XSF Discussion - 2018-04-19

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  329. jonasw Holger, I have a hard time following the argument. What’s wrong with having a http_upload_hmac_secret: "…" option in the cluster configuration shared by all nodes?
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  331. jonasw just like web services have a CSRF secret or something. I don’t see any difference. unless you want to have different quotas per-user
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  420. Holger jonasw: Nothing wrong with it.
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  423. jonasw so that would do the trick as hmac(cluster_wide_key, jid) for dirnames?
  424. Holger Yes sure.
  425. Holger There's no "argument" besides it solves an issue I didn't try to solve.
  426. Holger If your goal is anonymous file sharing, HTTP upload is the wrong tool I think.
  427. Holger That said, I'd be fine with adding such an option as soon as there's any demand outside this room 🙂
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  430. jonasw hah
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  497. MattJ Guus, ralphm: you guys both still up for the board meeting later?
  498. Guus MattJ: I am available.
  499. Ge0rG Finally a vote to abolish Pidgin?!
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  501. MattJ I'm suddenly ill, I can't attend :P
  502. MattJ Avian flu, probably
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  601. moparisthebest daniel, SamWhited look google thinks self destructing emails is a good idea too https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/13/17233504/gmail-design-confidential-mode-feature ...
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  649. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  650. ralphm T-7min
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  659. ralphm bangs gavel
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  662. ralphm 0. Welcome and Agenda
  663. ralphm Who do we have?
  664. Guus hi
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  668. Guus Nyco and Martin apologized, MattJ probably responds after this ping.
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  670. MattJ Hey
  671. Guus see? 🙂
  672. jonasw as it has been foretold.
  673. Ge0rG impressive :)
  674. MattJ :)
  675. ralphm wow
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  677. ralphm Any new things not in Trello?
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  679. Ge0rG The Pidgin vote.
  680. Guus Is that a board issue?
  681. ralphm I don't know what that means. Ge0rG is this a serious topic?
  682. MattJ I think Board are being asked to resolve a difference of opinion, in summary
  683. Ge0rG ralphm: semi-serious, it's about https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/425 and whether we want Pidgin on the list of XSF-approved XMPP clients
  684. ralphm I'll add it to the agenda
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  688. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  689. ralphm Who?
  690. Guus (not me, this time)
  691. Guus (also. did I forget to do it last time?)
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  694. jonasw (can’t promise anything (like, not leaving in the middle of the meeting for an hour or two), so won’t volunteer)
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  697. ralphm We're done at 14:00 UTC
  698. jonasw (I’m aware. that doesn’t change it unfortunately :()
  699. ralphm I'm going ahead hoping somebody does this, even retroactively
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  701. MattJ I'll do it
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  703. ralphm 2. Topics for decisions
  704. ralphm Well, I guess we have the PidGin item
  705. ralphm Can somebody give a summary?
  706. jonasw ralphm, somebody tried to renew the listing for pidgin on the client list, and some people raised voice against it being listed there.
  707. jonasw for compatibility reasons
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  709. ralphm I don't think this list has ever been a Board topic before
  710. jonasw it has.
  711. Ge0rG the intention of the new software listing rules was to rule out unmaintained software and software where the developers don't care about the listing. There is a very implicit requirement of project members submitting the item.
  712. jonasw I’m pretty sure that it was discussed by board when the renewal-policy was introduced.
  713. Ge0rG It was indeed. Roughly a year ago.
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  715. ralphm I mean we didn't make decisions on the content of the list
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  717. MattJ It was a definite shift in the purpose of the list though
  718. Ge0rG I don't know if #425 was created by a Pidgin project member, and technically there _was_ a new Pidgin release, so it's not unmaintained. But everybody agrees that it's a horrible XMPP client and maybe even that it's damaging XMPP's reputation
  719. MattJ What we had before was an extremely long directory of every XMPP (and Jabber) software ever written
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  721. MattJ and we agreed to introduce changes to ensure the list is more current, by requiring projects to re-list periodically
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  723. Guus Without enforcing a ruling, perhaps board can offer an opinion?
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  725. Guus would that suffice?
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  727. ralphm Who maintains the list?
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  729. Kev From the peanut gallery, I think if this is a Pidgin person asking for it to be listed, it should be listed, otherwise not.
  730. jonasw whoever has power over the merge button, taht’s at least guus and me.
