XSF Discussion - 2018-04-19


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  329. jonasw

    Holger, I have a hard time following the argument. What’s wrong with having a http_upload_hmac_secret: "…" option in the cluster configuration shared by all nodes?

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  331. jonasw

    just like web services have a CSRF secret or something. I don’t see any difference. unless you want to have different quotas per-user

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  420. Holger

    jonasw: Nothing wrong with it.

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  423. jonasw

    so that would do the trick as hmac(cluster_wide_key, jid) for dirnames?

  424. Holger

    Yes sure.

  425. Holger

    There's no "argument" besides it solves an issue I didn't try to solve.

  426. Holger

    If your goal is anonymous file sharing, HTTP upload is the wrong tool I think.

  427. Holger

    That said, I'd be fine with adding such an option as soon as there's any demand outside this room 🙂

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  430. jonasw

    hah

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  497. MattJ

    Guus, ralphm: you guys both still up for the board meeting later?

  498. Guus

    MattJ: I am available.

  499. Ge0rG

    Finally a vote to abolish Pidgin?!

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  501. MattJ

    I'm suddenly ill, I can't attend :P

  502. MattJ

    Avian flu, probably

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  601. moparisthebest

    daniel, SamWhited look google thinks self destructing emails is a good idea too https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/13/17233504/gmail-design-confidential-mode-feature ...

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  649. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  650. ralphm

    T-7min

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  659. ralphm bangs gavel

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  662. ralphm

    0. Welcome and Agenda

  663. ralphm

    Who do we have?

  664. Guus

    hi

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  668. Guus

    Nyco and Martin apologized, MattJ probably responds after this ping.

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  670. MattJ

    Hey

  671. Guus

    see? 🙂

  672. jonasw

    as it has been foretold.

  673. Ge0rG

    impressive :)

  674. MattJ

    :)

  675. ralphm

    wow

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  677. ralphm

    Any new things not in Trello?

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  679. Ge0rG

    The Pidgin vote.

  680. Guus

    Is that a board issue?

  681. ralphm

    I don't know what that means. Ge0rG is this a serious topic?

  682. MattJ

    I think Board are being asked to resolve a difference of opinion, in summary

  683. Ge0rG

    ralphm: semi-serious, it's about https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/425 and whether we want Pidgin on the list of XSF-approved XMPP clients

  684. ralphm

    I'll add it to the agenda

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  688. ralphm

    1. Minute taker

  689. ralphm

    Who?

  690. Guus

    (not me, this time)

  691. Guus

    (also. did I forget to do it last time?)

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  694. jonasw

    (can’t promise anything (like, not leaving in the middle of the meeting for an hour or two), so won’t volunteer)

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  697. ralphm

    We're done at 14:00 UTC

  698. jonasw

    (I’m aware. that doesn’t change it unfortunately :()

  699. ralphm

    I'm going ahead hoping somebody does this, even retroactively

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  701. MattJ

    I'll do it

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  703. ralphm

    2. Topics for decisions

  704. ralphm

    Well, I guess we have the PidGin item

  705. ralphm

    Can somebody give a summary?

  706. jonasw

    ralphm, somebody tried to renew the listing for pidgin on the client list, and some people raised voice against it being listed there.

  707. jonasw

    for compatibility reasons

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  709. ralphm

    I don't think this list has ever been a Board topic before

  710. jonasw

    it has.

  711. Ge0rG

    the intention of the new software listing rules was to rule out unmaintained software and software where the developers don't care about the listing. There is a very implicit requirement of project members submitting the item.

  712. jonasw

    I’m pretty sure that it was discussed by board when the renewal-policy was introduced.

  713. Ge0rG

    It was indeed. Roughly a year ago.

