XSF Discussion - 2018-06-04


  1. la|r|ma has joined

  2. j.r has joined

  3. j.r has joined

  4. pep. has left

  5. Dave Cridland has left

  6. Dave Cridland has joined

  7. Dave Cridland has left

  8. Dave Cridland has joined

  9. lskdjf has joined

  10. Dave Cridland has left

  11. Dave Cridland has joined

  12. Dave Cridland has left

  13. Dave Cridland has joined

  14. Dave Cridland has left

  15. Dave Cridland has joined

  16. jjrh has left

  17. jjrh has left

  18. jjrh has left

  19. ta has joined

  20. ta has joined

  21. lumi has left

  22. j.r has joined

  23. j.r has joined

  24. Dave Cridland has left

  25. Dave Cridland has joined

  26. xnyhps has joined

  27. moparisthebest has joined

  28. alacer has joined

  29. rtq3 has joined

  30. Dave Cridland has left

  31. Dave Cridland has joined

  32. alacer has left

  33. alacer has joined

  34. rtq3 has left

  35. j.r has joined

  36. waqas has left

  37. j.r has joined

  38. rishiraj22 has left

  39. rishiraj22 has joined

  40. tux has left

  41. tux has joined

  42. SamWhited has left

  43. SaltyBones has left

  44. SaltyBones has joined

  45. Dave Cridland has left

  46. Dave Cridland has joined

  47. Dave Cridland has left

  48. Dave Cridland has joined

  49. j.r has joined

  50. Dave Cridland has left

  51. Dave Cridland has joined

  52. Dave Cridland has left

  53. Dave Cridland has joined

  54. j.r has joined

  55. Dave Cridland has left

  56. Dave Cridland has joined

  57. Dave Cridland has left

  58. Dave Cridland has joined

  59. alacer has left

  60. alacer has joined

  61. Dave Cridland has left

  62. Dave Cridland has joined

  63. Yagiza has joined

  64. Yagiza has left

  65. Yagiza has joined

  66. dos has left

  67. rtq3 has joined

  68. Dave Cridland has left

  69. Dave Cridland has joined

  70. Dave Cridland has left

  71. Dave Cridland has joined

  72. rtq3 has left

  73. dos has joined

  74. dos has left

  75. Dave Cridland has left

  76. Dave Cridland has joined

  77. Dave Cridland has left

  78. Dave Cridland has joined

  79. Kev has left

  80. j.r has joined

  81. j.r has joined

  82. jere has joined

  83. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  84. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  85. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  86. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  87. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  88. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  89. igor75 has left

  90. igor75 has joined

  91. j.r has joined

  92. mrdoctorwho has joined

  93. j.r has joined

  94. lorddavidiii has joined

  95. Dave Cridland has left

  96. Dave Cridland has joined

  97. ibikk has joined

  98. alacer has left

  99. alacer has joined

  100. alacer has left

  101. alacer has joined

  102. Nekit has joined

  103. waqas has joined

  104. ta has left

  105. alacer has left

  106. SamWhited has left

  107. xnyhps has left

  108. xnyhps has joined

  109. ta has left

  110. Valerian has joined

  111. Dave Cridland has left

  112. Dave Cridland has joined

  113. Dave Cridland has left

  114. Dave Cridland has joined

  115. jabberjocke has left

  116. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  117. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  118. Dave Cridland has left

  119. Dave Cridland has joined

  120. Dave Cridland has left

  121. Dave Cridland has joined

  122. j.r has joined

  123. j.r has joined

  124. blabla has left

  125. Dave Cridland has left

  126. Dave Cridland has joined

  127. Dave Cridland has left

  128. Dave Cridland has joined

  129. ta has joined

  130. ta has joined

  131. Dave Cridland has left

  132. Dave Cridland has joined

  133. Dave Cridland has left

  134. Dave Cridland has joined

  135. goffi has joined

  136. lnj has joined

  137. mrdoctorwho has joined

  138. moparisthebest has joined

  139. jonasw has left

  140. moparisthebest has joined

  141. blabla has left

  142. blabla has joined

  143. rtq3 has joined

  144. Dave Cridland has left

  145. Dave Cridland has joined

  146. Dave Cridland has left

  147. Dave Cridland has joined

  148. lnj has left

  149. ta has left

  150. andy has joined

  151. Ge0rG has joined

  152. rion has joined

  153. rtq3 has left

  154. daniel has left

  155. Guus has left

  156. Guus has left

  157. muppeth has joined

  158. Dave Cridland has left

  159. Guus has joined

  160. Dave Cridland has left

  161. jubalh has joined

  162. andy has left

  163. andy has joined

  164. Dave Cridland has left

  165. Chobbes has joined

  166. blabla has left

  167. blabla has joined

  168. lnj has joined

  169. mikaela has joined

  170. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  171. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  172. Dave Cridland has left

