jonaswmarmistrz, well, the XSF can’t and won’t give you legal advice on that matter
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jonaswwe will work on a guideline of things you should definitely look into, and a few non-legal opinions on things
jonaswbut that’s in no way legal advice
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jonaswGe0rG, any news on your schedule w.r.t. GDPR meeting?
jonasw(tomorrow, 12:30 CEST)
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Ge0rGCan't do tomorrow 12:30 (lunch break)
jonaswGe0rG, winfried, pep., what would work for you instead?
pep.any, not later on friday as usual
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Ge0rGI've got some time after the 25th.
Ge0rGSorry, not funny.
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winfriedGe0rG: any way we can keep you involved while not attending the meetings, or is your schedule too packed for that too?
winfried(BTW, I do like the 25th pun)
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Ge0rGwinfried: my problem is that I'm fully booked on a project that just began today, so I need to be available on short notice. I can't schedule anything for the next days, except Friday and *maybe* Thursday.
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winfriedjonasw pep. Ge0rG I propose we will meet tomorrow without Ge0rG and friday in full? (both 12:30 CEST)
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Ge0rGIt might work for me at 11:30 or 13:30 tomorrow, but I can't say for sure.
winfriedboth 11:30 and 13:00 tomorrow wfm
Ge0rGBut please don't nail me on either.
Ge0rGJust saying that it won't work at 1230 for sure.
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winfriedGe0rG: I understand, won't nail you for it
jonaswwinfried, pep., I’m fully available except Thursday and late Friday
Ge0rGExcept maybe with NIN.
jonaswso 1130 CEST would workforme tomorrow
jonaswor 1330 CEST, I think I’d prefer the latter slightly
Ge0rGOr is it NIИ?
winfriedGe0rG: NIИ, that is a youth memory!
winfriedjonasw: would friday 1330 CEST work for you or is that to late?
jonaswwinfried, that would work
winfriedjonasw: oops, meant to ask 12:30 on friday , but 13:30 would work for me too ;-)
jonaswwinfried, 1330 works better than 1230 on friday, I think :)
winfriedpep.: would tomorrow at 13:30 CEST AND friday at 13:30 fit you? Ge0rG may then attend tomorrow and friday for sure (correct Ge0rG ?)
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Ge0rGwinfried: besides of the music, I also loved the Quake1 ammunition...
Ge0rGwinfried: I can't promise it 100% yet, sorry.
winfriedGe0rG: sorry, I am from the wulfenstein era ;-)
Ge0rGwinfried: "Mein Leben!"
jonaswmy new portable digital audio player unfortunately cannot run doom anymore
jonaswnot enough colors (1 bit color depth)
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Ge0rGhttps://op-co.de/vr3/files/doom.gif - I had doom running on my first Linux PDA.
jonaswthat’s more than one bit ;-)
Ge0rGLast modified 2004-01-31 18:48. Wow, that's less than I thought it'd be.
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jonasw(granted, people *did* run doom on black/white LCD TI Voyage 200 calculators by tricking the display into displaying 2 bit grayscale or something)
edhelas> That said, I think that main problem with Jabber is lack of a single entity pushing it. So it'll naturally lose fight against corporation with billion-dollar marketing budgets. With Matrix it might be better.
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edhelas:D
edhelaslet's built a decentralized network, but handled by a single entity :-°
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danielWait the performance of the matrix server is so bad that had to disable presence?
Ge0rGWhere can I find old versions of XEP-0045 (which define the GC1 behavior)
danielIs this for real 😂
Wiktormaybe that's just me but I think they have a point, Arathorn is very active both on social media, and getting publicity (French government case), they operate like a corporation but Matrix is still federated (anyone can run the instance etc.)
gofficatching a bit conversation on standard@ after a while, for the record I'm strongly willing/needing a deletion mechanism for file sharing (I'm not using HTTP upload, but would be nice to make it generic enough so it can be used by HTTP upload). I was planing to use ad-hoc commands for that, and propose a XEP after testing on the field.
