-
jonasw
so Daniel and Sam are reporting issues accessing the XSF MUCs. can somebody look into that, MattJ maybe?
-
MattJ
I can
-
MattJ
Do they have any more details?
-
Ge0rG
I'd just blame lack of self-awareness in typical MUC clients.
-
jonasw
MattJ, not more than whats on standards@
-
jonasw
I *guess* itโll be hard to ask them here ;-)
-
Ge0rG
Sam has been joining and leaving the council@ MUC yesterday, at least.
-
edhelas
I found a little typo on the main website "propriatary binary XMPP protocol."
-
edhelas
on https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html
-
jonasw
it should be "proprietary" right?
-
jonasw
fix pushed
-
MattJ
Yeah, problem confirmed... 5 stuck "pending" s2s connections (out of 200 successful ones), both Daniel's and Sam's servers are affected
-
MattJ
Oh
-
MattJ
4 of the 5 point to xmpp-hosting.conversations.im.
-
flow
Hmm, conversations.im changed the host system
-
jonasw
there was some c.im downtime recently
-
flow
and IIRC sam also said that he migrated to a new system or something
-
flow
could that be a pattern?
-
jonasw
I havenโt had issues with the migration from my side though
-
jonasw
(running prosody 0.9)
-
MattJ
flow, Sam is on xmpp-hosting.conversations.im now too
-
Holger
If there's anything I could check let me know.
-
flow
MattJ, what is the other stuck s2s connection that's not c.im?
-
MattJ
I don't recognise it (and will assume it's private for now)
-
MattJ
I'm going to upgrade the server, it's several releases behind
-
jonasw
to 0.10 or 0.9.x?
-
MattJ
0.10.2 of course :)
-
edhelas
jonasw yup :) thanks
-
edhelas
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17461213 also
-
MattJ
Ok, I'm going to upgrade the server now, expect a little bit of downtime, hopefully brief
-
jonasw
good luck!
-
Seve/SouL
Nooo
-
jonasw
will you load mod_muc from trunk? :)
-
MattJ
jonasw, not yet :/
-
jonasw
ok :)
-
edhelas
soon
-
MattJ
.
-
Seve/SouL
Wooo
-
MattJ
That was too easy
-
Seve/SouL
Haha :D
-
Seve
Now just wait for more people to join the party.
-
Ge0rG
Now just wait for people to realize that this MUC is too silent for too long.
-
Seve
:)
-
edhelas
o/
-
edhelas
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17462101
-
Seve
Heh :)
-
Ge0rG
That page about the myths of XMPP is only *slightly* biased.
-
edhelas
you're also invited to read and help with the rest of the thread, I'm trying to answer some questions in there
-
Seve
Thank you by the way, edhelas
-
Seve
Very appreciated to have people explaining thins!
-
Seve
things*
-
nyco
so, hey, hi! ๐
-
MattJ
Oh hi
-
MattJ
Forgot it was that time
-
Seve
o/
-
nyco
go?
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Board Meeting| Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
ralphm
0. Welcome and Agenda
-
ralphm
Who's here and do you have something for the Agenda?
-
Guus
me. no.
-
MattJ
Me, I can briefly state the status of the survey results and GDPR
-
nyco
swag
-
ralphm
Ok. Did we get minutes from last meeting?
-
MattJ
No :/
-
404.city
Please add this pull requst https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/454
-
MattJ
I'd really appreciate if someone else could do that this week, I'm 2 weeks behind and am going to have less time over the next 7 days
-
ralphm
Who?
-
Guus
nyco, can you please? I'm neck-deep in work
-
ralphm
Hoping someone will volunteer still, moving on.
-
ralphm
1. Survey results
-
nyco
me too
-
nyco
ok
-
nyco
test
-
nyco
me too, but ok
-
nyco
teestststststs
-
ralphm
we got you nyco
-
nyco
wow
-
ralphm
Go MattJ
-
MattJ
Survey results: I have collated the quantitive questions, and the priorities questions, which makes for the bulk of the results
-
MattJ
I don't have them in a nice format right now, but I can send them out right after the meeting once I figure something out
- Seve is excited.
-
nyco
yes, please... what's the top one?
-
MattJ
I grouped them by category, the category with the most responses was "Developer/community"
-
nyco
thx
-
MattJ
Containing suggestions such as organising workshops/etc.
-
nyco
ok
-
nyco
GDPR?
-
ralphm
2. GDPR
-
404.city
I'm here to ask about Githab?
-
MattJ
Nothing to report on the GDPR front currently
-
ralphm
404.city: we're in the middle of a meeting, can you please wait until after. It is not a Board topic.
-
MattJ
I'll try to put some time in over the next week or two
-
ralphm
ok, no worries
-
MattJ
I know I didn't do the minutes, but I think a dangling action item was actually formalizing the team
-
ralphm
Indeed
-
MattJ
I didn't ping Alex again, that was another one
-
ralphm
Yep.
-
Ge0rG
I might be able to assist with GDPR in the second half of July or later
-
ralphm
Thanks, Ge0rG.