  173. muppeth has left

  174. muppeth has joined

  175. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  176. moparisthebest has joined

  177. tux has left

  178. nyco has left

  179. nyco has joined

  180. tux has joined

  181. moparisthebest has joined

  182. jubalh has joined

  183. Valerian has left

  184. jubalh has joined

  185. alacer has joined

  186. Ge0rG has left

  187. Dave Cridland has left

  188. Dave Cridland has joined

  189. lnj has left

  190. alacer has left

  191. moparisthebest has joined

  192. mimi89999 has joined

  193. lnj has joined

  194. jubalh has left

  195. Alex has joined

  196. moparisthebest has joined

  197. Ge0rG has left

  198. mimi89999 has joined

  199. Wiktor has joined

  200. Alex has left

  201. Dave Cridland has left

  202. Dave Cridland has joined

  203. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  204. valo has joined

  205. blabla has joined

  206. blabla has left

  207. j.r has left

  208. j.r has joined

  209. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  210. Guus has left

  211. ralphm has joined

  212. Steve Kille has left

  213. Steve Kille has left

  214. Guus has left

  215. jabberjocke has joined

  216. Steve Kille has joined

  217. rion has left

  218. jabberjocke has left

  219. Valerian has joined

  220. pep. has left

  221. Valerian has left

  222. Valerian has joined

  223. muppeth has joined

  224. rion has joined

  225. Valerian has left

  226. SaltyBones has left

  227. moparisthebest has joined

  228. moparisthebest has joined

  229. jubalh has joined

  230. Valerian has joined

  231. Valerian has left

  232. ralphm has left

  233. la|r|ma has joined

  234. Steve Kille has left

  235. Kev has left

  236. Steve Kille has joined

  237. Kev has joined

  238. la|r|ma has left

  239. la|r|ma has joined

  240. rishiraj22 has left

  241. rishiraj22 has joined

  242. marmistrz has joined

  243. marmistrz has joined

  244. Guus has left

  245. Guus has left

  246. SaltyBones has left

  247. jubalh has joined

  248. Guus has left

  249. andy has left

  250. andy has joined

  251. jubalh has joined

  252. marmistrz has left

  253. marmistrz has joined

  254. Guus has left

  255. andy has left

  256. andy has joined

  257. lnj has left

  258. Guus has left

  259. rion has left

  260. rion has joined

  261. moparisthebest has joined

  262. moparisthebest has joined

  263. Guus has left

  264. jubalh has left

  265. ralphm has joined

  266. Guus has left

  267. Guus has left

  268. Guus has joined

  269. Guus has left

  270. Guus has left

  271. jubalh has joined

  272. Guus has left

  273. Guus has left

  274. Guus has joined

  275. jubalh has joined

  276. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  277. rishiraj22 has left

  278. rishiraj22 has joined

  279. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  280. jubalh has joined

  281. Guus has left

  282. lskdjf has joined

  283. Guus has left

  284. mimi89999 has left

  285. Guus has left

  286. Guus has left

  287. Guus has joined

  288. mikaela has left

  289. valo has joined

  290. daniel has left

  291. lumi has joined

  292. daniel has left

  293. lnj has joined

  294. vanitasvitae has left

  295. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  296. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  297. lnj has left

  298. la|r|ma has joined

  299. lnj has joined

  300. la|r|ma has joined

  301. marmistrz has left

  302. SaltyBones has left

  303. mikaela has left

  304. Dave Cridland has left

  305. Dave Cridland has joined

  306. marmistrz has left

  307. Dave Cridland has left

  308. Dave Cridland has joined

  309. mikaela has left

  310. Dave Cridland has left

  311. Dave Cridland has joined

  312. lnj has left

  313. lskdjf has joined

  314. la|r|ma has left

  315. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  316. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  317. blabla has joined

  318. blabla has joined

  319. blabla has left

  320. blabla has joined

  321. rtq3 has joined

  322. Alex has joined

  323. Guus has left

  324. Guus has left

  325. Guus has left

  326. jubalh has left

  327. Guus has left

  328. jubalh has joined

  329. rishiraj22 has left

  330. rishiraj22 has left

  331. rishiraj22 has left

  332. mrdoctorwho has left

  333. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  334. jubalh has left

  335. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  336. rishiraj22 has left

  337. rishiraj22 has left

  338. rishiraj22 has left

  339. Guus has left

  340. mikaela has left

  341. rishiraj22 has left

  342. Ge0rG

    Dear XSF. We should write a blog post about how XMPP is the right solution to what's asked for by German Minsiter of Justice Katarina Barley regarding the opening of WhatsApp and other messengers.

  343. Ge0rG

    I'd volunteer the text, but who's the right person to approve that? comms team?