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  715. ralphm

    I mean we didn't make decisions on the content of the list

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  717. MattJ

    It was a definite shift in the purpose of the list though

  718. Ge0rG

    I don't know if #425 was created by a Pidgin project member, and technically there _was_ a new Pidgin release, so it's not unmaintained. But everybody agrees that it's a horrible XMPP client and maybe even that it's damaging XMPP's reputation

  719. MattJ

    What we had before was an extremely long directory of every XMPP (and Jabber) software ever written

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  721. MattJ

    and we agreed to introduce changes to ensure the list is more current, by requiring projects to re-list periodically

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  723. Guus

    Without enforcing a ruling, perhaps board can offer an opinion?

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  725. Guus

    would that suffice?

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  727. ralphm

    Who maintains the list?

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  729. Kev

    From the peanut gallery, I think if this is a Pidgin person asking for it to be listed, it should be listed, otherwise not.

  730. jonasw

    whoever has power over the merge button, taht’s at least guus and me.

  731. Guus

    whoever has commit rights.

  732. Guus

    I'm not sure if we have a defined WT for website maintenance.

  733. Ge0rG

    Kev: formally, you are right. But IMVHO this is also a subjective issue of whether we want to serve our community well.

  734. Kev

    I agree, but I think we either have to curate the list, or not curate the list, not having uncurated except for one excluded project.

  735. Guus

    Answering the peanut gallery: I'd not be opposed listing software even if it was asking to be listed by end-users, instead of developers.

  736. Guus

    I would, however, not oppose a semi-objective "compatibility" rating for each of our listings - if it's not to detailed.

  737. Ge0rG

    Kev: as it is right now, this list looks like the officially endorsed clients™, and I'm not sure we really want to endorse every client that applies for the list.

  738. MattJ

    Ge0rG, I share your opinion that Pidgin's current situation is not helping us, but I don't think we've actually made that decision to make the lists "only software recommended by the XSF"

  739. Ge0rG

    On the other hand we don't have a proper way to objectively describe client quality

  740. MattJ

    and that's a difficult subject that has never been solved in the years we've been discussing it

  741. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I'm talking about the impression to new users, not about our internal bureaucracy.

  742. Zash has left

  743. Ge0rG

    I'm well aware that my counter-point of the PR (probably) not originating from a Pidgin developer is just a fig-leaf excuse to not have it listed.

  744. Guus

    I think it is useful for people to know that Pidgin can do XMPP (even if its implementation is crappy, at best).

  745. Kev

    I think the best objective measure we have at the moment is "Has the project itself asked to be listed".

  746. Ge0rG

    Guus: people who already use Pidgin are probably aware of that. Do you want people who are learning about XMPP to end up with Pidgin, though?

  747. Kev

    If the project itself doesn't care to list itself as an XMPP client, that suggests to me that it's better off not listed.

  748. alexis has left

  749. alexis has joined

  750. daniel has left

  751. Ge0rG

    Kev: I think (hope) this is uncontroversial.

  752. Ge0rG

    OTOH, Guus disagreed earlier today.

  753. Kev

    Ge0rG: Guus was disagreeing :)

  754. ralphm

    I have to agree that what Kev said is the only objective thing we have

  755. Ge0rG

    short of verifying the Compliance Suite 2018 compatibility.

  756. Ge0rG

    But if we enforce that, we will end up with a _very_ _short_ list.

  757. ralphm

    And I might not like Pidgin, but that's subjective. If you want objective, you need to say: all listings have to comply with something, like the Compliance Suite. I don't think we did that before.

  758. MattJ

    Ok, so I think we need to make a decision on "project members only" or "anyone"

  759. Kev

    We did, FWIW.

  760. MattJ

    Kev, in the past you mean?

  761. Kev

    At the Summit where this policy was created.

  762. Kev

    And it was Project Members Only.

  763. ralphm

    Is darkpsy3934 a project member?

  764. Ge0rG

    in that case we should make it more explicit in the README.

  765. Guus

    I don't recall (not saying it's not true), but I certainly do not enforce that.

