XSF Discussion - 2018-04-23

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  391. daniel

    Can a muc member revoke their own membership?

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  395. jonasw

    probably not?

  396. daniel

    I don't find anything specific related to that in the xep. Maybe some servers just allow the admin command if the removed user matches user who runs the query

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  398. Zash

    Isn't membership editing limited to the owner(s)?

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  401. daniel

    Yes that's what I meant. Maybe some specific implementations allow that if the member you want to edit is the requesting member

  402. daniel

    But it's certainly not explicitly mentioned in the xep

  403. winfried

    Well, that may be a GDPR issue... :-(

  404. Ge0rG

    daniel: that's only half a step away from allowing members to make themselves an owner ;)

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  406. jonasw

    winfried, not sure. the owner is responsible for the members list.

  407. jonasw

    much of this might boil down to the question whether users have the right to have their data deleted from other peoples data.

  408. Zash

    An exception for members leaving the group makes sense

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  410. jonasw

    like, my roster is *my* data, are you allowed to force me/my server operator to delete your JID from my data?

  411. winfried

    jonasw: storage and membership are two different processings

  412. jonasw

    winfried, where’s the difference?

  413. Zash

    jonasw: That doesn't happen tho

  414. jonasw

    Zash, what doesn’t happen?

  415. Zash

    Just updating the subscription state to none

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  417. pep.

    Zash: yeah makes sense, there could be an exception for that

  418. winfried

    jonasw: showing membership, relaying messages, storing messages

  419. jonasw

    Zash, I think somebody argued that even storing PII like the JID could be an issue.

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  425. Zash

    Group creator storing other people's jids?

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  427. winfried

    jonasw Ge0rG pep. if you are able look at the document I send to the members list before the meeting of 12:30, it would be very helpful

  428. Zash

    Ge0rG: Easy MUC leaving ?

  429. jonasw

    winfried, I don’t see a document on the members list

  430. jonasw

    are you subscribed?

  431. Zash

    I saw it

  432. jonasw

    meh, restarting my MUA

  433. jonasw

    there it is!

  434. Ge0rG

    jonasw: Akonadi FTW!

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  436. jonasw

    Ge0rG, indeed. akonadictl restart and 5s later it’s on order. jokes aside, it has some weird troubles with switching networks while the notebook is suspended :/

  437. pep.

    .odt aww, you're going to force me to use the big guns

  438. winfried

    Zash: yes, storing a JID as MUC owner is a 'processing' in the context of the GDPR, but it not a very problematic processing

  439. jonasw

    pep., I can put a .pdf somewhere

  440. pep.

    Nah I have libreoffice it's fine

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  442. pep.

    I just never use it

  443. Zash

    No .txt? :)

  444. winfried

    sorry about that, I just wanted to go to bed after working 14 hours straight yesterday and didn't want to figure out how I would be able to put that table in the Wiki (what I would have preferred)

  445. jonasw

    wiki tables are a PITA indeed

  446. jonasw

    maybe Zash can apply some pandoc magic to convert this to mediawiki markup?

  447. winfried

    :-D be my guest!

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  449. Zash

    Pandoc probably reads odt, so sure

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  457. daniel

    we don't have to make that about gdpr. but if clients tend to show the entire member list (not just the currently joined users) we should give users the ability to actually 'leave' a muc

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  459. jonasw

    daniel, indeed

  460. pep.

    daniel: agreed

  461. Zash

    There being three or so separate lists is fun too

  462. jonasw

    three separate lists?

  463. daniel

    owner, members admins

  464. Ge0rG

    winfried: awesome table, looks good to me

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  466. jonasw

    I can’t parse the table.

  467. jonasw

    speaking of which, I might not be very useful in todays meeting.

  468. pep.

    I'm on my phone with nothing installed for that ATM (still in bed :-°)

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  470. jonasw

    pep., I can upload you a pdf, as I said

  471. pep.

    It can wait that I get on the laptop

  472. jonasw

    pep., https://sotecware.net/files/noindex/GDPR-table.pdf

  473. pep.


  474. jonasw

    pep., but I won’t let you :>

  475. winfried

    jonasw: mentally parse?

  476. jonasw

    winfried, yeah

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  479. jonasw

    not your fault though, I’m tired and exhausted for unrelated reasons.

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  481. winfried

    jonasw: any amount of coffee that would resolve the issue?