  344. jonasw

    Ge0rG, write the blogpost

  345. jonasw

    comms and possibly board

  346. rishiraj22 has left

  347. rishiraj22 has left

  348. Ge0rG

    "possibly board" frightens me.

  349. Guus has left

  350. Ge0rG

    I wouldn't be surprised if Board would decide that we can not promote XMPP because that wouldn't be neutral against other open IM protocols like SIP and Matrix.

  351. jonasw

    come on

  352. MattJ

    Ge0rG, I can't tell if you're just saying things like that to be provocative, or whether you really believe them. In either case I think it's sad

  353. Zash

    Haha

  354. jubalh has joined

  355. MattJ

    I know you want the same thing as I do, and I am also sad Pidgin is listed, but there is still no proposal as to any criteria by which it should be removed

  356. nyco has left

  357. MattJ

    I explicitly included a question about implementation neutrality in the members survey to try and resolve this kind of issue as well

  358. MattJ

    It will be one of the things we talk about in the next board meeting probably, but at a glance opinion is very divided, no clear consensus

  359. jonasw

    classic :)

  360. MattJ

    I believe, as others have concluded also, that the XSF is simply not the right vehicle for promoting XMPP to end users

  361. Wiktor

    Just out of curiosity, what is/would be the right vehicle?

  362. MattJ

    Anything from a group of like-minded people with free time, to a completely new foundation

  363. Alex has left

  364. MattJ

    I have some stuff I have been working on, which I gave a talk about at FOSDEM a few years ago

  365. Ge0rG

    Wiktor: we need a Jabber Software Foundation

  366. Wiktor

    Yes, but with s/Jabber/XMPP/... ;)

  367. MattJ

    s/Jabber/Brand name without trademark/

  368. Ge0rG

    except that "we" can't even decide whether "Jabber™" is burned due to a huge trademark minefield, or still the right term

  369. Wiktor

    Remember to use "Open", something like "Open Communications Alliance"

  370. Ge0rG

    Wiktor: "Jabber" is to "XMPP" what "Email" is to "SMTP+IMAP"

  371. Ge0rG

    "Open" is so f***ing burned.

  372. Wiktor

    I didn't know email was a registered trademark :(

  373. Wiktor

    maybe jabber got so popular that the trademark would not hold... but I don't want to be the one to check it out :)

  374. Ge0rG

    Wiktor: do you have better suggestions for a word that's assosicated with a worldwide federated IM network?

  375. jonasw

    Whats… oh you said federated

  376. Zash

    Steal "Fediverse"

  377. Wiktor

    Fediverse still has some sub-terms, like ActivityPub (protocol), Mastodon (product)

  378. Ge0rG

    Fediverse. I've heard that once or twice before.

  379. Seve/SouL

    Universal Chat

  380. Seve/SouL

    UChat

  381. Seve/SouL shurgs

  382. Ge0rG

    It's got like zero percent of brand awareness of XMPP.

  383. Wiktor

    Ge0rG, are you targetting people aware of XMPP or a broader audience?

  384. jonasw

    people aware of jabber

  385. jubalh has joined

  386. Ge0rG

    I claim that sufficiently many people are aware of Jabber that we should get our in-house trademark fight solved and promote the term properly.

  387. rishiraj22 has left

  388. andy has joined

  389. MattJ

    Ge0rG, so the solutions I see to that are 1) ignore it 2) ask Cisco to make it all ok [2a) have Cisco actually make it all ok]

  390. Wiktor

    Okay, personally I don't know any person that knows jabber but doesn't know xmpp, but maybe it doesn't hold "in the wild"

  391. Ge0rG

    MattJ: ignore what?

  392. MattJ

    That there is any trademark issue

  393. MattJ

    That's pretty much what everyone has done so far

  394. Seve/SouL

    Wiktor, and who knows about jabber just says 'oh, I remember, something old'

  395. Link Mauve

    Wiktor, at least here in France, and I’ve heard in Russia too, when you go around people are talking about Jabber.

  396. MattJ

    Indeed

  397. MattJ

    and people who know about XMPP tend to write Jabber/XMPP anyway

  398. Link Mauve

    Yeah.

  399. Link Mauve

    Or even just Jabber.

  400. Wiktor

    Yep, jabber is tainted with "old" and "doesn't work on mobile" in my experience :)

  401. jonasw

    Seve/SouL, when they say that, reply with "Great, something to wear at your wedding then!" and hand them a Jabber sticker

  402. Zash

    ZIMPY!!

  403. Wiktor

    One way or another this foundation to promote xmpp sounds like a really good idea, 👍

  404. Wiktor

    zimpy the zebra?

  405. Ge0rG

    MattJ: reading "Jabber/XMPP" hurts my eyes. every. single. time.

  406. Zash

    Ge0rG: Like GNU+Linux ?

