XSF Discussion - 2018-06-13

  1. Neustradamus has left
  2. Neustradamus has joined
  3. anjan has left
  4. rtq3 has left
  5. SamWhited has left
  6. j.r has joined
  7. Syndace has left
  8. Syndace has joined
  9. j.r has joined
  10. alexis has left
  11. alexis has joined
  12. lskdjf has left
  13. j.r has joined
  14. Dave Cridland has left
  15. Dave Cridland has left
  16. anjan has left
  17. la|r|ma has left
  18. la|r|ma has joined
  19. Dave Cridland has left
  20. alexis has left
  21. alexis has joined
  22. alexis has left
  23. alexis has joined
  24. anjan has left
  25. j.r has joined
  26. jjrh has left
  27. j.r has left
  28. kasper.dement has joined
  29. kasper.dement has joined
  30. la|r|ma has joined
  31. j.r has joined
  32. jjrh has left
  33. lskdjf has joined
  34. SamWhited has left
  35. j.r has joined
  36. alacer has left
  37. alacer has joined
  38. j.r has joined
  39. tux has joined
  40. Neustradamus has left
  41. dos has left
  42. j.r has joined
  43. j.r has joined
  44. alacer has left
  45. alacer has joined
  46. Yagiza has joined
  47. rishiraj22 has left
  48. rishiraj22 has joined
  49. rishiraj22 has left
  50. rishiraj22 has joined
  51. SamWhited has left
  52. alacer has left
  53. j.r has joined
  54. alacer has joined
  55. j.r has joined
  56. rainslide has joined
  57. jere has joined
  58. jere has joined
  59. rainslide has left
  60. rainslide has joined
  61. Dave Cridland has left
  62. Dave Cridland has joined
  63. rishiraj22 has left
  64. rishiraj22 has joined
  65. Dave Cridland has left
  66. Dave Cridland has joined
  67. moparisthebest has joined
  68. rishiraj22 has left
  69. rishiraj22 has joined
  70. rainslide has left
  71. rainslide has joined
  72. rishiraj22 has left
  73. rishiraj22 has joined
  74. rishiraj22 has left
  75. rishiraj22 has joined
  76. rishiraj22 has left
  77. rishiraj22 has joined
  78. rishiraj22 has left
  79. rishiraj22 has joined
  80. rainslide has left
  81. rishiraj22 has left
  82. rishiraj22 has joined
  83. rishiraj22 has left
  84. rishiraj22 has joined
  85. rishiraj22 has left
  86. rishiraj22 has joined
  87. rainslide has joined
  88. Chobbes has joined
  89. Chobbes has joined
  90. rishiraj22 has left
  91. rishiraj22 has joined
  92. rainslide has left
  93. ta has left
  94. rishiraj22 has left
  95. rishiraj22 has joined
  96. jere has left
  97. rishiraj22 has left
  98. j.r has joined
  99. rishiraj22 has joined
  100. rishiraj22 has left
  101. rishiraj22 has joined
  102. lorddavidiii has joined
  103. rishiraj22 has left
  104. rishiraj22 has joined
  105. rishiraj22 has left
  106. rishiraj22 has joined
  107. j.r has joined
  108. Nekit has joined
  109. rishiraj22 has left
  110. rishiraj22 has joined
  111. rishiraj22 has left
  112. rishiraj22 has joined
  113. andy has joined
  114. rishiraj22 has left
  115. rishiraj22 has joined
  116. rishiraj22 has left
  117. rishiraj22 has joined
  118. Yagiza has left
  119. Yagiza has joined
  120. rishiraj22 has left
  121. rishiraj22 has joined
  122. andy has left
  123. rishiraj22 has left
  124. rishiraj22 has joined
  125. Neustradamus has left
  126. rishiraj22 has left
  127. rishiraj22 has joined
  128. lnj has joined
  129. moparisthebest has left
  130. moparisthebest has joined
  131. Neustradamus has joined
  132. ta has left
  133. lnj has left
  134. lnj has joined
  135. rishiraj22 has left
  136. rishiraj22 has joined
  137. ta has left
  138. ta has joined
  139. blabla has left
  140. blabla has joined
  141. Yagiza has left