  482. Maranda

    Lazy pep. it's past 10

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  484. jonasw

    winfried, I’m caffeine-free for several months now; also, no :)

  485. pep.

    Maranda: BST not CEST

  486. Maranda

    Pft then it's past nine still lazy

  487. Ge0rG took a 1000km trip last week to grab his coffee machine.

  488. jonasw

    that’s some serious dedication!

  489. jonasw

    or addiction.

  490. Maranda


  491. Maranda

    I think more the latter

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  493. Maranda

    But could be dedicated addiction

  494. Ge0rG

    I can stop any time I want!1!!

  495. Zash

    Why would you tho

  496. Maranda

    Or dedication to addiction

  497. pep.

    winfried: "how to safeguard on remote server?", that also came across last time, what falls on the recipient's consent exactly?

  498. Maranda

    Whichever sounds better

  499. pep.

    Can we clarify this during the meeting

  500. Ge0rG

    I think we don't need to ensure explicit consent to s2s delivery.

  501. winfried

    pep.: yes, please note questions like these, the thing is still subject to improvement

  502. winfried

    Ge0rG: agree, but *only* if no additional processing is done on the remote server :-(

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  504. Ge0rG

    winfried: technically, the remote server is subject to the GDPR because you forward it data from EU citizens, right? ;)

  505. Maranda looks at the calendar

  506. Maranda places a big red cross

  507. Ge0rG

    winfried: I wonder if we need contracts or in-band XML markup for that

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  509. Maranda puts enphasis on the red and big

  510. jonasw

    winfried, you wrote "implicit permission" for user metadata (presence) in grounds for processing; but isn’t approving a presence subscription explicit permission?

  511. jonasw

    Ge0rG, both

  512. Ge0rG

    jonasw: it's explicit approval but implicit data sharing permission, I'd say

  513. jonasw


  514. winfried

    Ge0rG: yes, I have the same line of thought, the question if it is subject to the GDPR is not settled yet, and probably not relevant at all

  515. winfried

    jonasw: yes, correct, plz take notes

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  526. pep.

    And Maranda, it's not because you might have obligations that I also have to get up before 9 :p

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  528. Maranda


  529. Maranda

    Just lazy

  530. pep.


  531. pep.

    I want my sleep!

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  626. jonasw


  627. jonasw


  628. jonasw

    GDPR in 2?

  629. winfried


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  632. jonasw

    winfried, what do you mean by "can we safeguard XY on remote server?"?

  633. jonasw

    do you mean "can we ensure that on remote server?"?

  634. winfried

    jonasw: ensure

  635. jonasw


  636. winfried

    pep. Ge0rG present?

  637. pep.


  638. Ge0rG

    hi there

  639. winfried *bangs* the gavel

  640. jonasw

    quick announcement: I’ll have a hard cutoff today at 13:30 CEST due to a meeting with my master thesis supervisor

  641. winfried

    jonasw: he can wait, this is more important :-D

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  644. jonasw

    I’ll tell him that, I bet he’ll be convinced ;-)

  645. winfried

    shall we from out the table I have build?

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  647. jonasw

    winfried, so, we’re plowing through Q1.1e today?

  648. jonasw

    seems good

  649. SamWhited has left

  650. winfried

    Any questions / amendments / additions

  651. winfried


  652. jonasw

    not right now

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  654. winfried

    Ok, then lets tackle the issues top to bottom ;-)

  655. jonasw

    let’s do that

  656. winfried

    We need to inform about the processing

  657. jonasw

    the EULA thing in the credentials row seems to be a technical TODO for the EULA-XEP

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  660. Ge0rG

    jonasw: EULA doesn't imply EULA XEP. Yet.

  661. winfried

    jonasw: what do you mean with "EULA-XEP"? A XEP containing a standardized EULA?

  662. pep.

    winfried, additions, what I asked this morning

  663. jonasw

    winfried, a XEP which defines how clients obtain the key points from a servers EULA. it would (in my mind) also contain *defaults* which apply to every xmpp server.

  664. jonasw

    (that would be among them)

  665. pep.

    Once the message hits s2s, is it on the recipient's consent, for whatever reason. Unless it's a service on the other end not a person

  666. rtq3 has left

  667. Ge0rG

    jonasw: did you check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P3P for overlaps?