  731. Guus whoever has commit rights.
  732. Guus I'm not sure if we have a defined WT for website maintenance.
  733. Ge0rG Kev: formally, you are right. But IMVHO this is also a subjective issue of whether we want to serve our community well.
  734. Kev I agree, but I think we either have to curate the list, or not curate the list, not having uncurated except for one excluded project.
  735. Guus Answering the peanut gallery: I'd not be opposed listing software even if it was asking to be listed by end-users, instead of developers.
  736. Guus I would, however, not oppose a semi-objective "compatibility" rating for each of our listings - if it's not to detailed.
  737. Ge0rG Kev: as it is right now, this list looks like the officially endorsed clients™, and I'm not sure we really want to endorse every client that applies for the list.
  738. MattJ Ge0rG, I share your opinion that Pidgin's current situation is not helping us, but I don't think we've actually made that decision to make the lists "only software recommended by the XSF"
  739. Ge0rG On the other hand we don't have a proper way to objectively describe client quality
  740. MattJ and that's a difficult subject that has never been solved in the years we've been discussing it
  741. Ge0rG MattJ: I'm talking about the impression to new users, not about our internal bureaucracy.
  742. Zash has left
  743. Ge0rG I'm well aware that my counter-point of the PR (probably) not originating from a Pidgin developer is just a fig-leaf excuse to not have it listed.
  744. Guus I think it is useful for people to know that Pidgin can do XMPP (even if its implementation is crappy, at best).
  745. Kev I think the best objective measure we have at the moment is "Has the project itself asked to be listed".
  746. Ge0rG Guus: people who already use Pidgin are probably aware of that. Do you want people who are learning about XMPP to end up with Pidgin, though?
  747. Kev If the project itself doesn't care to list itself as an XMPP client, that suggests to me that it's better off not listed.
  748. alexis has left
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  751. Ge0rG Kev: I think (hope) this is uncontroversial.
  752. Ge0rG OTOH, Guus disagreed earlier today.
  753. Kev Ge0rG: Guus was disagreeing :)
  754. ralphm I have to agree that what Kev said is the only objective thing we have
  755. Ge0rG short of verifying the Compliance Suite 2018 compatibility.
  756. Ge0rG But if we enforce that, we will end up with a _very_ _short_ list.
  757. ralphm And I might not like Pidgin, but that's subjective. If you want objective, you need to say: all listings have to comply with something, like the Compliance Suite. I don't think we did that before.
  758. MattJ Ok, so I think we need to make a decision on "project members only" or "anyone"
  759. Kev We did, FWIW.
  760. MattJ Kev, in the past you mean?
  761. Kev At the Summit where this policy was created.
  762. Kev And it was Project Members Only.
  763. ralphm Is darkpsy3934 a project member?
  764. Ge0rG in that case we should make it more explicit in the README.
  765. Guus I don't recall (not saying it's not true), but I certainly do not enforce that.
  766. andy has left
  767. MattJ Kev, defining project members is tricky for FOSS
  768. Guus (as I don't know how to enforce that)
  769. MattJ commit access? maintains the documentation? Non-coding community manager?
  770. Ge0rG MattJ: it's tricky, but something like "does regular contributions and can influence (the other) developers" would be a good start.
  771. Ge0rG MattJ: once we get a hold on somebody who cares and can do that, we can shame them into implementing the most basic interop things. Like the 8-years-pending Carbons support.
  772. MattJ I think we need to separate the Pidgin situation from this :)
  773. MattJ If we're not setting a baseline technical requirement, Pidgin qualifies
  774. Ge0rG MattJ: that was just a figurative example.
  775. alexis has left
  776. MattJ and I assume they have at least 1 active team member, who will ultimately ask us to list the project
  777. Guus I think we'd best not add any complexity to that adding-things-to-the-list thing.
  778. alexis has joined
  779. ralphm MattJ: I agree
  780. MattJ So the question is simply what our requirements are in general
  781. ralphm I understand Ge0rG's concern, and probably agree that I'd like Pidgin to do better, but I don't see enough reason to reject this request.
  782. Dave Cridland Well. 1) Are there any requirements on the software listed. 2) Are there any requirements on the person listing.
  783. Ge0rG ralphm: Pidgin has failed to do better for a very long time now.
  784. ralphm I'd prefer having a list of clients that at least one person cares about, over an overengineered process.