  142. Yagiza has joined
  143. alexis has left
  144. alexis has joined
  145. jonasw has left
  146. jonasw has joined
  147. moparisthebest has left
  148. moparisthebest has joined
  149. marmistrz has joined
  150. marmistrz has joined
  151. ta has joined
  152. ta has joined
  153. lnj has left
  154. andy has joined
  155. Guus has left
  156. SamWhited has left
  157. Guus has left
  158. labdsf has left
  159. mrdoctorwho has left
  160. Ge0rG has left
  161. Ge0rG has left
  162. Guus has left
  163. Guus has left
  164. Guus has joined
  165. Ge0rG has left
  166. Kev has left
  167. lnj has joined
  168. rion has left
  169. SaltyBones has left
  170. Guus has left
  171. Guus has left
  172. Guus has left
  173. Guus has left
  174. ralphm has joined
  175. marc has left
  176. Guus has left
  177. Guus has left
  178. Guus has left
  179. alexis has left
  180. alexis has joined
  181. alexis has left
  182. alexis has joined
  183. Guus has left
  184. marc has joined
  185. Dave Cridland has left
  186. Dave Cridland has joined
  187. lnj has left
  188. SaltyBones has left
  189. SaltyBones has joined
  190. lnj has joined
  191. alexis has left
  192. efrit has joined
  193. alexis has joined
  194. rishiraj22 has left
  195. rishiraj22 has joined
  196. rishiraj22 has left
  197. rishiraj22 has joined
  198. rishiraj22 has left
  199. rishiraj22 has joined
  200. blabla has left
  201. rishiraj22 has left
  202. rishiraj22 has joined
  203. rishiraj22 has left
  204. rishiraj22 has joined
  205. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  206. Dave Cridland has left
  207. Dave Cridland has joined
  208. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  209. rishiraj22 has left
  210. rishiraj22 has joined
  211. lorddavidiii has left
  212. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  213. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  214. muppeth has joined
  215. blabla has left
  216. muppeth has joined
  217. rishiraj22 has left
  218. rishiraj22 has joined
  219. Valerian has joined
  220. goffi has joined
  221. Ge0rG has joined
  222. j.r has left
  223. j.r has joined
  224. rishiraj22 has left
  225. rishiraj22 has joined
  226. Chobbes has joined
  227. Chobbes has joined
  228. rishiraj22 has left
  229. rishiraj22 has joined
  230. ralphm has left
  231. rishiraj22 has left
  232. rishiraj22 has joined
  233. lorddavidiii has left
  234. rishiraj22 has left
  235. rishiraj22 has joined
  236. rishiraj22 has left
  237. rishiraj22 has joined
  238. rishiraj22 has left
  239. rishiraj22 has joined
  240. ThibG has joined
  241. ThibG has joined
  242. alexis has left
  243. alexis has joined
  244. rishiraj22 has left
  245. rishiraj22 has joined
  246. daniel has left
  247. rishiraj22 has left
  248. rishiraj22 has joined
  249. la|r|ma has joined
  250. jubalh has joined
  251. ralphm has joined
  252. rtq3 has joined
  253. SaltyBones has left
  254. rishiraj22 has left
  255. SaltyBones has left
  256. lumi has joined
  257. SaltyBones has joined
  258. rishiraj22 has joined
  259. marmistrz has left
  260. Dave Cridland has left
  261. rtq3 has left
  262. rtq3 has joined
  263. waqas has left
  264. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  265. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  266. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  267. labdsf has left
  268. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  269. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  270. la|r|ma has left
  271. la|r|ma has joined
  272. Tim has joined
