XSF Discussion - 2018-06-28

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  97. flow

    Steve Kille, My concern is the user-id encoded in the localpart and not into the resourcepart: basically user#channel@mix.service/resource vs channel@mix.service/user/resource

  98. flow

    How would a query to your own MAM archive for a particular MIX channel look like with the first style?

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  125. Steve Kille

    Note that this format is NOT used for messages thru the channel. These user channel@domain/user

  126. Steve Kille

    This choice was made to make things right for MAM

  127. Steve Kille

    user#channel@mix.service/resource primary use is for presence. Anyone using MAM for MIX presence is going to need to have quite specialized knowledge.

  128. Steve Kille

    user#channel@mix.service/resource is also used for private messages being sent through the channel. You will have to use this with MIX-ANON. You may also choose to use this when direct messages are blocked (knowing a user's JID does not mean you have permission to send them messages)

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  130. Kev

    How does that help if direct messages are blocked?

  131. Kev

    Oh, you mean 1:1s to the real JID.

  132. Steve Kille

    If direct messages are blocked, you need to send PMs through the channel.

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  134. Kev

    DM/PM are synonymous.

  135. Steve Kille

    I thought that DM meant a message going directly to the user and not through the channel

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  137. Kev

    DM isn't a term used in XMPP, but elsewhere it is largely used to mean the same as PM in XMPP.

  138. Steve Kille

    OK - sorry to confuse things

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  141. Steve Kille

    MAM for PMs in MIX is a bit awkward. My immediate thought is extended MAM, so that you can query to find all PMs thru a channel, and for sender JID (so you can find PMs for a user across all channels). This is not optimal.

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  143. Kev

    Why do you want all PMs through a channel?

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  145. Steve Kille

    Not sure - on reflection not particularly useful

  146. Steve Kille

    Another option is to have MIX-PAM work on the message as it arrives, and put the PM into the user's archive in a way that is subsequently easy to search for.

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  148. Steve Kille

    This would shift some message process work from MIX client to server.

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  151. Kev

    Does using this JID format not already do exactly that?

  152. Kev

    Without any extra work?

  153. Steve Kille

    how would I find PMs from user#channel@mix.service/resource in a MAM archive?

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  155. Steve Kille

    I can use participant node to derive this JID from user's JID

  156. Steve Kille

    So, I can ask about PMs from a specific user thru a specific channel

  157. Kev

    You don't need it from /resource, you just need user#channel@mix.service

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  159. Steve Kille

    how do you work out #user?

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  161. Kev

    I don't understand the question.

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  168. flow

    Luckily you two could probably just go next door to the others office to clarify things. So do we have to extend MAM to query a participants archive for all messages of a particular MIX channel?

  169. flow

    With the user#channel@... approach

  170. jonasw

    flow, no, to get messages sent in the channel, you ask for channel@

  171. flow

    So my server gets incoming MIX messages with from set to 'channel@...' ?

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  173. flow

    jonasw, note that I'm not asking about the MAM archive of the MIX channel

  174. jonasw

    flow, I know, and yes

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  176. Kev

    If you're asking for all PMs from a channel, you can't do that without extending MAM. If you're asking about all channel messages, you can do that, and if you're asking for all PMs with a particular user, you can do that.

  177. flow

    got it thanks

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  179. flow

    but maybe one more to lazy to lookup question: querying all channel messages would also include PMs or not?

  180. Kev

    It would very much not.

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  232. Ge0rG

    The nice thing is that you'll even get PMs if you just asked for the backlog, and there is no way to discriminate them from regular direct messages.

  233. Kev

    No you won't.

  234. Ge0rG

    Oh, wait. This is about MIX.

  235. Kev

    Isn't everything?

  236. Ge0rG

    Is anything?

  237. Zash

    I thought this was xsf@, not mix@

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  242. Ge0rG

    it's even xsf@muc.

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  401. nyco


  402. Ge0rG

    test failed

  403. nyco


  404. Zash


  405. Guus

    who is this and why are you talking through my microwave?

  406. nyco


  407. MattJ waves

  408. Guus

    phonecall, afk

  409. nyco

    I will start with this:

  410. jere has left

  411. nyco

    I am confused, I miss last meeting, and did excuse

  412. nyco

    I am sorry

  413. Ge0rG

    Is it Bored Meeting day?