  766. andy has left

  767. MattJ

    Kev, defining project members is tricky for FOSS

  768. Guus

    (as I don't know how to enforce that)

  769. MattJ

    commit access? maintains the documentation? Non-coding community manager?

  770. Ge0rG

    MattJ: it's tricky, but something like "does regular contributions and can influence (the other) developers" would be a good start.

  771. Ge0rG

    MattJ: once we get a hold on somebody who cares and can do that, we can shame them into implementing the most basic interop things. Like the 8-years-pending Carbons support.

  772. MattJ

    I think we need to separate the Pidgin situation from this :)

  773. MattJ

    If we're not setting a baseline technical requirement, Pidgin qualifies

  774. Ge0rG

    MattJ: that was just a figurative example.

  775. alexis has left

  776. MattJ

    and I assume they have at least 1 active team member, who will ultimately ask us to list the project

  777. Guus

    I think we'd best not add any complexity to that adding-things-to-the-list thing.

  778. alexis has joined

  779. ralphm

    MattJ: I agree

  780. MattJ

    So the question is simply what our requirements are in general

  781. ralphm

    I understand Ge0rG's concern, and probably agree that I'd like Pidgin to do better, but I don't see enough reason to reject this request.

  782. Dave Cridland

    Well. 1) Are there any requirements on the software listed. 2) Are there any requirements on the person listing.

  783. Ge0rG

    ralphm: Pidgin has failed to do better for a very long time now.

  784. ralphm

    I'd prefer having a list of clients that at least one person cares about, over an overengineered process.

  785. Guus

    ralphm, that's the gist of what I'm thinking too.

  786. ralphm

    AFAIK the only requirement is 'somebody asks for inclusion at least once a year'

  787. Ge0rG

    ralphm: having a software listed on that page is (to an outsider) equivalent to us, the XMPP organization, endorsing its usage.

  788. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Could I submit bash?

  789. Ge0rG

    Dave Cridland: ITYM openssl s_client

  790. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Could Donald Trump submit the White House Website?

  791. alexis has left

  792. ralphm

    yes

  793. Guus

    Dave, you could submit it, but I (as someone who has the ability to merge the request) would reject it

  794. alexis has joined

  795. Dave Cridland

    Guus, On what grounds?

  796. Ge0rG

    Guus: on what grounds?

  797. Guus

    on my semi-objective opinion that it's not an XMPP client or server.

  798. Dave Cridland

    Guus, Because you're telling me now there's a line. I'd like to know what that line is.

  799. Ge0rG

    Guus: it fulfills the technical requirements.

  800. ralphm

    Dave Cridland: please suggest an alternative

  801. Guus

    Dave: I've previously not accepted PRs for projects that were silos.

  802. Guus

    (xmpp based silos, but silos)

  803. Ge0rG

    ralphm: "a project member submitting the project to indicate that they care about XMPP"

  804. Guus

    there's a degree of subjectivity in there - and I'm fine with that.

  805. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, I'm trying to find what the current policy is, before suggesting a new policy that differs.

  806. ralphm

    TBH, an XMPP client is something that implements XMPP IM

  807. jjrh has left

  808. Guus

    as a point of order: I can't overrun this meeting. We should conclude this, or resume next week.

  809. ralphm

    We have no objective requirements on UI

  810. Ge0rG

    ralphm: so a text window where you enter XML qualifies?

  811. ralphm

    Dave Cridland: I think the current policy is: somebody can submit an XMPP Client (whatever that means) once a year, and it would be included.

  812. MattJ

    I think this discussion isn't very useful right now

  813. MattJ

    Pidgin is no doubt an XMPP client

  814. Kev

    If the criterion is "Person with website commit access gets to choose whether it's listed or not", then we should say that. I don't think it's a good policy, but at least we'd be stating it, and it's different from what we've stated before.

  815. ralphm

    Ge0rG: I want to note that compliance suites also have no such requirements

  816. Dave Cridland

    Kev, +1

  817. alexis has left

  818. Ge0rG

    > To achieve this, the XSF Board has decided that all implementations have to reapply once per year, to ensure that they are still actively maintained and that the listed info is accurate.