  273. remko has joined
  274. lskdjf has joined
  275. lnj has left
  276. Dave Cridland has left
  277. Dave Cridland has joined
  278. Dave Cridland has left
  279. Dave Cridland has joined
  280. Dave Cridland has left
  281. Dave Cridland has joined
  282. vanitasvitae has left
  283. Dave Cridland has left
  284. Dave Cridland has joined
  285. Dave Cridland has left
  286. Dave Cridland has joined
  287. Valerian has left
  288. Valerian has joined
  289. lnj has joined
  290. Valerian has left
  291. Valerian has joined
  292. Valerian has left
  293. vanitasvitae has left
  294. blabla has joined
  295. Nekit has left
  296. Nekit has joined
  297. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  298. rishiraj22 has left
  299. rishiraj22 has joined
  300. rishiraj22 has left
  301. rishiraj22 has joined
  302. rishiraj22 has left
  303. daniel has left
  304. rishiraj22 has joined
  305. efrit has left
  306. rishiraj22 has left
  307. rishiraj22 has joined
  308. alacer has left
  309. alacer has joined
  310. marmistrz has joined
  311. rishiraj22 has left
  312. rishiraj22 has joined
  313. alexis has left
  314. alexis has joined
  315. alacer has left
  316. alacer has joined
  317. rishiraj22 has left
  318. rishiraj22 has joined
  319. rishiraj22 has left
  320. rishiraj22 has joined
  321. rishiraj22 has left
  322. rishiraj22 has joined
  323. Kev has left
  324. rtq3 has left
  325. marmistrz has left
  326. marc has left
  327. alacer has left
  328. alacer has joined
  329. rtq3 has joined
  330. alexis has left
  331. alexis has joined
  332. rainslide has joined
  333. alexis has left
  334. efrit has joined
  335. alexis has joined
  336. alexis has left
  337. jubalh has left
  338. marmistrz has left
  339. jubalh has left
  340. rishiraj22 has left
  341. marmistrz has left
  342. rtq3 has left
  343. lskdjf has left
  344. lskdjf has joined
  345. Dave Cridland has left
  346. Dave Cridland has joined
  347. Dave Cridland has left
  348. Dave Cridland has joined
  349. Dave Cridland has left
  350. Dave Cridland has joined
  351. rainslide has left
  352. jonasw is a stream closed wtih a stream error by the client SM-resumable?
  353. marmistrz has left
  354. rtq3 has joined
  355. Valerian has joined
  356. Valerian has left
  357. Valerian has joined
  358. pep. has left
  359. rishiraj22 has left
  360. rainslide has joined
  361. rishiraj22 has left
  362. rishiraj22 has left
  363. Kev has left
  364. rishiraj22 has left
  365. rishiraj22 has left
  366. Link Mauve I’d say no.
  367. jonasw that’d mean that sending <connection-timeout/> on streams which one believes to be dead is a bad idea.
  368. jonasw even though that might help with debugging
  369. Holger I'd say 'no' as well. Stream errors are unrecoverable. But formally speaking you could probably go into the definition of 'stream' vs. 'session' or how XEPs may override RFCs, while then again 0198 doesn't go into this.
  370. Holger jonasw: Yes I think that's a bad idea. Just close the TCP session.
  371. jonasw good
  372. Holger ... and log things locally for debugging.
  373. jonasw mmm, I might even be sending </stream:stream> on timeouts in some cases, I need to look into that
  374. j.r has joined
  375. jonasw (or have been sending, anyways, I reworked the whole timeout business and I think it’s much better now in any respect)
  376. Holger jonasw: Or if you think it would be good/important to support this, it should explicitly go into 0198, IMO.
  377. jonasw which would namespace-bump '198. thanks, but no thanks.