  668. rtq3 has joined

  669. jonasw


  670. Ge0rG

    pep.: I claim it's fair game to tell your users that whatever you send to a remote server is subject to that server's ToS

  671. pep.

    Ge0rG, but they wouldn't know what server, would they

  672. pep.

    I mean

  673. SamWhited has joined

  674. pep.

    I can, you can, my mom doesn't

  675. pep.

    I can, you can, my mom doesn't know

  676. jonasw

    with the EULA XEP it *would* be possible to have your client show you that ToS.

  677. Ge0rG

    pep.: by sending a message to mark@facebook.com your messages are subject to facebook ToS.

  678. pep.

    Ge0rG, but in her client it's written "Mark"

  679. jonasw

    but I think it’s even more fair game (and less critical) to say that "a message you send to someone is handled like the recipient wants, not like you want"

  680. Ge0rG

    pep.: show me a client that doesn't expose the JID of newly added users

  681. pep.

    jonasw, I agree with that, not sure how to expose it to users

  682. pep.

    Ge0rG, ok, now explain that to users

  683. jonasw

    pep., I think that’s common sense.

  684. jonasw

    Ge0rG, once we’re at the point of invitation URLs we might get rid of most of that. I wouldn’t rely on that.

  685. pep.

    Explain to users that's it's 2 different things, localpart and domain, and not just one thing

  686. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I disagree

  687. pep.

    I agree with jonasw

  688. jonasw


  689. Ge0rG

    "somebody who claims to be called jonas wants to add you to their contacts. [yes] [no] [wtf is jonas]"

  690. vanitasvitae has joined

  691. Ge0rG

    now stop bike-shedding please.

  692. Ge0rG

    we've got real business to accomplish here.

  693. pep.

    Just for completeness, "Hey foo, I gave your details to bar, he's going to add you" *foo receives a contact request from _bar_* [yes] [no]

  694. pep.

    back to 1.1e?

  695. winfried takes my eyes of the chatwindow and sees a catfight upon return

  696. jonasw


  697. jonasw meows innocently

  698. lnj has joined

  699. jonasw

    so what do we have?

  700. winfried

    I propose to postpone this discussion and start a top: informing the user upon account creation

  701. SamWhited has left

  702. jonasw


  703. winfried

    that doesn't need a EULA-XEP

  704. Ge0rG

    winfried: maybe it does, if the user does IBR

  705. winfried

    but a standard/model EULA may come in here handy

  706. winfried

    Ge0rG: isn't IBR evil and banned?

  707. jonasw


  708. jonasw

    no, IBR isn’t banned

  709. jonasw

    it’s even getting developed

  710. jonasw

    see XEP—0401 for example.

  711. pep.

    And maybe in a not-so-distant future clients will support data forms

  712. winfried


  713. Ge0rG

    So there are different things we might understand under "EULA XEP": - a template for writing server EULAs - a protocol for informing the client about the EULA URL - a protocol for informing the client about specific EULA details - an s2s protocol to let remote users know of your EULAs

  714. la|r|ma has joined

  715. jonasw

    in my mind it’s a mix of the first and the third point

  716. winfried

    Ge0rG: +1

  717. pep.

    Ge0rG, I was kind of including all the above

  718. jonasw

    yeah, kinda all of those actually

  719. pep.

    Maybe less focused on s2s at first, but that was mentioned a few times

  720. ThibG has joined

  721. winfried

    Will that be 1 XEP or 4?

  722. jonasw

    do we need to figure out the formalities of that XEP in this meeting?

  723. Ge0rG

    strictly speaking, we don't need any of those, except #2 for IBR

  724. pep.

    I think the direction is good

  725. winfried

    Ge0rG: +1

  726. Ge0rG

    So I suggest we skip out the EULA topic

  727. Zash

    Template / guidelines for writing an EULA sounds like an informal XEP if anything

  728. Ge0rG

    Zash: 👍

  729. SamWhited has joined

  730. pep.

    Ge0rG, the s2s thing, how do you do that without a XEP?

  731. pep.

    Same for 3. actually

  732. pep.

