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MattJ
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Should a MUC room require a password for affiliated JIDs?
MattJ
14:37:33
XEP-0045 is silent on the matter as far as I can tell
Ge0rG
14:38:20
I'd say yes, for consistency reasons.
Ge0rG
14:38:26
But then again... 🤔
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Kev
14:41:13
I think xep45 should be inconsistent, for consistency reasons.
jonasw
14:41:31
well played
MattJ
14:42:18
and another case I just hit... if a password is supplied but the room isn't password-protected...? :)
Ge0rG
14:42:23
is that due to process consistency, or due to consistency process?
jonasw
14:42:47
MattJ, uh... ignore?
Kev
14:42:51
Ge0rG: Not sure, but I think so.
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Ge0rG
14:42:53
MattJ: I'd say: if the joining user is admin/owner, the room should be updated to use the password, otherwise, the user join be rejected.
Zash
14:43:02
What if a password is given in the room creation stanza?
Ge0rG
14:43:05
</s>
Kev
14:43:25
MattJ: There's an argument for rejecting, I think.
Kev
14:43:35
If the security properties of the room have changed unexpectedly.
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MattJ
14:45:07
That's what Prosody currently does, it seems
Ge0rG
14:45:08
This is the kind of argument that we owe proxy JIDs to.
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MattJ
14:45:33
But it doesn't seem very useful (or requiring a password for owner/admin/member)
Ge0rG
14:46:37
Yeah, I can see how it might be useful to let the admins in without a password.
Kev
14:46:54
Or at least owners.
Ge0rG
14:47:37
if the owner wants to exclude admins, they should remove them from the affiliation list first?
Kev
14:47:52
Fair.
Ge0rG
14:49:25
maybe we should deprecate passwords for the sake of explicit affiliation management and namespace-bump?
MattJ
14:49:37
No thanks
MattJ
14:49:43
I just used passwords for something
Ge0rG
14:50:01
for whatthing?
jonasw
14:50:05
namespace-bump XEP-0045.
MattJ
14:50:11
jonasw, good idea
jonasw
14:50:15
can we tempban Ge0rG from all MUCs for this day? he’s trolling too much :)
MattJ
14:50:35
Ge0rG, a system where you invite one JID, but a different JID will join
MattJ
14:51:26
So I made a module that injects an invite token into the outgoing invite's password field, and validates the token provided as the password of the joining user
jonasw
14:51:34
uhhh
jonasw
14:51:37
I’m interested
jonasw
14:51:39
I want MUC invites
jonasw
14:51:42
to members only MUCs
Ge0rG
14:51:42
jonasw: I was just going to say that this isn't possible due to the federated nature of XMPP, but then I realized that there is a person in this MUC who could disable my access to yax.im and firewall me off.
jonasw
14:51:44
in onboarding
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Ge0rG
14:52:03
MattJ: that's... interesting.
Ge0rG
14:52:08
MattJ: but please use PARS instead.
Ge0rG
14:52:31
I mean, technically you could just have per-user "passwords" for a MUC, but it feels wrong.
Ge0rG
14:52:36
It's a hack.
Ge0rG
14:52:41
Actually, I like it.
jonasw
14:52:50
:D
jonasw
14:53:00
reminds me that I need to try my per-device password SASL authcid hack
MattJ
14:53:02
Ge0rG, PARS isn't suitable here, the invite is accepted by a machine
jonasw
14:53:17
MattJ, what’s wrong with that?
Ge0rG
14:53:41
MattJ: use the PARS wire format to pass tokens along.
MattJ
14:55:48
Ge0rG, so you mean use a <preauth> element instead of a <password> element?
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Ge0rG
14:57:18
MattJ: essentially yes, also you could use the URI parameter to carry such invitations via HTTPS
MattJ
14:57:57
Maybe in a future version
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MattJ
14:58:18
The nice things about passwords is that all the code I was dealing with already supported them
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MattJ
14:58:47
(except in reality each component had a bug, such as looking for or putting the password in the wrong place in the stanza)
MattJ
14:59:07
Turns out it's not a child of the <invite> element
Ge0rG
14:59:14
MattJ: you could change the server to use the pars token as the primary mechanism but to allow passing the token in the password field
Ge0rG
14:59:31
yeah, invitations with passwords are funny.
Ge0rG
14:59:37
nobody is checking corner cases
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Zash
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I'm trying to implement tombstones for MUC. How am I supposed to signal that?
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MattJ
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Isn't it in XEP-0045?
Zash
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Not really
Zash
21:03:10
Not that I could see at least.
MattJ
21:03:39
Oh, you mean signal that the service implements tombstones?
Zash
21:04:00
To signal that, when joining/creating a room, that it's already been destroyed.
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Zash
21:41:42
Hm, this seems to work with Gajim
Zash
21:41:52
Just needed to not reply with weird <messages>
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