  407. jonasw

    Ge0rG, make issues which are the opposite of what one other person is doing at the moment! https://github.com/jabbercat/jabbercat/issues/89

  408. Ge0rG

    jonasw: what? Me? Feeding the trolls?

  409. rishiraj22 has left

  410. rishiraj22 has left

  411. rishiraj22 has left

  412. rishiraj22 has left

  413. rishiraj22 has left

  414. Guus has left

  415. Guus has left

  416. Guus has joined

  417. rishiraj22 has left

  418. marmistrz has joined

  419. marmistrz has joined

  420. mikaela has joined

  421. rishiraj22 has left

  422. rishiraj22 has left

  423. mimi89999 has left

  424. rishiraj22 has left

  425. rishiraj22 has left

  426. jubalh has left

  427. rishiraj22 has left

  428. rishiraj22 has left

  429. pep. has left

  430. rishiraj22 has joined

  431. jubalh has joined

  432. rishiraj22 has left

  433. rishiraj22 has joined

  434. mikaela has joined

  435. moparisthebest has left

  436. rishiraj22 has left

  437. rishiraj22 has left

  438. jubalh has left

  439. marmistrz has joined

  440. rishiraj22 has left

  441. rishiraj22 has left

  442. Zash has left

  443. SaltyBones has left

  444. la|r|ma has joined

  445. la|r|ma has joined

  446. la|r|ma has joined

  447. Guus has left

  448. marmistrz has joined

  449. Alex has joined

  450. Guus has left

  451. mikaela has joined

  452. Guus has left

  453. efrit has joined

  454. Guus has left

  455. mikaela has left

  456. Guus has left

  457. Guus has left

  458. Guus has joined

  459. Guus has left

  460. Guus has left

  461. Guus has joined

  462. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  463. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  464. rtq3 has left

  465. dos has joined

  466. lorddavidiii has left

  467. mikaela has left

  468. rtq3 has joined

  469. vanitasvitae has left

  470. mikaela has left

  471. rishiraj22 has left

  472. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  473. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  474. mikaela has joined

  475. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  476. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  477. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  478. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  479. ralphm has joined

  480. lorddavidiii has left

  481. lorddavidiii has left

  482. marmistrz has left

  483. Syndace has left

  484. Syndace has joined

  485. efrit has left

  486. mimi89999 has left

  487. mikaela has joined

  488. mikaela has joined

  489. rishiraj22 has left

  490. jjrh has left

  491. jjrh has left

  492. rtq3 has left

  493. rtq3 has joined

  494. moparisthebest has joined

  495. Alex has left

  496. jere has joined

  497. marmistrz has left

  498. blabla has left

  499. blabla has joined

  500. rtq3 has left

  501. Alex has joined

  502. andy has left

  503. jubalh has joined

  504. SaltyBones has left

  505. la|r|ma has joined

  506. jubalh has left

  507. jjrh has left

  508. jjrh has left

  509. goffi has left

  510. ta has joined

  511. Alex has left

  512. Alex has joined

  513. Wiktor has left

  514. rishiraj22 has left

  515. Neustradamus has left

  516. pep.

    "random> so is XMPP moving to GitLab?"

  517. rishiraj22 has left

  518. Seve/SouL

    Hahaha

  519. Zash

    Why not go back to Mercurial? ;)

  520. jonasw

    "back"?

  521. Seve/SouL

    I was looking to mve to another apartment, I may move to GitLab as well

  522. pep.

    Seve/SouL, good idea

  523. jonasw

    if I apply that line of thought, I need $7.5e9 now.

  524. rion

    don't go to gitlab. otherwise MS will buy it!

  525. jonasw

    go to gitlab, everyone go to gitlab, and look how MS bites it’s own shiny metal thing when all the interesting stuff is gone from GitHub :)

  526. Zash

    Random post on the fediverse said Google was a huge investor in Gitlab already

  527. jubalh has joined

  528. Ge0rG

    Let's switch to self-hosted Gogs on Azure cloud instead.

  529. mrdoctorwho has joined

  530. jonasw

    s/Gogs/Gitea/

  531. Zash

    Kallithea?

  532. Ge0rG

    Whatever.

  533. goffi has left

  534. Ge0rG

    Let's do our own distributed code thing based on XMPP.

  535. jonasw

    kallithea is ugly

  536. Ge0rG

    And call it... WAVE

  537. Zash

    Ge0rG: PubSub! All the things!

  538. jonasw

    why the heck do code web view things think that the most interesting thing is the commit history?

  539. jonasw

    even years after github figured out that this is /not/ the case

  540. Ge0rG

    jonasw: the commit history is the whole pride of the developer!

  541. Kev

    jonasw: I think it depends who's viewing, actually.

  542. Kev

    But defaulting to code seems sensible to me.

