XSF Discussion - 2018-05-28

would be great if somebody with power would set a room description for this room

Good morning

jonasw: I've been asking that for years

MattJ, the email on the survey is requested to be able to match which member filled the survey, isn't it?

Would like to know where are you going to check that, because I think my information is outdated

Seve/SouL, just leave a comment that it's you, it'll be fine (but maybe ask Alex to update your info too)

MattJ, I think you /do/ have the power, can you set a room description for this room please? :)

Done

nice :)

Hey, some people where asking about my work on file sharing using Jingle here, I've written a blog post about it: https://www.goffi.org/b/hGKs6B4wd8dsgNZd5MzQjN/file-sharing-landing-next-release-salut

were*

anybody knows an admin of jabber.org?

Kev? stpeter? Just guessing.

to whom it may concern: there is a MUC with the address '@conference.jabber.org' (yes, without localpart) in the disco#items result. you probably want to sort this out.

jonasw: shouldn't it be 'conference.jabber.org' then? Prosody even allows joining the MUC domain.

Crazy shit, but not explicitly forbidden.

Ge0rG, @conference.jabber.org is an invalid JID. asking what it "should be" then is futile. it should never have existed.

in any case it prevents aioxmpp from processing the disco#items result and I refuse to add a workaround for that.

jonasw: that's noble. I'm sure that will show 'em!

Ge0rG, *shrug*, the remainder of the list looks like auto-created arabic spam rooms

so I don’t worry too much about the loss of information.

but then again, what’s a client lib to do in this case? you can’t give the broken JID to the application, because giving broken stuff to the application which it might later use to send things to which in turn would lead to errors/stream termination is bad. returning an error instead of even a part of the listing is bad. returning the incomplete listing (removing the entry with the broken JID) is bad.

currently I’m at option 2 (return an error instead of the disco#items response). option 3 would be viable, but I’m not sure if that messes with semantics too much

Throw your hands in the air

did that already

to my face actually

didn’t help though

force your server to close down the s2s connection!

...via adhoc admin command

<--- lovetox has left the room (Stream closed by us: Improper 'from' attribute (invalid-from)) See, it works!

you know that I can’t check that because my client doesn’t show joins/leaves!

jonasw, what do you do on invalid data in other cases?

Zash, return an error to the application instead of the response

jonasw, do that then

that’s what I do

(option 2)

Ah, you said that, sorry, coffee hasn't kicked in yet

Seems I'm ♪ doing what frozen things do - in summer!! ♫

melting?

Brain melting or something

goffi: thanks! Reading

Shouldn't the formtypes be here too https://xmpp.org/registrar/muc.html

Zash, forms are here: https://xmpp.org/registrar/formtypes.html

but yes, the registry is incomplete and out of date

somebody™ needs to fix that

Can't find a link from xep45 :|

Hah

It has `muc#maxhistoryfetch`

Prosody has `muc#roomconfig_historylength` and `muc#roomconfig_defaulthistorymessages`

And `muc#maxhistoryfetch` was added in 2012?

The others were added to prosody 2 months after?!

Looks like a mess

Hey what should happen if you have a password-protected MUC and someone queries MAM?

Also, does anyone actually use passwords in MUC? ✏

I do

ytho

Why what?

use passwords in muc

Indeed

Because passwords work better than member lists

Passwords in mucs are one of MUCs deadly sins.

How can I get in touch with Alex, please?

I will check the mailing lists and see if I can get his email

A MUC password isn't a password; it's an out-of-band invitation mechanism.

It might sound odd but it may be beneficial for adoption for xmpp to take the best ideas from slack

It’s what people use and expect

Take the best ideas from all the things

If there is a tool that is heavily used, it saves the need to retrain

Part of the friction for non enterprise xmpp use is that you need to teach people how to use it

Just remember that popularity does not mean quality or anything.

Nope but it eases moving from one to another

You might think that, but I don't ✏

Xmpp is the way it is because of that I’m clients in the 90s

And irc

If you try to be a clone of some other thing, you will forever be playing a game of catch-up

Things people don’t use anymore

You can't win that

You can't make a clone clone be better.

You win by being different in some way that turned out to be even better.

Slack is an irc clone and even had an xmpp interface

It’s winning for a reason

Anu, any specific things we should be stealing? :)

Nicer bot integration, buttons and stuff was discussed a while ago

Org set up

As an old console client irc user, I have no idea what Slack does and what parts are worth being "inspired by"

You can create and org where users are isolated from outside

And they can create their own channels inside, break out into adhoc group chats

It’s why we use it

And why can't you do that with XMPP?

You “can”