  819. Ge0rG

    This is from my mail to jdev@, Thu, 23 Mar 2017

  820. ralphm

    I think all of this work is best effort and there is no completely definitive answer. Some person is going to accept or reject and then maybe somebody else has opinions later

  821. Kev

    ralphm: Then just go with my suggestion above.

  822. MattJ

    I propose that we currently vote on whether to accept this PR. If someone objects, state why so we can resolve it for next time

  823. Kev

    It is clear. Not good, I think, but clear.

  824. jjrh has left

  825. Guus

    Kev, where 'website' is our website, not the project applying, you mean?

  826. Kev

    Yes.

  827. ralphm

    MattJ: but I don't want to have to vote on this every time.

  828. Kev

    If we're being arbitrary about it, it is best to be explicit that we're arbitrary about it.

  829. MattJ

    Agreed, neither do I - but what we decide ultimately sets a precedent and we can document it

  830. Kev

    Rather than pretending we have one rule, and acting on another.

  831. Guus

    Kev: I don't agree that it's needed to be explicit about that (don't mind to much either)

  832. Kev

    I'm vanishing now anyway.

  833. ralphm

    In that case, I move we accept this request to add Pidgin on the grounds that it is an implementation and somebody wants it added for another year

  834. Guus

    I think we're somewhat overcomplicating a proces that has worked pretty well so far

  835. alexis has joined

  836. Guus

    it's jsut this Pidgin thing that now acts up, which is understandable.

  837. Valerian has joined

  838. Guus

    ralphm: +1

  839. jjrh has left

  840. Guus

    also, I need to be going. Can stick aournd for a couple more minutes at best.

  841. MattJ

    I'm -1, because I think we should limit submissions to people affiliated with the project to ensure accuracy of the submitted data

  842. alexis has left

  843. MattJ

    and it's not clear that this person is affiliated in any way, other than as a user

  844. alexis has joined

  845. Guus

    mattj, the person merging assures accuracy.

  846. Guus

    (at least, I check if the name / website exists, and that's pretty much it)

  847. MattJ

    If all the data is trivially verifiable, then I'd be fine with that

  848. Guus

    "all the data" is just the name and link to the project site

  849. moparisthebest has left

  850. Ge0rG

    I still think that this is a huge disservice to our community.

  851. MattJ

    Ok, then I'm +1

  852. Guus

    Ge0rG, I hear you, but I disagree.

  853. Holger

    FWIW, I would think Compliance Suite compatibility would be a good criterion. The resulting list will be short because there isn't many good clients, but I don't see how it helps the end user to make it longer by filling it up with not so good clients.

  854. Ge0rG

    Holger: it could end up with Conversations as the only client.

  855. Guus

    Ralphm, can we conclude the meeting please? 🙂

  856. MattJ

    I think as a separate task, we should add a field for latest supported complaince suite

  857. ralphm

    yes

  858. MattJ

    But that's for another day

  859. Holger

    Ge0rG: I'm not sure that's true. If it is, so be it.

  860. ralphm

    3. AOB

  861. Guus

    MattJ: some form of conformance should be added, yes. Not sure if it needs to be compliance suite or not.

  862. Ge0rG

    Guus: it's the most logical one.

  863. ralphm

    nothing today

  864. ralphm

    4. Date of Next

  865. ralphm

    +1W

  866. Guus

    (no aob for me)

  867. Guus

    +1w wfm

  868. MattJ

    wfm++

  869. ralphm

    5. Close

  870. ralphm

    Thanks all

  871. dwd has left

  872. ralphm bangs gavel

  873. MattJ

    Thanks ralphm

  874. Guus

    thank you, and goodbye

  875. Ge0rG

    Thanks everyone.

  876. Holger

    Maybe the Compliance Suite or the referenced XEPs need fixing if nobody is able to implement it.

