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jonasw
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where do clients get information like "inactive for N days" from?
jonasw
13:23:36
is that XEP-0256?
Ge0rG
13:23:46
I think daniel was consulting various resources.
jonasw
13:24:04
a contact of mine claims I have been inactive for three days
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jonasw
13:26:27
it’s pidgin.
jonasw
13:26:29
of course.
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jonasw
13:26:59
<query xmlns='jabber:iq:last' seconds='336148'/>
jonasw
13:27:12
no idea why
jonasw
13:27:29
I even reconnected in the meantime
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lnj
14:15:44
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-July/035250.html
jonasw, When using a different element for the uploading status, there's one concern I have: it's not backwards-compatible with old clients.
jonasw
14:16:13
lnj, why not?
jonasw
14:16:18
old clients will simply ignore it
jonasw
14:16:39
and I don’t think there’s a way to make old clients understand that you’re uploading without adding a new element...
lnj
14:16:57
Old clients would display at least "composing"
jonasw
14:17:16
yes; you can achieve that by sending <uploading/> together with <composing/>.
jonasw
14:17:27
like I suggested in the example
lnj
14:17:43
ups ..
lnj
14:17:50
haven't seen that
lnj
14:18:14
Then it's definitely the better alternative
jonasw
14:18:34
yeah, it allows to use those states independently of the current XEP-0085 state
jonasw
14:18:37
which is nice
jonasw
14:18:49
(it can even be used without XEP-0085 altogether)
daniel
14:19:05
But will it be caught be csi? 🤔
jonasw
14:19:12
beware though, I expect a whole lot of discussion when you propose this, since recently people discussed whether moving that type of stuff into (directed) presence isn’t more sensible ....
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Ge0rG
14:20:29
CSI and MAM need to be made aware of those new changes.
Ge0rG
14:20:48
Currently, prosody's MAM will remove known-irrelevant elements from the message and check for emptiness in the end.
Ge0rG
14:20:52
known-irrelevant is CSN
jonasw
14:21:20
if only we had namespaced attributes
daniel
14:21:36
Ge0rG: right. So that will land in mam and not be caught by csi
jonasw
14:21:36
one could tack csi:require-push="true" on message-child-level elements or something
lnj
14:21:42
Wouldn't it make sense to add a attribute (subelement) to indicate a message is not important and should be catched by CSI on the server
daniel
14:22:14
Also beware the jingle circlejerk
Ge0rG
14:22:19
lnj: IM 2.0 will solve all our problems.
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lnj
14:22:37
What's IM 2.0?
jonasw
14:22:54
lnj, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html
Ge0rG
14:23:15
There is still https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/im-ng.html
lnj
14:23:26
Isn't XEP-0409 only a replacement for carbons?
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jonasw
14:23:39
Ge0rG, eh.... that has been accepted as XEP-0409
jonasw
14:23:47
lnj, it also affects MAM
lnj
14:23:51
Ah ok
Ge0rG
14:24:02
it doesn't even *replace* carbons ;)
jonasw
14:24:11
Ge0rG, does it not?
jonasw
14:24:44
> A client activating IM-NG MUST NOT also activate Carbons.
jonasw
14:24:49
sounds very replacy to me
Ge0rG
14:25:16
Hmyes.
Ge0rG
14:25:26
Ignore everything I say.
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lnj
14:30:23
Would you accept Media Sharing Notifications (*MSN*) as XEP name? ;D
jonasw
14:30:54
that sounds about right
Ge0rG
14:30:55
that doesn't sound bad
lnj
14:31:25
The abbrieviation is also good ...
jonasw
14:31:33
yupp
jonasw
14:31:35
I like it
Ge0rG
14:31:39
I object.
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jonasw
14:31:49
lnj, if you need any editorial help, let me know.
Ge0rG
14:31:49
MSN is already defined as multi-session-nicks in MUCs
Ge0rG
14:31:57
-1 on formal grounds.
jonasw
14:31:57
Ge0rG, so? that makes it a perfect fit.
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jonasw
14:32:37
(seriously though, I missed that and I think another name would be good)
Ge0rG
14:32:53
jonasw: it's bad enough that we are abusing acronyms from pop culture and from older IM systems. We can't start abusing our own acronyms.