  543. jonasw

    I’ve only a few times seen myself to check the commit history of a project on GitHub. And tohse times it wasn’t useful because I couldn’t skip to the point where I wanted to look. But that might just be me.

  544. Ge0rG

    I'd say the README is more important

  545. Ge0rG

    README and how old the code is

  546. jonasw

    github does it right imo

  547. Kev

    I think github does it right for github, yes.

  548. Kev

    But for our internal tools I look at commit histories of the repo more often than I look at the code through the web interface, I think.

  549. Kev

    Maybe I'm wrong about my habits.

  550. Ge0rG

    maybe you can bookmark the /commits path then ;)

  551. jonasw

    you’re not wrong about your habits :)

  552. Zash has left

  553. jonasw

    it may be useful for internal (but even in our internal gitlab I mostly look at files, not commit history; I typically have a clone already when I need commit history and look localy then)

  554. Kev

    But you don't look at the local copy for files? :)

  555. Kev

    Anyway, I think the github model is right for github at least.

  556. jonasw

    Kev, most of the time I need to link something to someone

  557. Kev

    Ah.

  558. Kev

    Yes, I use that for that :)

  559. jonasw

    or go for a quick reference in code which I don’t have cloned

  560. jubalh has left

  561. pep.

    > Ge0rG> Let's do our own distributed code thing based on XMPP. You might be joking, but sàt actually has an issue tracker already

  562. vanitasvitae

    They also do PRs right?

  563. Ge0rG

    pep.: I'm only half-joking.

  564. pep.

    vanitasvitae, I think so yes

  565. pep.

    goffi ^

  566. Ge0rG

    pep.: I'm well aware that the tech can be used for it. Unfortunately, we lack a dedicated developer team and something like 5M USD.

  567. pep.

    yep

  568. pep.

    Just like GitLab is talking about using ActivityPub for the federated thing and not xmpp

  569. jonasw

    buy microsoft shares

  570. Ge0rG

    Like... you know... we lack for IM over XMPP

  571. pep.

    Ge0rG, that'd be good to have indeed

  572. goffi has joined

  573. Zash has left

  574. ta has joined

  575. jubalh has joined

  576. muppeth has left

  577. Guus has left

  578. muppeth has joined

  579. Guus has left

  580. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  581. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  582. andy has joined

  583. jere has joined

  584. jere has joined

  585. nyco has joined

  586. jubalh has left

  587. edhelas

    pep. yes ActivityPub is taking over a lot of platforms

  588. edhelas

    what I think is missing is that XMPP is not "showing" things

  589. pep.

    showing?

  590. pep.

    You mean marketing?

  591. edhelas

    it's good we have Pubsub for 10 years, do you see any serious projects that is using it at the moment ?

  592. edhelas

    no, not marketing, just build stuff on it

  593. edhelas

    and also integrate it in existing projects

  594. Kev

    I know of very serious projects built on pubsub, yes.

  595. pep.

    Kev, do you have examples?

  596. pep.

    public examples

  597. Kev

    No, not that are for me to share.

  598. pep.

    k

  599. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  600. pep.

    Well that's not really helping the case

  601. edhelas

    this for example https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0070.html, it's a really nice XEP, let's integrate XMPP auth in Gitlab, Wikipedia…

  602. pep.

    edhelas, sure, go go send PRs

  603. goffi

    pep.: Ge0rG: I'm indeed working on forge tools, mainly for our own needs, but with some helping hand it could become nice ==> https://www.goffi.org/b/9555cc02-6a87-4b6b-af85-20f1c0736722

  604. muppeth has joined

  605. goffi

    edhelas: are you kidding ? I'm pushing for years for XEP-0070 and other stuff, and some people have followed (Chteufleur wrote his component after talking about XEP-0070 on DLFP, jnanar followed moment after with a demo website), but not enough. And yes ActivityPub is taking over where XMPP should have been.

  606. goffi

    years before Jehan also wrote a Wordpress plugin to use XEP-0070, but once again nobody followed

  607. goffi

    and that's the same story for nearly every feature of XMPP

  608. edhelas

    goffi that's what I said, there is some nice little projects, but it's hard to get traction

  609. MattJ

    XMPP adoption is not a problem that can be solved just by writing more code

  610. goffi

    MattJ: it's a combination of code, communication and luck

  611. daniel

    And concentrated power of will

  612. goffi

    MattJ: and something like XEP-0070 is super easy to integrate everywhere with Chteufleur component, and that's a good way to popularise XMPP IMHO.

  613. Seve/SouL

    goffi: +9999

  614. pep.

    daniel, I'm trying hard

  615. goffi

    There is a popular video showing comments post on Peertube and appearing in Mastodon, and everybody is amazed. That's something we do for many years between Movim and SàT (and Jappix when it was still in the game). It's a pitty to see that, but we have missed a great occasion, and now we'll have to deal with activityPub.

