Who's here and do you have something for the Agenda?
Guus
me. no.
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MattJ
Me, I can briefly state the status of the survey results and GDPR
nyco
swag
ralphm
Ok. Did we get minutes from last meeting?
MattJ
No :/
404.city
Please add this pull requst https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/454
MattJ
I'd really appreciate if someone else could do that this week, I'm 2 weeks behind and am going to have less time over the next 7 days
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ralphm
Who?
Guus
nyco, can you please? I'm neck-deep in work
ralphm
Hoping someone will volunteer still, moving on.
ralphm
1. Survey results
nyco
me too
nyco
ok
nyco
test
nyco
me too, but ok
nyco
teestststststs
ralphm
we got you nyco
nyco
wow
ralphm
Go MattJ
MattJ
Survey results: I have collated the quantitive questions, and the priorities questions, which makes for the bulk of the results
MattJ
I don't have them in a nice format right now, but I can send them out right after the meeting once I figure something out
Seveis excited.
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nyco
yes, please... what's the top one?
MattJ
I grouped them by category, the category with the most responses was "Developer/community"
nyco
thx
MattJ
Containing suggestions such as organising workshops/etc.
nyco
ok
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nyco
GDPR?
ralphm
2. GDPR
404.city
I'm here to ask about Githab?
MattJ
Nothing to report on the GDPR front currently
ralphm
404.city: we're in the middle of a meeting, can you please wait until after. It is not a Board topic.
MattJ
I'll try to put some time in over the next week or two
ralphm
ok, no worries
MattJ
I know I didn't do the minutes, but I think a dangling action item was actually formalizing the team
ralphm
Indeed
MattJ
I didn't ping Alex again, that was another one
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ralphm
Yep.
Ge0rG
I might be able to assist with GDPR in the second half of July or later
ralphm
Thanks, Ge0rG.
ralphm
3. AOB
MattJ
Thanks Ge0rG, same may apply to me
nyco
swag?
ralphm
As we are nearing summer holidays, one thing that popped up is we need to start preparing council and board elections after. Just to keep in the back of our heads.
404.city
MattJ, ralphm Thanks
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nyco
or maybe "online shop" or "goodies"?
ralphm
nyco: I don't recall what we discussed on this last time, to be honest.
nyco
I proposed it as an agenda item
nyco
15:33
ralphm
Oh, I missed it
ralphm
:-(
nyco
no worries
Ge0rG
somebody should volunteer to evaluate some shop platforms and obtain Board permission to start a shop?
Ge0rG
Then also determine what to do with the money and how to transfer it into XSF accounts?
nyco
we are exploring alternatives now
Guus
Ge0rG: nyco already did / is.
nyco
here is a subset of the alternatives to cafepress that I have found:
https://www.zazzle.com/
https://society6.com/
https://www.vistaprint.com/
ralphm
And we probably also want to have an ok on designs going up there
nyco
some more are dedicated to T-shirts (and a few more clothes)
some others are made for authors, musicians, and filmmakers.
nyco
to me, this seems like the most readable:
https://www.zazzle.com/sell/designers
they say:
Base Price + Your Royalty Percentage = Retail Price
so the pricing+royalties seem clear to me that cafepress
nyco
what do you think? does this raise questions and doubts?
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ralphm
I'd prefer we can control what items get logos on them. I seem to remember that with cafepress they'd be able to throw it on anything?
Guus
nyco: who owns copyright of the designs?
ralphm
I'd do this similarly to XEPs, t.b.h.
nyco
ralphm I don't remember that
guus us?
MattJ
Update XEP-0001 to include coffee mugs?
Guus
nyco, yes I remember that we discussed that regarding cafepress. There at least was uncertainty. (I wouldn't mind much, by the way)
ralphm
MattJ: well, at least assign rights to the XSF, like in our IPR policy for XEPs (https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/ipr-policy).
404.city
I like the scheme of donations for TOR https://donate.torproject.org/pdr You donate, gifts are given to you
nyco
all right there seems to be too many interrogations, plus the payment, the bank, etc.
I propose we forget it
Guus
ralphm: I'd like to make sure that the shop we end up choosing requires us to do something similar, and assign rights over to them.
ralphm
404.city: this is about selling items. We also have a sponsorship track, and accept donations.
ralphm
Guus: does or doesn't?
ralphm
Guus: I don't think they ask for copyright assignment, but rather certain licenses to use (for printing)
Guus
ralphm: I do not want the shop to own the rights to our designs. I don't have a strong opinion if the XSF or the original designer should have those rights.
Guus
ralphm, that would be fine by me.
ralphm
Well, having the XSF have rights makes things less complicated later on.
Guus
ralphm: probably true.
Guus
but we can probably sort that out after we start a quick proof of concept?
MattJ
Yeah, I don't see any red flags with Zazzle
ralphm
sure
MattJ
I'm wondering it it's more expensive (takes a larger cut than Cafepress)
nyco
that was just the pricing schema
nyco
it's 16:00
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ralphm
RIght. Let's have a detailed look and come back on this next time.
404.city: now you can bring up your PR. Maybe Guus or jonasw can just merge it.
Ge0rG
Albeit I fear that adding more and more servers will lead that list to become very long.
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Ge0rG
I'd love to have a central, well-maintained list of public servers with a high lever feature overview. But keeping that is real work™
Ge0rG
And we have already https://conversations.im/compliance/
MattJ
Ge0rG, it's been done (and failed) many times
Guus
I'm unfamiliar with 404.city, and the github user that made the request is unknown to me. That, plus a suspicion that I at one time saw a lot of abuse from that domain makes me wonder if we should add that to our list.