  785. Guus ralphm, that's the gist of what I'm thinking too.
  786. ralphm AFAIK the only requirement is 'somebody asks for inclusion at least once a year'
  787. Ge0rG ralphm: having a software listed on that page is (to an outsider) equivalent to us, the XMPP organization, endorsing its usage.
  788. Dave Cridland ralphm, Could I submit bash?
  789. Ge0rG Dave Cridland: ITYM openssl s_client
  790. Dave Cridland ralphm, Could Donald Trump submit the White House Website?
  791. alexis has left
  792. ralphm yes
  793. Guus Dave, you could submit it, but I (as someone who has the ability to merge the request) would reject it
  794. alexis has joined
  795. Dave Cridland Guus, On what grounds?
  796. Ge0rG Guus: on what grounds?
  797. Guus on my semi-objective opinion that it's not an XMPP client or server.
  798. Dave Cridland Guus, Because you're telling me now there's a line. I'd like to know what that line is.
  799. Ge0rG Guus: it fulfills the technical requirements.
  800. ralphm Dave Cridland: please suggest an alternative
  801. Guus Dave: I've previously not accepted PRs for projects that were silos.
  802. Guus (xmpp based silos, but silos)
  803. Ge0rG ralphm: "a project member submitting the project to indicate that they care about XMPP"
  804. Guus there's a degree of subjectivity in there - and I'm fine with that.
  805. Dave Cridland ralphm, I'm trying to find what the current policy is, before suggesting a new policy that differs.
  806. ralphm TBH, an XMPP client is something that implements XMPP IM
  807. jjrh has left
  808. Guus as a point of order: I can't overrun this meeting. We should conclude this, or resume next week.
  809. ralphm We have no objective requirements on UI
  810. Ge0rG ralphm: so a text window where you enter XML qualifies?
  811. ralphm Dave Cridland: I think the current policy is: somebody can submit an XMPP Client (whatever that means) once a year, and it would be included.
  812. MattJ I think this discussion isn't very useful right now
  813. MattJ Pidgin is no doubt an XMPP client
  814. Kev If the criterion is "Person with website commit access gets to choose whether it's listed or not", then we should say that. I don't think it's a good policy, but at least we'd be stating it, and it's different from what we've stated before.
  815. ralphm Ge0rG: I want to note that compliance suites also have no such requirements
  816. Dave Cridland Kev, +1
  817. alexis has left
  818. Ge0rG > To achieve this, the XSF Board has decided that all implementations have to reapply once per year, to ensure that they are still actively maintained and that the listed info is accurate.
  819. Ge0rG This is from my mail to jdev@, Thu, 23 Mar 2017
  820. ralphm I think all of this work is best effort and there is no completely definitive answer. Some person is going to accept or reject and then maybe somebody else has opinions later
  821. Kev ralphm: Then just go with my suggestion above.
  822. MattJ I propose that we currently vote on whether to accept this PR. If someone objects, state why so we can resolve it for next time
  823. Kev It is clear. Not good, I think, but clear.
  824. jjrh has left
  825. Guus Kev, where 'website' is our website, not the project applying, you mean?
  826. Kev Yes.
  827. ralphm MattJ: but I don't want to have to vote on this every time.
  828. Kev If we're being arbitrary about it, it is best to be explicit that we're arbitrary about it.
  829. MattJ Agreed, neither do I - but what we decide ultimately sets a precedent and we can document it
  830. Kev Rather than pretending we have one rule, and acting on another.
  831. Guus Kev: I don't agree that it's needed to be explicit about that (don't mind to much either)
  832. Kev I'm vanishing now anyway.
  833. ralphm In that case, I move we accept this request to add Pidgin on the grounds that it is an implementation and somebody wants it added for another year