  378. jonasw (or maybe stream-feature it, but eh, I don’t want to handle that with a conditional thing)
  379. jonasw breaking layers too much
  380. lnj has left
  381. rishiraj22 has left
  382. rishiraj22 has left
  383. rishiraj22 has left
  384. rishiraj22 has left
  385. rishiraj22 has left
  386. rainslide has left
  387. Kev has left
  388. rishiraj22 has left
  389. rishiraj22 has left
  390. dos has joined
  391. ThibG has joined
  392. ThibG has joined
  393. rishiraj22 has left
  394. rishiraj22 has left
  395. rishiraj22 has joined
  396. rishiraj22 has left
  397. rishiraj22 has joined
  398. winfried has left
  399. ralphm has joined
  400. efrit has left
  401. rishiraj22 has left
  402. rishiraj22 has joined
  403. rishiraj22 has left
  404. rishiraj22 has joined
  405. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  406. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  407. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  408. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  409. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  410. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  411. jere has joined
  412. Neustradamus has left
  413. Neustradamus has joined
  414. Kev has joined
  415. Guus has left
  416. Guus has left
  417. j.r has joined
  418. j.r has joined
  419. Guus has left
  420. Guus has left
  421. Guus has joined
  422. mrdoctorwho has joined
  423. Alex has joined
  424. vanitasvitae has left
  425. rainslide has joined
  426. alexis has joined
  427. lumi has joined
  428. rishiraj22 has left
  429. rishiraj22 has joined
  430. rainslide has left
  431. j.r has joined
  432. mimi89999 has left
  433. j.r has joined
  434. rishiraj22 has left
  435. rishiraj22 has joined
  436. mrdoctorwho has joined
  437. mrdoctorwho has joined
  438. nyco has left
  439. nyco has joined
  440. rishiraj22 has left
  441. nyco has left
  442. daniel has left
  443. nyco has joined
  444. rishiraj22 has joined
  445. rishiraj22 has left
  446. jere has joined
  447. lorddavidiii has left
  448. rishiraj22 has left
  449. rishiraj22 has left
  450. rishiraj22 has left
  451. jere has joined
  452. rishiraj22 has left
  453. Ge0rG jonasw [13:49]: > that’d mean that sending <connection-timeout/> on streams which one believes to be dead is a bad idea. Bad idea indeed
  454. lnj has joined
  455. ThibG has left
  456. ThibG has joined
  457. Valerian has left
  458. rishiraj22 has left
  459. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  460. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  461. Valerian has joined