  616. pep.

    technology!!

  617. Zash

    Marketing marketing marketing

  618. MattJ

    goffi, well, Prosody has had a Pubsubhubbub bridge for a long long time, so there's no strict reason that the two protocols can't co-exist

  619. Zash

    MattJ: ActivityPub is completely different tho

  620. goffi

    MattJ: sure they can co-exist, but we have to do gateways, it's time to develop, energy to maintain, and machine resources to do the protocol conversion

  621. rion has left

  622. rishiraj22 has left

  623. Chobbes has left

  624. Chobbes has joined

  625. jubalh has joined

  626. ta has joined

  627. SaltyBones has left

  628. SaltyBones has left

  629. j.r has joined

  630. andy has left

  631. andy has joined

  632. andy has left

  633. andy has joined

  634. SaltyBones has joined

  635. marmistrz has left

  636. jubalh has left

  637. jubalh has joined

  638. jubalh has left

  639. jubalh has joined

  640. Kev has left

  641. jubalh has left

  642. jubalh has joined

  643. rishiraj22 has left

  644. Guus has left

  645. jubalh has left

  646. jubalh has joined

  647. Guus has left

  648. rtq3 has joined

  649. Guus has left

  650. rion has joined

  651. jubalh has joined

  652. Guus has left

  653. waqas has left

  654. Kev has left

  655. Guus has left

  656. Guus has left

  657. jjrh has left

  658. jjrh has left

  659. Guus has left

  660. jjrh has left

  661. Guus has left

  662. rishiraj22 has left

  663. Guus has left

  664. Valerian has joined

  665. Guus has left

  666. Steve Kille has left

  667. marc has joined

  668. alacer has joined

  669. Steve Kille has left

  670. rion has left

  671. rion has joined

  672. Dave Cridland has left

  673. Dave Cridland has joined

  674. j.r has joined

  675. j.r has joined

  676. rishiraj22 has left

  677. j.r has joined

  678. Dave Cridland has left

  679. Dave Cridland has joined

  680. j.r has joined

  681. Dave Cridland has left

  682. Dave Cridland has joined

  683. Dave Cridland has left

  684. Dave Cridland has joined

  685. Dave Cridland has left

  686. Dave Cridland has joined

  687. rishiraj22 has left

  688. rishiraj22 has left

  689. jjrh has left

  690. Guus has left

  691. rtq3 has left

  692. andy has left

  693. Steve Kille has joined

  694. Kev has joined

  695. Guus has left

  696. alacer has left

  697. Zash has left

  698. alacer has joined

  699. Ge0rG has left

  700. Ge0rG has left

  701. rishiraj22 has left

  702. Neustradamus has left

  703. vanitasvitae has left

  704. vanitasvitae has left

  705. vanitasvitae has left

  706. vanitasvitae has left

  707. j.r has joined

  708. j.r has joined

  709. Dave Cridland has left

  710. Dave Cridland has joined

  711. rion has left

  712. muppeth has joined

  713. efrit has joined

  714. Steve Kille has left

  715. vanitasvitae has left

  716. vanitasvitae has left

  717. Dave Cridland has left

  718. Dave Cridland has joined

  719. mikaela has left

  720. Valerian has left

  721. Dave Cridland has left

  722. Dave Cridland has joined

  723. Dave Cridland has left

  724. Dave Cridland has joined

  725. Yagiza has left

  726. alacer has left

  727. Guus has left

  728. Guus has left

  729. Guus has joined

  730. rion has joined

  731. rishiraj22 has left

  732. waqas has joined

  733. Dave Cridland has left

  734. Dave Cridland has joined

  735. nyco has left

  736. Guus has left

  737. jubalh has joined

  738. Wiktor

    note that ActivityPub is dead simple, it's specially formatted JSON and signed http messages

  739. Zash

    With an actor model and inboxes and whatnot.

  740. goffi

    well XMPP is specially formatted XML

  741. Wiktor

    inbox is just an endpoint that receives JSONs, "actor model" is another JSON with your name

  742. Zash

    OStatus is Atom feeds

  743. Zash

    Plain simple Atom feeds. Throw in some extra metadata. Be happy.

  744. Wiktor

    pff atom feeds, why all these brackets, twtxt is plain text files! https://rosaelefanten.org/twtxt.txt

  745. Wiktor

    ;)

  746. j.r has joined

  747. Wiktor

    doesn't OStatus use PubSubHubbub?

  748. Zash

    Yes

  749. Wiktor

    soo... it would be "easy" to roll an OStatus endpoint using Prosody sprinkled with some community modules?

  750. SamWhited has left

  751. Zash

    Wiktor: Yes. I had federation with GNU Social working a long time ago.