-
ralphm
3. AOB
-
MattJ
Thanks Ge0rG, same may apply to me
-
nyco
swag?
-
ralphm
As we are nearing summer holidays, one thing that popped up is we need to start preparing council and board elections after. Just to keep in the back of our heads.
-
404.city
MattJ, ralphm Thanks
-
nyco
or maybe "online shop" or "goodies"?
-
ralphm
nyco: I don't recall what we discussed on this last time, to be honest.
-
nyco
I proposed it as an agenda item
-
nyco
15:33
-
ralphm
Oh, I missed it
-
ralphm
:-(
-
nyco
no worries
-
Ge0rG
somebody should volunteer to evaluate some shop platforms and obtain Board permission to start a shop?
-
Ge0rG
Then also determine what to do with the money and how to transfer it into XSF accounts?
-
nyco
we are exploring alternatives now
-
Guus
Ge0rG: nyco already did / is.
-
nyco
here is a subset of the alternatives to cafepress that I have found: https://www.zazzle.com/ https://society6.com/ https://www.vistaprint.com/
-
ralphm
And we probably also want to have an ok on designs going up there
-
nyco
some more are dedicated to T-shirts (and a few more clothes) some others are made for authors, musicians, and filmmakers.
-
nyco
to me, this seems like the most readable: https://www.zazzle.com/sell/designers they say: Base Price + Your Royalty Percentage = Retail Price so the pricing+royalties seem clear to me that cafepress
-
nyco
what do you think? does this raise questions and doubts?
-
ralphm
I'd prefer we can control what items get logos on them. I seem to remember that with cafepress they'd be able to throw it on anything?
-
Guus
nyco: who owns copyright of the designs?
-
ralphm
I'd do this similarly to XEPs, t.b.h.
-
nyco
ralphm I don't remember that guus us?
-
MattJ
Update XEP-0001 to include coffee mugs?
-
Guus
nyco, yes I remember that we discussed that regarding cafepress. There at least was uncertainty. (I wouldn't mind much, by the way)
-
ralphm
MattJ: well, at least assign rights to the XSF, like in our IPR policy for XEPs (https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/ipr-policy).
-
404.city
I like the scheme of donations for TOR https://donate.torproject.org/pdr You donate, gifts are given to you
-
nyco
all right there seems to be too many interrogations, plus the payment, the bank, etc. I propose we forget it
-
Guus
ralphm: I'd like to make sure that the shop we end up choosing requires us to do something similar, and assign rights over to them.
-
ralphm
404.city: this is about selling items. We also have a sponsorship track, and accept donations.
-
ralphm
Guus: does or doesn't?
-
ralphm
Guus: I don't think they ask for copyright assignment, but rather certain licenses to use (for printing)
-
Guus
ralphm: I do not want the shop to own the rights to our designs. I don't have a strong opinion if the XSF or the original designer should have those rights.
-
Guus
ralphm, that would be fine by me.
-
ralphm
Well, having the XSF have rights makes things less complicated later on.
-
Guus
ralphm: probably true.
-
Guus
but we can probably sort that out after we start a quick proof of concept?
-
MattJ
Yeah, I don't see any red flags with Zazzle
-
ralphm
sure
-
MattJ
I'm wondering it it's more expensive (takes a larger cut than Cafepress)
-
nyco
that was just the pricing schema
-
nyco
it's 16:00
-
ralphm
RIght. Let's have a detailed look and come back on this next time.
-
ralphm
Curious about shipping rates, too.
-
ralphm
4. Date of Next
-
ralphm
+1W
-
ralphm
5. Close
-
ralphm
Thanks all!
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
MattJ
Thanks
-
nyco
+1 thx all
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
-
Ge0rG
404.city: now you can bring up your PR. Maybe Guus or jonasw can just merge it.
-
Ge0rG
Albeit I fear that adding more and more servers will lead that list to become very long.
-
Ge0rG
I'd love to have a central, well-maintained list of public servers with a high lever feature overview. But keeping that is real workโข
-
Ge0rG
And we have already https://conversations.im/compliance/
-
MattJ
Ge0rG, it's been done (and failed) many times
-
Guus
I'm unfamiliar with 404.city, and the github user that made the request is unknown to me. That, plus a suspicion that I at one time saw a lot of abuse from that domain makes me wonder if we should add that to our list.
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: yes, but it was great to just pull the XML from xmpp.net into my client's auto-completion dropdown values table
-
404.city
Ge0rG, 404.city is one of the largest servers. + 10 000 user for one year.
-
jonasw
MattJ, can you give a quick OK for https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/674/files ?
-
daniel
404.city, concurrent?
-
Ge0rG
how many of them are spam bots? ๐
-
jonasw
MattJ, nevermind
-
jonasw
Kevin is co-author and ACKed this on-list already
-
daniel
the website says 705 concurrent
-
404.city
+700 online users
-
Ge0rG
yax.im has 1066 clients connected right now.
-
Ge0rG
404.city: we can't simply add all servers with 500+ online users to that list.
-
Ge0rG
OTOH, we don't have very good criteria for which ones to add.
-
Zash
Something something neutrality
-
404.city
I am engaged in the promotion of XMPP by providing high-end services.