  462. andy has left
  463. jonasw has joined
  464. labdsf has left
  465. labdsf has left
  466. lskdjf has joined
  467. j.r has joined
  468. lskdjf has left
  469. rishiraj22 has left
  470. rishiraj22 has left
  471. jjrh has left
  472. rishiraj22 has left
  473. alacer has left
  474. rishiraj22 has left
  475. lskdjf has joined
  476. rishiraj22 has left
  477. lskdjf has left
  478. Dave Cridland has left
  479. Dave Cridland has joined
  480. rishiraj22 has left
  481. j.r has joined
  482. lskdjf has left
  483. marmistrz has left
  484. lskdjf has left
  485. marc has joined
  486. lskdjf has joined
  487. rishiraj22 has left
  488. jere has left
  489. jere has joined
  490. lskdjf has left
  491. jjrh has left
  492. Dave Cridland has left
  493. Dave Cridland has joined
  494. jjrh has left
  495. lskdjf has joined
  496. Valerian has left
  497. Valerian has joined
  498. lskdjf has joined
  499. rishiraj22 has left
  500. lskdjf has left
  501. j.r has left
  502. jjrh has left
  503. marmistrz has joined
  504. jjrh has left
  505. Valerian has left
  506. Valerian has joined
  507. jjrh has left
  508. j.r has joined
  509. lskdjf has joined
  510. jjrh has left
  511. muppeth has joined
  512. muppeth has joined
  513. lskdjf has joined
  514. winfried has left
  515. lskdjf has joined
  516. alacer has left
  517. alacer has joined
  518. lskdjf has joined
  519. lskdjf has left
  520. j.r has joined
  521. j.r has joined
  522. Zash Dave Cridland: Cert poke.
  523. Dave Cridland Zash, Really? Oh.
  524. lskdjf has joined
  525. dos has left
  526. Alex has left
  527. Guus has left
  528. Guus has left
  529. Guus has left
  530. Guus has left
  531. Guus has joined
  532. Tim has joined
  533. lskdjf has left
  534. lskdjf has joined
  535. lorddavidiii has left
  536. tux has joined
  537. alexis has left
  538. alexis has joined
  539. marmistrz has joined
  540. jere has joined
  541. SaltyBones has left
  542. ralphm has left
  543. jjrh has left
  544. alexis has left
  545. alexis has joined
  546. Dave Cridland has left
  547. Dave Cridland has left
  548. lskdjf has left
  549. rion has left
  550. lskdjf has left
  551. efrit has joined
  552. Zash has left
  553. lskdjf has left
  554. jjrh has left
  555. lskdjf has joined
  556. lskdjf has left
  557. lskdjf has left
  558. lskdjf has left
  559. lskdjf has left
  560. lskdjf has left
  561. lskdjf has left
  562. lskdjf has left
  563. lumi has left
  564. muppeth has left
  565. muppeth has joined
  566. blabla has left
  567. alexis has left
  568. ta has joined
  569. ralphm has joined
  570. Zash has left
  571. rishiraj22 has left
  572. Wiktor n//nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.n; ; :::///////b?b/N//n///n/nmmmm?/mM ,,.....................
  573. Wiktor .
  574. Wiktor .
  575. goffi has left
  576. MattJ and so it begins
  577. Wiktor Yep, kid at the keyboard again, sorry 🙏
  578. rishiraj22 has left
  579. lskdjf has left
  580. pep. looks like some kind of sed, he's trying to send us a message
  581. Zash has left
  582. lskdjf has left
  583. rishiraj22 has left
  584. Dave Cridland has left
  585. rishiraj22 has left
  586. lskdjf has joined
  587. Wiktor That may be the case, he can't speak yet, he's trying to communicate! Via sed!
  588. Syndace has left
  589. Syndace has joined
  590. lskdjf has left
  591. MattJ has left
  592. blabla has joined
  593. Zash has left
  594. Alex has joined
  595. waqas has joined
  596. rtq3 has left
  597. Zash has left
  598. rtq3 has joined
  599. Zash has joined
  600. zak has joined
  601. blabla has joined
  602. zak has left
  603. SamWhited has left
  604. Valerian has left
  605. rishiraj22 has left
  606. labdsf has left
  607. rishiraj22 has left
  608. jere has joined
  609. rishiraj22 has left
  610. rtq3 has left
  611. mimi89999 has joined
  612. marmistrz has joined
  613. Dave Cridland has left
  614. jubalh has joined
  615. labdsf has left
  616. jubalh has joined
  617. rainslide has joined
  618. rishiraj22 has left
  619. lskdjf has joined
  620. marmistrz has joined
  621. lskdjf has left
  622. jere has left
  623. jere has joined
  624. rishiraj22 has left
  625. rishiraj22 has left
  626. rishiraj22 has left
  627. alexis has joined
  628. labdsf has left
  629. alexis has left
  630. rainslide has left
  631. alexis has joined
  632. alexis has left
  633. rishiraj22 has left
  634. lskdjf has left
  635. rishiraj22 has left
  636. karp has joined
  637. muppeth has joined
  638. muppeth has joined
  639. ralphm has left
  640. Dave Cridland has left
  641. rtq3 has joined
  642. lskdjf has joined
  643. alexis has joined
  644. la|r|ma has joined
  645. Valerian has joined
  646. Guus I think I'm to stupid to understand XEP-0357. Can someone explain section 2.2 to me please?
  647. Zash -xep 357
  648. Bunneh Zash: Push Notifications (Standards Track, Experimental, 2017-08-24) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html
  649. karp has left
  650. karp has joined
  651. marmistrz has left
  652. daniel Guus: maybe the Readme in github.com/inputmice/p2 can help?
  653. Guus tx
  654. vanitasvitae has left
  655. Valerian has left
  656. Valerian has joined
  657. Neustradamus has joined
  658. Valerian has left
  659. Valerian has joined
  660. Valerian has left
  661. karp has left
  662. daniel Let me know if that was in fact helpful. Maybe there is something left that I can clarify
