Ge0rGI totally love it.
jonaswlovetox, you might wanna look into jclib instead/in addition
Ge0rGBut maybe I'm an OCD nerd.
jonaswGe0rG, :)
jonaswit’s a bit more high-level than aioxmpp. it’s essentially the non-GUI part of jabbercat
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lovetoxto be honest i just need the low level socket stuff
Ge0rGIt's great that there are four different XMPP libraries for python
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jonaswGe0rG, if lovetox pulls the port off, it’s down to three...
Ge0rGWe should rename XMPP to NIHP
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lovetoxgajim uses nbxmpp only for connection and roster
lovetoxevery other xep is in gajim code implemented
KevSo, five then? :)
lovetox😃
Ge0rGYeah.
jonaswlovetox, ah okay, then it’s like, just use aioxmpp.Client
lovetoxno joke, people asked on the list that gajim should be able to run without gui
KevAt least there's only one Qt/C++ client :)
lovetoxand send events via dbus
lovetoxso they can use it to write gui around it
lovetox😃
Ge0rGKev: because no sane people use C++ today :P
Ge0rGD-Bus.
KevGe0rG: Also, I think there's five, or something.
jonaswlovetox, I thought about that model actually, but I found that it will rarely be sufficient.
Ge0rGIsn't D-Bus similar to XMPP, conceptually?
Ge0rGWasn't there some discussion of that failed idea in the context of telepathy?
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jonaswGe0rG, pep., winfried, in case you missed it: https://www.earth.li/mailman/listinfo/gdpr-discuss
Ge0rGWhere the maintainer complained in public how it was a horrible idea to have a local generic abstraction of IM services
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pep.Ge0rG, yeah I pasted that here a while back if you want to look at your logs
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pep.jonasw, saw it! thanks. Not sure if we should start something there already?
pep.Maybe just drop a word that we're having a look at it in public
jonaswstpeter already sent two mails there
pep.Ah ok
jonaswyeah I thought about that too
jonaswstpeters mail was not directly related to our discussions though
AnuI always felt many architectural decisions like this were influenced by x. Back in the day everything was slow when rendering remotely so no one would notice
Ge0rGpep.: great, thanks
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jonaswYou lose a huge amount by not being able to have your protocol code in
the same process as the UI, unless you write an API which basically _is_
your protocol, or an API which is the UI, but the bigger the gap between
the two, the more developers fall into that pit and don't get any UI or
protocol work done. :)
jonaswthis is so true
jonaswwhenever I thought about whether it’s somehow reasonable to separate jabbercat in multiple processes (for whatever gain, I had various insane ideas), I ended up with excatly that: my IPC protocol would’ve been essentially XMPP•
ZashThis was what Jabber was originally designed for after all :)
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Ge0rGjonasw: I've experienced that the hard way with yaxim as well. The foundation was written by two CS students who overengineered everything.
AnuYup, this was how Monal on Mac developed too. There was a minor justification 10 years ago because I also had Oscar but it just started replicating stuff
AnuI think convemourally ui logic should be separate makes sense
Ge0rGNine years later, I finally added a shortcut from the UI through the service, data provider into the XMPP implementation
jonaswif anything, jabbercat will ship/be able to directly interface with a local biboumi at some point.
Ge0rGvia XMPP or via C++ API calls?
AnuDbus sounds like mvc taken to a logical extreme :) . Just ditch the view
Ge0rGJust do everything ith XMPP Data Forms.
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jonaswGe0rG, XMPP
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jonaswGe0rG, when I have a massive surplus of energy next, I want to implement the server-side of the Component protocol in aioxmpp for an experiment.
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lovetoxI wonder what happend to Link Mauve server jingle component
lovetoxbtw Link Mauve seems absent for a while now
moparisthebestjonasw, is it going to be useable from other clients or only locally?
jonaswmoparisthebest, locally
jonaswobviously
jonaswwe don’t have a way to host components in clients.
moparisthebestnot if you used my amazing echo-self :P
jonaswthat’s a crude hack which I won’t support.
moparisthebestyes, because breaking carbons/mam is superior
moparisthebest...