  877. Holger

    Ge0rG: But doesn't Gajim also meet it? And maybe even ChatSecure these days?

  878. Holger

    Maybe also JSXC and/or Movim ...

  879. moparisthebest

    I would also like to see License listed there

  880. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  881. alexis has left

  882. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: how is that relevant?

  883. Holger

    I'd like to see programming language :-)

  884. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, so you can quickly rule out crap you can't use :)

  885. Ge0rG

    I'd like to see a commit graph of the last 365 days.

  886. alexis has joined

  887. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: crap and license are completely orthogonal

  888. moparisthebest

    the last entry for example uses some custom license which makes it worthless

  889. moparisthebest

    'you can look, but not touch'

  890. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: people who care about software licenses are typically sufficiently competent to obtain that information on their own.

  891. moparisthebest

    well sure, you can search each individual website for such info, but it's time consuming and annoying

  892. Holger

    moparisthebest: How much time have you spent searching XMPP client web sites for licensing ingo?

  893. Holger

    info even

  894. moparisthebest

    I think if authors have to submit the info, it'd be a good chance for them to put the license

  895. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: the alternative is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_clients

  896. moparisthebest

    Holger, wasted a few minutes on the last one :)

  897. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: it would be good to have it in the JSON, but not in the rendering.

  898. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: "a few minutes" is not a valid reason.

  899. alexis has left

  900. moparisthebest

    oh well that'd be fine with me too Ge0rG , just as long as it existed in an easy to find/standard way I think that'd be excellent

  901. Holger

    Of course now you made me curious about the Zom license.

  902. alexis has joined

  903. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: make a PR to extend the JSON format.

  904. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: also add an icon field while you are at it ;)

  905. Holger

    And programming language!!

  906. MattJ

    I'd much rather move to the model we've discussed many times, where projects host this info themselves in some standard format

  907. MattJ

    But guess what, it always comes down to a JSON vs. XML debate :)

  908. moparisthebest

    maybe a compromise could be made on YAML or TOML or something :P

  909. moparisthebest

    that way *no one* is happy

  910. MattJ

    Link Mauve posted some concrete proposals to the list a while back

  911. Holger

    But then there's a nice project that fails to do this ...

  912. Ge0rG

    Holger: yaxim doesn't have XEP-0368 (failing Core Client), avatars/vcard (failing IM Core Client), and push (failing Mobile Advanced Client).

  913. MattJ

    and they don't get listed, poor them. They're probably not a nice project :)

  914. daniel has left

  915. Holger

    Ge0rG: Then that's either a good reason not to list it or there's something wrong with the Suite.

  916. Ge0rG

    Holger: or both.

  917. rtq3 has joined

  918. Holger

    Yes :-)

  919. Ge0rG

    Holger: of these I consider only MAM as mission-critical. But I wasn't able to convince the XEP author.

  920. Ge0rG

    wait, MAM isn't even part of my list because it's Advanced IM

  921. alexis has left

  922. alexis has joined

  923. Holger

    0368 seems totally optional to me. For the others I dunno.

  924. Ge0rG

    Holger: I have the highly controversial opinion that ensuring reliable message delivery is the most important task of an XMPP based IM solution.

  925. moparisthebest

    it looks like it says TLS is required, and that you could get it by implementing either 368 or STARTTLS

  926. Holger

    But I have no idea what the purpose of a Compliance Suite might be if it doesn't even work as a criterion for recommendable XMPP software.

  927. moparisthebest

    unless I read it wrong?

  928. rion has joined

  929. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: by that logic one could implement RFC 7622 instead of 6120 and be compliant.

  930. alexis has left

  931. alexis has joined

  932. moparisthebest

    that is how it's worded isn't it?

  933. moparisthebest

    the feature is 'TLS' and under Providers it lists: RFC 7590 [4], SRV records for XMPP over TLS (XEP-0368) [5] [6]

  934. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: there is no explicit wording on that at all.