  663. j.r has joined
  664. Guus daniel, I'm half way through it, and had two ah-hah! moment already.
  665. Guus (not to be confused with a-ha moments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914 )
  666. Guus gotta put my kids in bed now though, afk.
  667. alexis has joined
  668. j.r has left
  669. j.r has joined
  670. rainslide has joined
  671. j.r has joined
  672. alacer has left
  673. alacer has joined
  674. rishiraj22 has left
  675. lskdjf has joined
  676. rishiraj22 has left
  677. labdsf has left
  678. rainslide has left
  679. rishiraj22 has left
  680. Dave Cridland has left
  681. rishiraj22 has left
  682. rtq3 has left
  683. rtq3 has joined
  684. jubalh has joined
  685. rtq3 has left
  686. rtq3 has joined
  687. alexis has left
  688. Valerian has joined
  689. alexis has joined
  690. lskdjf has joined
  691. j.r has joined
  692. j.r has joined
  693. lskdjf has left
  694. lskdjf has joined
  695. lskdjf has left
  696. Guus daniel, so if I understand things correctly, then somewhere there's at least one of your P2 instances running that services the standard Conversations clients that are out there? (I can run my own, but that's only of interest if I build my own Conversations client?). Regular Conversations clients will perform "Account Owner Service Discovery" on the local XMPP domain, and, if available, this will eventually cause Conversations to ask the local XMPP domain to enable notifications (in that request a reference to the JID of your P2 instance is included)?
  697. lskdjf has joined
  698. lskdjf has joined
  699. marmistrz has left
  700. lskdjf has left
  701. daniel Yes
  702. daniel And the jid of the P2 is hard-coded into Conversations. And if you compile that yourself you'd have to change that
  703. Guus Yeah, I'm not interested in doing that - I'm just checking if I understood the concept better now.
  704. lumi has joined
  705. Guus Thanks, that helped a lot
  706. lskdjf has left
  707. alexis has joined
  708. SamWhited has left
  709. labdsf has left
  710. Ge0rG has left
  711. Dave Cridland has left
  712. lskdjf has left
  713. karp has left
  714. karp has joined
  715. muppeth has joined
  716. jubalh has joined
  717. lskdjf has left
  718. lskdjf has left
  719. lskdjf has left
  720. jubalh has left
  721. lskdjf has left
  722. daniel has left
  723. Guus In a follow-up question to Push notifications: is there a list somewhere of good event candidates that warrant a push notification?
  724. daniel If there is a hibernating or unresponsive session push on every stanza that is being send down stream (not held back by csi)
  725. daniel Otherwise push on everything that would land in the archive / offline message
  726. daniel The thing you need to that is not described in the P2 Readme is that you should create a mapping between your push targets (app server jid - node ID tuple) and the current session
  727. lskdjf has left
  728. daniel So you'll know whether a specific push target is currently connected or not
  729. daniel Clients will send the enable in every session you know which session belongs to which push target
  730. Dave Cridland has left
  731. rishiraj22 has left
  732. Guus did you just tell me to not send push notifications to an inactive (CSI) client?
  733. Guus doesn't that defeat the purpose?
  734. Holger Guus: Just not for those stanzas held back by CSI.
  735. Guus ah, right.
  736. Holger Guus: The idea is that you'd usually want the same filtering rules for disconnected push clients as for inactive TCP-connected clients.
  737. labdsf has left
  738. Guus got itj
  739. Guus got it*
  740. ta has left
  741. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  742. labdsf has left
  743. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  744. j.r has joined
  745. Maranda has joined
  746. j.r has joined
  747. alexis has joined
  748. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  749. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  750. Alex has left
  751. Alex has joined
  752. Valerian has left
  753. labdsf has left
  754. lskdjf has left
  755. daniel has left
  756. la|r|ma has joined
  757. lskdjf has joined
  758. rishiraj22 has left
  759. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  760. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  761. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  762. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  763. muppeth has joined
  764. rishiraj22 has left
  765. marmistrz has left
  766. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  767. muppeth has joined
  768. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  769. rishiraj22 has left