-
404.city
Some servers in this list do not even allow you to register, and the quality of the servers themselves is poor.
-
Ge0rG
Yes, the current list sucks.
-
Guus
criteria for that list on that page are focussed around how easy it is for a new user to sign up
-
404.city
Ge0rG, http://jabberworld.info/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%8E%D1%89%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2_Jabber
-
Guus
it's the 'getting started' page after all
-
Ge0rG
Guus: then we should remove all servers without IBR from that list
-
Guus
Ge0rG: all servers on the list had a web-based sign-up form at the time they were added to the list.
-
404.city
servers number of people more than 500 on the fingers to count.
-
Ge0rG
Guus: yax.im never did
-
404.city
https://jabber.at/account/register/
-
Guus
Ge0rG: my original list, that is ๐
-
Guus
I'm fine with having IBR too, by the way
-
Ge0rG
Guus: I wasn't aware that a web form is a prerequisite ;)
-
Guus
as long as it's easy for a novice user to register somehow
-
Guus
I never said it's a prerequisite. ๐
-
Ge0rG
Guus: it sounded like it.
-
Ge0rG
Guus: anyway, we need some objective criteria for that list.
-
Ge0rG
I agree with 404.city in that regard.
-
Guus
I said the prerequisite was that the link should offer clear instructions on how to sign up. Which is totally objective as I'll be the judge of what everyone is required to find clear instructions.
-
Guus
๐
-
Guus
Ge0rG: I'm a big fan of avoiding loooong discussions on what objective criteria should be.
-
Guus
if someone that I know wants to vouch for that server, I'm happy enough.
-
404.city
I suggest simply adding 404.city. If you want then you can delete. The server does not exist for long, but the increment is significant. I'm trying to promote XMPP, you could help me in this
-
Guus
404.city: I am grateful for you promoting XMPP - but my issue remain: I don't know who you are, I have no experience with your server, and I know no-one that does.
-
404.city
Guus, Can I help somehow in this matter?
-
Ge0rG
404.city: you could also ping daniel to add your server to https://status.conversations.im/
-
daniel
status.conversations.im/add
-
Guus
404.city: it wouldn't hurt for you to be fully anonymous - but again, I'm primarily looking for other people to tell me that they've used your server, and are happy with it.
-
edhelas
daniel that's a nice tool :)
-
Guus
404.city: in the mean time, I'm getting private messages to the contrary, by the way. It's suggested that you've been experiencing load-related issues. Is that true? If so, it does not seem smart to invite more people to your server.
-
edhelas
movim.eu added to the list :)
-
404.city
Guus, No, I have no problems.
-
404.city
Guus, The current state of the server can withstand 10,000 people online
-
Guus
Good.
-
404.city
The only problem is that nobody knows about the 404.city. He does not exist for 15 years, as Jabber.ru (7000 user oline) and XMPP.org (17000 user online). Other server the list Jwchat ~900user online. Do not forget that statistics can be shown in different ways. If I show all people per day, it will be more than 404.city= ~1500 people.If I show all the devices connected, then it will be even more. 700 people is a user without cheating.
-
edhelas
404.city you have a typo on your homepage
-
edhelas
" Convesations Legacy", for all the buttons
-
daniel
404.city: there are plenty of smaller / new servers that found their audience
-
daniel
Without being listed on xmpp.org
-
daniel
Just be patient
-
daniel
Also slow and steady growth is better for everyone
-
Ge0rG
you can promote your server by other means, to get more people on board :)
-
Ge0rG
we are trying to spread the load anyway. It's much worse to have 10 servers with 100k users each than 1000 servers with 1000 users each.
-
Ge0rG
because if one server dies, the impact is much bigger
-
edhelas
404.city ensure that the users that you have are also valid :) it's easy to claim thousands of active users and have plenty of bots and spammers in them
-
404.city
404 uses captcha for register
-
edhelas
I'm not sure if it's enough :)
-
404.city
Ge0rG, Why do not you promote your server yax.im in a different way?
-
Ge0rG
404.city: yax.im is there to make onboarding for users of yaxim easier.
-
Ge0rG
404.city: it's preselected in yaxim. I don't see an urgent need to become the largest XMPP server ever.
-
404.city
edhelas, In addition to captcha, there is a limit on sending subscriptions.
-
Guus
the point of that list is not to promote a server. The point of that list is to make it easier for new users to get started with XMPP.
-
404.city
Guus, The server 404.city is made to simplify this task as much as possible
-
Ge0rG
captchas make that harder ;)
-
404.city
Ge0rG, Spam is bad.
-
Ge0rG
I know that first-hand.
-
404.city
Ge0rG, To me, too, used to come spam from your server
-
Ge0rG
404.city: I'm sure you immediately reported it ;)
-
404.city
Ge0rG, No, I did not report it otherwise than in the conference of operators
-
Ge0rG
I'm monitoring the operators@ MUC, most of the time.
-
Ge0rG
But it's better to report directly. I'm taking those things seriously
-
404.city
edhelas, Thanks, I corrected the typo
-
edhelas
:)