  752. Zash

    Salmon is where it gets complicated.

  753. Zash

    I'm assuming that "signed http messages" is on the same level.

  754. Wiktor

    well actually activitypub has two levels of signing, signed http requests are mandatory by Mastodon, they are quite easy but there is another thing, signed JSON messages, that is... mess... converting JSON into RDF and ordering that (canonicalization) and then signing, fortunately it's not required now

  755. Wiktor

    it's funny, all these protocols are just juggling with how to pass the same basic data, and struggling with some basic security (does message X come from Y)

  756. Zash

    You've convinced me. I won't be looking at ActivityPub anymore. Thanks for sparing me that madness.

  757. Zash

    Wiktor: The funny thing is that XMPP (or even email) has all those problems solved since literally forever.

  758. MattJ

    But can you run it on a shared web host?

  759. MattJ

    Oh wait, you can it seems

  760. Zash

    And the authentication part of PubSubHubbub is basically Dialback over HTTP

  761. Zash

    MattJ: "it"

  762. Wiktor

    I know Zash, I've been reading XMPP RFCs and XEPs since 15 years ago or so, but since then I'm more reserved

  763. Wiktor

    they could at least reuse the xmpp s2s idea of client certs, that's simpler than these crypto-security-dialbacks (also present in ActivityPub)

  764. MattJ

    Zash: The implementation OStatus was born from had the explicit goal of being in PHP and not requiring long lived processes

  765. muppeth has left

  766. MattJ

    Which meant no XMPP, except then it did

  767. Zash

    MattJ: Ah. But it doesn't even require that. You can make do with a static atom XML.

  768. Zash

    MattJ: Ah. But it doesn't even require that. You can make do with a static atom XML file.

  769. rtq3 has joined

  770. jere has joined

  771. jubalh has left

  772. jubalh has left

  773. j.r has joined

  774. jubalh has left

  775. jubalh has left

  776. igor75 has left

  777. muppeth has left

  778. muppeth has joined

  779. igor75 has joined

  780. jubalh has left

  781. jubalh has left

  782. goffi

    Oh PubsubHubHub has been renamed, didn't knew that

  783. goffi

    WebSub

  784. jubalh has joined

  785. jubalh has left

  786. jubalh has left

  787. jubalh has left

  788. jubalh has joined

  789. jjrh has left

  790. jubalh has left

  791. jubalh has joined

  792. andy has joined

  793. jubalh has left

  794. jubalh has joined

  795. jubalh has left

  796. jubalh has joined

  797. jjrh has left

  798. jjrh has left

  799. jubalh has left

  800. jubalh has joined

  801. ta has left

  802. ta has joined

  803. rtq3 has left

  804. rtq3 has joined

  805. jubalh has left

  806. jubalh has joined

  807. jjrh has left

  808. jjrh has left

  809. jubalh has left

  810. jubalh has joined

  811. jjrh has left

  812. jjrh has left

  813. jubalh has left

  814. jubalh has joined

  815. jjrh has left

  816. jubalh has left

  817. jubalh has joined

  818. jjrh has left

  819. jjrh has left

  820. jubalh has left

  821. jubalh has joined

  822. jere has joined

  823. jubalh has left

  824. jubalh has joined

  825. jubalh has left

  826. jubalh has joined

  827. mimi89999 has left

  828. jubalh has left

  829. jubalh has joined

  830. jubalh has left

  831. jubalh has joined

  832. rishiraj22 has left

  833. jubalh has left

  834. jubalh has joined

  835. Zash has left

  836. marmistrz has left

  837. moparisthebest has joined

  838. andrey.g has left

  839. Guus has left

  840. Nekit has joined

  841. MattJ

    Good

  842. Steve Kille has left

  843. lnj has joined

  844. Steve Kille has left

  845. jubalh has left

  846. jubalh has joined

  847. andrey.g has joined

  848. rishiraj22 has left

  849. rishiraj22 has left

  850. jubalh has left

  851. jubalh has joined

  852. jubalh has left

  853. jubalh has joined

  854. jubalh has left

  855. jubalh has joined

  856. jubalh has left

  857. jubalh has joined

  858. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  859. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  860. ta has joined

  861. Alex has left

  862. jubalh has left

  863. jubalh has joined

  864. j.r has joined

  865. j.r has joined

  866. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  867. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  868. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  869. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  870. jubalh has left

  871. jubalh has joined

  872. jubalh has left

  873. jubalh has joined

  874. jubalh has left

  875. jubalh has joined

  876. j.r has joined

  877. jubalh has left

  878. jubalh has joined

  879. j.r has joined

  880. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  881. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  882. Tobias has joined

  883. jubalh has left

  884. jubalh has joined

  885. Wiktor has left

  886. blabla has joined

  887. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  888. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  889. marmistrz has joined