Ge0rG
14:33:10
Media Upload Notifications maybe?
jonasw
14:33:15
MUN, wfm
jonasw
14:33:23
MTN would be good to (Transfer)
lnj
14:33:43
jonasw: Currently everything's fine. My biggest problem are the quotes from plays of Shakespear.
lnj
14:33:57
:D
lnj
14:34:18
I'd take MTN
Ge0rG
14:34:51
but it's not "transfer", it's "upload". If it were transfer, the receiver would be able to count bytes themselves.
Ge0rG
14:35:05
Also, the HTTP library I'm using is incapable of providing a sane progress report.
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lnj
14:35:39
But actually there should also be notifications for the recording of audio/video, so Transfer and Upload both don't fit completely
jonasw
14:35:47
lnj, hm, right
Ge0rG
14:36:11
Call it "File Sharing Notification" FSN?
lnj
14:36:22
That would be an option
Ge0rG
14:36:23
"File" is old-school, but it nicely fits with CSN
jonasw
14:36:23
that misses the recording stuff too
Ge0rG
14:36:43
actually I'd like it to be `?SN`
Dave Cridland
14:36:55
It's OK. Names don't have to make perfect sense, just enough that you can guess the scope and where to find the specification.
jonasw
14:37:32
Ge0rG, "Stuff Sharing Notification"
Ge0rG
14:37:42
jonasw: Social Security Number. Bad thing.
jonasw
14:37:48
:>
Dave Cridland
14:37:51
But yeah, it seems likely that you'd use these as a "Wait one, I'm looking for the file on disk" as well as a "Pics or it didn't happen, eh? I'll show you."
jonasw
14:37:57
"hey, can you start sending SSNs to me, please?"
Ge0rG
14:38:05
LOL
Dave Cridland
14:38:13
Ge0rG, I think LOL has been taken.
Ge0rG
14:38:33
Dave Cridland: even in the context of XMPP.
lnj
14:38:35
FSN doesn't really miss the part of recording since I'd count the file creation to the process of "sharing"
jonasw
14:38:45
whatever works
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Ge0rG
14:39:10
I wish nobody had invented the MSN name, which is technically correct but misleading anyway.
Dave Cridland
14:39:14
lnj, And also, as I say, it doesn't matter very much. Any name is better than no name.
lnj
14:39:29
Ok :D
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jonasw
14:40:07
.oO(d***pic sharing notification) (probably only funny for those in conversations@)
Ge0rG
14:40:44
"Data Sharing Notification" would be a great fit for your idea, jonasw
Ge0rG
14:41:08
"BSN". Bike-Shedding Notification.
jonasw
14:41:15
Blob Sharing Notification
Dave Cridland
14:41:42
NCSN - Non Chat State Notification?
jonasw
14:41:48
hah
Kev
14:42:20
NTMSNA
Kev
14:42:27
NTMSNI
Kev
14:42:33
Not The MSN Initialism.
Dave Cridland
14:43:56
WCTOABA - We Couldn't Think Of A Better Acronym
Ge0rG
14:44:14
Dave Cridland: I'd like to have that for CSI instead.
Dave Cridland
14:44:20
But anyway, Dickpic Sharing Notification works fine for me.
Dave Cridland
14:44:36
Especially if its extensible enough to actually give me fair warning.
jonasw
14:44:46
lol
Kev
14:44:47
How extensible does it need to be?
Dave Cridland
14:44:57
Kev, Depends on how warm it is, surely?
Ge0rG
14:45:00
Now before anybody complains. I inherited the name "yet another xmpp instant messenger" together with the rotten code base.
jonasw
14:45:04
<uploading type='image' rating='adult' progress='half-up'/>?
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Seve/SouL
14:45:38
Hah, these guys...!
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Ge0rG
14:49:22
jonasw: we could wrap those into spoilers for adult content.
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jonasw
14:49:33
Ge0rG, smart
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lnj
15:35:16
jonasw, Now I probably also need a upload-cancelled status since the uploading status is independant of the chat states. (I can't only use <paused/>)
jonasw
15:36:15
lnj, indeed
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