  935. moparisthebest

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0387.html#core

  936. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: I think the XSF is looking for a volunteer to make next year's Compliance Suite.

  937. moparisthebest

    A feature is considered supported if all comma separated feature providers listed in the "Providers" column are implemented (unless otherwise noted).

  938. moparisthebest

    ah I missed that, so looks like 368 is required

  939. Chobbes has joined

  940. moparisthebest

    Ge0rG, hehe if I wrote it it'd be pretty simple "Do you implement everything Conversations does? If so, compliant, if not, you suck."

  941. moparisthebest

    just joking :)

  942. Alex has joined

  943. MattJ

    ...or are you?

  944. MattJ

    (thinking of the aesgcm discussion)

  945. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: yes, that's the Conversations Protocol Compliance Suite.

  946. jonasw

    FWIW: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/425#issuecomment-382759398

  947. goffi has left

  948. jonasw

    (and, as it was foretold, I was dragged away from board meeting mid-meeting)

  949. Ge0rG

    jonasw: apparently, all present board members voted to approve that PR.

  950. jonasw

    Ge0rG, my understanding was under the condition of that we can verify project membership.

  951. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I think this is not what was voted in the end.

  952. jonasw

    but I might0ve misread

  953. MattJ

    I guess I should write up the minutes now :)

  954. jonasw

    right

  955. jonasw

    I misread

  956. jonasw

    fixing

  957. jonasw

    done

  958. Maranda has left

  959. rtq3 has left

  960. Maranda has left

  961. Ge0rG starts typing resignation letter.

  962. jonasw

    mine? darn, I just made an incorrect comment. no need to write my resignation for me :<

  963. Dave Cridland

    Ge0rG, What are you resigning from?

  964. Ge0rG

    jonasw: no, it's not a termination letter.

  965. jonasw

    Ge0rG, I know. you could still write that letter, lay it in front of me, say "sign it" and hold a gun next to my head though :)

  966. Ge0rG

    Dave Cridland: I haven't decided yet. I'm just feeling a strong wave of resignation.

  967. j.r has joined

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  969. alexis has left

  970. Holger

    TBH I'm not sure this list is all that important anyway, these days :-) It's probably way more important to have a good ranking in app store search results.

  971. alexis has joined

  972. Ge0rG

    Holger: I'm sure desktop users will share your view.

  973. Holger

    There are no desktop users.

  974. Ge0rG

    The cake is a lie?

  975. jonasw

    Ge0rG, you are aware that all major desktop platforms have appstores by now?

  976. Holger was going to link the Windows App store :-)

  977. lumi has left

  978. Steve Kille has left

  979. jonasw

    look at Ubuntu (and derivates) (and I’m not sure even that counts in as major), look at Mac OS, look at Windows.

  980. Steve Kille has left

  981. Ge0rG

    the scary thing is, I just opened the Windows store and it greeted me with my name.

  982. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I thought the Windows store was Win10 only?

  983. jonasw

    Ge0rG, is there any other windows in use anymore?

  984. Ge0rG

    I've heard Win7 is still a thing.

  985. rion has left

  986. rion has joined

  987. Maranda

    It's called Microsoft Store now. GET IT RIGHT.

  988. alexis has left

  989. alexis has joined

  990. Holger

    So what's the policy regarding that web site list now? I've re-read the backlog and don't get it.

  991. Ge0rG

    Maranda: tell me about Android Market.

  992. Maranda

    Ge0rG, :P

  993. Ge0rG

    Holger: anything that is deemed an xmpp client by the editors is good to go.

  994. Ge0rG

    apparently, it needs to support rfc6120 to pass.

  995. jonasw

    yeah, anything which can make an appearance which convinces the merger that it’s an XMPP software thing is good.

  996. jonasw

    yeah, anything which can make an appearance which convinces the merger that it’s an XMPP software thing is good enough.

  997. moul has left

  998. Holger

    So like before?