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Ge0rGjonasw: you might want to make a separate lib sor server things
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jonaswGe0rG, it’s not meant to be a server thing
jonaswit’s meant to be a shim wrapper to make use of components locally. I don’t even know if that’ll work.
jonaswI don’t intend to get into server business.
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pep.lovetox: he's busy with the strikes in France :p
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pep.goffi also has a jingle component implementation btw
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Ge0rGwinfried: I just realized that http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org redirects to your homepage. I'd really love that page to re-appear again, is that feasible?
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Maranda😁
MarandaWe shall make an e2ee sticker with it
Ge0rGI was linking to the archive.org cache, but it's down today.
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winfriedGe0rG: maybe in a bit different form: I don't want to go through the hassle of maintaining a WordPress site for just two static pages again....
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moparisthebestwinfried, wget the page from archive.org, put it at that path?
MattJIt's just text, any simple HTML page would suffice
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moparisthebestwhile we are on the subject, Ge0rG always links it as some type of argument against e2e, can anyone explain that to me?
moparisthebestthe only argument I can glean from it is something like "e2e doesn't protect against everything, so why bother" which is dumb
moparisthebestor "sometimes software has bugs, so why bother" in which case why are we here
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SamWhitedheh, I'd forgotten about that; I didn't realize that was your site winfried, well done
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Ge0rGYeah, kudos for it
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moparisthebestso what am I missing? any takers on explaining it to me? :)
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winfriedmoparisthebest: working on restoring it ;-)
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moparisthebestwinfried, well I've read them both from https://web.archive.org/web/20110501005631/http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org/ but I still must be missing the point
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winfried moparisthebest I would like grasp where you are missing the point
moparisthebestwinfried, I'm only seeing 2 possible arguments either "e2e doesn't protect against everything, so why bother" or "sometimes software has bugs, so why bother"
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winfriedThe point I had in mind while setting it up is: we are suggesting a sense of security by the way we talk about technology, but we can't guarantee that
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MarandaWhich is not hard at all to understand..
moparisthebestwell I completely understand and agree with that
winfriedI never wanted to imply 'why bother' btw, just be very careful
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moparisthebestthe only way I've seen people *use* the site before is in the context of "e2e is a complete waste, don't bother, see http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org/"
moparisthebestwhich is what I was disagreeing with
winfriedand e2e: I still want to write a nasty rant against e2e :-D
ZashHmmmm what?
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winfriedthealiceandbobsuicide.org can be used against e2e, as much as against any security technology that is presented as THE solution for every problem
moparisthebestright, I just think it needs to be clear what a particular technology does/protects against, and what it does not
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winfriedmoparisthebest: yes, and we need to aware of issues created by the platform, (human) circumstances etc. I have literally spend days on fairs where companies were selling boxes that were welded shut with the promise that if you put them in your network, your network is save. Right...
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winfriedhttps://www.tilanus.com/#weblog_pantsdown
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moparisthebestwinfried, yea that's just the misconception that closed/black box means secure, when the opposite is true
moparisthebestI saw one not too long ago, promised secure email, ended up being a raspberry pi glued inside a fancy case with numerous security flaws, can't find it now...
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winfrieda Dutch company sold pgp-phones. All secret keys were generated and stored on a server in Canada. All the police had to do, was to seize that server and they could catch tens of heavy criminals
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moparisthebestha I found it winfried https://www.nomx.com/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/punching-holes-in-nomx-the-worlds-most-secure-communications-protocol/
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winfriedmoparisthebest: yeah, great story too!
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Ge0rGLike the story of the NSA compromising Gemalto to obtain the secret keys of all SIM cards.
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moparisthebestand this is why, pre-2013 people could go "this is make believe, you are protecting against a non-existant threat"
moparisthebestthen 2013 happened and there is proof it's a thing that happens daily
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Marandafunny, this code was so stupidly broken yet it *worked*
Marandais in one of those "gawd" moments.
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Maranda(... and obviously fixing something else broken it.)
Maranda(... and obviously fixing something else borked it.)