  770. rishiraj22 has joined
  771. MattJ What if push was just the client registering a JID with it's server?
  772. MattJ And the server sent a simple <message> to that JID when it wanted to push something
  773. daniel How is that different from how it works now
  774. daniel Besides IQ vs messages
  775. alexis has joined
  776. jubalh has joined
  777. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  778. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  779. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  780. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  781. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  782. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  783. karp has left
  784. karp has joined
  785. jubalh has left
  786. jubalh has joined
  787. jubalh has left
  788. labdsf has left
  789. jubalh has joined
  790. ta has left
  791. jubalh has joined
  792. jubalh has joined
  793. jubalh has joined
  794. kasper.dement has joined
  795. ta has left
  796. jubalh has joined
  797. jubalh has left
  798. MattJ I guess it isn't, it's just a lot simpler
  799. MattJ Than pretending the app server is a pubsub service
  800. MattJ But now I'm sounding like Ge0rG
  801. labdsf has left
  802. jubalh has joined
  803. daniel Not worth changing at this point IMHO. One could consider rewriting the entire xep to make it easier to understand while keeping the Syntax
  804. anjan has left
  805. MattJ I would probably drop all the stuff about the communication between the app server and the client
  806. MattJ I think people can figure that part out for themselves, and in reality it will be different in every case
  807. Holger MattJ: I think there's value in using an IQ to get an ACK or error back. Yes the PubSub syntax is useless and confusing, and even more so all that nonsense-talk around PubSub in the XEP. But now that we have it I'd go for just simplifying the language as daniel said.
  808. MattJ Fair enough :/
  809. zak has joined
  810. Zash has left
  811. SaltyBones has left
  812. ta has left
  813. Holger You want the IQ errors to let the app server notify you of dead push devices. The XEP also specifies an affiliation change <message/> in section #8 but that seems meh to me. I'd ditch that.
  814. Bunneh Holger: Update XEP-0298 #8 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/8
  815. Holger Bunneh, nah ...
  816. zak has left
  817. Ge0rG Holger: you wanted to write a PR against push to remove the nonsense.
  818. Ge0rG Really, that xep is actively harmful. I don't know if just removing the misdirections while keeping the wire format will save it, but it's worth a try
  819. Holger Ge0rG: I wanted to do that or you wanted me to want to do it? :-)
  820. Holger > I would probably drop all the stuff about the communication between the app server and the client +1
  821. Kev has left
  822. lorddavidiii has left
  823. Ge0rG Holger: you said you'd take over authorship to fix it, but then Kev was first.
  824. lskdjf has left
  825. Holger Well those plans for 'fixing' the XEP were unrelated to the PubSub langauge. But whatever yes I'll try to find some time.
  826. rion has left
  827. MattJ Holger, messages can have error responses too...
  828. Zash Receipts!
  829. MattJ I see the attraction of iq, but I don't think it's a given requirement
  830. MattJ Otherwise we should just do all messaging over iq
  831. Zash MattJ: Hush, don't give them ideas
  832. Holger MattJ: In practice the ACK seems quite useful to me as well.
  833. lskdjf has left
  834. Yagiza has left
  835. lskdjf has joined
  836. foxtune has joined
  837. Zash has left
  838. Zash has left
  839. Wiktor has left
  840. Holger MattJ: There's many hops in getting a push notification to the client, and when that fails you can be sure the problem is with one of the hops beyond the XMPP server.
  841. lskdjf has left
  842. Holger But yes I could live with both.
  843. Zash has left
  844. Holger s/both/either/
  845. muppeth has joined
  846. lskdjf has left
  847. lskdjf has left
  848. Zash has left
  849. lskdjf has left
  850. remko has left
  851. dos has joined
  852. labdsf has left
  853. la|r|ma has left
  854. marmistrz has left
  855. Maranda has joined
  856. lskdjf has joined
  857. Wiktor has left
  858. Wiktor has joined
  859. alexis has left
  860. muppeth has left
  861. muppeth has joined
  862. alexis has joined
  863. Ge0rG has joined
  864. Ge0rG With messages you could just send back error responses. Should be enough to find out which client is broken, right?