  999. Ge0rG considers writing a shell script that opens PRs for each of aioxmpp/examples/*.py

  1000. Holger

    A complete list of all existing XMPP software?

  1001. jonasw

    Holger, except that people need to go through the effort of renewing

  1002. Ge0rG

    Holger: a list of all xmpp software somebody submits once a year

  1003. Holger

    Ah.

  1004. jonasw

    Ge0rG, oh yes, I can’t wait for Roster List TUI 1.0 to appear there!

  1005. jonasw

    to be fair, the adhoc_browser example could actually be useful.

  1006. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I'm much more excited about quickstart_serve_software_version.py!

  1007. Holger

    I would rule out that you end up with a useful list that way :-) But whatever.

  1008. marmistrz has joined

  1009. Ge0rG

    Holger: it's as good as any arbitrary list!

  1010. jonasw

    Holger, the idea was that we can tighten the constraints once we have the renewal thing

  1011. Ge0rG

    I mean, at least we've averted the listing of /bin/bash!

  1012. jonasw

    reminds me to build the xmpp client in sed

  1013. Ge0rG

    I still think that the initial rule of "submitted by a developer" that was created by last year's board is much better. But what do I know.

  1014. jonasw

    at least a simple echo bot should be doable

  1015. jonasw

    and then I’m gonna release that as GPLv3 XMPP "library" for sed :>

  1016. Ge0rG

    jonasw: it needs a home page and a shiny name.

  1017. jonasw

    Ge0rG, github repository is fine

  1018. jonasw

    aioxmpp doesn’ have a fancy homepage either

  1019. Ge0rG

    jonasw: make it a proper client. With a Jabber™ trademark license.

  1020. alexis has left

  1021. alexis has joined

  1022. jonasw

    EBUSY

  1023. jonasw

    with that other proper client and helllota different stuff

  1024. SamWhited has left

  1025. Kev has left

  1026. Maranda

    https://upload.lightwitch.org/share/dafff9ca-2651-4a31-a578-d95d6781877f/KFE5mlBPTTqdf9IdE9Yzow.gif

  1027. alexis has left

  1028. alexis has joined

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  1030. alexis has joined

  1031. pep.

    > jonasw> reminds me to build the xmpp client in sed wat?

  1032. SamWhited has joined

  1033. jonasw

    pep., sed is turing complete after all.

  1034. jonasw

    the only issue might be the line-orientedness maybe, but a pipe with xml2 as suggested by Zash might fix that

  1035. pep.

    I see. It makes a lot more sense now, I would definitely approve this

  1036. marc has joined

  1037. jonasw

    I sense sarcasm.

  1038. Maranda

    A mere sensation ignore it

  1039. Zash

    xev | sed | nc | xml2 | sed | xdotool

  1040. jonasw

    Zash, oh my god.

  1041. jonasw

    oh my god.

  1042. Zash

    praise golb

  1043. MattJ

    https://github.com/uuner/sedtris

  1044. jonasw

    dear glob, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. *signs cross*

  1045. intosi

    Reminds me of when a colleague aeons back decided that it was easier to write a partial XML parser in AWK than to use a library and create a binary program.

  1046. nyco has left

  1047. Maranda

    Huhu

  1048. jonasw

    oh my god.

  1049. jonasw

    I’m playing tetris in a sed interpreter.

  1050. jonasw

    and it’s colourful

  1051. marmistrz has joined

  1052. Maranda

    I wonder if there's a sed pinball version

  1053. alexis has left

  1054. alexis has joined

  1055. dwd has left

  1056. pep.

    jonasw, I did as well!

  1057. jubalh has left

  1058. waqas has left

  1059. jonasw

    pep., except that I’m 100% serious :)

  1060. jonasw

    i really want to do an echo-bot in sed

  1061. jonasw

    just becasue it should be possible and to keep my brain from becoming too normal

  1062. pep.

    hmm

  1063. jubalh has left

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