    But yes I agree the details of the XEP can be done outside this meeting

  733. Ge0rG

    pep.: my point is: we haven't yet established the need for any EULAs but the ones between a user and their server

  734. Zash

    Template / guidelines for writing an EULA sounds like an informational* XEP if anything

  735. winfried

    Summary to solve first block: template EULA + protocol for informing client of EULA URL for IBR

  736. Ge0rG

    pep.: and until there is a legal requirement to have remote EULA consent dialogs, we don't need an s2s EULA XEP

  737. pep.

    ok ok

  738. winfried

    correct? Then we can move to the second blob

  739. jonasw


  740. Ge0rG

    Otherwise we'll have to maintain a list of remote EULAs the user has accepted and block access to any other domains. Ain't that great?

  741. pep.

    Ge0rG, not saying it is, at all :/

  742. winfried

    Metadata in C2S context

  743. winfried

    I guess we need to inform server operators about the limits here

  744. Ge0rG

    winfried: good point.

  745. Ge0rG

    winfried: so we need a second document aimed at server operators outlining the limits

  746. pep.


  747. winfried


  748. jonasw


  749. SamWhited has left

  750. pep.

    Ok so 1.1e really is "come up with that document"

  751. winfried

    I guess we need also mention this in the EULA template

  752. winfried

    but do we need to communicate any standardized EULA clauses to the clients here or a link to the EULA?

  753. ludo has left

  754. winfried

    I guess maybe keep the link visible

  755. jonasw

    both is good

  756. winfried

    (and handle changes)

  757. jonasw

    wtih both I mean a combination of both

  758. jonasw

    that’s essentially whta the EULA-XEP originally was about

  759. winfried

    third Blob

  760. Zash

    eula { url, registered clauses ... }

  761. winfried

    Metadata in S2S context

  762. Ge0rG

    with standardized EULA clauses, we are really in the P3P territory and somebody should have a hard look at that prior work

  763. jonasw

    I think all the "how to ensure on remote servre" things can be answered with "not".

  764. jonasw

    Ge0rG, I’ll put that on my todo.

  765. jonasw

    but I can’t promise anything

  766. winfried

    Ge0rG: I don't know *how* standardized that has to be

  767. winfried

    But P3P sure is a good thing to look at

  768. Ge0rG

    winfried: me neither. I'd say that having a human-readable ToS template is a good first approximation for now

  769. winfried

    Ge0rG: +1

  770. marmistrz has left

  771. Ge0rG

    unless the current s2s blob makes us formalize enforceable s2s requirements

  772. Guus has left

  773. Ge0rG

    which I hope to avoid at any cost

  774. winfried

    jonasw: ensuring remote server, can't be done on a technical level

  775. jonasw

    winfried, exactly

  776. jonasw

    and on a legal level it’s at least questionable.

  777. winfried

    (if the data is readable, ik can leak)

  778. jonasw

    is it the responsibility of the service operator to ensure that all s2s peers comply?

  779. Ge0rG

    winfried: it's possible to enforce on a technical level that the claimed s2s server's policy matches the user's requirements

  780. Zash

    Is it not enough to say that communication with remote peers are up to them, the user consentend when they sent a remote-addressed stanz

  781. jonasw

    I’d even go as far as "sends any stanza to a user which is not themselves"

  782. Ge0rG

    I see three outcomes: - we can't / won't enforce any s2s behavior / compliance claims - every server needs to advertise whether they comply with GDPR - P3P style fine-grained formal description

  783. jonasw

    because even on the same server users might’ve opted in to MAM while you didn’t

  784. winfried

    I am in doubt now

  785. pep.

    jonasw, that could make sense

  786. winfried

    Ge0rG: first one, we may say: transfer is obvious to other server and part of the service the user requested, so leave it

  787. Ge0rG

    winfried: does that apply both to EU and thrid contries based servers?

  788. winfried

    but then we come in the realms of forwarding my mail to gmail

  789. winfried

    Ge0rG: yes

  790. Ge0rG

    does it need to be obvious to the user where the server is hosted?

  791. lnj has left

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  793. Valerian has joined

  794. winfried

    Ge0rG: good question, don't have a definitive answer to that: transfer outside the EU needs to be mentioned in the EULA, but the legal demands for S2S inside the EU are the same as outside the EU (in the context we have now)

  795. winfried

    - "- every server needs to advertise whether they comply with GDPR" - that may not be needed, advertise 'no secondary use / profiling' would suffice!