  414. MattJ

    It is

  415. MattJ

    nyco, oh, did I forget to send minutes? :/

  416. MattJ

    I definitely started typing them, but I don't recall finishing/sending, so if you don't see them I probably have something around here

  417. nyco

    possibly 😉

  418. MattJ

    The previous week we didn't meet

  419. nyco


  420. MattJ

    ralphm, ?

  421. Guus

    I'm back, yet kind of distracted as a result of the phone call 🙂

  422. Guus


  423. Guus

    I count three of us

  424. Guus

    let's get started?

  425. MattJ

    Yeah, we can go ahead

  426. Guus bangs the imaginary gavel

  427. Guus

    I've seen nyco, mattj and me. Martin, ralphm not here I think?

  428. MattJ

    Looks like it

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  430. Guus

    Would someone be so kind to volunteer for the minutes for this meeting?

  431. MattJ

    I can

  432. Guus


  433. Guus

    Agenda - what do you want to discuss?

  434. Guus

    Trello has been unmodified for a while now: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  435. Guus

    MattJ, any progress on that spreadsheet you were working on?

  436. MattJ

    I think it's a mixture of things stalled on Peter and things stalled on me

  437. MattJ

    It's in progress, but nothing much to show yet

  438. MattJ

    I can give a summary of the ratings-based questions

  439. MattJ

    or we can just wait until I've compiled it all and dedicate a meeting to discussing it

  440. Guus

    I'd be ok to simply wait for you to finish, to be honest

  441. Guus

    do it all in one go.

  442. MattJ


  443. Guus

    let's table that (in the sense of postponing it for now, not to bring it up for discussion, just in case Dave is watching)

  444. Guus

    Since we have Nyco:

  445. MattJ


  446. Guus

    Where do we stand with the online Swag store?

  447. Guus

    I don't recall where we left off.

  448. Guus

    Were you going to compare alternatives, and/or set up a demo store?

  449. Guus


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  451. nyco

    correct, and I failed to find time to do it

  452. nyco


  453. Guus

    okay, no worries

  454. Guus

    will you have some time in the forseable future?

  455. nyco

    I felt there was not a great appetite for this, but I may be wrong, anyway I will still do it

  456. nyco

    yes, I'll dedicate time

  457. Guus

    as I recall, no-one was opposed. At the very least, i'm interested to see if it'd take off.

  458. Guus

    ok, thanks

  459. MattJ


  460. nyco


  461. Guus

    As to the fundraising / financials: I'll try to gently poke Peter again, or ask if we can help out if he has timing conflicts.

  462. Guus

    that, in record time, was us going through the trello board.

  463. Guus

    is there any other business that anyone wants to bring up?

  464. MattJ

    I'm not sure I'm clear on the status of the GDPR stuff

  465. MattJ

    The next action item in my mind was to formalize the team, but I think we failed to do that last week

  466. MattJ

    It doesn't make much difference though, I think the initial work would be done by me and I haven't had time anyway

  467. Guus

    I think you're right - I forgot about that one.

  468. Guus

    did you hear back from each of the suggested team members?

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  470. Guus

    I think we're waiting for feedback from Alex, last I heard?

  471. MattJ

    That's true, I need to poke him again

  472. Guus

    Okay. To formalize, I think we need a mission statement, and a member list for the work team.

  473. MattJ

    I'll draft something up for the next meeting, and hopefully receive something back from Alex

  474. Guus

    It would be nice for individuals to be aware that they're a member before we vote them in 😉

  475. Guus

    sounds good. I can help with the mission statement if you want?

  476. Guus

    I think we even discussed one, earlier.

  477. MattJ


  478. Guus

    Ok, if you could ping me anytime, but next Monday - I'll have some time to work on this.

  479. Guus

    Does this conclude this topic, for now?

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  481. MattJ

    I think so, yes, thanks

  482. Guus

    Any other business?

  483. MattJ

    None here

  484. nyco

    I'm good

  485. Guus

    Date/time of next

  486. Guus


  487. nyco


  488. Guus


  489. Guus bangs gavel

  490. Guus

    thank you!

  491. MattJ

    Thanks :)

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