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labdsf
See https://delta.chat for IM over email
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j.r
Hey
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j.r
Is there a way to delete messages in mam?
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daniel
j.r: no standardized way
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j.r
that's bad
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j.r
What means not standardized?
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daniel
That there is no standard way of doing it. Some servers or providers might have their own protocol
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j.r
Oh ok
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pep.
labdsf: "Independent: You are not dependent on any external service or server - Delta Chat only uses your mail server." Can I laugh
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labdsf
pep.: dunno what you laugh at, it basically means they don't run any infrastructure
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pep.
Well yeah they use email. I guess they only provide the client, the server being gmail for most people, I don't see how that's not being dependent
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jonasw
(also, it is really sucky when you don’t have DeltaChat)
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jonasw
(a friend of mine tested it briefly)
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MattJ
jonasw: in what way? (I could guess, but just curious)
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Link Mauve
“23:15:59 SamWhited> Client UIs are primarily designed for short form messages that are meant to be read right away.”, there are quite a few clients which have a better UI for that, try Movim or Libervia.
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SamWhited
"primarily" was the keyword there.
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Link Mauve
It depends on the client.
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Link Mauve
IM clients do IM primarily, other clients do other things primarily.
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SamWhited
And XMPP clients are primarily IM clients.
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Link Mauve
Is there any use to this information?
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SamWhited
I'm not sure what you mean; I was just asked a question so I answered it.
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Ge0rG
I wouldn't be surpried if non-IM XMPP clients vastly outnumbered IM XMPP clients, but we just can't see them.
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ralphm
Totally
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SamWhited
Probably not in such a way that moving the newsletter to them would be helpful though; I doubt a million and one IoT devices or whatever want to read the newsletter.
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daniel
Once they become self aware they might
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Ge0rG
BBL, taking my laser printer into installing conversations.
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flow
Ge0rG, whut?
- flow wonders if a "in final recipients MAM archive delivery receipt" would be desireable. Any thoughts?
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Ge0rG
flow: 0184 kind of breaks with multi device cases, but still I'd consider it a bad idea to ack on MAM storage. Instead, we should fix xmpp to reflect an error if the message didn't reach the recipient's MAM
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Ge0rG
You could add another level of ack of course, which is less than "delivered to user's device", but I don't see any value in it for IM
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flow
Ge0rG, why do you think that it is a bad idea?
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Ge0rG
flow: abusing 0184? because "stored in MAM" is less of a delivery guarantee than "received by user's device"
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Ge0rG
flow: think of "the user lost their device last week, and won't ever login again, but MAM is still running"
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waqas
I agree with Ge0rG that using 0184 is a bad hack, as it's intended for end-to-end receipts. 0198 gives you single hop receipts already.
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Zash
Does 184 say something about how to make sense of it in a multi-device environment?
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waqas
No, it's more like "some device received it"
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Ge0rG
I think that in combo with MAM, it's a good approximation of "at least one device received it, and the others are going to eventually sync up"
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Andrew Nenakhov
Storing delivery receipts in mam for each message would no no good.
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Andrew Nenakhov
Hacks to store "empty" messages to act as read receipts are no good either.
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Ge0rG
Andrew Nenakhov: what's the problem with storing receipts in MAM?