  796. winfried

    - "- P3P style fine-grained formal description " is in my opinion an overshoot (but that is an opion)

  797. Ge0rG

    winfried: so I suppose just covering the possibility of EU and third-country transfer in the EULA is sufficient?

  798. winfried

    Ge0rG: I *guess* so, would be interesting to take to court though...

  799. pep.

    hmm, can we come back to user-metadata C2S for a sec, I'm trying to find points to write down, but apart the TODO: document for server operators, I don't see much

  800. pep.

    The EULA XEP is also mentioned in every step concerning C2S for now

  801. winfried

    pep.: also publish a link to the EULA, needs to stay available + system for versioning the EULA...

  802. pep.

    I was hoping to include versioning into the XEP, not yet sure how/if really needed

  803. jonasw

    and notifying the user of changes

  804. pep.

    yeah that as well

  805. winfried

    But do we want to reside on the most minimal version of S2S: inform it can happen, don't ensure anything on the remote server

  806. lumi has left

  807. pep.

    Inform *s2s* can happen?

  808. Guus has left

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  811. winfried

    pep.: yes

  812. jonasw

    winfried, do we have a choice?

  813. winfried

    If it is obvious to the user it is handled by an other server with other legal status, it is ok like that, but we had that 'does my mother understand' catfight.. that is relevant here

  814. lnj has left

  815. pep.

    I'd be enclined to even say to the user "careful your messages may be considered differently once you send any stanza to a user which is not you", as jonasw mentioned above

  816. pep.

    So even C2S

  817. jonasw

    winfried, I don’t think we can make that obvious

  818. jonasw

    TLDs are not a safe indicator for that, IPs are a bit better, but not available to the client.

  819. pep.

    +1 to that ^

  820. jonasw

    unless it does SRV lookup for the service itself

  821. jonasw

    which may easily yield you a geo-located response with your closest entry ponit to the cluster

  822. jonasw

    so it would look as if it was EU from within the EU, but in fact the servers are partially outside the EU

  823. jonasw

    (DNS round-robin could case something similar with less fancy efforts)

  824. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

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  827. winfried

    I don't think we need to handle inside EU and outside the EU differently here: both are allowed if it us needed the perform the servers the user requests

  828. jonasw

    TL;DR: we can’t really show that to the user and have to assume the worst.

  829. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  830. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  831. winfried

    The issue is, do we need to tell the user if more is done with the data then is needed for performing the service the user requested?

  832. jonasw

    I don’t know.

  833. pep.

    I think we do, yes

  834. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  835. pep.

    Well legally I don't know

  836. Ge0rG

    winfried: I'd say we need something like "messages sent to users on other servers are subject to those servers data usage policies"

  837. Ge0rG

    + yadda yadda non-EU countries

  838. pep.

    + other user's settings?

  839. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  840. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  841. winfried

    + & + +1 ;-)

  842. pep.

    wat wat

  843. Ge0rG

    pep.: two different statements, first about other users -> their archival config, second the above one

  844. Ge0rG

    I'll make an attempt at writing an EULA once I have the time. In a month or so

  845. jonasw

    s/to users on other servers/to other users/;s/to those servers data usage policies/to the policies the those users agreed to, which may be more liberal than the policies you agreed to/

  846. pep.

    you still have a month and 2 days before GDPR, you're safe

  847. pep.

    yes I'd prefer jonasw's version

  848. lnj has left

  849. pep.

    I don't know if that holds legally, but that's a bit more thorough

  850. jonasw

    I don’t either

  851. winfried

    So no need for a S2S EULA XEP?

  852. pep.

    If we have this kind of disclaimer I don't think so?

  853. mhterres has joined

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  855. pep.

    Though, we were at "metadata"

  856. pep.

    Not data, yet

  857. pep.

    But I guess that still holds

  858. winfried

    I would *like* to know it, but is it needed for the GDPR? I doubt it.

  859. winfried

    maybe write a XEP like that and advertise it as 'good practice'?

  860. pep.

    winfried, probably implicit consent with roster subscriptions, or user joining MUCs etc.

  861. Ge0rG

    pep.: I think everything said above also holds true for data

  862. pep.

    Ge0rG, same

  863. winfried

    Ge0rG: +1

  864. jonasw

    Ge0rG, +1

  865. pep.

    Do we go with Ge0rG or jonasw's version?