  834. Guus I think we're somewhat overcomplicating a proces that has worked pretty well so far
  835. alexis has joined
  836. Guus it's jsut this Pidgin thing that now acts up, which is understandable.
  837. Valerian has joined
  838. Guus ralphm: +1
  839. jjrh has left
  840. Guus also, I need to be going. Can stick aournd for a couple more minutes at best.
  841. MattJ I'm -1, because I think we should limit submissions to people affiliated with the project to ensure accuracy of the submitted data
  842. alexis has left
  843. MattJ and it's not clear that this person is affiliated in any way, other than as a user
  844. alexis has joined
  845. Guus mattj, the person merging assures accuracy.
  846. Guus (at least, I check if the name / website exists, and that's pretty much it)
  847. MattJ If all the data is trivially verifiable, then I'd be fine with that
  848. Guus "all the data" is just the name and link to the project site
  849. moparisthebest has left
  850. Ge0rG I still think that this is a huge disservice to our community.
  851. MattJ Ok, then I'm +1
  852. Guus Ge0rG, I hear you, but I disagree.
  853. Holger FWIW, I would think Compliance Suite compatibility would be a good criterion. The resulting list will be short because there isn't many good clients, but I don't see how it helps the end user to make it longer by filling it up with not so good clients.
  854. Ge0rG Holger: it could end up with Conversations as the only client.
  855. Guus Ralphm, can we conclude the meeting please? 🙂
  856. MattJ I think as a separate task, we should add a field for latest supported complaince suite
  857. ralphm yes
  858. MattJ But that's for another day
  859. Holger Ge0rG: I'm not sure that's true. If it is, so be it.
  860. ralphm 3. AOB
  861. Guus MattJ: some form of conformance should be added, yes. Not sure if it needs to be compliance suite or not.
  862. Ge0rG Guus: it's the most logical one.
  863. ralphm nothing today
  864. ralphm 4. Date of Next
  865. ralphm +1W
  866. Guus (no aob for me)
  867. Guus +1w wfm
  868. MattJ wfm++
  869. ralphm 5. Close
  870. ralphm Thanks all
  871. dwd has left
  872. ralphm bangs gavel
  873. MattJ Thanks ralphm
  874. Guus thank you, and goodbye
  875. Ge0rG Thanks everyone.
  876. Holger Maybe the Compliance Suite or the referenced XEPs need fixing if nobody is able to implement it.
  877. Holger Ge0rG: But doesn't Gajim also meet it? And maybe even ChatSecure these days?
  878. Holger Maybe also JSXC and/or Movim ...
  879. moparisthebest I would also like to see License listed there
  880. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  881. alexis has left
  882. Ge0rG moparisthebest: how is that relevant?
  883. Holger I'd like to see programming language :-)
  884. moparisthebest Ge0rG, so you can quickly rule out crap you can't use :)
  885. Ge0rG I'd like to see a commit graph of the last 365 days.
  886. alexis has joined
  887. Ge0rG moparisthebest: crap and license are completely orthogonal
  888. moparisthebest the last entry for example uses some custom license which makes it worthless
  889. moparisthebest 'you can look, but not touch'
  890. Ge0rG moparisthebest: people who care about software licenses are typically sufficiently competent to obtain that information on their own.
  891. moparisthebest well sure, you can search each individual website for such info, but it's time consuming and annoying
  892. Holger moparisthebest: How much time have you spent searching XMPP client web sites for licensing ingo?
  893. Holger info even
  894. moparisthebest I think if authors have to submit the info, it'd be a good chance for them to put the license
  895. Ge0rG moparisthebest: the alternative is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_clients
  896. moparisthebest Holger, wasted a few minutes on the last one :)
  897. Ge0rG moparisthebest: it would be good to have it in the JSON, but not in the rendering.
  898. Ge0rG moparisthebest: "a few minutes" is not a valid reason.
  899. alexis has left
  900. moparisthebest oh well that'd be fine with me too Ge0rG , just as long as it existed in an easy to find/standard way I think that'd be excellent
  901. Holger Of course now you made me curious about the Zom license.
  902. alexis has joined
  903. Ge0rG moparisthebest: make a PR to extend the JSON format.
  904. Ge0rG moparisthebest: also add an icon field while you are at it ;)
  905. Holger And programming language!!
  906. MattJ I'd much rather move to the model we've discussed many times, where projects host this info themselves in some standard format
  907. MattJ But guess what, it always comes down to a JSON vs. XML debate :)
  908. moparisthebest maybe a compromise could be made on YAML or TOML or something :P
  909. moparisthebest that way *no one* is happy
  910. MattJ Link Mauve posted some concrete proposals to the list a while back
  911. Holger But then there's a nice project that fails to do this ...
  912. Ge0rG Holger: yaxim doesn't have XEP-0368 (failing Core Client), avatars/vcard (failing IM Core Client), and push (failing Mobile Advanced Client).
