XSF Discussion - 2018-05-17

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  189. Link Mauve jonasw, for you! https://shop.spreadshirt.com/imfreedom/
  190. Seve/SouL That's super cool
  191. edhelas so vintage tech t-shirts <3
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  218. pep. For more motivation
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  265. jonasw Link Mauve, I’ll take the ruffle shirt, thanks
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  366. moparisthebest Wow is their logo mostly commas now?
  367. jonasw hah
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  381. ta and a flying rat as mascott
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  383. nyco Hey board, I am sorry, I am in a long meeting, I won't be able to join our weekly
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  387. MattJ nyco, noted, thanks
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  390. Guus o/
  391. Guus Martin's not here, I think?
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  394. Guus ralphm?
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  396. Guus I guess it's just you and me, MattJ
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  398. Guus MattJ, is there anything you want to discuss, our shall we skip this week?
  399. Guus Is there anyone else that was waiting for a board meeting to bring something up?
  400. MattJ Here
  401. MattJ (sorry, was distracted a moment)
  402. MattJ I'm fine with skipping
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  404. Guus okay - until the next time, then.
  405. Guus adieu
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  408. Anu What is everyone else’s GDPR plan?
  409. MattJ Hide
  410. MattJ After burying all the data in the back yard
  411. mrdoctorwho I can't believe this thing got accepted
  412. Anu haha
  413. Zash Step 1: Don't be a company. Step 2: ??? Step 3: PROFI.. wait no
  414. Anu I’ve decide to just just block the EU
  415. Zash Thanks for encouraging our internal market.
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  417. Anu The need for a data protection officer who is basically a lawyer killed it for me
  418. mrdoctorwho what if they use proxy and then sue you for storing their data?
  419. Anu Nah you can still get the source and compile it
  420. Anu im just not distributing it directly myself in the app store
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  422. Zash This really shouldn't be an issue for client authors. Except mobile push cloud notifications...
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  424. Anu Yup push
  425. Anu and crash logging
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  427. Anu But regardless the burden is on you to prove you are compliant to regulators
  428. Anu thus the DPO
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  434. mrdoctorwho it's the first time I'm happy I don't live in the EU
  435. Anu i spend a lot of time in europe
  436. Holger Well I don't think there's a requirement to have a DPO for a push service.
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  438. Anu I believe there is, yes. You are processing data and the token can be combined with other info to uniquely identify a user so it is PII
  439. Anu also you need to set up a register and document data processing and retention policies etc
  440. MattJ mrdoctorwho, depends on your perspective. As a user, isn't GDPR great?
  441. Anu For me personally I felt it was safest to just let people compile it it they want it and block EU users from push
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  445. daniel MattJ: depends. Time will tell if those ad tracking firms will go out of business
  446. Anu They won’t because they can afford to meet the letter of the law
  447. daniel Thus far I haven't experienced any differences from a user's perspective
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  449. daniel Anu: it's complicated
  450. Anu If you have the money and development resources, its totally doable
  451. daniel They'd have to ask for consent
  452. daniel And that essentially breaks their business model
  453. Anu the two biggest advertisers are google and facebook
  454. Anu Both will be fine
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  456. daniel Only if you are a costumer of them. And consented to them tracking you
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  458. daniel But yes those companies will have fewer issues than the traditional ad companies
  459. jonasw daniel, actually, I’ve seen quite a few spamy things which asked for consent
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  461. Holger Anu: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN#d1e3732-1-1
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  463. daniel jonasw: sure they can try. But I don't think a lot of people will klick yes
  464. Holger Anu: I would've thought neither (a) nor (b) nor (c) applies.
  465. Anu funny thing, ive works with mobile advertisers they were already doing things that were illegal the US. I dont think a eu law change with modify that
  466. jonasw daniel, exactly
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  468. Link Mauve Anu, we’re preparing to attack both Google and Facebook (and a few other ones), see https://gafam.laquadrature.net/ (use a translator if you don’t read French).
  469. SamWhited I'm loving it from a users perspective, all the companies that can't be bothered to even try to protect user data or that were selling it and don't want to admit it are shutting down or putting up notices about how itm'
  470. Anu I spend time in France, im familiar with gafam (a term ive never seen used outside btw)
  471. SamWhited …it's no 'onger available in the EU
  472. SamWhited *sigh* stupid phone keyboard.
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  474. Ge0rG Anu: is https://monal.im/blog/gdpr-removing-monal-from-the-eu/ your plan?
