XSF Discussion - 2018-07-17

where do clients get information like "inactive for N days" from?

is that XEP-0256?

I think daniel was consulting various resources.

a contact of mine claims I have been inactive for three days

it’s pidgin.

of course.

<query xmlns='jabber:iq:last' seconds='336148'/>

no idea why

I even reconnected in the meantime

https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-July/035250.html jonasw, When using a different element for the uploading status, there's one concern I have: it's not backwards-compatible with old clients.

lnj, why not?

old clients will simply ignore it

and I don’t think there’s a way to make old clients understand that you’re uploading without adding a new element...

Old clients would display at least "composing"

yes; you can achieve that by sending <uploading/> together with <composing/>.

like I suggested in the example

ups ..

haven't seen that

Then it's definitely the better alternative

yeah, it allows to use those states independently of the current XEP-0085 state

which is nice

(it can even be used without XEP-0085 altogether)

But will it be caught be csi? 🤔

beware though, I expect a whole lot of discussion when you propose this, since recently people discussed whether moving that type of stuff into (directed) presence isn’t more sensible ....

CSI and MAM need to be made aware of those new changes.

Currently, prosody's MAM will remove known-irrelevant elements from the message and check for emptiness in the end.

known-irrelevant is CSN

if only we had namespaced attributes

Ge0rG: right. So that will land in mam and not be caught by csi

one could tack csi:require-push="true" on message-child-level elements or something

Wouldn't it make sense to add a attribute (subelement) to indicate a message is not important and should be catched by CSI on the server

Also beware the jingle circlejerk

lnj: IM 2.0 will solve all our problems.

What's IM 2.0?

lnj, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html

There is still https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/im-ng.html

Isn't XEP-0409 only a replacement for carbons?

Ge0rG, eh.... that has been accepted as XEP-0409

lnj, it also affects MAM

Ah ok

it doesn't even *replace* carbons ;)

Ge0rG, does it not?

> A client activating IM-NG MUST NOT also activate Carbons.

sounds very replacy to me

Hmyes.

Ignore everything I say.

Would you accept Media Sharing Notifications (*MSN*) as XEP name? ;D

that sounds about right

that doesn't sound bad

The abbrieviation is also good ...

yupp

I like it

I object.

lnj, if you need any editorial help, let me know.

MSN is already defined as multi-session-nicks in MUCs

-1 on formal grounds.

Ge0rG, so? that makes it a perfect fit.

(seriously though, I missed that and I think another name would be good)

jonasw: it's bad enough that we are abusing acronyms from pop culture and from older IM systems. We can't start abusing our own acronyms.

Media Upload Notifications maybe?

MUN, wfm

MTN would be good to (Transfer)

jonasw: Currently everything's fine. My biggest problem are the quotes from plays of Shakespear.

:D

I'd take MTN

but it's not "transfer", it's "upload". If it were transfer, the receiver would be able to count bytes themselves.

Also, the HTTP library I'm using is incapable of providing a sane progress report.

But actually there should also be notifications for the recording of audio/video, so Transfer and Upload both don't fit completely

lnj, hm, right

Call it "File Sharing Notification" FSN?

That would be an option

"File" is old-school, but it nicely fits with CSN

that misses the recording stuff too

actually I'd like it to be `?SN`

It's OK. Names don't have to make perfect sense, just enough that you can guess the scope and where to find the specification.

Ge0rG, "Stuff Sharing Notification"

jonasw: Social Security Number. Bad thing.

:>

But yeah, it seems likely that you'd use these as a "Wait one, I'm looking for the file on disk" as well as a "Pics or it didn't happen, eh? I'll show you."

"hey, can you start sending SSNs to me, please?"

LOL

Ge0rG, I think LOL has been taken.

Dave Cridland: even in the context of XMPP.

FSN doesn't really miss the part of recording since I'd count the file creation to the process of "sharing"

whatever works

I wish nobody had invented the MSN name, which is technically correct but misleading anyway.

lnj, And also, as I say, it doesn't matter very much. Any name is better than no name.

Ok :D

.oO(d***pic sharing notification) (probably only funny for those in conversations@)

"Data Sharing Notification" would be a great fit for your idea, jonasw

"BSN". Bike-Shedding Notification.

Blob Sharing Notification

NCSN - Non Chat State Notification?

hah

NTMSNA

NTMSNI

Not The MSN Initialism.

WCTOABA - We Couldn't Think Of A Better Acronym

Dave Cridland: I'd like to have that for CSI instead.

But anyway, Dickpic Sharing Notification works fine for me.

Especially if its extensible enough to actually give me fair warning.

lol

How extensible does it need to be?

Kev, Depends on how warm it is, surely?

Now before anybody complains. I inherited the name "yet another xmpp instant messenger" together with the rotten code base.

<uploading type='image' rating='adult' progress='half-up'/>?

Hah, these guys...!

jonasw: we could wrap those into spoilers for adult content.

Ge0rG, smart

jonasw, Now I probably also need a upload-cancelled status since the uploading status is independant of the chat states. (I can't only use <paused/>)

lnj, indeed