  866. rion has joined

  867. jonasw

    if the "once you send it to the recipient, the recipient is responsible" holds, we’re good with it I think

  868. Ge0rG

    jonasw had the better polished wording

  869. pep.


  870. winfried

    everything said here holds on the content too, except for MAM storage

  871. jonasw


  872. pep.

    winfried, how does it not include MAM

  873. jonasw

    winfried, how’s MAM storage different?

  874. pep.

    Plan for next?

  875. winfried

    that one is legitimate interest of third party (maintaining a log)

  876. winfried

    (art 6.1f)

  877. Ge0rG

    winfried: with the receiver being the third party?

  878. pep.

    winfried, third-party as is recipient? That falls under "messages send to other users are subject to policies those users agreed to"

  879. winfried


  880. jonasw

    what pep. says

  881. pep.

    winfried, third-party as is recipient? That falls under "messages sent to other users are subject to policies those users agreed to"

  882. jonasw

    I gotta run in a few mins, plan for next?

  883. winfried

    jonasw: yes

  884. jonasw

    I don’t have time tomorrow or on Wed

  885. winfried

    thursday same time?

  886. jonasw

    Thu or Fri would work, usual time

  887. jonasw

    Thu 12:30 CEST

  888. pep.

    Thu same time worksforme

  889. jonasw

    Ge0rG, ^

  890. Valerian has left

  891. Ge0rG

    +1 on either

  892. jonasw

    it’s settled then

  893. jonasw

    anything else?

  894. winfried

    Thu 12:30 CEST

  895. winfried

    Good work again!

  896. pep.

    We've covered credentials, User metadata/data (C2S/S2S) then

  897. jonasw

    thanks all!

  898. jonasw

    heading out now

  899. winfried

    pep.: much applies to content to

  900. winfried

    jonasw: good luck!

  901. pep.

    yes, "data"

  902. pep.

    ah it's called content

  903. pep.


  904. pep.

    hmm, instead of "messages", we should say "Stanza" probably?

  905. winfried

    pep.: if you mail the logs, then I will try to update the schedule

  906. winfried

    pep.: +1

  907. pep.

    Or something that the end-user can undertand

  908. Zash

    I pandoc'd this https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/GDPR/Table if that's fine

  909. pep.

    instead of stanza

  910. winfried

    Zash: yes, that would be great!

  911. pep.

    Zash, nice

  912. SamWhited has joined

  913. winfried

    Any possibilities to add lines between the fields?

  914. winfried

    Zash: it *IS* great, thanks a lot!

  915. Zash

    I don't know, I'm not /that/ familiar with mediawiki syntax.

  916. winfried

    Zash: I will have look myself otherwise...

  917. Zash

    Please do, it's a wiki after all :)

  918. winfried

    Zash: :-D

  919. pep.

    Zash, do I include you in the participants? :)

  920. Zash

    pep.: Maybe a little? I barely follow this tho.

  921. pep.

    winfried, today's minutes compress well :P

  922. jubalh has joined

  923. winfried

    pep.: I also took some notes myself, but they are not objective ;-)

  924. SamWhited has left

  925. winfried

    Zash: lines added...

  926. jere has joined

  927. pep.

    winfried, https://bpaste.net/show/23e279a44f9e

  928. pep.

    I'm going to send this

  929. winfried

    pep.: great!

  930. daniel has left

  931. pep.

    I'll include a link to the table as well

  932. winfried

    pep.: missing the 'inform server operators' from the logs ;-)

  933. pep.

    at what point

  934. ludo has joined

  935. winfried

    [12:53:14] <winfried> I guess we need to inform server operators about the limits here

  936. pep.

    I meant, where does that go

  937. pep.

    what limits

  938. moparisthebest has joined

  939. winfried

    It is about the limits of using art 6.1b and 49.1b

  940. pep.

    Also I should include Ge0rG's points on the EULA XEP

  941. pep.

    And that it won't be tackled during this meeting

  942. winfried

    so it is a limit to what processing can be handled with this EULA template

  943. pep.


  944. jere has joined

  945. winfried

    Have to go now, other business to attend...

  946. winfried

    thanks, pep.

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  1347. dwd

    That was an easy email to write. :-)

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  1353. Zash

    Impressive diversity in formulating your statements.

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  1355. dwd

    Repetition is a powerful argument of its own.

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  1405. Ge0rG

    I suppose everyone is free to pick their weapons

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