XSF Discussion - 2018-05-28


  1. jonasw

    would be great if somebody with power would set a room description for this room

  2. Seve/SouL

    Good morning

  3. Ge0rG

    jonasw: I've been asking that for years

  4. Seve/SouL

    MattJ, the email on the survey is requested to be able to match which member filled the survey, isn't it?

  5. Seve/SouL

    Would like to know where are you going to check that, because I think my information is outdated

  6. MattJ

    Seve/SouL, just leave a comment that it's you, it'll be fine (but maybe ask Alex to update your info too)

  7. jonasw

    MattJ, I think you /do/ have the power, can you set a room description for this room please? :)

  8. MattJ

    Done

  9. jonasw

    nice :)

  10. goffi

    Hey, some people where asking about my work on file sharing using Jingle here, I've written a blog post about it: https://www.goffi.org/b/hGKs6B4wd8dsgNZd5MzQjN/file-sharing-landing-next-release-salut

  11. goffi

    were*

  12. jonasw

    anybody knows an admin of jabber.org?

  13. Ge0rG

    Kev? stpeter? Just guessing.

  14. jonasw

    to whom it may concern: there is a MUC with the address '@conference.jabber.org' (yes, without localpart) in the disco#items result. you probably want to sort this out.

  15. Ge0rG

    jonasw: shouldn't it be 'conference.jabber.org' then? Prosody even allows joining the MUC domain.

  16. Ge0rG

    Crazy shit, but not explicitly forbidden.

  17. jonasw

    Ge0rG, @conference.jabber.org is an invalid JID. asking what it "should be" then is futile. it should never have existed.

  18. jonasw

    in any case it prevents aioxmpp from processing the disco#items result and I refuse to add a workaround for that.

  19. Ge0rG

    jonasw: that's noble. I'm sure that will show 'em!

  20. jonasw

    Ge0rG, *shrug*, the remainder of the list looks like auto-created arabic spam rooms

  21. jonasw

    so I don’t worry too much about the loss of information.

  22. jonasw

    but then again, what’s a client lib to do in this case? you can’t give the broken JID to the application, because giving broken stuff to the application which it might later use to send things to which in turn would lead to errors/stream termination is bad. returning an error instead of even a part of the listing is bad. returning the incomplete listing (removing the entry with the broken JID) is bad.

  23. jonasw

    currently I’m at option 2 (return an error instead of the disco#items response). option 3 would be viable, but I’m not sure if that messes with semantics too much

  24. Zash

    Throw your hands in the air

  25. jonasw

    did that already

  26. jonasw

    to my face actually

  27. jonasw

    didn’t help though

  28. Ge0rG

    force your server to close down the s2s connection!

  29. Ge0rG

    ...via adhoc admin command

  30. Ge0rG

    <--- lovetox has left the room (Stream closed by us: Improper 'from' attribute (invalid-from)) See, it works!

  31. jonasw

    you know that I can’t check that because my client doesn’t show joins/leaves!

  32. Zash

    jonasw, what do you do on invalid data in other cases?

  33. jonasw

    Zash, return an error to the application instead of the response

  34. Zash

    jonasw, do that then

  35. jonasw

    that’s what I do

  36. jonasw

    (option 2)

  37. Zash

    Ah, you said that, sorry, coffee hasn't kicked in yet

  38. Zash

    Seems I'm ♪ doing what frozen things do - in summer!! ♫

  39. jonasw

    melting?

  40. Zash

    Brain melting or something

  41. pep.

    goffi: thanks! Reading

  42. Zash

    Shouldn't the formtypes be here too https://xmpp.org/registrar/muc.html

  43. jonasw

    Zash, forms are here: https://xmpp.org/registrar/formtypes.html

  44. jonasw

    but yes, the registry is incomplete and out of date

  45. jonasw

    somebody™ needs to fix that

  46. Zash

    Can't find a link from xep45 :|

  47. Zash

    Hah

  48. Zash

    It has `muc#maxhistoryfetch`

  49. Zash

    Prosody has `muc#roomconfig_historylength` and `muc#roomconfig_defaulthistorymessages`

  50. Zash

    And `muc#maxhistoryfetch` was added in 2012?

  51. Zash

    The others were added to prosody 2 months after?!

  52. Zash

    Looks like a mess

  53. Zash

    Hey what should happen if you have a password-protected MUC and someone queries MAM?

  54. Zash

    Also, does anyone actually use passwords?

  55. Zash

    Also, does anyone actually use passwords in MUC?

  56. Ge0rG

    I do

  57. jonasw

    ytho

  58. Zash

    Why what?

  59. jonasw

    use passwords in muc

  60. Zash

    Indeed

  61. Ge0rG

    Because passwords work better than member lists

  62. Andrew Nenakhov

    Passwords in mucs are one of MUCs deadly sins.

  63. Seve/SouL

    How can I get in touch with Alex, please?

  64. Seve/SouL

    I will check the mailing lists and see if I can get his email

  65. dwd

    A MUC password isn't a password; it's an out-of-band invitation mechanism.

  66. Anu

    It might sound odd but it may be beneficial for adoption for xmpp to take the best ideas from slack

  67. Anu

    It’s what people use and expect

  68. Zash

    Take the best ideas from all the things

  69. Anu

    If there is a tool that is heavily used, it saves the need to retrain

  70. Anu

    Part of the friction for non enterprise xmpp use is that you need to teach people how to use it

  71. Zash

    Just remember that popularity does not mean quality or anything.

  72. Anu

    Nope but it eases moving from one to another

  73. Zash

    You might thing that, but I don't

  74. Zash

    You might think that, but I don't

  75. Anu

    Xmpp is the way it is because of that I’m clients in the 90s

  76. Anu

    And irc

  77. Zash

    If you try to be a clone of some other thing, you will forever be playing a game of catch-up

  78. Anu

    Things people don’t use anymore

  79. Zash

    You can't win that

  80. Zash

    You can't make a clone clone be better.

  81. Zash

    You win by being different in some way that turned out to be even better.

  82. Anu

    Slack is an irc clone and even had an xmpp interface

  83. Anu

    It’s winning for a reason

  84. Zash

    Anu, any specific things we should be stealing? :)

  85. Zash

    Nicer bot integration, buttons and stuff was discussed a while ago

  86. Anu

    Org set up

  87. Zash

    As an old console client irc user, I have no idea what Slack does and what parts are worth being "inspired by"

  88. Anu

    You can create and org where users are isolated from outside

  89. Anu

    And they can create their own channels inside, break out into adhoc group chats

  90. Anu

    It’s why we use it

  91. Zash

    And why can't you do that with XMPP?

  92. Anu

    You “can”