  913. MattJ and they don't get listed, poor them. They're probably not a nice project :)
  914. daniel has left
  915. Holger Ge0rG: Then that's either a good reason not to list it or there's something wrong with the Suite.
  916. Ge0rG Holger: or both.
  917. rtq3 has joined
  918. Holger Yes :-)
  919. Ge0rG Holger: of these I consider only MAM as mission-critical. But I wasn't able to convince the XEP author.
  920. Ge0rG wait, MAM isn't even part of my list because it's Advanced IM
  921. alexis has left
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  923. Holger 0368 seems totally optional to me. For the others I dunno.
  924. Ge0rG Holger: I have the highly controversial opinion that ensuring reliable message delivery is the most important task of an XMPP based IM solution.
  925. moparisthebest it looks like it says TLS is required, and that you could get it by implementing either 368 or STARTTLS
  926. Holger But I have no idea what the purpose of a Compliance Suite might be if it doesn't even work as a criterion for recommendable XMPP software.
  927. moparisthebest unless I read it wrong?
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  929. Ge0rG moparisthebest: by that logic one could implement RFC 7622 instead of 6120 and be compliant.
  930. alexis has left
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  932. moparisthebest that is how it's worded isn't it?
  933. moparisthebest the feature is 'TLS' and under Providers it lists: RFC 7590 [4], SRV records for XMPP over TLS (XEP-0368) [5] [6]
  934. Ge0rG moparisthebest: there is no explicit wording on that at all.
  935. moparisthebest https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0387.html#core
  936. Ge0rG moparisthebest: I think the XSF is looking for a volunteer to make next year's Compliance Suite.
  937. moparisthebest A feature is considered supported if all comma separated feature providers listed in the "Providers" column are implemented (unless otherwise noted).
  938. moparisthebest ah I missed that, so looks like 368 is required
  939. Chobbes has joined
  940. moparisthebest Ge0rG, hehe if I wrote it it'd be pretty simple "Do you implement everything Conversations does? If so, compliant, if not, you suck."
  941. moparisthebest just joking :)
  942. Alex has joined
  943. MattJ ...or are you?
  944. MattJ (thinking of the aesgcm discussion)
  945. Ge0rG moparisthebest: yes, that's the Conversations Protocol Compliance Suite.
  946. jonasw FWIW: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/425#issuecomment-382759398
  947. goffi has left
  948. jonasw (and, as it was foretold, I was dragged away from board meeting mid-meeting)
  949. Ge0rG jonasw: apparently, all present board members voted to approve that PR.
  950. jonasw Ge0rG, my understanding was under the condition of that we can verify project membership.
  951. Ge0rG jonasw: I think this is not what was voted in the end.
  952. jonasw but I might0ve misread
  953. MattJ I guess I should write up the minutes now :)
  954. jonasw right
  955. jonasw I misread
  956. jonasw fixing
  957. jonasw done
  958. Maranda has left
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  961. Ge0rG starts typing resignation letter.
  962. jonasw mine? darn, I just made an incorrect comment. no need to write my resignation for me :<
  963. Dave Cridland Ge0rG, What are you resigning from?
  964. Ge0rG jonasw: no, it's not a termination letter.
  965. jonasw Ge0rG, I know. you could still write that letter, lay it in front of me, say "sign it" and hold a gun next to my head though :)
  966. Ge0rG Dave Cridland: I haven't decided yet. I'm just feeling a strong wave of resignation.
  967. j.r has joined
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  970. Holger TBH I'm not sure this list is all that important anyway, these days :-) It's probably way more important to have a good ranking in app store search results.
  971. alexis has joined
  972. Ge0rG Holger: I'm sure desktop users will share your view.
  973. Holger There are no desktop users.
  974. Ge0rG The cake is a lie?
  975. jonasw Ge0rG, you are aware that all major desktop platforms have appstores by now?
  976. Holger was going to link the Windows App store :-)
  977. lumi has left
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  979. jonasw look at Ubuntu (and derivates) (and I’m not sure even that counts in as major), look at Mac OS, look at Windows.
  980. Steve Kille has left
  981. Ge0rG the scary thing is, I just opened the Windows store and it greeted me with my name.
  982. Ge0rG jonasw: I thought the Windows store was Win10 only?
  983. jonasw Ge0rG, is there any other windows in use anymore?