  865. Holger We could replace all IQs with messages :-)
  866. Zash NACK or ACK by default?
  867. andy has joined
  868. marmistrz has left
  869. Zash has left
  870. Holger Yes, and follow-up with a ping IQ to make sure didn't just loose the connection to the app server!
  871. rishiraj22 has left
  872. rishiraj22 has joined
  873. Holger *you didn't
  874. j.r has joined
  875. nyco has left
  876. lskdjf has joined
  877. lskdjf has joined
  878. la|r|ma has joined
  879. Neustradamus has left
  880. labdsf has left
  881. tux has left
  882. Ge0rG Great. Then next step will be to replace presence with messages as well.
  883. rishiraj22 has left
  884. rishiraj22 has joined
  885. alexis has joined
  886. Zash https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-shafranovich-privacy-mailbox hmm
  887. vanitasvitae has left
  888. daniel has left
  889. dos has left
  890. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  891. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  892. MattJ Holger, and what are you saying? The iq result should reflect successful delivery to the client or to the app server?
  893. nyco has joined
  894. Holger MattJ: Just the app server, there's usually no (easy) way for the app server to acknowledge delivery to the client of course.
  895. MattJ Right
  896. MattJ So to the app server, that can be solved with 198 already, though I don't think message loss on s2s is a common problem
  897. alexis has joined
  898. dos has joined
  899. MattJ Using message /would/ allow an app server to generate errors from other layers
  900. MattJ if those other layers support it
  901. Zash Does it make sense to return >1 error responses?
  902. Zash Or what would the difference be?
  903. MattJ Your message doubly failed to send
  904. Guus has left
  905. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  906. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  907. lskdjf has left
  908. rishiraj22 has left
  909. rishiraj22 has joined
  910. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  911. Guus has left
  912. Zash As in, difference wrt iq
  913. lskdjf has left
  914. jjrh has left
  915. Holger There's other error cases than s2s connection loss, and debugging them can be a PITA as multiple parties are involved with the delivery. Therefore I prefer an explicit ACK in the logs over an implicit success assumption based on missing error messages while debugging issues in practice.
  916. lskdjf has joined
  917. Holger But yes, in a hypothetical world with ubiquitous s2s-0198 and robust app servers the implicit success assumption would work just as well.
  918. muppeth has joined
  919. anjan has left
  920. rtq3 has left
  921. labdsf has left
  922. anjan has left
  923. andy has left
  924. Alex has left
  925. jjrh has left
  926. vanitasvitae has left
  927. rtq3 has joined
  928. j.r has joined
  929. jubalh has left
  930. marmistrz has joined
  931. blabla has joined
  932. jjrh has left
  933. rtq3 has left
  934. marmistrz has joined
  935. jjrh has left
  936. Chobbes has joined
  937. rtq3 has joined
  938. j.r has joined
  939. vanitasvitae has left
  940. MattJ has joined
  941. jjrh has left
  942. marc has left
  943. muppeth has joined
  944. muppeth has joined
  945. Kev has joined
  946. Nekit has joined
  947. marmistrz has joined
  948. vanitasvitae has left
  949. j.r has joined
  950. vanitasvitae has left
  951. j.r has joined
  952. vanitasvitae has left
  953. marc has joined
  954. Chobbes has joined
  955. vanitasvitae has left
  956. vanitasvitae has left
  957. Maranda has joined
  958. vanitasvitae has left
  959. vanitasvitae has left
  960. vanitasvitae has left
  961. vanitasvitae has left
  962. vanitasvitae has left
  963. vanitasvitae has left
  964. vanitasvitae has left
  965. vanitasvitae has left
  966. marc has left
  967. dos has left
  968. vanitasvitae has left
  969. Guus has left
  970. dos has joined
  971. vanitasvitae has left
  972. Guus has left
  973. Guus has left
  974. vanitasvitae has left
  975. muppeth has joined
  976. dos has left
  977. dos has joined
  978. vanitasvitae has left
  979. muppeth has joined
  980. rishiraj22 has left
  981. vanitasvitae has left
  982. Guus has left
  983. rishiraj22 has joined
  984. vanitasvitae has left
  985. vanitasvitae has left
  986. vanitasvitae has left
  987. vanitasvitae has left
  988. rtq3 has left
  989. vanitasvitae has left
  990. rtq3 has joined
  991. UsL has left
  992. alexis has left
  993. rishiraj22 has left
  994. rishiraj22 has joined
  995. vanitasvitae has left
  996. alexis has joined
  997. SamWhited has left
  998. Chobbes has joined
  999. alexis has joined