  890. jubalh has left

  891. jubalh has joined

  892. marmistrz has joined

  893. igor75 has left

  894. muppeth has left

  895. muppeth has left

  896. muppeth has joined

  897. igor75 has joined

  898. igor75 has left

  899. muppeth has left

  900. SaltyBones has left

  901. jubalh has left

  902. jubalh has joined

  903. rtq3 has left

  904. jubalh has left

  905. jubalh has joined

  906. igor75 has joined

  907. j.r has joined

  908. jubalh has left

  909. jubalh has joined

  910. jubalh has left

  911. jubalh has joined

  912. lorddavidiii has left

  913. Wiktor has joined

  914. jubalh has left

  915. jubalh has joined

  916. jubalh has left

  917. jubalh has joined

  918. jubalh has left

  919. jubalh has joined

  920. jubalh has left

  921. jubalh has joined

  922. mimi89999 has left

  923. jubalh has left

  924. jubalh has joined

  925. jubalh has left

  926. jubalh has joined

  927. igor75 has left

  928. muppeth has joined

  929. jubalh has left

  930. jubalh has joined

  931. igor75 has joined

  932. jubalh has left

  933. jubalh has joined

  934. andy has left

  935. jubalh has left

  936. jubalh has joined

  937. jubalh has left

  938. jubalh has joined

  939. Alex has joined

  940. jubalh has left

  941. jubalh has joined

  942. jubalh has left

  943. jubalh has joined

  944. jubalh has left

  945. jubalh has joined

  946. ThibG has joined

  947. jubalh has left

  948. rtq3 has joined

  949. jubalh has joined

  950. goffi has left

  951. SaltyBones has left

  952. jubalh has left

  953. jubalh has joined

  954. jubalh has left

  955. jubalh has joined

  956. tux has joined

  957. marc has left

  958. jubalh has left

  959. jubalh has joined

  960. jubalh has left

  961. jubalh has joined

  962. Tobias has joined

  963. jubalh has left

  964. jubalh has joined

  965. jubalh has left

  966. jubalh has joined

  967. jubalh has left

  968. jubalh has joined

  969. j.r has joined

  970. jubalh has left

  971. jubalh has joined

  972. jubalh has left

  973. jubalh has joined

  974. jubalh has left

  975. jubalh has joined

  976. jubalh has left

  977. jubalh has joined

  978. jubalh has left

  979. jubalh has joined

  980. jubalh has left

  981. jubalh has joined

  982. Lance has joined

  983. moparisthebest has joined

  984. jubalh has left

  985. jubalh has joined

  986. Lance has joined

  987. moparisthebest has joined

  988. mikaela has left

  989. jubalh has left

  990. jubalh has joined

  991. jubalh has left

  992. jubalh has joined

  993. jubalh has left

  994. jubalh has joined

  995. jubalh has left

  996. jubalh has joined

  997. j.r has joined

  998. andrey.g has left

  999. jubalh has left

  1000. jubalh has joined

  1001. jubalh has left

  1002. jubalh has joined

  1003. andrey.g has joined

  1004. jubalh has left

  1005. jubalh has joined

  1006. jubalh has left

  1007. jubalh has joined

  1008. jubalh has left

  1009. jubalh has joined

  1010. jubalh has left

  1011. jubalh has joined

  1012. Nekit has left

  1013. Nekit has joined

  1014. jubalh has left

  1015. jubalh has joined

  1016. jubalh has left

  1017. jubalh has joined

  1018. ibikk has left

  1019. ibikk has joined

  1020. jubalh has left

  1021. daniel has left

  1022. j.r has joined

  1023. jubalh has left

  1024. Dave Cridland has left

  1025. Dave Cridland has joined

  1026. Alex has left

  1027. lnj has left

  1028. j.r has joined

  1029. jjrh has left

  1030. valo has left

  1031. Nekit has joined

  1032. rion has left

  1033. Chobbes has joined

  1034. muppeth has left

  1035. muppeth has left

  1036. igor75 has left

  1037. igor75 has joined

  1038. muppeth has joined

  1039. jjrh has left

  1040. mimi89999 has joined

  1041. j.r has joined

  1042. j.r has joined

  1043. Zash has left

  1044. MattJ has joined

  1045. Zash has left

  1046. blabla has left

  1047. j.r has joined

  1048. rtq3 has left

  1049. rtq3 has joined

  1050. rishiraj22 has left

  1051. rishiraj22 has joined

  1052. j.r has joined

  1053. lskdjf has left

  1054. vanitasvitae has left

  1055. j.r has left

  1056. vanitasvitae has left

  1057. rtq3 has left

  1058. vanitasvitae has joined

  1059. rtq3 has joined

  1060. nyco has joined

  1061. j.r has joined