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ZashWhat came first, Jabber Inc. or the JSF?
Ge0rGhttps://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/ only goes back to 1.16 :(
edhelasdaniel you don't have performance problems anymore if you remove the heavy features
danielI mean honestly I want to like matrix. And I actually hope they will succeed. They do some (non technical) things a lot better than the jabber community or the xsf
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danielBut from all I hear their stack is just polished shit just as xmpp is
ZashMarketing?
ZashIt'd be nice if they had learned from XMPP, but from what I can see, they're following the exact same path.
danielYeah Marketing fundraising to employ full time people. Their way of extending the standard that you basically have to submit a PR for the spec, the implementation in the server and the client at the same time
ZashI'm sure Jabber was just as cool back when there was one client, one server, transports were all the rage and Jabber Inc. wasn't bought by Cisco yet.
ZashJust wait until there are more than one of independently developed servers and clients, it'll be exactly the same as XMPP.
danielRumor has that they are actively discouraging new server implementations
goffiZash: that's one of the main issue I have with matrix (with their initial aggressivity with XMPP), it's all controlled by one company and a few people.
ZashWasn't the excuse for the reference server being slow "but we're rewriting it in rust!!!"
HolgerGo!
ZashSamesame
HolgerYeah their server story looks like a desaster.
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ZashBut otoh, Jabber was started as an open source project, not as/by a company with a marketing budget.
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Zash> List of acquisitions by Cisco Systems (redirect from Jabber, Inc.)
Heh
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edhelas2019, Cisco is buying Matrix.inc
ZashWhat about going through the IETF and having a (Software|Standards) Foundation?
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danielI mean in a way it's interesting to see how their approach pans out in the next 5-10 years
danielIf it's still a somewhat open standard in 10 years that you could federate with their approach might have been proven more effective
danielI don't think there is anything inherently bad with a single company providing the reference implementation. As long as you always have the *option* of forking while still federation
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daniel*federating
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winfriedI think the real problem is the difference between an open chat application like Matrix and an ecosystem like XMPP. Getting started is *much* harder in the ecosystem, but in the long run you want an ecosystem not just one implementation.
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Zashwinfried: Doesn't that depend somewhat on who "you" are, and what their goals are?
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Andrew NenakhovMatrix uniformity comes from it's relative obscurity. Once it will have multiple implementations, it'll be absolutely same as XMPP.
moparisthebestexcept without the specs/documentation ?
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Wiktormoparisthebest: you mean that https://matrix.org/docs/spec/ ?
Andrew NenakhovAnd of course they are less obsessed with this crypto bullshit
danielAre they?
moparisthebestdidn't they develop OLM themselves?
winfriedZash: don't think so, when maintaining a system for a longer time then 5-7 years, you want an ecosystem, not just one application. Up to that point funding, acquiring technology/knowledge etc is easier when you use a monolithic code base. Once you are up to your first big overhaul, you get your regrets. No matter who you are and what your goal is....
pep.What about some projects applying for MOSS funding
pep.Xmpp projects
Zashwinfried: I mean like, a company wanting ultimate control, do they want an ecosystem? Or like, Signal.
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winfriedZash: If I want ultimate control, I can still use the XMPP ecosystem as codebase. In matter of fact, I expect most XMPP deployments are exactly like that!
MattJ.
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MattJIs it me or is the xmpp.org website slow?
jonaswI think it might be you
Zash1.78s
jonaswloads fine here
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ZashMattJ: You've just gotten spoiled by how blazing fast the new prosody.im site is ;)
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Link MauveAbout 1.8s here for prosody.im’s home page. :p
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MattJHmm, the link to compliance suites on https://xmpp.org/extensions/ is outdated
ZashGe0rG: Looks like the origin of the direct invite namespace https://web.archive.org/web/20020214222508/http://docs.jabber.org:80/draft-proto/html/conferencing.html
jonasw<message type="groupchat" from="act3@gc.denmark">
<body>Hamlet has arrived.</body>
</message>
jonaswinteresting
jonaswa precedent for messages from the bare MUC JID :)