  475. Anu yup
  476. Ge0rG That's... unfortunate.
  477. Anu At least until things clear up, id rather not get in trouble while in europe
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  479. Ge0rG I was just going to recomment Monal to my iOSy family members.
  480. Anu sorry :(
  481. Anu I dont know what chat secure will do, ive asked chris
  482. Anu Hes going to have to deal with the same issues
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  484. Ge0rG Everybody is going to.
  485. Anu yup
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  487. mrdoctorwho MattJ: yes and no, I mainly agree with daniel
  488. Anu He might have more resources than me since I think he’s funded by something
  489. Ge0rG We should add that to our next GDPR meeting. pep., winfried: Cloud-Notify / Push servers are sufficiently on-topic
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  491. Ge0rG Anu: I'm not convinced he has a regular project funding
  492. Anu ah
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  495. Ge0rG Anu: ChatSecure development has slowed down in the last year or so, from what I can see.
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  497. Ge0rG on iOS. And I'm not sure anything at all is happening on Android. They wanted to migrate to the Conversations code base.
  498. daniel i either used to or still has. i'm not really sure. i think it ran out at the end of last year
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  500. Anu What sucks about GDPR is I am prepping the next monal version with OMEMO and push
  501. daniel he either used to or still has. i'm not really sure. i think it ran out at the end of last year
  502. Anu both on iOS and mac
  503. Anu Mac will have the binary on the website outside of the App Store so people could just grab it there and there isn’t a push requirement
  504. Anu Hah I should put text there asking EU users to not download it like in the old days where you could download the US version of netscape with better encryption or the international one
  505. Ge0rG Anu: is there a specific reason for you pulling out, or just lack of time to ensure overall compliance?
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  508. Anu lack of financial means to ensure compliance on a regular basis.
  509. Anu Its hard to do with a non commercial, free app
  510. Anu GDPR is designed for institutions that can afford it. I dont know how everyone else will deal with it
  511. Ge0rG Somehow we will.
  512. Ge0rG BigCorps are paying millions to consultants to ensure compliance.
  513. Anu Yes, I do it as my day job
  514. moparisthebest Anu, yea if you don't target EU citizens you don't need to comply with the GDPR so I'd just do that 'EU users must not download this'
  515. Anu well no
  516. Anu Its anything that MAY be used by a EU natural person
  517. moparisthebest no it's not, looking for link...
  518. moparisthebest https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/application-regulation/who-does-data-protection-law-apply_en
  519. moparisthebest Provided your company doesn't specifically target its services at individuals in the EU, it is not subject to the rules of the GDPR.
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  526. Anu i think we are in agreement on that part, thats why im removing it from EU app store
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  529. Ge0rG Anu: will it also be auto-uninstalled from EU iPhones? :P
  530. Anu Nah since people can also just side load it if they want it
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  532. Ge0rG I thought you need XCode and what not to sideload an ipa
  533. Anu there are a few ways to do it. Most of my users are enterprise users
  534. Anu They can deal with it
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  537. Anu @Ge0rG, how do you plan on handling GDPR with yax.im?
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  539. Ge0rG Anu: I'll extend the data processing policy according to what we figure out in the XSF GDPR meetings, and will hope nobody sues me.
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  542. Anu GDPR comes into effect next week, going down to the wire :)
  543. Ge0rG Yeah.
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  545. Anu Do we know if federation is legal anymore
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  547. Zash Email isn't going to go away.
  548. Ge0rG Anu: we don't *know* anything. We only make informed speculations
  549. jonasw s/informed/uninformed/
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  551. Ge0rG jonasw: only speaking for yourself
  552. jonasw also, this creates a loop leading to unununununununununinformed
  553. jonasw (and more)
  554. Anu Haha
  555. Ge0rG while (regex.matches()) do { regex.apply() }
  556. Ge0rG infinite loop of jonasw
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  560. pep. > Ge0rG> We should add that to our next GDPR meeting. pep., winfried: Cloud-Notify / Push servers are sufficiently on-topic Gotcha
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  562. Anu i would say xep-0080 and anything else that deals with lat/long
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  564. Ge0rG Anu: I don't see how that's principally different from user content
  565. Anu true
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