  984. Ge0rG I've heard Win7 is still a thing.
  985. rion has left
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  987. Maranda It's called Microsoft Store now. GET IT RIGHT.
  988. alexis has left
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  990. Holger So what's the policy regarding that web site list now? I've re-read the backlog and don't get it.
  991. Ge0rG Maranda: tell me about Android Market.
  992. Maranda Ge0rG, :P
  993. Ge0rG Holger: anything that is deemed an xmpp client by the editors is good to go.
  994. Ge0rG apparently, it needs to support rfc6120 to pass.
  995. jonasw yeah, anything which can make an appearance which convinces the merger that it’s an XMPP software thing is good.
  996. jonasw yeah, anything which can make an appearance which convinces the merger that it’s an XMPP software thing is good enough.
  997. moul has left
  998. Holger So like before?
  999. Ge0rG considers writing a shell script that opens PRs for each of aioxmpp/examples/*.py
  1000. Holger A complete list of all existing XMPP software?
  1001. jonasw Holger, except that people need to go through the effort of renewing
  1002. Ge0rG Holger: a list of all xmpp software somebody submits once a year
  1003. Holger Ah.
  1004. jonasw Ge0rG, oh yes, I can’t wait for Roster List TUI 1.0 to appear there!
  1005. jonasw to be fair, the adhoc_browser example could actually be useful.
  1006. Ge0rG jonasw: I'm much more excited about quickstart_serve_software_version.py!
  1007. Holger I would rule out that you end up with a useful list that way :-) But whatever.
  1008. marmistrz has joined
  1009. Ge0rG Holger: it's as good as any arbitrary list!
  1010. jonasw Holger, the idea was that we can tighten the constraints once we have the renewal thing
  1011. Ge0rG I mean, at least we've averted the listing of /bin/bash!
  1012. jonasw reminds me to build the xmpp client in sed
  1013. Ge0rG I still think that the initial rule of "submitted by a developer" that was created by last year's board is much better. But what do I know.
  1014. jonasw at least a simple echo bot should be doable
  1015. jonasw and then I’m gonna release that as GPLv3 XMPP "library" for sed :>
  1016. Ge0rG jonasw: it needs a home page and a shiny name.
  1017. jonasw Ge0rG, github repository is fine
  1018. jonasw aioxmpp doesn’ have a fancy homepage either
  1019. Ge0rG jonasw: make it a proper client. With a Jabber™ trademark license.
  1020. alexis has left
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  1022. jonasw EBUSY
  1023. jonasw with that other proper client and helllota different stuff
  1024. SamWhited has left
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  1026. Maranda https://upload.lightwitch.org/share/dafff9ca-2651-4a31-a578-d95d6781877f/KFE5mlBPTTqdf9IdE9Yzow.gif
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  1031. pep. > jonasw> reminds me to build the xmpp client in sed wat?
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  1033. jonasw pep., sed is turing complete after all.
  1034. jonasw the only issue might be the line-orientedness maybe, but a pipe with xml2 as suggested by Zash might fix that
  1035. pep. I see. It makes a lot more sense now, I would definitely approve this
  1036. marc has joined
  1037. jonasw I sense sarcasm.
  1038. Maranda A mere sensation ignore it
  1039. Zash xev | sed | nc | xml2 | sed | xdotool
  1040. jonasw Zash, oh my god.
  1041. jonasw oh my god.
  1042. Zash praise golb
  1043. MattJ https://github.com/uuner/sedtris
  1044. jonasw dear glob, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. *signs cross*
  1045. intosi Reminds me of when a colleague aeons back decided that it was easier to write a partial XML parser in AWK than to use a library and create a binary program.
  1046. nyco has left
  1047. Maranda Huhu
  1048. jonasw oh my god.
  1049. jonasw I’m playing tetris in a sed interpreter.
  1050. jonasw and it’s colourful
  1051. marmistrz has joined
  1052. Maranda I wonder if there's a sed pinball version
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  1056. pep. jonasw, I did as well!
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  1059. jonasw pep., except that I’m 100% serious :)
  1060. jonasw i really want to do an echo-bot in sed
  1061. jonasw just becasue it should be possible and to keep my brain from becoming too normal
  1062. pep. hmm
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