Ge0rG
MattJ: yes, but it was great to just pull the XML from xmpp.net into my client's auto-completion dropdown values table
404.city
Ge0rG, 404.city is one of the largest servers. + 10 000 user for one year.
jonasw
MattJ, can you give a quick OK for https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/674/files ?
daniel
404.city, concurrent?
Ge0rG
how many of them are spam bots? 😁
jonasw
MattJ, nevermind
jonasw
Kevin is co-author and ACKed this on-list already
daniel
the website says 705 concurrent
404.city
+700 online users
Ge0rG
yax.im has 1066 clients connected right now.
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Ge0rG
404.city: we can't simply add all servers with 500+ online users to that list.
Ge0rG
OTOH, we don't have very good criteria for which ones to add.
Zash
Something something neutrality
404.city
I am engaged in the promotion of XMPP by providing high-end services.
404.city
Some servers in this list do not even allow you to register, and the quality of the servers themselves is poor.
Ge0rG
Yes, the current list sucks.
Guus
criteria for that list on that page are focussed around how easy it is for a new user to sign up
Guus: then we should remove all servers without IBR from that list
Guus
Ge0rG: all servers on the list had a web-based sign-up form at the time they were added to the list.
404.city
servers number of people more than 500 on the fingers to count.
Ge0rG
Guus: yax.im never did
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404.city
https://jabber.at/account/register/
Guus
Ge0rG: my original list, that is 🙂
Guus
I'm fine with having IBR too, by the way
Ge0rG
Guus: I wasn't aware that a web form is a prerequisite ;)
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Guus
as long as it's easy for a novice user to register somehow
Guus
I never said it's a prerequisite. 🙂
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Ge0rG
Guus: it sounded like it.
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Ge0rG
Guus: anyway, we need some objective criteria for that list.
Ge0rG
I agree with 404.city in that regard.
Guus
I said the prerequisite was that the link should offer clear instructions on how to sign up. Which is totally objective as I'll be the judge of what everyone is required to find clear instructions.
Guus
😛
Guus
Ge0rG: I'm a big fan of avoiding loooong discussions on what objective criteria should be.
Guus
if someone that I know wants to vouch for that server, I'm happy enough.
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404.city
I suggest simply adding 404.city. If you want then you can delete. The server does not exist for long, but the increment is significant. I'm trying to promote XMPP, you could help me in this
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Guus
404.city: I am grateful for you promoting XMPP - but my issue remain: I don't know who you are, I have no experience with your server, and I know no-one that does.
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404.city
Guus, Can I help somehow in this matter?
Ge0rG
404.city: you could also ping daniel to add your server to https://status.conversations.im/
daniel
status.conversations.im/add
Guus
404.city: it wouldn't hurt for you to be fully anonymous - but again, I'm primarily looking for other people to tell me that they've used your server, and are happy with it.
edhelas
daniel that's a nice tool :)
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Guus
404.city: in the mean time, I'm getting private messages to the contrary, by the way. It's suggested that you've been experiencing load-related issues. Is that true? If so, it does not seem smart to invite more people to your server.
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edhelas
movim.eu added to the list :)
404.city
Guus, No, I have no problems.
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404.city
Guus, The current state of the server can withstand 10,000 people online
Guus
Good.
404.city
The only problem is that nobody knows about the 404.city. He does not exist for 15 years, as Jabber.ru (7000 user oline) and XMPP.org (17000 user online). Other server the list Jwchat ~900user online. Do not forget that statistics can be shown in different ways. If I show all people per day, it will be more than 404.city= ~1500 people.If I show all the devices connected, then it will be even more. 700 people is a user without cheating.
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edhelas
404.city you have a typo on your homepage
edhelas
" Convesations Legacy", for all the buttons
daniel
404.city: there are plenty of smaller / new servers that found their audience
daniel
Without being listed on xmpp.org
daniel
Just be patient
daniel
Also slow and steady growth is better for everyone
Ge0rG
you can promote your server by other means, to get more people on board :)
Ge0rG
we are trying to spread the load anyway. It's much worse to have 10 servers with 100k users each than 1000 servers with 1000 users each.
Ge0rG
because if one server dies, the impact is much bigger
edhelas
404.city ensure that the users that you have are also valid :) it's easy to claim thousands of active users and have plenty of bots and spammers in them
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404.city
404 uses captcha for register
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edhelas
I'm not sure if it's enough :)
404.city
Ge0rG, Why do not you promote your server yax.im in a different way?
Ge0rG
404.city: yax.im is there to make onboarding for users of yaxim easier.
Ge0rG
404.city: it's preselected in yaxim. I don't see an urgent need to become the largest XMPP server ever.
404.city
edhelas, In addition to captcha, there is a limit on sending subscriptions.
Guus
the point of that list is not to promote a server. The point of that list is to make it easier for new users to get started with XMPP.
404.city
Guus, The server 404.city is made to simplify this task as much as possible
Ge0rG
captchas make that harder ;)
404.city
Ge0rG, Spam is bad.
Ge0rG
I know that first-hand.
404.city
Ge0rG, To me, too, used to come spam from your server
Ge0rG
404.city: I'm sure you immediately reported it ;)
404.city
Ge0rG, No, I did not report it otherwise than in the conference of operators
Ge0rG
I'm monitoring the operators@ MUC, most of the time.
Ge0rG
But it's better to report directly. I'm taking those things seriously